Where now?

THIS IS A LENGTHY POST FOLKS, give it a miss if in work.

I pose this question, at the end of what has been quite a disappointing season for the Ospreys.
A large number of players are leaving, or have left, Holah,Collins,Hook, Henson, Byrne, Spratt, Nutbrown, Mitchell, Breeze, Flanagan, Phillips, McAnierney and Ben Lewis, that's 13 players to date, 7 of those are of international quality = half the team!

However the one departure I'm most concerned about is the loss of Filo Tiatia.This was an unheralded arrival, the guy was around 34 then, and very few of us fans expected him to make much of a mark on the team. How wrong we were!

Over the last two years he gradually moved into coaching, starting with the younger players where he was a huge hit, before ending his playing days just one cap short of 100 and moving into a full time job. My information is that he has been a real hit with both the other coaches and players. For me he has to be the biggest loss of them all, made all the more bizzare by his recent statements about how much his daughters, two born in Wales, felt at home here more so than anywhere else. His departure is maybe a pointer to SOME of the problems at the liberty.

There have been various theories put forward, some by the management and mostly spurious, but others by the pundits. One has said that the Ospreys are too paranoid, and think that the world is against them, while another has said that they have failed to give youth it's head. Both are dyed in the wool Scarlets. Yet another has called for Holley to go, but I've always understood that Holley is/was the defence coach, and as we saw last Saturday there is little wrong with the defence. As for failing to give youth it's head, that to me is nothing more than childish, probably the most well known youngster to be "given his head" was James Hook closely followed by Dan Biggar, and if pushed i could give a list as long as any other regions of players who have come through from within the O's academy.

So the "galactico's are leaving, but do they deserve that title? The facts, when scrutinised, don't bear that tag out.
Look at the team, Adam Jones probably amongst the top three TH's in world rugby took years to get to his exhalted position, our hookers are behind Matthew Rees by some distance, the LH's are good but not world class while at lock we have AWJ captain, Gough and Ian Evans. Here it makes sense to compare, and the best locks in recent times have to be John Eales, Johnson,Matfield, POC it becomes clear that none of the O's locks even get close to that standard. Again in the backrow apart from Collins, Holah Tiatia our players have been no more than decent to good, certainly not world class.At 9 we have had Marshall and Phillips both considered to be excellant exponents of their art, but Marshall was already a spent force when he arrived from Leeds and Phillips has seen his form dip alarmingly. In the backline there is a case to be put for the "stella" tag, Shane williams, IRB player of the year two years ago, Tommy Bowe, Lee Byrne, James Hook and Gavin Henson. But on closer examination, Bowe when he arrived at the Liberty couldn't get into the Irish team even being the highest try scorer, Byrne shone for a brief period before his star waned, Gavin Henson looked to TV for his goodies while James Hook struggled to hold down one position for either the Ospreys or Wales. And of course, it's been these same players who have served such dire fare for the national team on so many ocassions.

Times are a'changing down at the Liberty Stadium, the old guard are off and from now on the team will have to rely on some less well known faces AND some very young ones too. My definite information is that there is but one more signing to be made, ON THE PLAYING FRONT, but the persistant rumour remains about the possible recruitment of Steve Hansen after the world cup , and it's that possibility that may have brought about the departure of Filo and those players who are announced as leaving. Hansen, Johnson and Hore did the same thing with Wales, is the triumvirate soon to reform?

Three weeks ago I was firmly resolved to renew my season ticket in the East Stand, but after that poor performance, I'll freely admit I did waver for a time. We didn't reach the heights of previous seasons, no Heineken quarter final place, no Magners final and although doing well in the low level LV= the system in that tourny meant that the better teams could miss out and we did. BUT, we did finish higher than any other Welsh region and we had a few famous victories along the way, so for me it's not all doom and gloom, the new season, hugely affected by the world cup, will loom be on us soon enough and I for one look forward with anticipation.

your right,,,,,,,,it was lenghty

Just on 606 and they guys on there were calling to get shot of the management team, a vote on the Opsreys forum that was withdrawn with around 160 to 10 to sack the coaches. I think the supporters are correct, why pick Bennett, he can't hit the side of a barn door, R Jones after playing 4, they put him at 6 then move him to the second row to replace Gough and 5 minutes latter take Ryan off and replace him with JT. What is going on I can understand taking Gough off (I would not of started him) but moving the best No 8 to second row is a waste and screwing up his Wales chances.

Hook should have started at 10, Biggar should sit on the sidelines and learn don't kick the ball away!

The Ospreys have gone backwards since Lyn Jones left but Lynn Howells is looking for a job, he can't mess it up any more than the current coaches (he moved Ryan from second row to the back row).

In forums all over the internet there are "fans" calling for the coaching team to go.

De ja vu. yes we've been here before, and from what I've seen it's the same crew calling for various coaches to get sacked. Problem is that I'm not sure they are all fans.

Knee jerk reactions are never the best and IF anything is to happen, then it should only be after considered reflection with all the facts to hand. The coaching team have clearly signalled their intentions by allowing so many high profile players to depart and by emphasising the need to use the academy more.
With that in mind should we not give them time? This isn't the football game where the coach goes after three losses, building a team does take time.
One more season, surely not too much to ask.

And to those on the other boards can we all refrain from calling for Ruddock, Dean Richards, Jake White etc?

Just to let you know - the official Ospreys supporters club retweeted this article for you!

Latest news guys is that Holley is going nowhere, and as forecast Nutbrown is also off.
On other sites there are plenty of non-Osprey fans telling the world that they o's should get rid of all and sundry, one even suggested that the ticket prices for u16's should be reduced to a pound! I have news for that guy, if you buy a season ticket for yourself and your lad/lass they get theirs for NOTHING.
Yet another has said that the overpaid players like Holah and Collins should go, this guy can't even be a rugby fan.

Look for more to be on their way out of the Liberty, and later for another to come in.

Horrendous queues at the liberty today, but thankfully they were mostly for playoff final tickets for the Swans, got my season ticket and free shirt!!!

Not all bad news, Nutbrown off. I have just registered on the Osprey forum, it is not only non Ospreys fans calling for heads to roll, mainly Holley and Humphries.

Ospreylian that's a fantastic post to open up a debate.

Firstly with regards to players leaving.
Hook and Henson have both stated they want to be a fly half, neither of them has been consistent when given oppertunities. Secondly both players really needed a change of scene to advance as players and get them out of their comfort zone.
We have Adam Jones, Wales BEST tight head prop, we really don't need the second best one too. Mitchell needs first team rugby and a good wage and he cant get them at the Ospreys.
Jerry Collins has looked very lazy this season, he drifts in and out of games. He gets the ball bares his teeth, roars and charges into the opposition, then you wont see him for 3-4 minutes because he's trying to hide in the shuffle. For what money he wanted to stay we were better off letting him go to the less physical Japanese rugby.
Bryne and Phillips have never really fitted into the Ospreys since coming from the Scarlets. Both have egos, both think their gods gift to rugby, and both haven't been on form for 2 seasons! Both are also rumoured to be very disruptive within the squad. Them leaving is a positive for team spirit. Webb looks a future talent and needs rugby.
Nutbrown is another who's leaving, we have seen NOTHING of his supposed talent, he's had bad luck but the financial investment against the playing return has been terrible.
I agree TiaTia is a loss, but he needs to broaden his horizons and step up to a higher level of responsibility. I think he will come back one day, but he needs to learn first.

The Ospreys have the best academy in Wales by a mile. Gwent like it's mines have been sucked bare, the area is full of benefit scrounging chavs with no future, and few rugby players.
Cardiff is worthless and only Pontypridd provide the region with any kind of young talent, though their recent sacking of "Chief" Dale Mcintosh the Pontypridd head coach could have very costly implications for the future! How many young Ponty players will want to go to a region that has sacked a player who is a demi god in Pontypridd?
The Scarlets are doing brilliant work and their really hovering up a lot of young talent in North Wales which is having a massive knock on effect on their first team.
Yet still with Neath, Aberavon, Swansea and it's valleys, Maesteg, and Brigend / Pencoed, we have an immense pool of young talent to cherry pick from.

An element amongst the senior Ospreys players have tried to do a coup on Holley it hasn't succeded and Cuddy has decided to kick the underperforming players out.
Holley has until after the world Cup to prove he can build a team spirit and get this squad playing. If he can't then Steve Hansen will come in and kick some asses in October after his New Zealand contract expires.

I will be in EL5 next season which is now a C class (not A) season ticket holder area, see you there mate

Taibach incident. Where does that all tie in?

Glas a du wrote:Taibach incident. Where does that all tie in?

Red blooded young men in their prime, having had a skinfull of alchol... haven't you been out drinking before?
Most people in their age group get into scrapes when they go out drinking!

Good article Ospreylian - you cover all the bases, but I have to disagree with your conclusions.

Look at the list of players who have ended up "losing form". Were it just one or two, I wouldn't be suspiscious, but there are so many players who have "lost form" since the current coaching regime has come together that I do not believe it IS a coincedence.

Add to that Tiatia's leaving, the ruckus at our afilliated clubs, the loss of junior players and the rumours of continued unrest in the playing squad that you yourself have commented on.

Wake up and smell the coffee Os fans. Hore, Johnson and Ho-Hum are hopeless.

AlynDavies wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Taibach incident. Where does that all tie in?

Red blooded young men in their prime, having had a skinfull of alchol... haven't you been out drinking before?
Most people in their age group get into scrapes when they go out drinking!

Yes, yes, yes, I know all of that. I know very little apart from rumour about what went on. However it has coincided with a drop off of form only occasionally punctuated and an exodus of senior players and a decent youngish coach. The incident may have been a storm in a tea cup, however it's repercussions seem to be massive and growing. You have to lance the boil boys and as Ospreys fans you should be pressing for this not assisting in the cover up.

heard yesterday that ospreys offered Steffan Jones a 40k contract before he signed for the Dragons. Not sure where he would have fitted in with Bigger and Morgan at OH, and Fussell, Prydie and Owen able to play FB.

Ospreylian, is this the reason why there has been some unrest wth the younger players like Mathew Morgan?

pioden gorllewin wrote:heard yesterday that ospreys offered Steffan Jones a 40k contract before he signed for the Dragons. Not sure where he would have fitted in with Bigger and Morgan at OH, and Fussell, Prydie and Owen able to play FB.

Ospreylian, is this the reason why there has been some unrest wth the younger players like Mathew Morgan?

Like all regions, the O's are continually looking for good quality youngsters to sign up, wherever they are.
Only two seasons ago the O's tried and failed to get Faletau on board, while the Dragons pushed for Kristian Phillips, before that the blues were sniffing around Hook on a weekly basis and the Scarlets have tried hard to get Ian Evans. It's a fact of life, and if young players get stroppy about it then maybe they are not ready for the big time.

As an aside, it grieves me that both the Ospreys and the Blues have issues with their feeder clubs, in Neath and Ponty, these two areas are way too important to be at loggerheads with their regions. It's for that I hope the reduction of the Premier will result in the WRUJ doing what it says it does, and properly administer the game of rugby in Wales.

Sitting here on the sidelines while Munster battle Leinster, European champions, is just too much, while I don't think that the Ospreys will be a force in either Magners or Heineken (I include that fading Blues there) this is surely the right time for both the Dragons and Scarlets to step up to the plate, the humiliation if they dont will be huge.

Mathew Morgan is 19 years old and is 5ft8" tall and 11 st 7 lb. He's still to small and isnt yet ready for first team rugby. Can you imagine what would happen to him against one of the strong Irish teams?
Morgan is unhappy because Holley is putting the brakes on him, but Holley is correct. Letting the Welsh press build up Morgan as the next Phil Bennett only for his confidence to be smashed to pieces when he turns out to be human and not in fact a god like rugby player will benefit him.
You only have to look at Tom Prydie and Dan Biggar in recent years to see how Gatland gets carried away with a youngster and talks him up, only to brutally discard them after a average game for Wales. To much too soon is a bad thing.
Steffan Jones looks like a very promising player, however he's better off at the Dragons, at least they use their backline...