Wales squad additions and team for Argentina?

First topic message reminder :

Samson Lee, Rhodri Jones, Hallam Amos and Tom Prydie have been added to the squad and will partake in training this week. Davies and Jones are likely to remain absent for the rest of our matches. So I'm guessing Lee will be in the mix for selection seeing as he would be the form choice. Not so sure about the other 3 or what positions they will be considered for exactly (Is Rhodri a LH or TH? Will Amos/Prydie play at wing or full-back?).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24882510

Given the news, what changes would you make to the Wales 23 for the next test versus Argentina?

maestegmafia wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

munkian wrote:Tips at 13 and Geth at 10 for Tonga, you knows it !

Hook is definitely ten for Tonga, so I think that must mean Melonhead at 12 <bosh>

Second fastest Prop/Inside centre in the history of rugby..

 

Yeah, he'll have to go some to take Gibbsy's title

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:Adam was going on the wing until is injury

George North has been the scrum machine that the welsh and lions pack have trained against for the last few seasons.

I guess it is only fair that they try and give Adam a go out wide...!

Maybe we will see a welsh scrum with George vs the entire opposition pack...??? Not sure if a one vs eight man scrum is allowed in the laws or not...?

Why is Rhodri starting?

It just doesn't make sense, he goes on about the Rabo not being competitive enough then picks Rhodri who has played in the Premiership all season with 1 start last week in the LV.
He is third choice at the Scarlets' he is a great prop around the park with some potential but he is putting him up against probably the best loosehead scrummager in the World. He is going to get destroyed which isn't going to help his development at all.
Samson has been great all season and i don't understand why gats doesn't like him (i hope he isn't going to be another hook). I hope Samson get's the chance to come on and do something. I don't think we will be in good at scrum time anyway because Adam joins is probably the only tighthead in world rugby who could match Ayerza but i think Samson would have a better chance.
Apart from that though i'm pretty happy with the team. Hope Cory gets to show what he is capable off  
Really harsh on Paul as well i thought he deserves it after last weeks impact.

Jhamer25 wrote:Why is Rhodri starting?

It just doesn't make sense, he goes on about the Rabo not being competitive enough then picks Rhodri who has played in the Premiership all season with 1 start last week in the LV.
He is third choice at the Scarlets' he is a great prop  around the park with some potential but he is putting him up against probably the best loosehead scrummager in the World.  He is going to get destroyed which isn't going to help his development at all.
Samson has been great all season and i don't understand why gats doesn't like him (i hope he isn't going to be another hook). I hope Samson get's the chance to come on and do something. I don't think we will be in good at scrum time anyway because Adam joins is probably the only tighthead in world rugby who could match Ayerza but i think Samson would have a better chance.
Apart from that though i'm pretty happy with the team. Hope Cory gets to show what he is capable off  
Really harsh on Paul as well i thought he deserves it after last weeks impact.

Gatland said the welsh coaches rates Rhodri Jones very highly and doesn't understand why the Scarlets coaches constantly overlook him.

He has praised Sampson Lee plenty of times but Lee is very young. Considering what Gatland says about the intensity of the RP12 vs International rugby it's not a huge surprise that Lee's good form has been overlooked. If Lee had not have received the dodgy ban and missed the GEC match he may well have been able to prove his worth.

I am sure Lee is targeted as the most natural successor to Adam jones but realistically he is fourth or fifth in the pecking order due to not having proved himself at a decent level like those ahead of him. Rhodri has had plenty of time in the welsh squad, Lee hasn't.

With regards Lee vs Jones, I would imagine Gatland and Co favour Jones' fitness levels. If Lee started and ran outta energy after thirty minutes we'd be buggered.

But with Jones starting and Lee coming off the bench at 60 mins we loose little, if anything we gain a lot more set piece power.

I think that the decisions made by the coaches make a great deal of common sense.

Jhamer25 wrote:Why is Rhodri starting?

It just doesn't make sense, he goes on about the Rabo not being competitive enough then picks Rhodri who has played in the Premiership all season with 1 start last week in the LV.
He is third Fourth (Lee, Adriaanse, Manu, Rhodri) choice at the Scarlets' he is a great prop  around the park with some potential but he is putting him up against probably the best loosehead scrummager in the World.  He is going to get destroyed which isn't going to help his development at all.
Samson has been great all season and i don't understand why gats doesn't like him (i hope he isn't going to be another hook). I hope Samson get's the chance to come on and do something. I don't think we will be in good at scrum time anyway because Adam joins is probably the only tighthead in world rugby who could match Ayerza but i think Samson would have a better chance.
Apart from that though i'm pretty happy with the team. Hope Cory gets to show what he is capable off  
Really harsh on Paul as well i thought he deserves it after last weeks impact.

Fixed that for you.

I find it worrying that Danny Wilson says that he is making a bit of progress at tighthead, but is still not a feasible option there as when he tires he tend to revert back to loosehead tactics, but McBryde (or is it Gats) things he is up to scratch with, like you said, no game time in the Rabo or HEC under his belt.

Also going by how Samson and Adam have performed since the new scrummaging laws came in, I would argue that Samson is probably the better of the two at the moment.

Maes -: the Scarlets coaches have said that Rhodri needs to work on his scrum work at tighthead, as he falls back to loosehead techniques and tactics when he tires. They reckon he is progressing slowly but not quite up to the grade required by us yet.

It's a bit weird, it's not like taking a punt on someone on the right wing. If he's not up to the job, we're up the proverbial creek. Why take such a risk?

BlueNote wrote:It's a bit weird, it's not like taking a punt on someone on the right wing.  If he's not up to the job, we're up the proverbial creek.  Why take such a risk?

Because it's only Argentina. They're rubbish at scrummaging.  

makes no sense what so ever i know samson is young but so is Rhodri. The decision to star him ahead of samson or phil makes no sense to me what so ever.

against Argentina, he is up against the best which is hardly fair form going to welsh premiership looseheads to the best in the business.
Good luck to him, i hope he does well and i will be supporting him but it's going to be a miracle if he can hold his own.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Maes -: the Scarlets coaches have said that Rhodri needs to work on his scrum work at tighthead, as he falls back to loosehead techniques and tactics when he tires.  They reckon he is progressing slowly but not quite up to the grade required by us yet.

I read as much.

I think it's a catch 22 of horses for courses, though the best scenario is likely the current one. Lee and Jones are playing regular rugby. The rugby they are playing will strengthen their weaknesses.

In a season or two's time Scarlets will have a couple of excellent Tightheads both pushing for the three shirt.

I am sure Gatland would rather see Jones bench share the three shirt at the Scarlets this season but I think Easterby and co are correct to give him game time for Llanelli.

Is he though ? Its not their old gnarly front row that they are known for is it ?

perhaps he doesn't want to start lee , there might be French club scouts ready to pounce

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:perhaps he doesn't want to start lee , there might be French club scouts ready to pounce

It's only a matter of time...!

I think it's wise and fair on the player to give Lee the opportunity to enter the game from the bench and prove he has star quality. It is a huge ask to select such a young player to start, and I say that knowing full well how has played over the last two years and of his obvious potential.

I've come up with a radical idea to counter SA, we're touring there before the RWC aren't we?

Hopefully with all players fit the pack;
1. Jenkins 2. Hibbard 3. Jones
4. Davies 5. Charteris
6. AWJ 8. R.Jones 7. Warburton

Bench; Owens, Gill, Lee, Evans, Faletau.

SAINT Will Jenkins, A Jones, R Jones. Still be a round for the RWC?

majesticimperialman wrote:SAINT Will Jenkins, A Jones, R Jones. Still be a round for the RWC?

Madge you could look up their ages and work it out yourself...!

Try a website like Wikipedia...! They will have most of the answers for you.

maestegmafia wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:SAINT Will Jenkins, A Jones, R Jones. Still be a round for the RWC?

Madge you could look up their ages and work it out yourself...!

Try a website like Wikipedia...! They will have most of the answers for you.

It's a subjective answer though, isn't it? Wikipedia might tell you the correct ages (well, it might ) but that doesn't answer his question.

munkian wrote:Is he though ? Its not their old gnarly front row that they are known for is it  ?

Hi Munkian

Sorry mate. Missed your post. Is this in reference to Sampson Lee?

[quote="majesticimperialman"]SAINT Will Jenkins, A Jones, R Jones.

They will still be a round for the RWC.

The Saint wrote:I've come up with a radical idea to counter SA, we're touring there before the RWC aren't we?

Hopefully with all players fit the pack;
1. Jenkins 2. Hibbard 3. Jones
4. Davies 5. Charteris
6. AWJ 8. R.Jones 7. Warburton

Bench; Owens, Gill, Lee, Evans, Faletau.

Not a daft idea size vs size, maybe James to replace Jenkins. Wales need more grunt against SA as we know our 6N team will not win, as results prove.

James isn't heavier than Jenkins, despite Geth apparently losing 5kg. It's no wonder he looked small stood next to the South Africans. Also I think we lose somebody who is very efficient at the breakdown if you swap them around plus I think Gill has more potential. With that in mind, some may prefer to start with Faletau. AWJ doesn't seem to get much praise but he is good at getting the turnovers.

James hasn't been so hot for Bath this year.

maestegmafia wrote:I think it's wise and fair on the player to give Lee the opportunity to enter the game from the bench and prove he has star quality. It is a huge ask to select such a young player to start

So Rhodri Jones is just cannon fodder? If it's unfair to start Lee against the Pumas, how can it be fair to start someone who's been playing Premiership rugby?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I think it's wise and fair on the player to give Lee the opportunity to enter the game from the bench and prove he has star quality. It is a huge ask to select such a young player to start

So Rhodri Jones is just cannon fodder? If it's unfair to start Lee against the Pumas, how can it be fair to start someone who's been playing Premiership rugby?

LP mate

God knows..???? We have Adam Jones Craig Mitchell Aaron Jarvis all unavailable. It's not exactly an ideal situation.

But I can see the logic in using Sampson as an impact player more than starting him and him not lasting the first half leaving us fully buggered.

We may well see James covering TH for the last ten minutes this week too if these lads get a torrid time.

Fingers crossed for Rhodri Jones, anyway. I thought he was promising enough as a loosehead, but there must have been a reason they switched him.

I think we're bloody daft. I don't know many other countries that take a player who could have been very good in his chosen position and tell them that they'd be better off playing in another, Hook is a good example. But it seems to me that we really love doing it with props. We've tried this with Yapp, didn’t work. We tried it with Jenkins, didn't work. I've been told that Scott Andrews was a loosehead and was "encourage" to switch over, if it’s true he isn’t doing well. Now we've got this young lad who two years ago came on and did a job for a few games at regional level and had all the ability to do well regionally and potentially internationally at loosehead and some bright spark thinks "You could play tighthead." It's an awful position and it is not easy to play. We need to stop it and try to develop real tighthead props like Samson Lee.

Coleman it works two ways, Tom Youngs was a Lions hooker this summer who was formerly a centre, Jonah Lomu was a lock at schoolboy level.

All nations spot players and suggest that some change to a different position. Rhodri Jones problems on loosehead or Tighthead have been with his scrummaging ability. He hasn't succeeded on either side of the scrum.

But was Tom ever going to be a Lions centre? With Jonah it was at school boy level. Rhodri was on a pro contract and had finished playing U-20's when this choice was made. This belief people have that 1 and 3 are the same position is a joke.

Exactly, it was noticed Tom Youngs would be a good hooker so they moved him.

These things happen and they often work. I think Hook is a good example of this working. In Hook we have a lad who has played many tests in four backline positions making him almost undroppable.

maestegmafia wrote:Exactly, it was noticed Tom Youngs would be a good hooker so they moved him.

These things happen and they often work. I think Hook is a good example of this working. In Hook we have a lad who has played many tests in four backline positions making him almost undroppable.

Undroppable from the bench, maybe, but he doesn't play rugby to warm the bench.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Exactly, it was noticed Tom Youngs would be a good hooker so they moved him.

These things happen and they often work. I think Hook is a good example of this working. In Hook we have a lad who has played many tests in four backline positions making him almost undroppable.

Undroppable from the bench, maybe, but he doesn't play rugby to warm the bench.

He is the perfect bench player, we are very lucky to have him.


Hook apparently gets a shot as flyhalf vs tonga

Rhodri Jones was a very promising young loose head, powerful scrumager and good in the loose and certainly had the look future international. Since being converted to tight head he had been injured and his form has propped away to the extent he is probably 4th choice tight head at his club and currently plays his rugby for their semi pro side.

I can understand the desire to create a replacement for Adam Jones, but Wales now have Mitchell, Jarvis and Lee. All better tightheads than Jones, so why now select him for Wales?

As for Hook, he is a guy with all of the skills for a top no10 apart from the most important, the top 6 inches! He has moved positions in an attempt to find somewhere he can use his undoubted talents but where his flakeyness won't cost you the game!

I have a feeling that Samson Lee will be starting against Tonga, I think at this stage they are just trying out various options and experimenting.

IronMike wrote:I have a feeling that Samson Lee will be starting against Tonga, I think at this stage they are just trying out various options and experimenting.

I hope so too. I am glad that the management are being cautious at introducing him at this level. He had looked like a precious talent from a young afe

maestegmafia wrote:

munkian wrote:Is he though ? Its not their old gnarly front row that they are known for is it  ?

Hi Munkian

Sorry mate. Missed your post. Is this in reference to Sampson Lee?

I meant are the Pumas still THAT scary in the scrum department ? They didn't exactly tear through England.

And Lee won't go to France, too ugly

I think Adam and Gethin are as likely to still be around for the RWC as Corbs and Mako - they are both rather injury prone at a much younger age

Samson shouldn't be going anywhere for the next four years as he just signed a five year contract at the end of last season (well unless we sell him like we did with George).

Understand that he is young, however he is doing a job at Rabo and HEC level this season, so he is obviously physically up to the job. Hopefully he will come on with enough game time left for him to make a mark.

munkian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

munkian wrote:Is he though ? Its not their old gnarly front row that they are known for is it  ?

Hi Munkian

Sorry mate. Missed your post. Is this in reference to Sampson Lee?

I meant are the Pumas still THAT scary in the scrum department ? They didn't exactly tear through England.

And Lee won't go to France, too ugly

Ha ha ha...!

I haven't seen the England VS Argentina game yet..!

It was what they call a game of two halves, Maes.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It was what they call a game of two halves, Maes.

I've only just returned home from holidays so I'm only now watching the Wales vs Sa match. The others are to follow.

First half watched of last weeks game and we played scrappy rugby, poor defending conceding the first two tries and we looked very un composed. That said, we did very well with two of our best players injured early enough in the match and so many changes to the back line.

We really need to work on our maul and defending against mauls though