Ongoing NFL Discussion Thread IV

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

I still dream of Sudfeld and Gronk over the middle Dave  

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Percy Harvin will practice this week

He's made an awfully quick recovery...

[Number-25]

Wow! The Washington media is being extremely negative about all things Redskins. Can't say I disagree - we've all seen this movie way too many times before in the Snyder era. I've got zero confidence that whichever patsy turns up in our HC office in the next few weeks for a big pay day will do any better than any other guy has done over the last 20 years. Zero.

[Pr4wn]

These are my thoughts on the Buccaneers firings.

They both had to go and here's why. Greg Schiano was far too controlling to be an NFL head coach. It seemed to me like that, despite employing co-ordinators to do those specific jobs, he still maintained a great deal of control over both the offense and the defence. He couldn't handle the media, the MRSA and the handling of that was an embarassment, the handling of the Freeman saga was an embarassment and, quite simply, the Buccaneers were a poorly coached team this season. Far too many close games lost, far too many penalties.

Secondly, Dominik deserved to go. I know every buc fan has a sentimental attachment to him and I understand that but he wasn't up to the job. He gave huge contracts to players that simply didn't deserve them. Quincy Black, Eric Wright, Michael Koenen and Dashon Goldson did not deserve their contracts at all. Heck, we could have had Peyton Manning had he played his cards right. Secondly, his drafting was patchy at best. Sure, he hit some picks out of the park (David, McCoy, Martin) but there were too many busts in there (Bowers, Benn, Stocker, Freeman). I know he's a great guy and I know that he did his very best for not only the Buccaneers but our Bucs UK club too. But we deserve a better GM than what Dom has to offer. This team is far too talented to be 4-12 and I can't help but think that with some better management, we could have been looking forward to another game in the coming weeks instead of looking forward to yet another top-10 draft pick.

Let's not forget that Dom's record since becoming GM of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers is 28-52. That is simply not good enough. And I really regret that because he's a great guy who has dedicated such a huge part of his life to our team.

[Thomond]

Pr4wn, you can talk about the big contracts, but Dom is a wizard with the cap, the Bucs still have in excess of ten million I believe, guy knows what he is doing there. They got out of the Black and Wright deals due to injury clauses and a dumbass clause for Wright.


His mixed success in the draft, sure, but he has made up for that with his great UDFA pickups. Michael Bennett, Tim Wright, Leonard Johnson, LeGarette Blount, Demar Dotson, seriously there are few teams who have picked up as good players from that position. There are issues with talent in some spots, and he is culpable for that, the guy will get another job, no doubt about it, I had a chance to get a quick word with him in the summer about his drafting and scouting policies, any prospective Owners will come away impressed.


He didn't hire Raheem and he didn't hire Schiano. How much of that is on him? The only thing you can blame him for is not paying Bennett and about 4 draft busts (Stocker is a 4th rounder, they can be hit or miss you shouldn't be expecting anything amazing from them)

[GSC]

GM more than any other is a results business. Dominiks weren't good enough

[Pr4wn]

He failed to add or retain a consistent pass rusher in any of his five years with the team. Bennett should have been retained but he didn't pull the trigger.

The record speaks for itself.

[Thomond]

How is the record his fault when he doesn't hire the coaches? The Bucs have made a big mistake in letting a guy of his talent go, that's all I'll say. Shelton Quarles, if he gets it will be a very decent replacement though. Rich McKay isn't taking it.

[GSC]

And the killer. He missed big time on a QB

[Thomond]

Raheem was a big factor in picking Freeman, and well Schiano has a lot to answer for with Freeman, that NFLPA investigation will be very interesting, Schiano ducked all Freeman related questions at his press conference yesterday

[GSC]

Did Dominik do anything then?

Freeman was just a bad QB. Schiano made mistakes but dumping him wasnt one

[GSC]

Even the talented players. They had to pay Jackson because Benn was a bust. Numerous misses in the secondary so a 1st round pick and 16m to a rehabbing Revis, however much Goldson makes. They had to pay top dollar to other people's players because Dominiks weren't good enough

[Pr4wn]

Goldson has been a bust but Jackson has been worth every penny.

Forgot about Brian Price and Myron Lewis on the bust list too.

Also, managing the cap should be a relatively easy thing to be good at if you're a guy in his position. Mis-managing the cap is inexcusable for a GM.

[crazy_dave23]

He did draft Adrian Clayborn... and that was pretty funny as far as you were concerned!

[Number-25]

Redskins have requested permission to interview Darrell Bevell. Hard to imagine the Seahawks will deny him the chance to interview and if he's smart he'll go for the interview but knock us back. We'd kill his HC career before it even started. Having the prospect of Dan Snyder's millions involved in your bidding process never hurts when your negotiating with other teams. Under no circumstances should he accept though. He should leave our job to whichever old retread we end up having to recruit..... or the next Jim Zorn. I don't like the Redskins thinking though that success with Russell Wilson will translate to success with Griffin. Kind of ignores all the other factors hat have gone into making Seattle a good team and by extension, Wilson a good QB.

[GSC]

I think McDaniels has a lot of potential as a HC. He's a very good coach.

There were mistakes made in his first stint that he must learn from though. Namely the Schiano act doesn't cut it at a NFL level.

I also think Denver made a lot of mistakes. Handing control of their entire organisation to a 33 yo was dumb in the extreme. They also allowed him to blow up the organisation and fired him before he was done rebuilding it

[GSC]

I also hate the practice of hiring coordinators because they had a hand in developing a QB somewhere. Hire an actual leader instead of the Kyle Shanahans and Jason Garretts of this world

[Lowlandbrit]

Reports say O'Brien to Texans is done, will probably be announced on Thursday.

[mikeygnfl]

I have set up a 606v2 league for the nfl.com playoff challenge:-

http://playoffchallenge.fantasy.nfl.com/group/151044

League is:- 606v2
Password is:- superbowl

[skins4ever]

Agree that you shouldn't bring in an OC for the HC position unless he is actually going to be a HC and not a glorified coordinator. You need a QB coach and OC to develop a QB, not the HC. HC must have input but not involved in their day to day development.

Skins need a D minded HC who can rebuild the D while improving the weak positions on O (OL and a WR to star with Garcon). We need an OC like McDaniels or Kubiak who can work well with a QB. We need a DC who can run a zone coverage scheme that doesn't involve massive holes everywhere.

Right now of the coachless teams, only the Lions are in a better position than the Skins - the rest have key weaknesses such as no established QB. As long as Allen acts as a buffer between the owner and HC, DC isn't al that bad a gig.

[mikeygnfl]

It looks like the Buccaneers are bringing Lovie Smith back to Tampa Bay. I would if he will be tempted to bring along Jay Cutler?

[Pr4wn]

Rumours that he'll have Leslie Frazier as DC.

[GSC]

Nope Rod Marinelli again. Fairly uninspiring if I'm honest. Lovie was a steady HC but not a great one, Bucs are just trying to bring back the good old days it seems.

Anyone want to take a stab at the odds of Revis getting 16m a year to play Tampa 2?

[GSC]

It looks like the Buccaneers are bringing Lovie Smith back to Tampa Bay. I would if he will be tempted to bring along Jay Cutler?

No.

[Bull]

Cutler will be staying a Bear.

[NYJ]

Nope Rod Marinelli again. Fairly uninspiring if I'm honest. Lovie was a steady HC but not a great one, Bucs are just trying to bring back the good old days it seems.

Anyone want to take a stab at the odds of Revis getting 16m a year to play Tampa 2?

It would be madness to keep the same old scheme when you have Revis. You need to mould your defense around him to utilise his unique skills and get the best out of other players. The best coaches adapt to the talent they have around them. It infuriates me when a new coach comes in and implements their system with no regard for the strengths of the team.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Cutler will be staying a Bear.

Not a chance if Chicago have any sense. He'll cost too much for what he offers, and that money needs to be spent improving the defence. At worst McCown could do a job for a season or two in Trestman's scheme.

No point paying big bucks for Cutler IMO. Not worth it.

[GSC]

Lovie and Marinelli are Tampa 2 guys through and through

[Bull]

Marshall won't be happy if they don't resign Cutler though.

[GSC]

Marshalls paid well enough to.afford video calling

[Thomond]

If you think Lovie is solely a Tampa 2 guy then you didn't watch the Bears under him in the last few years. No one plays Tampa 2 that often you do you get killed. Lovie mixes in a lot more man and cover 3. It's how he had Tillman shut down megatron.

[Number-25]

So, that just leaves Washington, Cleveland, Minnesota and Detroit.... yuck, who's desperate enough for an HC job this year that they'll take on one of the first 3???

Re Cutler, that's a big decision for the Bears. Personally, I don't think he's consistent enough to give big bucks to. They did give up a lot to get him in the first place though but he doesn't fall into the irreplaceable category.... as Josh McCown showed.

[crazy_dave23]

I have set up a 606v2 league for the nfl.com playoff challenge:-

http://playoffchallenge.fantasy.nfl.com/group/151044

League is:- 606v2
Password is:- superbowl

Cheers Mikeygnfl... i've joined this one rather than reactivating last years version which I ran

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Yeah I'll join up later today! Cheers mikey

[Lowlandbrit]

Apparently Saints/Eagles is the only game that's sold out so far.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Cutler signed to a SEVEN YEAR extension

#headsgone

[Lowlandbrit]

Cutler signed to a SEVEN YEAR extension

VERY interested to see how that's structured.

[Bull]

Told you he would remain a Bear.

[GSC]

Pretty scared decision in the end. Cutlers never been good enough. Back yourself to find a QB

[twelve283]

Not a fan of Cutler based on what he's shown to this point but the Bears had to make a choice. Nothing in FA, only other option was to start over and draft a QB.

Like Lowland I'm interested to see how the deal is structured.

[Colan (niner)]

What head coaches are viable options now for last few teams. I think David Cutcliffe and Mike Zimmer are good shouts if they can be convinced. Art Briles too but think he'll stay put even if offers come in, same with David Shaw and James Franklin unfortunately. For the Vikings I'd like Sean McDermott, go with an up and comer, second favourite team and can't be doing with the rumours of Pat Shurmur and Mike Sherman

[Lowlandbrit]

Art Briles too but think he'll stay put even if offers come in, same with David Shaw and James Franklin unfortunately.

Another possible complication there is that Texas is competing for those guys too, and can offer at least the same sort of salary most NFL teams can.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

What head coaches are viable options now for last few teams. I think David Cutcliffe and Mike Zimmer are good shouts if they can be convinced. Art Briles too but think he'll stay put even if offers come in, same with David Shaw and James Franklin unfortunately. For the Vikings I'd like Sean McDermott, go with an up and comer, second favourite team and can't be doing with the rumours of Pat Shurmur and Mike Sherman

Jim Caldwell is getting interviews (rather bizarrely IMO), McDaniels as well. Todd Bowles being interviewed by Cleveland. Then Base but not sure people will wait for him.

Seems Tennessee will keep Munchak. Tampa officially bring in Lovie Smith

[Pr4wn]

Caldwell = Rooney rule.

[Number-25]

My thoughts too Pr4wn.

Also, the Redskins are to interview Perry Fewell. That also = Rooney rule. You gotta believe that if he was HC material he'd have been given a bigger shot at it by this stage of his career than the few games he got as Buffalo HC a few years ago. That said, he'll prob become the next Redskins HC. He prob ticks the desperation box!

[GSC]

I don't think you can claim Rooney rule if they're interviewing 2 black candidates.

[Number-25]

I think you can if the candidates don't appear to have much of a shot at the job. Like I said about Fewell, he's been knocking around the game long enough to have had a proper shot at an HC job if he was regarded as having the right tools, whatever they are, to be good at it. Caldwell is prob a more realistic candidate given his largely successful time in Indianapolis but will forever be tainted by his Manningless season.

I have no clue as to who the Redskins should go for. What they should be looking for though is a guy with a track record of preparing players properly and of getting them to play with discipline and with a grasp of the fundamentals of the game. The hallmark of the Redskins for far too long now has been sloppy football.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Caldwell = Rooney rule.

TBD while I don't think he is exactly a great candidate, I could see him being seriously considered for a HC job. The Ravens offence certainly got better under him (hampered by the very poor o line under Castillo this year)

[GSC]

Logically speaking, if you interview 2 black candidates, they're not Rooney rule interviews.

[twelve283]

What head coaches are viable options now for last few teams. I think David Cutcliffe and Mike Zimmer are good shouts if they can be convinced. Art Briles too but think he'll stay put even if offers come in, same with David Shaw and James Franklin unfortunately. For the Vikings I'd like Sean McDermott, go with an up and comer, second favourite team and can't be doing with the rumours of Pat Shurmur and Mike Sherman

I would give Mike Zimmer a shot as HC without a doubt. Maybe Ray Horton. I'm glad to see Bill O'Brien get a chance, don't have high hopes but maybe he'll surprise. Looking at guys who have prior experience I think you could do worse than Ken Whisenhunt. Josh McDaniels might get another shot but I wouldn't hire him.

[Lowlandbrit]

Temperature forecast to be below zero in Green Bay on Sunday. That's Fahrenheit.

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