Wales squad additions and team for Argentina?

by The Saint Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Samson Lee, Rhodri Jones, Hallam Amos and Tom Prydie have been added to the squad and will partake in training this week. Davies and Jones are likely to remain absent for the rest of our matches. So I'm guessing Lee will be in the mix for selection seeing as he would be the form choice. Not so sure about the other 3 or what positions they will be considered for exactly (Is Rhodri a LH or TH? Will Amos/Prydie play at wing or full-back?).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24882510

Given the news, what changes would you make to the Wales 23 for the next test versus Argentina?

by maestegmafia Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:04 pm

[quote="wayne"]

maestegmafia wrote:
wayne wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
wayne wrote:Habana sees Hibbard opposite him, skins him and sets up the first try, Hook has 2 forwards in front of him crabs across field and passes the ball a good 3 yards too early allowing the inside of the 2 SA forwards to drift and an overlap is squandered and a number of you want to select him. What has Lee Byrne done to Gatland? he would have at least straightened the line drew the man and kept the overlap going.
Gatland said Byrne is not being considered for selection when younger options who will play in the world cup are available.[/quote
MM, I don't care what Gatland says, he is playing regularly for the 2nd best team in Europe for the past 3 seasons first Leinster and now Toulon better than them and playing really well, the age thing is a smokescreen, he could be 25 and IMO he wouldn't select him.
Why would you think that?

He was in the welsh squad last year, this year they considered Liam Williams better, younger and more likely to play for Wales in the next world cup.

I can't think of any logical reason why what sounds like a perfectly fair and correct justification for that decision could be considered a smokescreen?[/quote
Maes I'm not getting into an argument with you, I've just been on the WRU website and Adam Jones and Ryan Jones are both 32, Gethin Jenkins will be 33 on Sunday, Lee Byrne was 33 in March and playing for the second best team in Europe and if you think Liam Williams is better than him, I see no point in continuing with this discussion.

No one is arguing...???

I'm just quoting what the management said in interview pre internationals.

by bedfordwelsh Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:31 pm

Latest rumours are that Allen and Biggar will start

by maestegmafia Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:51 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Latest rumours are that Allen and Biggar will start

That is interesting...!!!

The competition for the ten shirt is obviously pretty close.

Allen is a great prospect for the centre.

by bedfordwelsh Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:05 am

I am not a huge fan of Priestland or Biggar but if fit (heard he's injured) I would at the moment pick Biggar.

Sc Williams aside I really have no idea who I would pick in the centre giving our options so why not lets see how Allen goes.

by Guest Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:45 am

RubyGuby wrote:Ritchie Rees is the most dynamic 9 at the moment IMO

Bit late getting back on here, but I agree. If Richie Rees was playing behind a pack with parity (at worst), he would be playing even better too (in my opinion). His performances have been good, living off scraps like he has.

by Guest Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:52 am

I don't think Amos will play at all in the AIs to be honest (not in the Tonga game either). What was interesting, was that the game that the coaches first started talking about him was when we beat the Scarlets and I didn't think Amos had a good game then (didn't hold his depth, whereas if he did he would've got the ball with a bit of space to run into).

I agree that Dan Evans should be getting called up ahead of both though. I guess what doesn't help, is that Dan is only realistically 15 cover, whereas Amos and Prydie can cover all the back three.

by Higher_Ground Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:53 am

Can't see that there will be any dramatic changes outside of direct injury replacements.

Priestland will keep the 10 shirt, Beck will come into the centre to partner Scott Williams, and either Prydie or Amos will start on the Wing.
Paul James will start on the tight head.

by Guest Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:55 am

Very interested to see if Cory Allen does start. I can see why to be honest, as I'm not really sure Beck is really international class. I hope that if it is true that Tipuric is starting, as hopefully it means that we will be a bit more expansive with two 7s in the backrow.

Interesting to see Howley speak about George North too. Whilst North could maybe come looking for the ball a bit, he also can't really shine with the way Wales played last Saturday (which is mostly Howley's tactics).

by Higher_Ground Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:57 am

Higher_Ground wrote:Can't see that there will be any dramatic changes outside of direct injury replacements.

Priestland will keep the 10 shirt, Beck will come into the centre to partner Scott Williams, and either Prydie or Amos will start on the Wing.
Paul James will start on the tight head.

Although I could be wrong. Just read the Walesonline piece. They're usually pretty clued up.
Would be a VERY unusual step for this management team to admit they got selection wrong. An Admirable step though.

by bedfordwelsh Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:57 am

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-tipped-hand-blues-6302468

Never know how to believe what these guys print but hear you go.

by munkian Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:01 am

Yeah, bit cruel to slag him when no one is getting decent ball

by jimmyinthewell68 Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:10 am

James hibbard Jenkins
bradley AW J
Lydiate falu warburton
Philips
priestland (biggar)
north
s .Williams _
beck ( hook , allen . BOD )
tom prydie ( amos )
halfpenny

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:28 am

Changing personnel won't make much difference unless there's some tweaking of the gameplan too.

by munkian Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:47 am

True dat. Gwyn Jones is pleading for some heads up rugby

by Seagultaf Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:26 am

I suspect it was always the plan to give some squad players a game against Argentina and Tonga, with the strongest sides picked against SA and Aus. Injuries look to have interrupted that plan, but at 10 there is little between Priestland and Biggar, so a bit or rotation will not unduly weaken the side. I would be a little surprised to see Cory Allen picked at 13, from what I have seen of Cardiff this season, Owen Williams is the better 13. I suspect both would be better than Beck who is an out and out 12 and although very skilful, since bulking himself up looks very ponderous.

The big surprise for me would be Rhodri Jones being picked at 3. He always looked a very promising loose head and is very mobile, but has struggled in the transition to tighthead and is behind the younger Samson Lee and the experienced Adrianse at the Scarlet's. He plays most of his rugby these days for the semi-pro Llanelli RFC side. I am not sure what Lee had done to the Welsh Management but he really seems to be out of favour. At Regional level, he has been the best Welsh qualified tight head this season by far, better even than Adam Jones, who at present seems to be struggling with the new laws.

Jenkins will play at tight head despite James being the better player because its his 100th cap and the WRU needs bums on seats.

For what its worth I would pick:

Halfpenny, Liam Williams (Prydie), North, Owen Williams, Scott Williams, Priestland, Phillips, James, Hibbard, Lee, Alan Wyn Jones, Charteris, Lydiate, Faletau, Warburton.
Bench, Owen, Jenkins, Jarvis, Davies, Tipuric, Rhodri Williams, Biggar.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:29 am

Seagultaf wrote:The big surprise for me would be Rhodri Jones being picked at 3. He always looked a very promising loose head and is very mobile, but has struggled in the transition to tighthead and is behind the younger Samson Lee and the experienced Adrianse at the Scarlet's. He plays most of his rugby these days for the semi-pro Llanelli RFC side. I am not sure what Lee had done to the Welsh Management but he really seems to be out of favour. At Regional level, he has been the best Welsh qualified tight head this season by far

It's a strange one alright. I agree with you about Ashley Beck too, he seems to have gone off the boil.

by The Saint Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:09 pm

Team should have been announced at 1.

by Guest Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:10 pm

WALES TEAM v ARGENTINA

Leigh Halfpenny (Blues), George North (Northampton Saints), Cory Allen (Blues), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Unattached), Gethin Jenkins (Blues), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (Blues – CAPT), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Toby Faletau (Dragons).

Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Paul James (Bath), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Blues), James Hook (Perpignan), Ashley Beck (Ospreys).

Bit harsh on Lydiate to drop completely out of the squad, as although Jones covers 4/5/6 and 8, that didn't matter when Tipuric was on the bench last week. Hope Samson Lee gets a good opportunity to show Gatland etc what they are clearly not seeing.

by Guest Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:11 pm

It seems Lydiate is injured too

"For Cory (Allen) it will be his first taste of international rugby and for Rhodri (Jones) a chance to gain more experience. Justin (Tipuric) played very well off the bench last weekend and Dan’s injury gives him the chance to start the game."

Rhodri Jones a chance to gain more experience? What about rewarding Lee's form and giving him the chance to gain more experience too?

by maestegmafia Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:11 pm

Teams out

Looks good

Rhodri Jones is a surprise but the coaches rate him highly and they are right about players more often than not...!

Cory Allen deserves this debut. Great player.

by The Saint Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:11 pm

Maes was right. RP has been dropped.

Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Blues); George North (Northampton Saints), Cory Allen (Blues), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Liam Williams (Scarlets); Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (unattached); Gethin Jenkins (Blues), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (Blues, capt), Toby Faletau (Dragons), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys).

Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Paul James (Bath), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Blues), James Hook (Perpignan), Ashley Beck (Ospreys).

by Guest Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:11 pm

Looks like a good team, sad to see Lydiate dropped from the 23. Interesting to see how the new guys get on. I hope theyre not resting RP for Australia

by bedfordwelsh Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:12 pm

From the WRU website:

Leigh Halfpenny (Blues), George North (Northampton Saints), Cory Allen (Blues), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Unattached), Gethin Jenkins (Blues), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (Blues - CAPT), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Toby Faletau (Dragons).

Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Paul James (Bath), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Blues), James Hook (Perpignan), Ashley Beck (Ospreys).

Quite happy with that myself, I would have started Lee instead of Jones and god knows why Ll Williams on the bench but good to see R Jones on there.

Priestland and Lydiate out of squad altogether, hope its just rotation on Dans part.

by The Saint Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:13 pm

Starting a LH at TH who has been playing premiership rugby? Against Argentina? What a massive blunder.

Nice to see Ryan Jones back anyway, would have preferred Rhodri Williams on the bench instead though.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:14 pm

So Hook's our back-three cover again. Rolling Eyes

by bedfordwelsh Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:15 pm

In Priestlands case I didn't expect to see him on the bench in much the same way Biggar wasn't on the bench last week, they think Hook gives them more all round cover.

As for Lydiate hope its case of resting him and the chance to give Ryan a run out. Be good to see how the Warbs/Tips combination goes again.

by bedfordwelsh Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:16 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:So Hook's our back-three cover again.

Guess so, can't see why they don't put Priestland/Biaggar and Hook on the bench but they don't seem to like doing that.

by bedfordwelsh Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:17 pm

Also congratulations to two players at opposite ends of their career, Jenkins 100 caps Allen first cap.

Pob Luc to both

by Guest Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:17 pm

"Gatland: "At 10 the plan was to play one in the first game and one in the second. We will look at Hook next week and then make a decision on the Australia game.

"Rhodri has been training really well. We have been impressed with him. Scott Andrews is injured so again its a chance for a youngster.

"Dan Lydiate has an injury so Sam can play at 6 and that gives us the strong back row that played against England. Dan should be back next week."

by bedfordwelsh Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:20 pm

Risca Rev wrote:"Gatland: "At 10 the plan was to play one in the first game and one in the second. We will look at Hook next week and then make a decision on the Australia game.

"Rhodri has been training really well. We have been impressed with him. Scott Andrews is injured so again its a chance for a youngster.

"Dan Lydiate has an injury so Sam can play at 6 and that gives us the strong back row that played against England. Dan should be back next week."

That's all good news and seems logical then Rev, though like said would have started Lee at tighthead but what do I know. Gatland has made more right than wrong choices in his tenure so I am happy to trust him on this one.

by Guest Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:23 pm

Warren Gatland wrote:"With Jonathan being injured we are looking for cover in the centre.

"It’s a chance for a young guy to develop at centre and for us a chance to get some depth there."

At 10 the plan was to play one in the first game and one in the second. We will look at Hook next week and then make a decision on the Australia game.

"Rhodri has been training really well. We have been impressed with him. Scott Andrews is injured so again its a chance for a youngster.

"Dan Lydiate has an injury so Sam can play at 6 and that gives us the strong back row that played against England. Dan should be back next week."

Gethin had a phenomenal game last week.

"The way he works is amazing, he’s a leader on the park and his body is holding well. He’s dropped 5kg and he looks fit and has been training hard. It’s a great milestone for a great servant of Welsh rugby

"I’m not looking for a reaction. We are disappointed but the effort of the players was excellent.

"We created opportunities but didn’t finish them off. We have to make sure our lines of support are better and encourage the players to play the team in front of them.

"We don’t want to inhibit them. When Rhys Priestland ran the ball from behind his own line that was really exciting. We want the players to express themselves."

"The referee said he’d never refereed a game with such ferocity at the breakdown. We have to improve from that and finish the chances we create.

"If you look at what we have worked on with the lines of support, they are not being positive enough. Southern Hemisphere teams are more positive."

"Those fine margins will take us to the top level. That extra 1 per cent will make all the difference."

"It’s almost a catch 22 because at our best we can compete with any team but injuries mean we are not quite there.

"Giving players experience for the World Cup is important, so this is our chance to give some players on the edge some experience."

"England started well against Argentina. We have to match that. A huge positive for us has been dominating in the air but against South Africa it didn’t happen."We can’t get too hung up about it.

"This time, driven lineouts will be a big challenge as will the ball in the air. If we get posession and retain it, we have to exploit that."

by Guest Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:24 pm

Sam Warburton wrote:"I will play 6 and Justin 7. This week I’ve been learning the blindside calls and its easier for Justin to slot in. He’s a great option in the loose but we will miss Dan’s prowess in defence.

"I love playing with Justin and Toby and Dan."

"I was delighted for Cory Allen. He’s very silky. He’s got great hands and he will handle the big stage on Saturday. I expect him to do some great things. It’s great for the Blues to have him to replace Jamie Roberts, now he can do the same for Wales."

by bedfordwelsh Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:28 pm

I think its a good selection not to many changes:

2 in the backs 1 through injury, a chance to develop

1 in back row again through injury but its not an untried trio

2nd row same

Front row 1 change again through injury with a chance to develop

by Guest Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:29 pm

The old classic "so and so has been training well this week" though steam

It's fair to say we have two better scrummaging props to come on (in my opinion).

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:32 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
Warren Gatland wrote:"I’m not looking for a reaction. We are disappointed but the effort of the players was excellent.

"We created opportunities but didn’t finish them off. We have to make sure our lines of support are better and encourage the players to play the team in front of them.

"We don’t want to inhibit them. When Rhys Priestland ran the ball from behind his own line that was really exciting. We want the players to express themselves."

"The referee said he’d never refereed a game with such ferocity at the breakdown. We have to improve from that and finish the chances we create.

"If you look at what we have worked on with the lines of support, they are not being positive enough. Southern Hemisphere teams are more positive."

"Those fine margins will take us to the top level. That extra 1 per cent will make all the difference."

I like a lot of what he says there. I might have been too harsh on him (sorry, Warren). Looks like they are given licence to play, but they're just taking the wrong options.

by bedfordwelsh Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:32 pm

Risca Rev wrote:The old classic "so and so has been training well this week" though

It's fair to say we have two better scrummaging props to come on (in my opinion).

You're right Rev, I would have started James and Lee Hug

by ScarletSpiderman Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:38 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:The old classic "so and so has been training well this week" though

It's fair to say we have two better scrummaging props to come on (in my opinion).
You're right Rev, I would have started James and Lee

+1

Maybe it is a tactic, let them get used to us having soft-ish scrums and then swap the boy around at around 50-60 mins and then pummel them in the scrums and win pen tries?

by BlueNote Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:43 pm

Rhodri Jones - it's a very brave call to put such an inexperienced guy in a key position against a nation renowned for its scrummaging. He doesn't look like a tight-head to me, not squat and compact like Adam Jones or Samson Lee. There's obviosuly something about him that's impressing the coaches, though. I hope that one works out.

by irnbrew Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:48 pm

for what it is worth i was told yesterday that Lydiate had not trained all week and was in a boot and had scans on Monday so iknew he would not be in the squad

by bedfordwelsh Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:54 pm

irnbrew,

I don't think its a bad thing even if he wasn't injured, people have been saying Warbs and Tips should play so this is a good chance to see it again with added advantage of R Jones to come off the bench if need be.

by butterfingers Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:58 pm

Is Gatland getting some positive feedback for his team here?

From what I see dropping RP was a must, Tipuric seems the best backrower in your squad most times I see him, and Cory Allen is similar to Jamie Roberts, well except he can shift AND actually play rugby.

I rewatched our game against Argentina, and scrum aside they seem a touch softer up front than last year. They tackled more percentagely than dominant (low, knee height) which allowed for the return to feet and carry on lots of times.

Wales strength is to keep ball and force points, a tactic that will do well against Argentina, their back 3 were sharp but not that clued up, they'll make mistakes.

Play in their half, make them play from deep and defend their maul/hold their scrum and you should go well, be brave ball in hand, attack the fringes but send runners in from wider too, use North and Allen in the 3/4's for good gains.

Wales should win this, don't change tactics too radically, just play them at the fringes instead of head on ala SA.

If Wales try to play coast to coast they'll struggle, and if they play straight on they'll struggle, the key to beating teams like this is error count, keep it low and you win. Somehow in recent months/years there always seems to an individual willing to make the absolute howler ala RP.

PS if Hook gets on the park I pity Welsh fans, he literally has no idea whats going on.

by Guest Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:00 pm

irnbrew wrote:for what it is worth i was told yesterday that Lydiate had not trained all week and was in a boot and had scans on Monday so iknew he would not be in the squad

As soon as I read on the Fail website that Lydiate has an ankle inury, I was hoping it wasn't the same one he had issues with before (before Ireland RWC 11 etc).

by The Saint Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:06 pm

Let the doctors at Racing deal with it, get him all fixed up for Wales duty again in the near future Smile

. Hopefully he'll be back for the 6 Nations so we can see him take down Ireland again.

by jimmyinthewell68 Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:09 pm

i like lydiate but it be nice seeing the warburton / tips combo again

by maestegmafia Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:31 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:From the WRU website:

Leigh Halfpenny (Blues), George North (Northampton Saints), Cory Allen (Blues), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Unattached), Gethin Jenkins (Blues), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (Blues - CAPT), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Toby Faletau (Dragons).

Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Paul James (Bath), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Blues), James Hook (Perpignan), Ashley Beck (Ospreys).

Quite happy with that myself, I would have started Lee instead of Jones and god knows why Ll Williams on the bench but good to see R Jones on there.

Priestland and Lydiate out of squad altogether, hope its just rotation on Dans part.

RP and Biggar were always going to be given a game each. The management said so pre AIs. Same goes for rotating Warburton, Lydiate and Tipuric.

by munkian Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:38 pm

Tips at 13 and Geth at 10 for Tonga, you knows it !

by Guest Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:42 pm

munkian wrote:Tips at 13 and Geth at 10 for Tonga, you knows it !

Hook is definitely ten for Tonga, so I think that must mean Melonhead at 12 <bosh>

by maestegmafia Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:48 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
munkian wrote:Tips at 13 and Geth at 10 for Tonga, you knows it !
Hook is definitely ten for Tonga, so I think that must mean Melonhead at 12 <bosh>

Second fastest Prop/Inside centre in the history of rugby..

by jimmyinthewell68 Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:53 pm

Adam was going on the wing until is injury

by munkian Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:54 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
munkian wrote:Tips at 13 and Geth at 10 for Tonga, you knows it !
Hook is definitely ten for Tonga, so I think that must mean Melonhead at 12 <bosh>
Second fastest Prop/Inside centre in the history of rugby..

Absolutely mirked ROG laughing

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