"....the Autumn has become like a pre-season for us," Gatland rues

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-insists-regional-rugby-6288953

Warren Gatland admitted his Wales players were once again caught cold by the intensity of combat with South Africa, insisting that the standard of domestic rugby doesn’t prepare them well enough. Asked to consider the seemingly ever-present gulf between his side and the big southern hemisphere three after yet another November reverse, Gatland said: “South Africa and the other southern hemisphere players get to play at that intensity all the time. “Whether it is in the Rugby Championship or Super Rugby. We get maybe four or five chances and it is not the fitness or physicality, it’s the chance to play at a tempo in which speed of thought is key. It takes us a little bit of time to re-adjust and get used to it. For me that is the big difference, that is the advantage they have over us. Talk to our players about coming out of club and regional rugby (into Test rugby) and they will tell you it’s like chalk and cheese

I prefer the argument that Welsh players are not up to speed to the idea that they are just intinisically incapable of matching teams from the south.

Gatland doesn't, however, go into why he thinks Welsh players start the season slowly and can't get a lift-off from regional rugby.

I thought he said exactly that...regional rugby is not close enough to the level required for the AIs. It might be for England perhaps but it seems to have merit in that the welsh tend to peak during the 6Ns

Rubbish excuse. Wales lost. Get over it.

Taylorman wrote:I thought he said exactly that...regional rugby is not close enough to the level required for the AIs. It might be for England perhaps but it seems to have merit in that the welsh tend to peak during the 6Ns

I'd argue that if Wales played England or any of the other 6 Nations sides we'd smash them. Yesterday Wales played well, we had injuries and took more injuries yes we lost but it was not a hammering. We are not far behind as many make us think, could have gone either way yesterday.

Hubert Davenport wrote:Rubbish excuse. Wales lost. Get over it.

Good discussion there, as per.

I think we have to draw a line between excuse making and analysis to find reasons.

Undoubtably Wales have some fine players, and sorry for the rank cliche, but on their day, can beat anyone. The performance against england last year was sublime. And we've seen that this England side are a quality unit up with the best.

A Wales dominated lions side took apart Australia similarly convincingly under the same coach.

So why do Wales continue to lose these close ones?

For me a few areas.

Firstly the suffered crucial injuries again. Wales are strong but lack depth. Losing Adam jones in particular unhinged their key weapon which is their scrum.

That aside it's about the inability to control the game and assert their own style; and select the right plan for the opposition.

Against South Africa Wales' USP is superior creativity, but they didn't display it. Chosing instead a percentage game that SA excel in. They look best ball in hand, but kicked possession away poorly and lacked confidence to execute, playing within themselves. Passing laterally and early. Failing to engage defenders at the advantage line.

Finally: the millennium stadium itself. The pitch is sub standard and not a platform for playing the higher tempo game they are capable of and need to play to break down structures defensive teams.

Taylorman wrote:I thought he said exactly that...regional rugby is not close enough to the level required for the AIs. It might be for England perhaps but it seems to have merit in that the welsh tend to peak during the 6Ns

I tend to agree. Even a lot of welsh supporters say that Wales are traditionally slow starters & their record in the Autumn Internationals bears this out. Fine margins yes but that is what happens at the top level. Making quick decisions under pressure & if it hasn't been second nature because of the lack of intensity in games week in week out it will be less likely to become second nature.

Having said that I agree Wales can take a lot out of that game & were very unfortunate with injuries.

Well gatland couldn't resist falling for a physical bait trap set by the boks... You don't out physical the boks. No one does, not NZ, not France, not England.

The one team that beat SA this year.. How did they do it??? Did they take them hit for hit, no.... They ran them to the ground, they wore the backrow which averages 116kgs a man... That's a front row average not a backrow one.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Taylorman wrote:I thought he said exactly that...regional rugby is not close enough to the level required for the AIs. It might be for England perhaps but it seems to have merit in that the welsh tend to peak during the 6Ns

I'd argue that if Wales played England or any of the other 6 Nations sides we'd smash them.  Yesterday Wales played well, we had injuries and took more injuries yes we lost but it was not a hammering.  We are not far behind as many make us think, could have gone either way yesterday.

Except of course that England's greatest performance over the last few years (v New Zealand 2012) was far superior to what a Welsh team has been able to do in that time.

And 3 tries to nil yesterday sorta indicates that you are a bit behind South Africa.

The reason we lost was Gatland

I am getting fed up with him and Howley's strange selections. ie some players can do no wrong and others not given a chance.

Why did he select Priestland. The lad is so weak mentally, his kicking game is absolutely shocking. We saw again yesterday him missing touch from penalties. Biggar deserved this game as he has done absolutely nothing wrong. He would have put us in the right areas of the field without doubt. The poor lad must be wondering what he has to do to gain the favour and chances Priestland gets.

My other selection gripes are Brad Davies, who in my mind is out 4th choice lock after Alun Wyn, Ian Evans and Charteris, all of whom would have done a better job than the plodder than Brad is.

Finally where was Samson Lee. He has been th ebest tighthead in Wales this year and yet he doesn't make a squad with 3 tightheads in it. The selection of that powder puff Cardiff prop is a joke. All season he has been going backwards against everyone and clearly they didn't have that much confidence in him as they brought Paul James on instead.

major disruptions yesterday because of the injuries in the first half, with our key forward and back going off and with the injury to Liam Williams meaning shifting Halfpenny around.

Not sure what the rest of the Autumn will bring but we are now missing Cutbert Roberts and Jon Fox from our backline and they are our 3 main threats.

Losing Adam Jones is a disaster if Gatland considers Scott Andrews to be the next in line for the role. Against Argentina??? really Gats?

A well deserved win for SA yesterday but we were sloppy in so much of our execution and never threatened them at all.

Final word for the ref, pretty decent game overall but I didn't see one straight put in in the scrum from SA and surely if Wales were attacking and SA kill the 2 yards from the try line then some one has to see yellow?

I was shocked that we didn't move Hook to 12 and North to 13 when we had nothing going for us. Beck was useless and Williams struggled to get in to the game once Beck came on (in my opinion). At least with some creativity from Hook, North might have seen the ball more than once. We all know George is a phenom, but he looked lazy yesterday. In a game where we needed someone to light a spark he languished on his wing and only came in through the middle once that I recall. He needs to be more proactive. I hate being glum, so on a positive note. I thought Sam, Lids and Hibb’s were awesome yesterday, I had Hibbard down as man of the match.

doctornickolas wrote:The reason we lost was Gatland

I am getting fed up with him and Howley's strange selections. ie some players can do no wrong and others not given a chance.

Why did he select Priestland. The lad is so weak mentally, his kicking game is absolutely shocking. We saw again yesterday him missing touch from penalties. Biggar deserved this game as he has done absolutely nothing wrong. He would have put us in the right areas of the field without doubt. The poor lad must be wondering what he has to do to gain the favour and chances Priestland gets.

My other selection gripes are Brad Davies, who in my mind is out 4th choice lock after Alun Wyn, Ian Evans and Charteris, all of whom would have done a better job than the plodder than Brad is.

Finally where was Samson Lee. He has been th ebest tighthead in Wales this year and yet he doesn't make a squad with 3 tightheads in it. The selection of that powder puff Cardiff prop is a joke. All season he has been going backwards against everyone and clearly they didn't have that much confidence in him as they brought Paul James on instead.

major disruptions yesterday because of the injuries in the first half, with our key forward and back going off and with the injury to Liam Williams meaning shifting Halfpenny around.

Not sure what the rest of the Autumn will bring but we are now missing Cutbert Roberts and Jon Fox from our backline and they are our 3 main threats.

Losing Adam Jones is a disaster if Gatland considers Scott Andrews to be the next in line for the role. Against Argentina??? really Gats?

A well deserved win for SA yesterday but we were sloppy in so much of our execution and never threatened them at all.

Final word for the ref, pretty decent game overall but I didn't see one straight put in in the scrum from SA and surely if Wales were attacking and SA kill the  2 yards from the try line then some one has to see yellow?

Agree with all the above. Next match , Biggar to 10, RP to Rabo. Mike Phillips, your time is up. Slow ball that forced us to run the ball in our own 22 and wasted linebreaks at the other end. Ashley Beck? Not really. Call ups for Lee Byrne and Samson Lee.

Score could have been higher. Lambie botched a couple of DG attempts and butterfingers Beast blew a certain try.

This is why having a European Cup format that consistently exposes players of every one of the Six Nations to top-level competitive rugby is so important. It can't quite bridge the gap between test level and club level but it damn well helps.

Coleman wrote:I was shocked that we didn't move Hook to 12 and North to 13 when we had nothing going for us. Beck was useless and Williams struggled to get in to the game once Beck came on (in my opinion). At least with some creativity from Hook, North might have seen the ball more than once. We all know George is a phenom, but he looked lazy yesterday. In a game where we needed someone to light a spark he languished on his wing and only came in through the middle once that I recall. He needs to be more proactive. I hate being glum, so on a positive note. I thought Sam, Lids and Hibb’s were awesome yesterday, I had Hibbard down as man of the match.

This booting away of possession has been a hallmark of the Gatland years, even though we do not have the halfbacks to execute it well.  The time we looked most threatening was when we tore up the playbook and started throwing the ball around just before half-time.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Taylorman wrote:I thought he said exactly that...regional rugby is not close enough to the level required for the AIs. It might be for England perhaps but it seems to have merit in that the welsh tend to peak during the 6Ns

I'd argue that if Wales played England or any of the other 6 Nations sides we'd smash them.  Yesterday Wales played well, we had injuries and took more injuries yes we lost but it was not a hammering.  We are not far behind as many make us think, could have gone either way yesterday.

Gone either way? I must have watched a different game.
We never looked like wining! True the score was close at one stage but SA's ill discipline gifted us most of our points. We were second best at line out, kicking, breakdown and slow in thought and execution. In too many positions we have little depth. Beck and Lloyd Williams are simply not test standard and Jenkins was once again exposed in the scrum.

We are more competitive against SH teams than we were and at least we make a game of it. SA have got a lot better and are capable of more than just the power play. Wales have put in just one really good performance (v England) in at least the last dozen I have watched.

It seems a lot of folks are being quite typically fatalistic again.....Wales weren't that bad for the 1st game of the season. SA 1st up? Hibbard was fantastic despite his hair and as said above the two flankers showed some class. The 'team' as a unit looked rusty, the step up is a big one. Not sure about the strength in depth of the tight 5 yesterday and I remain unconvinced about Falateau but I'm sure that as the season goes on and come the 6n's Wales will be right back up there. Unfortunately!. It is amazing though how some Wales' fans can turn on their idols - Phillips was the best thing since sliced bread at Lions time!

He doesn't rate the Top14 very highly then  

ultra wrote: It is amazing though how some Wales' fans can turn on their idols - Phillips was the best thing since sliced bread at Lions time!

Lions 2008 - yes, absolutely. He was mediocre in Oz, but Ben Youngs muffed his chance. Connor Murray came on in the last 30 mins of the last test and did very well.

What i do not understand about yesterday is why Priestland started and not Biggar. Wales have looked more Dangerous with Biggar in the 10 shirt.

Also why was Tipuric on the bench? Surely against a top team like South Africa, you need to put out your best team, best players. Injuries cannot be helped i'm affraid.

But i just don understand why coaches like Gatland make excuses about losing to SA. Why did he not simply come out and say we ( WALES) simpy was not good enough.

Our game plan was not good enough, we did not have a plan (b) it was simple (Boot the ball) down field  and hope to get turn over ball.

I do agree with Sam Warburton if Wales are to be called a world class team, they have to start and beat either SA, AUS, or NZ. They ( WALES ) cannot be happy to keep winning the 6ns. They have to look further a fiield.

When European teams come to the SH in June it's the same for the hosts.... European teams are well drilled and close to end of season, SH teams are fresh, raw and a little off the pace. The SH teams still almost always win though.

Wales performed quite well considering the personnel that ended up on the pitch for the majority of the game.

The facts remain the same. With all our best players available, we are a decent test team. One or two injuries and we quickly become average. Other than swapping Biggar back in for Priestland, obviously, we have nothing waiting in the wings that will make any difference.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Taylorman wrote:I thought he said exactly that...regional rugby is not close enough to the level required for the AIs. It might be for England perhaps but it seems to have merit in that the welsh tend to peak during the 6Ns

I'd argue that if Wales played England or any of the other 6 Nations sides we'd smash them.  Yesterday Wales played well, we had injuries and took more injuries yes we lost but it was not a hammering.  We are not far behind as many make us think, could have gone either way yesterday.

Could have gone either way. Could it really? It has only ever gone Wales' way in one game since 1906. Can you not see a trend there?

Wales players were undercooked because the mentality is that the big players just play in big games because the Welsh team is more important than the regions, if he wants his players playing more he should tell their coaches to play them more.

Its been the same for all of his tenure as Welsh coach so why hasn't he addressed it sooner?

Risca Rev wrote:

Hubert Davenport wrote:Rubbish excuse. Wales lost. Get over it.

Good discussion there, as per.

Rev,

Why rise to him butty?

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Taylorman wrote:I thought he said exactly that...regional rugby is not close enough to the level required for the AIs. It might be for England perhaps but it seems to have merit in that the welsh tend to peak during the 6Ns

I'd argue that if Wales played England or any of the other 6 Nations sides we'd smash them.  Yesterday Wales played well, we had injuries and took more injuries yes we lost but it was not a hammering.  We are not far behind as many make us think, could have gone either way yesterday.

Warrior, losing three tries to nil does not suggest to me that the game could go either way. The breakdowns and scrum penalties were a lottery and Wales was fortunate enough that their penalties were kickable. It kept them in the game.

SA had only two kickable penalties in the game, of which one they decided to go for the corner.

I don't think Gatland was trying to make excuses but I'd like to understand more of his reasoning.

Barring injury, the majority of top European players will get the same amount of Heineken Cup action before the Autumn Internationals start.

He seems to be saying one of the following:

(1) None of the top European players get enough rugby at this stage of the season to compare with the intensity of Super Rugby, let alone Tests.

(2) England and France might get into the groove earlier through their own domestic leagues but the Pro12 starts more slowly

(3) The Pro12 is fine but the WRU and Welsh regions are obliged to manage their resources more carefully so Welsh players - more than Irish, Scottish or Welsh - come out of the traps more slowly in Autumn.


I don't think any of those arguments really hold up as an explanation for not beating top southern hemisphere teams in Autumn.

I don't think the Welsh guys come out of the traps slower than the other nations in the Pro12.

Rugby Fan wrote:I don't think Gatland was trying to make excuses but I'd like to understand more of his reasoning.

Barring injury, the majority of top European players will get the same amount of Heineken Cup action before the Autumn Internationals start.

He seems to be saying one of the following:

(1) None of the top European players get enough rugby at this stage of the season to compare with the intensity of Super Rugby, let alone Tests.

(2) England and France might get into the groove earlier through their own domestic leagues but the Pro12 starts more slowly

(3) The Pro12 is fine but the WRU and Welsh regions are obliged to manage their resources more carefully so Welsh players - more than Irish, Scottish or Welsh - come out of the traps more slowly in Autumn.


I don't think any of those arguments really hold up as an explanation for not beating top southern hemisphere teams in Autumn.

Really? I think you've just convinced me even more Rugby fan. For one, wins over the top 3 during the AI's are uncommon, they happen, but 1 or 2 a year at best. And thats at the point in the season where we are not at our peak. Our main season is over- the sxv, the home seasons and for us the Bledisloe and RC- that is when we peak, and furthermore, the AI's we have players opting for club contracts more.

So given that this is the best time of the year to take the wins...

Notch wrote:I don't think the Welsh guys come out of the traps slower than the other nations in the Pro12.

Yep, Scarlets have perfomed well in the Heineken, for example, and Ospreys are doing well in the Rabo.

majesticimperialman wrote:What i do not understand about yesterday is why Priestland started and not Biggar. Wales have looked more Dangerous with Biggar in the 10 shirt.

Also why was Tipuric on the bench? Surely against a top team like South Africa, you need to put out your best team, best players. Injuries cannot be helped i'm afraid.

Pretty much everyone outside Ospralia would have picked the same team. Biggar does not attack the line the way Gatland wants and Tipuric is a great 7 but Warbs and Lydiate is a better combination.

Is it time to replace Adam and Gethin?

Taylorman wrote:Really? I think you've just convinced me even more Rugby fan. For one, wins over the top 3 during the AI's are uncommon, they happen, but 1 or 2 a year at best. And thats at the point in the season where we are not at our peak. Our main season is over- the sxv, the home seasons and for us the Bledisloe and RC- that is when we peak, and furthermore, the AI's we have players opting for club contracts more.

So given that this is the best time of the year to take the wins...

Even though no-one in the North has anything much to brag about, the Welsh record in the AIs remains uniquely poor. The only argument of Gatland which matches that record is the one where the Welsh players are held back by domestic competition more than the Irish or Scots. I don't see how that can be the case.

I think some of the other rationales put forward here ring truer. To be honest, as an England supporter, I don't enjoy watching Wales grab Northern hemisphere titles and not be able to claim a major southern scalp. It just makes me feel frustrated about losing to Wales, especially as badly as we did last year.

At least when we were losing to Ireland regularly, they managed three consecutive wins over South Africa and a couple of wins over Australia.

Scrumpy wrote:Is it time to replace Adam and Gethin?

When we have James and Gill playing well in the Jeff, which i believe has better scrummaging week in week out then the Rabo. We need to be starting one of the two. Against Arg i'd love to see James, Hibbs and Lee. Gethin on form is the 5th choice pick in Wales right now.

I think its partly the ground as well. As I mentioned on another post theyre the only side to have a worse home record than away since 2010- thats just as unique- on a global basis even. Sure everyone else gets the same ground when they play them but Wales get to play 50% of their games there- no one else has near that.

And the Irish and Scots arent beating SH sides significantly more than Wales- who were in the last 6 or 7 theyve played until the final whistle anyway. I think its the 'none' thats standing out when theyve actually had many close misses- more than the others in fact.

Gethin being 5th choice on form? Woah.....

He was electric against the boks and one of the only forwards to rise to the intensity and raise it again. When hes fit and has gametime under his belt he is an excellent prop, in both the scrum and the loose. He may not be a destructive scrummager, but he doesnt need to be as part of that front 5.

My Loosehead list goes like this:

1st Gethin
2nd Paul James
3rd Gill
a long,long way behind in 4th Bevington

Regards to the SA Game - We actually showed some intelligence in attack from the backline before JD2/Liam Williams went off, that really hurt us (considering we were already missing Cuthbert & roberts) and with Halfpenny then on the wing and hook at fullback we lost any incisiveness. Halfpenny was running the line outside 13 we've all been asking for and it allowed JD2 to make some good linebreaks inside Fourie who had 2 dangerous runners to track.

The pack was good defensively, just didnt get any real momentum going with the ball in hand and provide good front foot ball. Flooded the ruck sonistently just ran out of players after a number of phases as they werent making any ground and it was easy for the boks to line them up. Priestland then made some mistakes which killed any momentum we did get then off the back of it, if Phillips hadnt alraedy slowed the ball down. The backline was makeshift by the time 40 minutes was up. We dont have the players to compete against SA/NZ when we're missing 3 clear first choice players in our backline and theres no variety to our ball carrying.

I was talking about regional form Comfort. He hasn’t been outstanding for the Blues since he got back, nor was he stand out at Toulon when he was there. You cannot argue that Phil John, regardless of age is the form Loose Head in Wales. I'd also say at regional level that Bevington has been better than Gethin. When you extend the parameters outside of Wales, Gill and James are both playing better then Gethin aswell. So to say that on FORM, Gethin is the 5th best choice loose head we have in Wales at the moment and shouldn’t be in the Wales squad is fair. It's only the fact that Gatland has never selected front row players on form that has kept Gethin on the team.

I read this article this morning and it actually felt a little bit like excuses. All the teams are the same, and we all lose or win based on the players we have

This just seems to be throwing the blame elsewhere, rather than admitting the game plan did not work, and the other team were better - and we will focus on improving the areas we lacked

Coleman, I think Gethin one of the player swho's proved that when hes fit, hes first choice. He turns it on at test level.

100% agree Phil John's been excellent this year, but he isn't gonna get a look in as he only has 1 or 2 years left in him at the top of his game. Bevington I think has been worse than he has been previous years.

Gill and James are both excellent props and I agree both on club form should be ahead of Gethin, but as I said, he's shown a nubmer of times that as long as he's fit he's a worthy choice for team wales.

If the pro12 does not put our internationals at the right intensity for playing in the autumn why does the wru fight so hard to keep our internationals back at the regions? Let them leave, ensure their contracts offer enough control to have them for training camps and the 4th AI game and let them raise their game in the top14. Can't hurt can it?

"....the Autumn has become like a pre-season for us," Gatland rues

I think this is simply more Gatland-spin. We all know this is something he is very good at and he pops out new lines as needed. Doesn't mean he is either a good coach or a bad one. But he likes playing what he feels are mind games. I would react to this the same as watching a blank tv screen............

doctor_grey wrote: "....the Autumn has become like a pre-season for us," Gatland rues

I think this is simply more Gatland-spin.  We all know this is something he is very good at and he pops out new lines as needed.  Doesn't mean he is either a good coach or a bad one.  But he likes playing what he feels are mind games.  I would react to this the same as watching a blank tv screen............

When you're confronted with a blank TV screen there are several possible scenarios:

1) You've just turned it off
2) You're staring at the microwave
3) You're employing the same 'home entertainment team' as GE
4) Gatland's mind games have reached a scary telekinetic level

doctor_grey wrote: "....the Autumn has become like a pre-season for us," Gatland rues

I think this is simply more Gatland-spin.  We all know this is something he is very good at and he pops out new lines as needed.  Doesn't mean he is either a good coach or a bad one.  But he likes playing what he feels are mind games.  I would react to this the same as watching a blank tv screen............

I don't think it is spin. I think people just like to see a Gatland comment and instantly jump on it. Now, I don't feel that any of the other Pro12 nations are in a different position to Wales, but then he never said that either. What he did say has some relevance. Gatland feels his players are not conditioned enough when he gets them, that the few weeks he has with them at the start of the AIs are spent getting them up to fitness - that which they had last time he had them in the 6N. We're therefore not hitting the ground running. More of a reason than an excuse for me. That is partly the fault of the regions themselves. Nothing outlandish in this statement.

Also, SA have just come of the back of a long season but their last few games have been at a very high intensity against very good opposition. I think it's a fair comment from Gatland that SA having played at that intensity are perhaps more ready for an another international game than our players who have been playing Zebre and Gwent Dragons. I don't think that's really excuses. If I was Wales coach, part of my analysis of what could improve would be that level of competition pre-international meet up. Our regions have a responsibility to themselves to get the players up the the top condition the they can. That will only help them do better in the league, and it makes Gatland and 'team Wales' job that much easier when they get them in the autumn. As it is they're playing a bit of catch up. I don't think it's any coincidence that we get a lot of injuries in the Autumn. It's not to do with opposition brutality. It's to do with not being conditioned to it. Gatland is pointing out that the league and the regional coaching teams are not getting our players ready for that step up sufficiently, and that is perhaps holding us back slightly. Fans of the English prem are quick to tell us that their league is far more physical and that stands them in better stead, but then tell us that we're making excuses when we say our league isn't at that intensity to ready us for international rugby! Which is it?!

P.s. I completely agree with GE's comment below. As soon as a coach raises a concern or asks a question it is seen as excuse making, especially if it is Gatland. But part of a coach's job is to ask questions in order to make changes and put things right. Fines lines, but Gatland IMO is analysing to find the reasons his team misfire in the AIs.

"I think we have to draw a line between excuse making and analysis to find reasons."

Griff wrote:Gatland is pointing out that the league and the regional coaching teams are not getting our players ready for that step up sufficiently, and that is perhaps holding us back slightly. Fans of the English prem are quick to tell us that their league is far more physical and that stands them in better stead, but then tell us that we're making excuses when we say our league isn't at that intensity to ready us for international rugby! Which is it?!

I get your point, but whether it is English, French, or Celtic, what are the teams supposed to do to get the players in better shape?  The French clubs start in mid-August, the Celts and Premiership in early September.  Everyone has played two rounds of European Rugby already in addition to the leagues.  What else is Gatland asking for that could be realistically done?  

I do think the international schedule in the north is a bit daft.  Play leagues, then Autumn Internationals, more leagues, 6 Nations, more leagues, then June Internationals.  Then a short rest and back in it again.  At least down south the International season is longer and (up to this year) more consistent.  
None of it makes good sense and makes for good rugby, methinks.

Dr, the answer is to adopt the strength and conditioning programmes that the WRU uses. If they need to put then through their paces in the welsh camp to raise fitness levels then it's logical to me that they aren't getting the right levels in regional training. More involvement needed in regional training by our international coaches?

P.s. It seems like a sly dig at the regions by Gatland rather than just a dig at the Pro12 IMO.

Griff wrote:Dr, the answer is to adopt the strength and conditioning programmes that the WRU uses. If they need to put then through their paces in the welsh camp to raise fitness levels then it's logical to me that they aren't getting the right levels in regional training. More involvement needed in regional training by our international coaches?

YOu make a great point.  Closer alignment between the teams and national teams regarding fitness, in particular, is a very good idea.  I think the problem is that the closer alignment is sometimes treated as if someone had a contagious disease.  And this is not simply a Welsh issue.  More or less, across the north.  

But, clearly, a good point.

Closer alignment across all levels of rugby (including some form of central contracting for the top pros) would be essential if Wales want to take the next step at test level.

This is not exactly groundbreaking news of course, and there seems little prospect of it ever happening.

Except Wales didn't lose because of a lack of fitness. We managed to stay in touch with the Boks because our fitness levels were good enough. No, the reason we lost was because the Boks fashioned and took their chances, whereas we didn't have either the willingness or the nous to see and expoit space when it presented itself.

LP; so Gatland was incorrect/exaggerating when he said that he needed to do remedial work with the players to get them up to the level he needs them to be at? I believe him on this occasion. I don't think the regions get them to where they need to be physically, so it takes the Wales management a few weeks. They can't hit the ground running.

We didn't lose because of a lack of fitness, but you could say that we lost because of a lack of physicality (or ability to cope with it), which is sort of the same thing, i.e. conditioning.