Ongoing NFL Discussion Thread IV

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sun 03 Nov 2013, 7:36 pm

First topic message reminder :

I still dream of Sudfeld and Gronk over the middle Dave Sad

by GSC Mon 25 Nov 2013, 9:10 pm

I can't get over that gif

by Number-25 Mon 25 Nov 2013, 9:14 pm

GSC wrote:Talent bowl tonight between RG3 and Kapernick

I puke every time I think about how bad the Redskins have been this season. Tonight's inevitable humiliation on prime time will be a new low. I'm well used to sitting in November looking forward to the end of the season but this is the worst I can remember. I think it's the media dissection of every snap RG3 takes and every syllable of every word he says that is just making it extra unbearable.

by BamBam Mon 25 Nov 2013, 9:20 pm

GSC wrote:Talent bowl tonight between RG3 and Kapernick

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon 25 Nov 2013, 9:31 pm

Will Kaepernick be able to go through his reads beyond one receiver tonight?
Will RG3 make bad plays that aren't ever allowed to be spoken of again?
These are questions that must be answered...

by NYJ Mon 25 Nov 2013, 10:12 pm

Frank Gore is going to clean house tonight. 150 yards and 2 TD's.

by mikeygnfl Mon 25 Nov 2013, 10:53 pm

Matt Flynn looks a different player in Green Bay. The Titans are now 6th seeds in the AFC though there is about six teams tying on 5-6.

Peyton Manning's stats from the cold last night 19/36, 150 yards, 52.8 % 2 TDs 1 INT 70.4 Passer Rating. It is going to be awfully cold in Denver, Boston, New York come the New Year.

Tom Brady is 23-5 in games played in freezing temperatures since 2003. Peyton Manning is only 1-6

by GSC Mon 25 Nov 2013, 11:58 pm

Brandon Browner is the latest Seahawk to be banned for PEDs, 8 games.

by GSC Tue 26 Nov 2013, 8:24 am

RG3 getting kicked in the nuts probably sums up Mike Shanahans feelings.

Time for Shanahan to go. The Redskins are worse than they were under Zorn

by skins4ever Tue 26 Nov 2013, 3:34 pm

I keep saying, this year is make the best of what we've got. Only question next year is whether RGIII matures into an NFL QB and stops acting like none of its his fault. I don't blame Shanny yet, given what they have had to work with. I want to see what improvements we can make at WR and on the D next year before I give up on him. However, I am ready to kick 'Hasbin' to the kerb and I'm not too keen on Shanny junior either. Last night showed me that we're too ready to stick with damaged goods on D (Wilson was horrendous) while we have viable rookies riding the pine. Seasons over guys, let the young guys show what they can bring next year.

On O I'd even say bench RGIII if that wasn't going to cause even more trouble. Cousins needs to be in the shop window if RGIII is the future, or getting playing time to see if he can keep RGIII on the bench. Either way, I say play the guy.

by Number-25 Tue 26 Nov 2013, 4:18 pm

Nah, Griffin is the guy they've invested heavily in - he only develops and improves if he plays. He suffered badly from losing the offseason this year. You can't diminish what he did last year when he showed he can be a very accurate passer with a strong arm who makes good decisions. Same way, you can't understate how much he has struggled this year but there are mitigating factors - the lost offseason, bad WRs outside of Garçon and a bad O-Line. You ride the rough with the smooth with young QBs and he'll learn nothing by sitting on the bench.

Snyder has a huge decision to make this Winter - sack Shanahan or extend him. Big changes are needed, especially on defense. Do you let a lame duck HC make those big changes that will make or break the future of the franchise? Cos that's what Shanahan will be if you don't extend his contract. What players are going to want to sign for a team that has a HC on a one year contract? Well, what GOOD players are going to want to? Three double digit loss seasons out of 4 does not look good when asking your boss for a contract extension.

I don't agree we're worse than we were under Zorn. You must not have seen us play much that last season of his GSC. We're about the same to be honest - better on offense, worse on defense, much the same on special teams.

Is it time for Shanahan to be fired? I dunno. Would I extend his contract? I dunno. I do know the Redskins make puke just now though.

by Skyforger Tue 26 Nov 2013, 6:35 pm

They were making the point on ESPN at lunchtime that RG III didn't get the offseason to work with the team as was rehabbing the injury.

A healthy offseason with some good, new additions may make a huge difference.

by GSC Tue 26 Nov 2013, 6:35 pm

The only thing saving Shanahan is the two rings with Elway. Zorn got kicked to the curb was less.

Since then he's been very mediocre.

by Number-25 Tue 26 Nov 2013, 8:55 pm

GSC wrote:The only thing saving Shanahan is the two rings with Elway. Zorn got kicked to the curb was less.

Since then he's been very mediocre.

See, the Elway thing always gets brought up and it's garbage. How many rings did Elway win without Shanahan? Yeah, that's right, none. So it works both ways. The haters don't like to tell you that though.

Shouldn't underestimate the size of the job Shanahan took on when he came to Washington though. We were an organisational shambles that was rotten to the core. The most dysfunctional franchise in the league. We're in better shape off the field now than we were then but aren't as far along the road on the field as anyone would have hoped.

Can't wait for this season to end.

by Number-25 Tue 26 Nov 2013, 9:03 pm

One thing I'm amazed I haven't read yet is the fact there's a very real possibility that the Rams will end up getting the number 1 pick in next year's draft as the final instalment of the RG3 deal. With all the crap written about him this season by an obsessed media, I'm amazed no-one has mentioned that.

That would be the final and possibly biggest insult of the least enjoyable season I can remember for a long time.

by GSC Tue 26 Nov 2013, 11:34 pm

Elway went to 3 SBs without Shanahan

Shanahan has 1 playoff win in 14 years since Elway retired. Mediocrity.

by Number-25 Wed 27 Nov 2013, 9:25 am

Well, you've got one viewpoint GSC and I've got another. I think he was pretty good after the second Superbowl win in Denver - they only had one losing season and made the playoffs a bunch of times including off the back of a 13-3 season. Yeah, he's not been amazing but he was pretty good until eventually, as inevitably happens in the end, he stayed a little too long.

As for his time in Washington, yeah it's not been great but everyone knows how big a mess he inherited and that a total organizational rebuild was needed. We're still paying for the mistakes of the last regime with the salary cap penalty. The more I think about it, I would extend him a couple of years this Winter. The players still seem to be behind him. If they weren't then I'd think differently. I don't expect next season to be a whole lot better than this one though - too many areas need fixing - everywhere except QB, RB and TE basically.... and the QB has a lot of work to do.

by GSC Wed 27 Nov 2013, 12:29 pm

The thing is, Shanahans had 4 years. His regime shouldn't be needing to fix all those holes by now.

by Number-25 Wed 27 Nov 2013, 12:45 pm

First 2 years spent gutting the roster. Virtually no-one worth keeping. Last minute cap penalty heading into year 3 scuppered plans for that year and this year. No doubt it's had an impact.

by GSC Wed 27 Nov 2013, 1:46 pm

Cap penalty doesn't affect your ability to draft. Sure it might hurt the Redskins in chasing a big name FA, but a. When has that worked for the team anyway and b. a few lesser FAs wouldn't turn this team around.

It's not a blanket excuse for why the roster is lacking. It's purely reputation that's saving Shanahan from the treatment of a Zorn type, because the job he's done hasn't been much better if at all.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 27 Nov 2013, 3:49 pm

I understand your view number-25, but I'm with GSC on this one. If I was Washington I'd give Cousins some gametime then fleece someone for some draft picks in a trade

In other news Chandler Jones picked up AFC Defensive player of the month. The man's a stud

by **Pr4wn** Wed 27 Nov 2013, 4:13 pm

Lavonte David picked up the NFL defensive player of the week and Mike Glennon is the NFL rookie of the month.

David is playing at an All-Pro level this year.

by Number-25 Wed 27 Nov 2013, 5:18 pm

The drafting hasn't been too bad to be fair - he's hit on most of the picks in rounds 1 to 4 but missed on most of the later round picks. His 3 first round picks have all been good and would start on most other teams. Jarvis Jenkins is probably his most questionable pick. His biggest mistake was the McNabb trade although ironically, if that had never happened we might never have got Alfred Morris cos that's who we took with the pick that Minnesota gave us for McNabb. Still though, the McNabb trade should never have been made.

I don't have a problem with Shanahan getting a longer leash than Zorn. Shanahan does have a reputation - he was the guy that turned Elway into a winner. Zorn had nothing to fall back on.

There 8 players on our 53 man roster who remain from Zorn's last season - only 3 of them are starters. That's a lot of spaces to fill. You're not going to manage that through the draft. That's why a 36m cap hit hurts so much. It's not like we lost a bunch of guys that are contributing elsewhere either - I can only think of 2 guys that are significant contributors elsewhere - Rogers and Landry. God knows we could use them now but both guys wanted to leave.

Olly - I still don't see the point in starting Cousins now. RG3 needs playing time. He needs to go through this to work out how to get better. I don't think playing Cousins would do anything to enhance his value.... not behind that O-Line. As for Chandler Jones, I thought he was awesome in that second half against Denver.

BTW, I'm not giving a total pass to Shanahan for where we are. He's made plenty mistakes. Just trying to point out it was no ordinary job he took on.

by GSC Wed 27 Nov 2013, 5:44 pm

Thing is though, very rarely will a HC inherit a quality team.

I mean Schwartz inherited a 0-16 team and a few seasons later they're in the postseason (an tbh I don't think he's a great HC either.)

Kelly inherited a mess, Reid got a 2-14 team just last season alone. The job Shanahan has done since Elway has been mediocre in the extreme, and you can't get away from that.

by BamBam Wed 27 Nov 2013, 9:25 pm

Via Bill Simmons - retroactive NFL hits to make you cringe

https://youtu.be/CtcQqwpCFJ4

Good night Mr Bradshaw

by BamBam Wed 27 Nov 2013, 9:35 pm

Is retroactive even a word? I think I meant retrospective

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 27 Nov 2013, 9:46 pm

BamBam wrote:Via Bill Simmons - retroactive NFL hits to make you cringe

https://youtu.be/CtcQqwpCFJ4

Good night Mr Bradshaw

Can't believe they threw the flag Smile

by skins4ever Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:46 am

OK, not to defend Shanny too much, but consider this; whilst the cap penalty does not heavily impact the cost of signing draft picks, it does heavily impact the ability to shore up areas that are hurting with quality FA's. I agree with many that Reed Doughty and Josh Wilson likely wouldn't get a sniff of playing time elsewhere, but tell me what FA DB's are out there to replace them? We bring in Jackson who gets himself suspended and 2 draft picks that are struggling to get on the field. Rambo got hurt early, and Amerson has alternated between good and bad games. Beyond Hall (who's actually had a good year) we have no quality in the secondary, not counted Meriweather who can dish out quality concussions and illegal hits...

Carriker has been out for two seasons, and he was our best DL by a mile, and now we've lost Bowen. Again, never mind the cap hit, where's the talent on the street to replace them? And lets not forget the nightmare Shanny inherited with Albert 'Worthless'. That killed our cap in itself for the last two years, without a penalty.

Our D sucks because we cannot get the quality on the field, and the play calling abysmal. Shanny doesn't call D, and if he shoves Haslett under the bus mid season, who does he give the job to? Raheem Morris?! The man who failed in Tampa and can't find a CB who can cover a #2 WR?

He's got to suck up all the issues with cap, injuries and a lousy D until the offseason. If he then clears some house on D (sorry London, future HOFer I reckon, but on your last legs) starting with the coaches, then rebuilds both that and the OL, and finds a good WR in the draft (trade Cousins for a 2nd rounder maybe?) plus draft depth in the secondary (I can't see more than one decent FA available at CB after this season), and it could be a good season next year. A full training camp with RGIII and who knows what a turnaround he can achieve. If he does most of that by March, I'd give him and extension. And if he sacks his son, then maybe an even longer extension!

Even if Snyder does the daft thing, who is he going to replace him with?

by GSC Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:24 am

Shanahan is however at least partly responsible for giving Haslett the tools to work with. It's something he failed at towards the end in Denver too. As for guys off the street, we started a guy Houston cut in preseason at CB against you. Injuries happen.

Shanahan to me very much looks like a guy on the downswing of his career. I'd chuck him and Allen, and go find a young GM from somewhere like Seattle etc and allow him to pick his own HC. You'd have first pick of both because of RG3

by Number-25 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:50 pm

What you've got here though GSC is a fan base that is just tired of change and upheaval at the HC position. I don't even remember now how many HCs we've had since we last won the Superbowl. Too many anyway. Last year we showed progress. This year we've gone back again. I take your point about the defense but for me the fatal flaw there was moving away from a really good 4-3 defense to a 3-4. That was Shanahan's call and to this point it's not been a good one. Offensively though, we've made big strides under shanahan - even though it might not have looked like it this season!

Listen, I can well understand why you think he should be dumped. A lot of people will think the same way. We're 3-8 and most likely about to record a third double digit loss season in 4 years. I just feel though that if you give a guy a 5 year leash then you should let him see it through unless he's a total disaster which Shanahan hasn't been. I'd sit him down, see what the offseason plan is and if I like what I'm hearing enough then I extend the contract by another couple of years - that's not too long a leash but long enough that he's not a lame duck HC and long enough that it reassured potential FA acquisitions. I've just got too small an appetite for yet another HC change.

Anyway, I'm sure people are getting fed up with us debating this - it's Thanksgiving and another slate of games awaits starting with tonight's marathon. Who have you all got?? I'm going with Detroit, Dallas and Pittsburgh.

by TM Moot Thu 28 Nov 2013, 2:33 pm

Number-25 wrote:Anyway, I'm sure people are getting fed up with us debating this - it's Thanksgiving and another slate of games awaits starting with tonight's marathon. Who have you all got?? I'm going with Detroit, Dallas and Pittsburgh.

I quite like reading about these type of debates. I find its a good way of broadening my (fairly limited) NFL knowledge.

On to todays games, I'll go Lions (unfortunatley I can see the Packers out of the playoffs tonight Sad

), Cowboys and Ravens.

by Number-25 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 5:13 pm

BamBam wrote:Is retroactive even a word? I think I meant retrospective

Apparently retroactive is an actual word - it's used to describe the scenario where something that happens now affects the past.... apparently.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 28 Nov 2013, 8:58 pm

Well on paper looks a Detroit blowout but if green bay have Rodgers they win that game for me. The defence got the turnovers, offence was abysmal

by mikeygnfl Thu 28 Nov 2013, 9:06 pm

Green Bay had 24 rushing yards but were sacked for 37 yards. The Lions must be strong favourites for the NFC North now.

by GSC Thu 28 Nov 2013, 10:01 pm

Not sure how much more Rodgers could do. Lions front 4 were immense

by NYJ Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:19 pm

GSC wrote:Not sure how much more Rodgers could do. Lions front 4 were immense

Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the league. He can win any game on his own.

by GSC Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:35 pm

Any QB can be made to look ordinary by a great pass rush

by RDuncan8 Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:36 pm

NYJ wrote:
GSC wrote:Not sure how much more Rodgers could do. Lions front 4 were immense
Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the league. He can win any game on his own.

Yep. Packers one man team.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 29 Nov 2013, 12:33 am

What's with the second string players on the jeep ads on sky?

by Guest Fri 29 Nov 2013, 12:39 am

Will somebody let Oakland know that football is played over an hour not 30 minutes

The defense can't even tackle when Murray ran into his own player

by mikeygnfl Fri 29 Nov 2013, 2:46 am

Suisham

by mikeygnfl Fri 29 Nov 2013, 3:02 pm

Mad end to the Steelers vs Ravens game. The Steelers had two TDs reversed before finally getting a TD at the third attempt before missing the 2 pt conversion.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sun 01 Dec 2013, 4:35 pm

Ridley inactive. Means more Blount. Sighs

by mikeygnfl Sun 01 Dec 2013, 5:15 pm

Andre Ellington is inactive for the Cardinals.

by Hibbz Sun 01 Dec 2013, 6:06 pm

Why no red button red zone thingy?

by adams_legend Sun 01 Dec 2013, 6:14 pm

Hibbz wrote:Why no red button red zone thingy?

I am watching red zone right now, failed to start first te round

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sun 01 Dec 2013, 6:30 pm

It'd be nice if the Pats could turn up 1st quarter just once

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sun 01 Dec 2013, 6:37 pm

GRONKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

by Take it to the house Sun 01 Dec 2013, 7:01 pm

Errr, why were we not using Patterson in this way when the games actually mattered!! Doh

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sun 01 Dec 2013, 7:10 pm

Would probably be a good idea for the team to turn up second half

by Hibbz Sun 01 Dec 2013, 7:26 pm

adams_legend wrote:
Hibbz wrote:Why no red button red zone thingy?
I am watching red zone right now, failed to start first te round

Yeah, got it now thanks. Never sure whether I'm missing out on the wonderful nuances of watching a full game but those Chrysler adds used to drive me mental. Actually saying that they seemed to have changed when I watched the full Packers game on Thursday (actually I didn't manage the full game, as a Cheesehead it was just too painful) so maybe I'll go back to watching the full coverage sometimes.

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