Wales squad additions and team for Argentina?

Samson Lee, Rhodri Jones, Hallam Amos and Tom Prydie have been added to the squad and will partake in training this week. Davies and Jones are likely to remain absent for the rest of our matches. So I'm guessing Lee will be in the mix for selection seeing as he would be the form choice. Not so sure about the other 3 or what positions they will be considered for exactly (Is Rhodri a LH or TH? Will Amos/Prydie play at wing or full-back?).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24882510

Given the news, what changes would you make to the Wales 23 for the next test versus Argentina?

1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. James
4. AWJ
5. Coombes
6. Warburton
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau
9. Rhodri Williams
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Scott Williams
13. Owen Williams
14. Liam Williams if fit otherwise....Prydie
15. Halfpenny

16. Owens
17. Lee
18.Rhodri Jones assuming Andrews is out
19. Charteris
20. Phillips
21. Priestland
22. Allen

Some interesting choices there. As it stands, I wouldn't drop any of our 2nd rows unless injury forces our hand. We need the current three because they're bigger guys and good at punching holes in opposition defences. Wouldn't mind seeing Coombes at 6 at some point, but he's behind Lydiate, or the Warbs/Tips combo should that be selected.

I don't think Davies played badly but Coombes offers more I feel. We're a bit bare on wingers and our centre options are untested and inexperienced

I do think Biggar is a good shout. But seeing that you do not have Hook in the team, i would of thought Lee Byrne. might be in line for a call up?

If it were up to me I'd have had Byrne in from the start, but it doesn't look likely he will be called up. I think its a good opportunity to develop some younger players anyway looking towards the World Cup.

I thought Hook played poorly yesterday, but its probably due to playing at fullback, I think he should either stick to the centre or flyhalf, but seeing how our game plan revolves around crash ball and getting over the gain line I don't see him being picked there. Likewise I dont think the management trust him to control the game which is why I have opted for Biggar. Priestland CAN cover 15 and 12 if need be.

I can't see Wales starting the game with two loose heads with two tight heads on the bench. Sadly the Wales management do not rate Lee so I can see Rhodri Jones starting, his form since converting to tight head is so spectacular that he currently plays his rugby for Llanelli RFC.

Other than at tight head, I suspect that you may be right Owen Williams could win his first cap at 13. I don't know about Biggar, don't forget his last start for Wales at 10 was not against England last 6N, it was against Japan and he had a nightmare, far worse that Priestland or Hook have ever played. But I would have him on the bench, I wouldn't want Hook coming on at 10 for an early injury!

IronMike wrote:1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. James
4. AWJ
5. Coombes
6. Warburton
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau
9. Rhodri Williams
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Scott Williams
13. Owen Williams
14. Liam Williams if fit otherwise....Prydie
15. Halfpenny

16. Owens
17. Lee
18.Rhodri Jones assuming Andrews is out
19. Charteris
20. Phillips
21. Priestland
22. Allen

Few changes differnces to what I would go for Iron, though a lot will depend on injuries etc:

James (would have started him yesterday)
Hibbard
Lee (hes trainibg with them so start him)
AWJ
Charteris
Warburton
Faletau
Tipuric

R Williams
Biggar

Prydie
North (lets give it a go)
Sc Williams
Li Williams (if fit)

Halfpenny

I think North would more likely be at 13 than 12. Wouldn't mind seeing him there anyway.

I wouldn't make to many changes to the starting line up really but this is what i would go for:
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Hibabrd
3. Paul James
4. Bradley Davies
5. Alyn Wyn Jones
6. Sam Warburton
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Toby Falateu

9. Mike Phillips
10. Dan Biggar
11. Leigh Halfpenny
12. Ashley Beck
13. Scott Williams
14. George North
15. James Hook

16. Owens
17. Bevington
18. Samson (give him game time, before long he will be great)
19. Coombs
20. Lydiate
21. Rhodri Williams
22. Preistland
23. Owen Williams

If Gethin and Paul coudl paly like they did Saturday then i don't care about the scrums. Look, to me Ayerza is the best loosehead in world rugby and the only tight head in world rugby who could keep him at bay would be Adam Jones but it's unlikely that will happen now. So is we put Aaron (if fit), Samson, Rhodri or Scott there it wouldn't make a difference, Paul James look eager to play and he deserves a start on Saturday; not at loosehead because Gethin was also amazing, but at tight head.
Second row pick themselves, Alyn Wyn isn't replaceable and Bradley was the best second row on the pitch Saturday; played his way into the team.
Give Tipuric who deserves a start on current form, Lydiate to get more game time and come on for game time.
We need to give Mike anther chance but i would really like to see Richie Rees get called up, been amazing so far this season.
The rest of the team picks itself.

There is NO WAY on gods earth I would move Halfpenny to the wing and then put Hook at XV.

I understand you thinking over the scrum but if we have a specialist T/Head then lets pick him, we are to a degree in this situation when Adams injured because we have shunted L/Heads there in the past rather than pick Tighties.

I agree - you do not move the (potentially) world player of the year out of position to accommodate someone who is miles away from being world player of the year! You then weaken Halfpenny and weaken the 15 spot as Hook is not as good as him (on form).

Yeah, especially for Hook at 15...

The only one I would consider moving him for is Byrne and thats purely because he is an out and out XV.

If fit I would leave Williams on the wing or if not then Prydie, any news on Eli Walkers' injury?

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Samson Lee
4. Bradley Davies
5. Alyn Wyn Jones
6. Sam Warburton
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Toby Falateu

9. Mike Phillips
10. Dan Biggar
11. Walker
12. Cory Allen
13. Scott Williams
14. George North
15. Halfpenny

16. Beck
17. Bevington
18. James
19. Ianto
20. Lydiate
21. Rhodri Williams
22. Preistland
23. Prydie

1. James
2. Hibbard
3. Lee
4. Charts
5. AWJ
6. Lyds
7. Warbs
8. Toby
9. Phillips
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Hook
13. S. Williams
14. Prydie
15. Halfpenny

Beck isn’t up to international standard. I know people have views on Hook but he can create things and he was wasted at 15 when he came on. We can't afford to take the Argies lightely. We need to front up and win, and then take the same squad in to the Tonga game.

1) James- reward him for his impact, and his scrummaging in the first half can help wear down the argies- Gethin on at 50
2) Hibbard
3) Lee- Form tighthead in rabo
4) Wyn Jones- Needs to step it up though
5) Davies- getting lots of criticism but carried well and wasn't a supposed yellow card waiting
6) Lydiate- needs to step it up, had a decent game but we know he can do more
7) warburton- was superb at the breakdown making a number of turnovers
8) Faletau
9) Phillips- speed up service though
10) Priestland- Nowhere near as bad as it is made out he was, if the pack can provide front foot ball combined with hopefully a settled balanced centre partnership he can be superb (look at is HC form), however needs to improve kicking
11) Eli Walker- He should be fit, and with Liam Williams likely out with concussion then this guy deserves his first cap
12) Allen/Williams- This is my one debate, do we either start Corey Allen at 12 or shift Scott (form welsh centre in rabo) to 13, or bring in Owen Williams to 13? tempted to bring in Allen as his size, however see Owen Williams at 13 more likely
13) Williams/Williams- see above
14) North- get more involved!
15) Halfpenny- anybody who is thinking about moving lions player of the series, rbs man of tournament, potential IRB player of year from his favoured position is mad! Just allow him to attack from deep!
16) Owens- great impact
17) Jenkins
18) Jones
19) Charteris
20) Tipuric
21) Rhodri Williams
22) Biggar- Don't know what he has done wrong but he deserves to be in the 23
23) Hook- Overall not a bad game to be fair to him, and can cover a variety of positions, also thought to be fair his joining the line as first receiver worked well,

Ruby,

Would be happy with that back line if he called Byrne up but I really can't see it happening.

Again why swap a L/Head if we have tight heads available, otherwise they will never get chance.

byrne isint in the squad and despite form I doubt he will be again, besides we often talk of depth and Byrne wont be around for the WC so why play him? might aswell give exposure to a younger lad, besides Byrne isint good enough to displace Halfpenny anyway.

In regards to the props, we need to develop strength at tighthead, so no point moving a loosehead, besides it means Bevington would have to be on the bench and he isint exactly in great form!

How about Hook at 13? I like a more powerful and abrasive player at 12, and a more creative slippery eel at 13. Hook could play that role nicely, although I appreciate it's probably not a role he's played much lately so there'll be complaints that we're messing him around (I think he's been playing 15 a fair bit for Perp).

If Priestland remains at 10 then I wouldn't really want Hook at 12 for defensive reasons. I may be completely wrong, but my perception of Priestland is that he's not the best defensive 10 about. Hook is no monster, so a Hook-Priestland 10-12 could we a weak link for us. Hook would offer no protection for Preistland, and if the Argies get a sniff and exploit that then Preistland may become 'flaky' again as we know he's a confidence player. Happy to be corrected on Priestland's defence if in fact he's a Jonny type 10 in defence???

Point well made about a Priestland-Hook 10/12 channel. I can't see past Biggar for the Argie game. Does anyone know why Samson Lee wasnt in the original squad?

I still have a sneaky feeling it might just have been as a lesson about discipline but thats just my thought on it.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I still have a sneaky feeling it might just have been as a lesson about discipline but thats just my thought on it.

What did he do? I've read on here people saying he did something. But i don't know what.

He was banned for two weeks for kicking Danny Care in the face!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24539685

Could Gatland be using that as a reason?

I thought Walker was out for all the Autumn tests.

Prydie, I would not have in the squad never mind the test 15, been with a number of top teams and let go by all.

15. Halfpenny
14. North
13. S.Williams
12. Hook
11. L.Williams
10. Biggar
09. Phillips
08. Falatau
07. Tipuric
06. Warburton
05. Wyn Jones - Captain
04. Davies
03. James
02. Hibberd
01. Jenkins

I sometimes wonder if we are too disciplined when I look at us play - Yesterdays game was a classic example - We stand back disciplined whilst SA live on the edge - SA give away 2 penalties in the red zone and we get 6 points - Maybe its a case of SA being very disciplined with their ill discipline. We need to get a little angry, we are such a nice strong clean team to play against.

RubyGuby wrote:I sometimes wonder if we are too disciplined when I look at us play - Yesterdays game was a classic example - We stand back disciplined whilst SA live on the edge - SA give away 2 penalties in the red zone and we get 6 points - Maybe its a case of SA being very disciplined with their ill discipline. We need to get a little angry, we are such a nice strong clean team to play against.

A bit more fire and brimstone, what you suggest above is very much in the clean cut manner displayed by Warburton, not everything is played by numbers and needs emotion and yes, some level of skullduggery, no fluke that our more ferocious performance for a long time was with Jenkins as captain, the team I suggested EARLIER would be led by Wyn Jones.

Dai - A South African friend of mine and ex player txt me 15 minutes before the game yesterday and said "It's going to be brutal and controlled carnage from SA" - We knew this; yet we failed to deal with it, the likes of Liam Williams diving in to tackle in the manner he did is rugby suicide - well meant I'm sure but no control at all and an injury was inevitable. These are basic skills, we need controlled anarchy to break the game up and make the most of our big dynamic back line. SA were just too strong in every department but we need to start taking the game to teams a bit more. And we need to do it before we let in a couple of trys.  

Assuming said players are available, I'm going for something like this:

15. Halfpenny
14. North
13. Allen
12. S.Williams
11. L.Williams
10. Priestland
9. Rh.Williams
8. Faletau
7. Warburton
6. Lydiate
5. AWJ
4. Davies
3. Lee
2. Hibbard
1. Jenkins

Owens, James, Jarvis, Charteris, Tipuric, Phillips, Biggar, Hook.

Our back line is in disarray without Roberts, JD2 and Cuthbert and as is often the case, Wales lack of strength in depth is causing us problems.

Since so much of Wales phase play is based on a line break from 12 why doesn't Gatland bring north in to play there? His distribution is not his strongest skill but he is going to get across the gainline and he is strong defensively.

I also think Priestland is not of the standard required to play 10 for
Wales, he is prone to getting isolated, poor defensively, has a questionable kicking game and i think, fatally for a 10, he has head issues. Biggar thoroughly deserves his chance to stake his claim and i just cannot fathom Gatland's selection.

Were it not for the Lions pack Saturday could have been a rout.

In the circumstances i would go with
Philipps
Biggar
Half
North
Williams S
Williams L
Hook

For me Paul deserves the start. Gethin has to start end off.
Paul was like a wrecking ball yesterday and made such an impact int he loose, he would be up against Ayerza who no current fit tighthead would be able to compete with anyway. All im saying is if Paul plays like he does Saturday then he will make up for it in the loose.
Allan Rolland ruined the scrummaging game yesterday and took the joy out of it, but come next Saturday we wont be able to compete scrum time without Adam and that's the bottom line.
A chose Hook because we don't have many other option left at wing, i wouldn't;t trust Prydie or Amos there yet, for me its the best and only option we have.
Don't see hwy people are dropping Bradley, was arguably one of the bets players on the pitch Saturday, why would any of you drop him?

We competed with SA's scrum (when Andrews was off the pitch), their scrum dominated Argentina's. Aus held their own as well. I don't see why we can't hold them there. Trying route one against Arg isn't the key to victory though.

I've given my selection above. Part of me can see Gats selected Beck at 12 with Williams at 13. I really shudder at the thought. Hand Allen his debut! Wouldn't mind seeing Owen Williams instead though. He looks good enough (and better than Beck).

The Saint wrote:We competed with SA's scrum (when Andrews was off the pitch), their scrum dominated Argentina's. Aus held their own as well. I don't see why we can't hold them there. Trying route one against Arg isn't the key to victory though.

I've given my selection above. Part of me can see Gats selected Beck at 12 with Williams at 13. I really shudder at the thought. Hand Allen his debut! Wouldn't mind seeing Owen Williams instead though. He looks good enough (and better than Beck).

The thing is know a tight head is Adam is out by the seems, Aaron Jarvis still isn't 100% fit, Scott Andrews isn't ready and Gatland prefers Rhodri than Samson. I think if he has to choose between Rhodri or Samson he would definitely choose Rhodri.
I would like to see Samson there to start but it would be a big risk and he is only young, but I think he is Gatlands last resort personally. That's why I think Paul might as well play there because he would do just the same up against Ayerza as either Rhodri or Scott will do and he deserves a start from his performance, Rhodri and Scott seem like the only likely two candidates at the moment for me.
Didn't think Beck was too bad when he came on mind, done the basics well but didn't really get much help from Priestland or Mike with slow ball. Would be interesting to see Cory Allen though i guess

Griff wrote:He was banned for two weeks for kicking Danny Care in the face!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24539685

Could Gatland be using that as a reason?

If true, more strange behaviour from Gatland. Several of his favourites have been carded over the years - Bradley, Mike and of course Warburton - but I don't remember any sanctions. Mike gets the shirt even when he's just been fired by his club for behavioural issues!

Griff wrote:How about Hook at 13? I like a more powerful and abrasive player at 12, and a more creative slippery eel at 13. Hook could play that role nicely, although I appreciate it's probably not a role he's played much lately so there'll be complaints that we're messing him around (I think he's been playing 15 a fair bit for Perp).

I thought Hook looked really good at outside centre when he played there in the Six Nations a few seasons ago. Scored a great try at Twickenham.

Yep, I know Hook likes 10 and does a job at 15 but I've always been happier with him at 13. He's got the vision and ability to create things, a good passing game as he's a 10, is a nightmare to tackle as he's pretty elusive and he's proven he can score tries from that position at international level. Maybe not the strongest defender but perhaps with North outside him he will have a bit of protection. Hook does throw a lot of intercept tries though! I think at 10 you have a lot more time with slower players chasing your pass, whereas at 13 you're likely to be passing in the presence of wingers who are that bit quicker to make the intercept. Just a theory!

So, I would be tempted to go something like:

Rhodri Williams (if we don't experiment at some point we'll never know)
Biggar
Liam Williams/Walker
Scott Williams
Hook
North
Halfpenny

if two wingers been called up then prob see north go centre .hope lee starts too

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Griff wrote:How about Hook at 13? I like a more powerful and abrasive player at 12, and a more creative slippery eel at 13. Hook could play that role nicely, although I appreciate it's probably not a role he's played much lately so there'll be complaints that we're messing him around (I think he's been playing 15 a fair bit for Perp).

I thought Hook looked really good at outside centre when he played there in the Six Nations a few seasons ago. Scored a great try at Twickenham.

That's probably his best position because he doesn't get his hands on the ball that much and when he does he should have some space to work with. Who you pick at 12 is someone who can put him in space, so maybe Scott Williams is the best choice here. However this goes against Wales' game plan a bit so I'm not sure how it will work.

Amos over Prydie in my opinion.

I reckon North will move to the centre with Hook on bench

I actually thought Phillips had a good game - Priestland had plenty of time on occasion with ball in hand but just took the wrong options. I know this is role reversal but I thought Mike had a good game. What we lack behind the scrum is clinical composure and more often or not we choose the wrong option. Foxy made a great break early on, a couple actually and on one occasion he kept hold of the ball and allowed it to be recycled which was ok. However; a chip kick through would have put North in the corner and I just think that these final decisions are costing us. Compare that to when SA chipped through. It's fine lines. I know we were physically beasted but at the end of the day a rag bag back line with Beck, Williams and 1/2p on the wing alongside a depleted front row and a general poor performance all round has lead to a 9 point defeat to a decent SA. This would have been a 50 pointer plus not so long ago. We can and will beat this SA team; of that I have no doubt  

Ruby, we're as fit as any team out there and as physical as most; but fitness and physicality will only get you so far against the very best. We need a cutting edge, and I'm afraid that Howley still isn't producing the goods. He's been there long enough now and have we really seen any development in terms of backline play?

my team for the argies:

1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. James
4. AW Jones
5. B Davies
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Biggar
11. Owen Williams
12. Corey Allen
13. Sc Williams
14. North
15. Halfpenny

16. Jones
17. Owens
18. Samson Lee
19. Charteris
20. Tipuric
21. Rhodri Williams
22. Priestland
23. Hook


Paul James was awesome when he came on, give him a start and ease Samson in.
I'd see how both second rows perform again, tehw eaker coming off around 60mins for Luke.
Tips to come on as soon as the game starts breaking up in the second half along with Rhodri Williams.
Owen Williams/North can provide centre cover.
Halfpenny can move to the wing (scott Williams can cover wing if totally necessary).
Priestland covers 10/15.
Hook covers 10/13/15.

I'd go for Gethin, Hibbard and James in the front row and stick with Bradley D and AWJ in the 2nd, although I'd like Charteris to get more time on the field this time out. No. 8 picks itself. For me, the time has come to get Tipuric on the field, partly for the rugby brains be brings. I would probably keep Lydiate for balance.

Half-backs: R Williams and Biggar. RP was indecisive against SA, and he made some poor mistakes (eg penalty missing touch, 3rd try), although his touch-kicking improved a lot second half.

Centres: Of the available options, looking at who is in the squad, I would go with 12 Scott W, 13 Hook.

Back 3 obviously North and 1/2p, with Liam Williams first Eli Walker second if fit. On no account Hook at FB. Of the rest of the squad, the person I'd be most confident in if LW and EW are both out is Hallam Amos, he looks very secure to me.

Bench: Jones, Owens, Lee, Charteris, Warburton, Phillips, Priestland, whoever is left.

Gatland will never drop Warbs unless he is crocked.

Has Gatland ever dropped Phillips?

He was out the squad for a bit after 'McBouncergate' wasn't he ?

Is Lloyd really any better ?

We both know the answer to that.

This is why I would have Rhodri Williams on the bench against Argentina. Bring him on in the second half along with some fresh forwards and watch him go.

Even though a very dull England managed to beat them its still a tough test for your first cap

Ritchie Rees is the most dynamic 9 at the moment IMO