Why Floyd shouldn't fight Manny in the future !!

First topic message reminder :

Fact is Floyd vs Manny is an 80-20 fight...........Floyd should win but Manny's freak-once-in-a-lifetime power does mean that should he get lucky Floyd's legacy goes out of the window!!

Manny is the only one who can HURT Floyd's legacy.............Should Bradley or Khan beat Floyd well the believable excuse is Fathertime has caught up to Money.......He stays top 10 in most lists !!.....and rightly so.

However should Manny beat Floyd........Then the critics will say that's why he avoided Manny. that's why he's not Top 10 and Manny would always have beaten him........

Also Floyd doesn't get any credit for beating Manny..............He left it till Manny was past it blah bah blah..........

Why give the Filipino and is a**hole promoter a ticket back in the game too ??........

Floyd should fight his fights and get out with legacy assured..............

No point in giving a guy a shot at the lottery and a top 10 place himself..he doesn't deserve !!......He doesn't need the "outed" by JMM, Manny anymore..

Unlike you to go crying to the mods...

Why is Joe Louis in your top 10 Haz........??

Might as well have Jeffries higher than Mayweather he beat better fighters than Louis

DAVE667 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Actually, scratch that, forgot the Diaz ko in his one LW venture.

To be fair, he beat up Diaz and the lad dropped from exhaustion and an accumulation of shots rather than one concussive blow. If Manny had KO'd the super tough Margarito or Mosley with one shot, I'm sure the term "freakish power" would be apt but, it isn't in Manny's case.

Pacquiao lamped Diaz to be fair. He also floored Mosley with one punch, ragged Cotto all over, blinded Margarito, retired Hatton and crippled Clottey. He has unusual power.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Unlike you to go crying to the mods...

watch this guy's output..

In all fairness to Truss, whilst I don’t agree with much of what he says about Floyd there is a nub of truth to some of what he says. It appears that the bulk of the criticism of Floyd is that he has not always took on the best available challengers, a view I don’t necessarily disagree with. However where I do find things a little odd is that people such as Bernstein will level this criticism at him but then have Johnson in their top ten.

Johnson’s title reign is about as far removed from taking on your best challengers as you could ever hope to see. Widely accepted that during Jack’s reign the best three other heavyweights in the world were Langford, McVea and Jeannette. During his reign Johnson fought these guys a sum total of zero times, he did however find time to accommodate a middleweight Ketchel, Fireman Jim Flynn and the ordinary Battling Jim Johnson, all the while whilst Langford and the others were reduced to fighting each other in a round robin.

Have no issue with people downgrading Floyd on the back of not taking on the best available challengers but to do this whilst ignoring the trait in others does smack of hypocrisy.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Actually, scratch that, forgot the Diaz ko in his one LW venture.

To be fair, he beat up Diaz and the lad dropped from exhaustion and an accumulation of shots rather than one concussive blow. If Manny had KO'd the super tough Margarito or Mosley with one shot, I'm sure the term "freakish power" would be apt but, it isn't in Manny's case.

You're above your paygrade......You've never heard of Wilfredo Gomez types.......So you're a waste of time....

And you're out of your depth here son...Floyd needs to take on Manny, put the issue to bed and move on. He wins at a canter so why the fuss? If Mosley can't stop Floyd, Manny ain't doing it either.

You fret too much for your boy and the fact you're resorting to insults amply demonstrates the fact you know you've called this one wrong and are too stubborn to admit it.

Anyway, why should you give two shiny sh!tes about Floyd's legacy anyway. If he WAS to lose to Manny, are you saying you'd stop being in love with him? Doesn't downplay what he's done before and in fact, sounds a tad pathetic to be honest.

hazharrison wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Actually, scratch that, forgot the Diaz ko in his one LW venture.

To be fair, he beat up Diaz and the lad dropped from exhaustion and an accumulation of shots rather than one concussive blow. If Manny had KO'd the super tough Margarito or Mosley with one shot, I'm sure the term "freakish power" would be apt but, it isn't in Manny's case.

Pacquiao lamped Diaz to be fair. He also floored Mosley with one punch, ragged Cotto all over, blinded Margarito, retired Hatton and crippled Clottey. He has unusual power.

I forgot those, I take it all back!!!!!!!

I wasn't trying to be funny kid.......But when you've only ever heard of ten fighters...It's a bit rich to be commenting on Manny's power and it's freakishness..

Rowley wrote:In all fairness to Truss, whilst I don’t agree with much of what he says about Floyd there is a nub of truth to some of what he says. It appears that the bulk of the criticism of Floyd is that he has not always took on the best available challengers, a view I don’t necessarily disagree with. However where I do find things a little odd is that people such as Bernstein will level this criticism at him but then have Johnson in their top ten.

Johnson’s title reign is about as far removed from taking on your best challengers as you could ever hope to see. Widely accepted that during Jack’s reign the best three other heavyweights in the world were Langford, McVea and Jeannette. During his reign Johnson fought these guys a sum total of zero times, he did however find time to accommodate a middleweight Ketchel, Fireman Jim Flynn and the ordinary Battling Jim Johnson, all the while whilst Langford and the others were reduced to fighting each other in a round robin.

Have no issue with people downgrading Floyd on the back of not taking on the best available challengers but to do this whilst ignoring the trait in others does smack of hypocrisy.

You can only question his opposition in terms of one fight Manny........and he wasn't 100% to blame for that..........

Hating types will hold Manny against him............Fairminded types like me will judge him on his top 5 record.......

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why is Joe Louis in your top 10 Haz........??

Might as well have Jeffries higher than Mayweather he beat better fighters than Louis

Louis is one of the greatest fighters who ever lived. Longest heavyweight reign (something you place much stock in yourself surely), fabulous technician, one of the sport's hardest ever punchers, one of the greatest victories in history (Schmeling rematch).

Most experts place him in the top ten (obviously that doesn't hold as much weight as board concensus -- I believe HBO are looking to use board concensus in any future debate).

Talking of hypocrisy - How about "Manny lost 3-1, 4-0, 8-0" to Marquez while Mayweather beat Castillo 2-0, end of? No questioning the cards there?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I wasn't trying to be funny kid.......But when you've only ever heard of ten fighters...It's a bit rich to be commenting on Manny's power and it's freakishness..

And I'm not trying to be rude but when you talk b*llocks and it's pointed out to you by people, try considering the fact that you may indeed be talking b*llocks rather than it being an anti-Floyd agenda and the board just being out to get you.

PS, if you include Bradley Pryce (and why wouldn't you) I've heard of 11 fighters.

I reward Manny with the JMM victories.......It's why he's top 20 in my book......

But I said the Manny-JMM fights showed JMM's superiority...........

Mayweather beat Castillo more convincingly than Manny beat JMM..

You're talking crap.

I will reiterate that the posters giving me crap are the five or so out of the thirty five that had Mayweather out of the top ten.....

Shows If you don't like Floyd..........You really don't like him..........

Jealousy perhaps.........

You sometimes reward Manny with Marquez victories, normally dependent whether it serves a purpose for your argument. I could link a few examples showing you your differing stages on the matter.

I have nothing against Floyd. Would I like to have more money than a small nation? sure. Am I bothered about the fact that I don't? No, even as a kid I never dreamt of being a Quintillionaire, now I wanna travel the world, and finish my travels through Africa. My opinion of Floyd has nothing to do with jealousy.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I will reiterate that the posters giving me crap are the five or so out of the thirty five that had Mayweather out of the top ten.....

Shows If you don't like Floyd..........You really don't like him..........

Jealousy perhaps.........

But when you love him............ 

Quintillionaire...I like it.

Is a squintillion more or less than a squagillion?

Not the faintest clue, Dave!

Don't suppose I'd cry too hard if it was less though...still sounds like it would keep me in midget gems!

When should he fight him then? In the past?

Time to bump start the old Delorean.

I've always rewarded Manny with victories....

I thought Witherspoon beat Holmes..........

Never said they should have won.......Louis lost to Walcott but I still regard it as one of his legacy wins..

I thought Mayweather won the first fight with Casty

Holmes was the master ducker...Go pick on him........Why give him a free ride.

A lot of Brits hate success.......when someone else accomplishes it......

Top 10 nailed down.

STC wrote:When should he fight him then? In the past?

 

These facts are self evident.......

He's the first fighter in history to be at the top of his sport for 16 years without losing........

He's the first fighter in history to beat 5 current top 10 p4pers.......

One of a select few to win titles from 130-154.......

He is a true original.........

Then again according to some he didn't beat greats like Braddock.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

STC wrote:When should he fight him then? In the past?

 

 

And he's really pretty too, don't forget that Truss.

I still don't get the original post, regardless of where people place floyd be that top 5/10/100 it doesn't matter.

saying floyd should not fight manny because there's a chance he beats him is ridiculous. I watch boxing because i want to see those fights if I wanted to see someone fight people who posed no threat id watch reruns of Klitchko Mormeck instead.

Can we keep watching Lumbering's output......

Be able to read 50 of his posts in less than a minute I reckon..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:These facts are self evident.......

He's the first fighter in history to be at the top of his sport for 16 years without losing........

He's the first fighter in history to beat 5 current top 10 p4pers.......

One of a select few to win titles from 130-154.......

He is a true original.........

Then again according to some he didn't beat greats like Braddock.

1. He's been a pro 17 years (was he at "the top" after one year -- after beating Felipe Garcia?).

2. Utter tosh. Do you honestly believe Robinson or Ali didn't beat fighters that were as well regarded in their time as Hatton and an ageing De la Hoya?

3. Titles have been considerably devalued over recent years. Fighters don't win world title shots -- their promoters buy them for them.

4. What has that got to do with the price of cheese? Isn't he just a better schooled version of Rog' and Sr.?

He is a great fighter -- the best of this era but his lack of risk-taking precludes him any top ten list.

Original post suggests that Manny is the only legacy spoiling fight for floyd.......

Anybody else beats him........It's a fathertime beating....

Manny beats him........"That's why he avoided him etc"..Manny was always better...etc.

"Baer was a very good win"........and that was after Braddock !!

"Mayweather hasn't beaten anybody"..

Leave it out Haz.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:"Baer was a very good win"........and that was after Braddock !!

"Mayweather hasn't beaten anybody"..

Leave it out Haz.

Never said that second quote.

It's like me saying:

"Mayweather has a backside like two boiled eggs in a hanky"

Leave it out Truss.

Does manny have freakish power? I don't think he has the single one punch KO power at welterweight to trouble floyd. Unless floyd has a fit of madness and decides to dive at his fist ala hatton. He certainly hit both oscar and Margery enough times flush, freakish speed yes. Power yes, but one punch ko power, I'm not so sure.
It's a great fight for floyd that sells (when manny looks good against rios) but that's never happening, because of blah blah blah...

I don't think Pacquiao is as shot as some people think and I think and he is going to destroy Rios.

Its not as big a fight as it was in 2010, but its still a great fight.

After the first year of the fight not being made you knew it never would.

There are other issues, but money alone will prevent the fight ever happening.  Floyd wouldn't accept 50/50 when Manny's star power was at its peak so Floyd (rightly or wrongly) wouldn't accept less than 75/25 in his favour I imagine.

I would still like the fight to happen as a win over him will be better than anyone he else between 140-154ibs. Like many I don't think Manny at his best but certainly not shot. The Rios fight is tailor made for him to look sensational and should walk through him, albeit because of Rios's chin it may take a few rounds.

I would like Floyd to drop down to 140ibs rather than go up.

jimdig wrote:Does manny have freakish power? I don't think he has the single one punch KO power at welterweight to trouble floyd. Unless floyd has a fit of madness and decides to dive at his fist ala hatton. He certainly hit both oscar and Margery enough times flush, freakish speed yes. Power yes, but one punch ko power, I'm not so sure.
It's a great fight for floyd that sells (when manny looks good against rios) but that's never happening, because of blah blah blah...

Careful jim, I've already been castgated by TRUSSNUTS for saying almost the exact same thing.

Expect a strongly worded PM from the lad no doubt accompanied by a poorly photoshopped picture of Floyd kissing a large sequinned thong wearing blancmange and the captions "BFF fo' sho' mofo!"

jimdig wrote:Does manny have freakish power? I don't think he has the single one punch KO power at welterweight to trouble floyd. Unless floyd has a fit of madness and decides to dive at his fist ala hatton. He certainly hit both oscar and Margery enough times flush, freakish speed yes. Power yes, but one punch ko power, I'm not so sure.
It's a great fight for floyd that sells (when manny looks good against rios) but that's never happening, because of blah blah blah...

Apparently knocking out Hatton (and only Hatton) in your only ko above 135lbs is freakish once in a generation power.

Equally freakish and one generational is being able to start boxing as a 108 teenager and be effective/win titles up to LMW.

Which is kinda awkward because not only did Manny accomplish these feats, BUT SO DID FLOYD!!!!!

Mayweather would beat Manny hands down via a points win (UD). Manny would be a tough fight for everyone to be honest (obviously within hid weights), but cant see him really troubling Floyd if at all.

The bigger question though is whether Manny actually deserves a shot at hin with his recent losses to Bradley (all be it a disputed one) and of course the devastating knockout to JMM. He comes back end of this month against a hand picked fighter (a not so very good one) to make him look good (which was also confirmed by his Promoter who said he avoided Alvarado because he can box AND has power).

If he does beat Rios, id presume he would need to take out a Welterweight champion like Broner or someone in order for him to have leverage in negotiations.

Saying that, Khan has been touted as an opponent for Floyd and im not sure why entirely. Not deserving at all.

So, with that said, Floyd should just fight him next year, get loads of money, retire. Nothing left to prove apart from he goes undefeated as one of the greatest fighters to have blessed the sport. IMO.

Tbh, I don't think anyone cares whether Manny 'deserves' a Mayweather shot now.

He did deserve it back when Floyd took a convenient period of retirement.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Mayweather would beat Manny hands down via a points win (UD). Manny would be a tough fight for everyone to be honest (obviously within hid weights), but cant see him really troubling Floyd if at all.

The bigger question though is whether Manny actually deserves a shot at hin with his recent losses to Bradley (all be it a disputed one) and of course the devastating knockout to JMM. He comes back end of this month against a hand picked fighter (a not so very good one) to make him look good (which was also confirmed by his Promoter who said he avoided Alvarado because he can box AND has power).

If he does beat Rios, id presume he would need to take out a Welterweight champion like Broner or someone in order for him to have leverage in negotiations.

Saying that, Khan has been touted as an opponent for Floyd and im not sure why entirely. Not deserving at all.

So, with that said, Floyd should just fight him next year, get loads of money, retire. Nothing left to prove apart from he goes undefeated as one of the greatest fighters to have blessed the sport. IMO.

Interesting points Mate..

TopHat24/7 wrote:Tbh, I don't think anyone cares whether Manny 'deserves' a Mayweather shot now.  

He did deserve it back when Floyd took a convenient period of retirement.

This.

He was offered a fight...Wouldn't take the percentage.........

Somehow fighting a bigger name American in America with more talent...........

was worth 50/50

The Pooch has got nothing Mayweather cant handle. Easy payday for Floyd. Wont happen though. Panny seems more interested in joining the Vitali Klitschko school of political domination in third world countries

Give the army a bung in filipino land and you are half way there..

"Fact is Floyd v Manny is an 80-20 fight". Cracking opener.

Love it. Looks like TRUSSMAN couldnt make the toilet again. Or he has misposted his Mayweather fan mail.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Tbh, I don't think anyone cares whether Manny 'deserves' a Mayweather shot now.  

He did deserve it back when Floyd took a convenient period of retirement.

He probably "deserves" it as much as Amir Khan deserves his shot.

What's the betting Amir's injuries during this moinor car crash disrupt his training to such a degree that the fight with Floyd can't be made and Manny has to step in?

Think you are being a little harsh on Manny here Truss. Hes a more worthy opponent than Guerrero or Cotto ever were, even now.

I know its going to be harder than ever to secure a fight between them that satisfies both parties financial needs. Flloyd is now the outright high earning star who can pick and chose his opponents, who will be happy to take whatever percentage they are given and still be a career best payday. And on the other hand Manny still has a big following and can earn more fighting guys like Rios than he would by taking a low percentage from Flloyd. The numbers never quite added up how people imagined they did, hence why the fight never happened.

But that doesn't mean to say it wouldn't be a decent fight. My money would be firmly on Mayweather, but im certain Manny gives it a more exciting push than Alvarez or Guerrero did. As a fan of Flloyds, its still a good fight to watch.

If by some miracle they did get the numbers right and got the fight contract sorted, to say Flloyd shouldn't take it because theres a chance Manny would win is a bit cowardly. There was a chance Cotto could have beaten him and become the sports biggest star. Flloyd sticks his legacy on the line everytime he fights, whether you like it or not. Flloyd has been built up to be unbeatable and whether his fans were argueing in 20 years time that Khan got lucky against an old Mayweather or whether Manny did should be irrelevant.

Its a decent fight, even though its not half the fight it was. Flloyd fights for money and fame, and if theres still a chance Manny and him can come to an arrangement that suits Flloyd he should keep that avenue open. However unlikely it is

I think Manny is a worthy opponent...Lance....and you make some good points as ever....

Think it's an all-lose fight for Floyd though......

Anyway thanks for the replies........and take it easy..

If Floyd were to beat Manny we'd have superfans like yourself claiming he was better than Robinson.

It's win-win for Floyd. He gets a faded version of the man he avoided when both were closer to their peaks for similar money and has his balls licked afterwards for it.

and...if Floyd loses we get further claims that Manny's chemist is on a par with Breaking Bad's Walter White and has come up with a drug so great even Manny doesn't know he's taking it.

TRUSS goes into meltdown, quits the boards again and everyone's a winner.

Have to echo what others have said here, Truss - seems to me that, essentially, you're saying that Floyd shouldn't fight Manny because there's a chance he might lose.

I appreciate that, when it comes to Mayweather, you've mastered the art of spin better than Warne and Murali combined, but even you'll have a hard time convincing me that this kind of theory or attitude somehow befits a supposed all-time top five pound for pound great, beefster, particularly when he's still meant to be the reigning pound for pound king right now!

Floyd's not in his absolute prime for me anymore, but he's still operating at 90% or so of it, so if that first defeat ever does come, surely it's better for him and easier to explain if it were to come against a great (if similarly a little faded) fighter in Pacquiao, rather than someone like Khan or Alexander, who seem to have found their level somewhere inbetween 'good' and 'outstanding', no? Can't see how a loss (if it came right now) against Pacquiao would be more harmful to Mayweather's legacy than a defeat to Khan, personally.

As for certain quarters saying things like, "That's why Floyd ducked Manny" or "Pacquiao would always have beaten Floyd" if, somehow, Pacquiao was to pull the upset - well, what do you expect!? I'm pretty sure that, if Mayweather were to put a beating on Pacquiao, there'd likewise be a shed load of people saying "Told you so, Mayweather's just on a different level to Manny and always was, the outcome would have been the same in 2010."

I mean come on, Truss - you'll happily inform us that the likes of Mike Spinks, Camacho, Marquez etc have all hypothetically picked Floyd if the fight ever happens, so you can't be too jarred by Pacquiao fans tooting their horn if he went one better and actually won the fight in real life!

You say there's "no point" in giving Manny a shot at big-time glory by beating Floyd. So what would be the point of giving that same shot to a Khan, an Alexander, a Garcia etc? What's the point of Floyd fighting any half-decent operator if the possibility of him losing, no matter how small, is somehow an inconvenience to him or you?

Anyway, that's another few minutes of my life wasted over what has become the most famous and talked-about fight which won't actually ever happen.