FFR bribe their clubs to save the H-Cup

First topic message reminder :

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/2013/1111/485986-heineken-cup-france-offer/
I found this on RTE picking up on an article in Midi-Olympique

"French clubs have been offered €2 million each by the FFR to commit to playing in the Heineken Cup next season, according to reports in French media.

Pierre Camou, the Federation Francaise de Rugby president, is reported to have chaired a secret meeting at Paris’s Charles-de-Gaulle airport last week which was attended by representatives of the Top 14 clubs, as well as several of their English counterparts.

The claims were reported in French newspaper Midi Olympique.

The FFR chief is insistent that any European competition next season will continue to be governed by the European Rugby Cup.

Camou has been strongly opposed from outset of the announcement of plans for the Rugby Champions Cup.

According to Midi Olympique, the FFR is now ready to ensure that the ERC remains the only show in town by delivering a payment of up to €2 million to each of the French clubs.

Camou has reportedly also proposed the idea of signing any individual players who wish to continue playing in the Heineken Cup onto central federal contracts with the FFR, similar to what the IRFU does with its star players.

Camou is insistent that what the French clubs are planning to do in breaking away to form the Rugby Champions Cup is in contravention of existing French rugby laws.

When the plans for the RCC were first announced, the FFR were quick to warn the Ligue National de Rugby that they had no right to organise a competition without the direct consent of both the FFR and the International Rugby Board.

It is understood that Camou has support from several of the individual French clubs, including Toulon and Biarritz."

I'm surprised that they need to resort to bribery. Or that the FFR has €28 million to bribe them with. To me it smacks of desperation. This could work though.

quinsforever wrote:

Munchkin wrote:quins= "I just love the fact that FFR's hope as pinned on the team owner that detests them (toulon) and the team guaranteed to be relegated and hence completely irrelevant to HC anyway (biarritz). when i look at things like that, it hardly seems that the divide and conquer strategy is carrying the day. boudjellal divides himself, and biarritz will be divided when they get relegated...Laugh "

The FFR's hope is not pinned on Toulon. Where do you get that from? The FFR are trusting, according to reports, very much on the incentive of offering CCs to those teams who continue to compete in an ERC run HEC, along with the cherry on top of €2million. If not all T14 sign up then that offer is extended to D2. Failing that, which is won't, then FFR block any new competition by legal means.
Maybe FFR want to break LNR?....

only 2 teams mentioned as siding with FFR are Toulon and Biarritz. they are the only ones "out of the closet". hardly going to worry the rest of the top14 owners is it, boudjellal and soon-to-be-relegated Biarritz? or maybe you know different?

What does that have to do with my reply? Didn't you read it? What the clubs think of each other isn't a factor here. What matters is that the clubs have been offered a powerful incentive of CC's, €2million and the chance to compete in European competition.

Clutching at straws, or strawman?  

On your comment; as far as I know there are 4 T14 clubs, at last count, committed to ERC. Relegation is hardly a factor as if all slots are not taken up by T14 then they are offered to D2.

quinsforever wrote:i dont know anything about this sin. i couldnt care less how the RFU sells its tickets. If some chumps are willing to pay way over the odds to entertain corporate clients, and that money ultimately finds its way back into English rugby i would much prefer that to ticket touts scalping the premium.

i thought the game was all sold out anyway? are you sure its not touts on ebay selling them?

Yea, they are touts. The funny thing is that the RFU and their lapdog journalists think that the being able to sell tickets to the ABs means that the RFU financial future is secure and its not a big deal borrowing 50M (taking up 40m) immediately.

You were very worried about the IRFU arranging a 24m borrowing facilility becuase they hadn't presold all of their 10 year tickets.

PS - the Aviva is sold out for the ABs months ago.

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Munchkin wrote:quins= "I just love the fact that FFR's hope as pinned on the team owner that detests them (toulon) and the team guaranteed to be relegated and hence completely irrelevant to HC anyway (biarritz). when i look at things like that, it hardly seems that the divide and conquer strategy is carrying the day. boudjellal divides himself, and biarritz will be divided when they get relegated...Laugh "

The FFR's hope is not pinned on Toulon. Where do you get that from? The FFR are trusting, according to reports, very much on the incentive of offering CCs to those teams who continue to compete in an ERC run HEC, along with the cherry on top of €2million. If not all T14 sign up then that offer is extended to D2. Failing that, which is won't, then FFR block any new competition by legal means.
Maybe FFR want to break LNR?....

only 2 teams mentioned as siding with FFR are Toulon and Biarritz. they are the only ones "out of the closet". hardly going to worry the rest of the top14 owners is it, boudjellal and soon-to-be-relegated Biarritz? or maybe you know different?

What does that have to do with my reply? Didn't you read it? What the clubs think of each other isn't a factor here. What matters is that the clubs have been offered a powerful incentive of CC's, €2million and the chance to compete in European competition.

Clutching at straws, or strawman?  

On your comment; as far as I know there are 4 T14 clubs, at last count, committed to ERC. Relegation is hardly a factor as if all slots are not taken up by T14 then they are offered to D2.

You forgot to mention the central contracts for internationals which Toulouse have been looking for some time now.

took you that long to read the IRFU annual report did it artful? welcome back, and as always thanks for your insightful analysis.

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Munchkin wrote:quins= "I just love the fact that FFR's hope as pinned on the team owner that detests them (toulon) and the team guaranteed to be relegated and hence completely irrelevant to HC anyway (biarritz). when i look at things like that, it hardly seems that the divide and conquer strategy is carrying the day. boudjellal divides himself, and biarritz will be divided when they get relegated...Laugh "

The FFR's hope is not pinned on Toulon. Where do you get that from? The FFR are trusting, according to reports, very much on the incentive of offering CCs to those teams who continue to compete in an ERC run HEC, along with the cherry on top of €2million. If not all T14 sign up then that offer is extended to D2. Failing that, which is won't, then FFR block any new competition by legal means.
Maybe FFR want to break LNR?....

only 2 teams mentioned as siding with FFR are Toulon and Biarritz. they are the only ones "out of the closet". hardly going to worry the rest of the top14 owners is it, boudjellal and soon-to-be-relegated Biarritz? or maybe you know different?

What does that have to do with my reply? Didn't you read it? What the clubs think of each other isn't a factor here. What matters is that the clubs have been offered a powerful incentive of CC's, €2million and the chance to compete in European competition.

Clutching at straws, or strawman?  

On your comment; as far as I know there are 4 T14 clubs, at last count, committed to ERC. Relegation is hardly a factor as if all slots are not taken up by T14 then they are offered to D2.

of course what the clubs think of each other is a factor. because the LNR makes decisions on a majority basis. as has been posted elsewhere, if Toulouse affirmed support for FFR, the others would probably follow. Boudjellal? soon to be relegated biarritz where blanco (hoping to be next FFR chief) is chairman? It is LNR that pulled out of ERC, and it can only be LNR that goes back into ERC, which is why it very much matters precisely who is in favour of FFR and ERC. Solidarity is critical here or cant you see that?

just to add fuel to the fire, i just read a rumour on another site that SKY are the ones funding the FFR's EUR2m offer to each of the T14 clubs, and they are also offering to sweeten the deal to IRFU and SRU directly to get them to stick with ERC and SKY.

which would go some way to answering how the F the FFR were going to fund this plus central contracts...

(Reuters) - European rugby's new club competition is a "train that has left the station" but there is still just time to pick up the Heineken Cup refuseniks, the head of the English Premiership said on Wednesday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/rugby-heineken-mccafferty-idUKL4N0IY49620131113

quins = "of course what the clubs think of each other is a factor. because the LNR makes decisions on a majority basis. as has been posted elsewhere, if Toulouse affirmed support for FFR, the others would probably follow. Boudjellal? soon to be relegated biarritz where blanco (hoping to be next FFR chief) is chairman? It is LNR that pulled out of ERC, and it can only be LNR that goes back into ERC, which is why it very much matters precisely who is in favour of FFR and ERC. Solidarity is critical here or cant you see that?"

Stop deflecting. It doesn't matter what they think of each other in terms of attitude towards FFR, or league position. Again... what matters is the offer put on the table by Camou, and remember, this is an offer that can be extended to D2.
As far as solidarity is concerned? At this point in time that solidarity is broken. At least 4 against 10 according to reports.
What matters perhaps more here is that Camou has stated that he will not allow a new competition to take place. At least not one sanctioned by FFR. If that's true then there will be an ERC HEC next year, and there will not be any new PRL/LNR competition.

quinsforever wrote:(Reuters) - European rugby's new club competition is a "train that has left the station" but there is still just time to pick up the Heineken Cup refuseniks, the head of the English Premiership said on Wednesday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/rugby-heineken-mccafferty-idUKL4N0IY49620131113

McCafferty getting desperate?



"For all his confident noises, however, McCafferty admitted that there were still some issues to be ironed out between the countries already committed.

The chief sticking point at the moment is the issue of "governance", with the English Premiership happy to proceed under the umbrella of the Six Nations in terms of discipline, refereeing, doping etc but with the French seeking some adjustments.

REACHED AGREEMENT

"We thought we'd reached agreement on that 10 days ago and we're putting up a fourth different proposal on governance today - a tweak to accommodate some other views," he told an audience of around 200 at the Expo.

"It's probably the last 10 percent of the issues but at this stage they could have 90 percent of importance in the debate."



So even those already on board McCafferty's choo choo train have issue's? Excellent  

Munchkin wrote:quins = "of course what the clubs think of each other is a factor. because the LNR makes decisions on a majority basis. as has been posted elsewhere, if Toulouse affirmed support for FFR, the others would probably follow. Boudjellal? soon to be relegated biarritz where blanco (hoping to be next FFR chief) is chairman? It is LNR that pulled out of ERC, and it can only be LNR that goes back into ERC, which is why it very much matters precisely who is in favour of FFR and ERC. Solidarity is critical here or cant you see that?"

Stop deflecting. It doesn't matter what they think of each other in terms of attitude towards FFR, or league position. Again... what matters is the offer put on the table by Camou, and remember, this is an offer that can be extended to D2.
As far as solidarity is concerned? At this point in time that solidarity is broken. At least 4 against 10 according to reports.
What matters perhaps more here is that Camou has stated that he will not allow a new competition to take place. At least not one sanctioned by FFR. If that's true then there will be an ERC HEC next year, and there will not be any new PRL/LNR competition.

have bolded the key part of your argument.

from where i sit, both camou and ffr's statements have gotten less strident as their bluffs have been successively called. for example, if Camou meant what he said when he first threatened to not re-issue LNR with a license, why is he now offering them EUR2m per club to please, pretty please come back to the ERC?

i didnt believe what he claimed back then, and i don't believe it now either. LNR will hold firm and Camou will bottle it. 10 out of 14 is still solidarity in voting terms.

quinsforever wrote:

Munchkin wrote:quins = "of course what the clubs think of each other is a factor. because the LNR makes decisions on a majority basis. as has been posted elsewhere, if Toulouse affirmed support for FFR, the others would probably follow. Boudjellal? soon to be relegated biarritz where blanco (hoping to be next FFR chief) is chairman? It is LNR that pulled out of ERC, and it can only be LNR that goes back into ERC, which is why it very much matters precisely who is in favour of FFR and ERC. Solidarity is critical here or cant you see that?"

Stop deflecting. It doesn't matter what they think of each other in terms of attitude towards FFR, or league position. Again... what matters is the offer put on the table by Camou, and remember, this is an offer that can be extended to D2.
As far as solidarity is concerned? At this point in time that solidarity is broken. At least 4 against 10 according to reports.
What matters perhaps more here is that Camou has stated that he will not allow a new competition to take place. At least not one sanctioned by FFR. If that's true then there will be an ERC HEC next year, and there will not be any new PRL/LNR competition.

have bolded the key part of your argument.

from where i sit, both camou and ffr's statements have gotten less strident as their bluffs have been successively called. for example, if Camou meant what he said when he first threatened to not re-issue LNR with a license, why is he now offering them EUR2m per club to please, pretty please come back to the ERC?

i didnt believe what he claimed back then, and i don't believe it now either. LNR will hold firm and Camou will bottle it. 10 out of 14 is still solidarity in voting terms.

You're running out of steam, quins. That's an incredibly weak argument. Give it up  

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:(Reuters) - European rugby's new club competition is a "train that has left the station" but there is still just time to pick up the Heineken Cup refuseniks, the head of the English Premiership said on Wednesday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/rugby-heineken-mccafferty-idUKL4N0IY49620131113

McCafferty getting desperate?



"For all his confident noises, however, McCafferty admitted that there were still some issues to be ironed out between the countries already committed.

The chief sticking point at the moment is the issue of "governance", with the English Premiership happy to proceed under the umbrella of the Six Nations in terms of discipline, refereeing, doping etc but with the French seeking some adjustments.

REACHED AGREEMENT

"We thought we'd reached agreement on that 10 days ago and we're putting up a fourth different proposal on governance today - a tweak to accommodate some other views," he told an audience of around 200 at the Expo.

"It's probably the last 10 percent of the issues but at this stage they could have 90 percent of importance in the debate."



So even those already on board McCafferty's choo choo train have issue's? Excellent  

but at least by being on the train there is the possibility to influence the resolution of the issues. when its all agreed, and Camou's bluff against LNR fails and he flip flops, what negotiating leverage will IRFU, SRU and FIR have? zero. it'll be take your seats please or get off the flippin train.

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:i dont know anything about this sin. i couldnt care less how the RFU sells its tickets. If some chumps are willing to pay way over the odds to entertain corporate clients, and that money ultimately finds its way back into English rugby i would much prefer that to ticket touts scalping the premium.

i thought the game was all sold out anyway? are you sure its not touts on ebay selling them?

Yea, they are touts. The funny thing is that the RFU and their lapdog journalists think that the being able to sell tickets to the ABs means that the RFU financial future is secure and its not a big deal borrowing 50M (taking up 40m) immediately.

You were very worried about the IRFU arranging a 24m borrowing facilility becuase they hadn't presold all of their 10 year tickets.

PS - the Aviva is sold out for the ABs months ago.

what is this? a who's dicks is bigger contest?

Where are you making the link between tickets for the AB game and the RFU being able to pay back it's debt?

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Munchkin wrote:quins = "of course what the clubs think of each other is a factor. because the LNR makes decisions on a majority basis. as has been posted elsewhere, if Toulouse affirmed support for FFR, the others would probably follow. Boudjellal? soon to be relegated biarritz where blanco (hoping to be next FFR chief) is chairman? It is LNR that pulled out of ERC, and it can only be LNR that goes back into ERC, which is why it very much matters precisely who is in favour of FFR and ERC. Solidarity is critical here or cant you see that?"

Stop deflecting. It doesn't matter what they think of each other in terms of attitude towards FFR, or league position. Again... what matters is the offer put on the table by Camou, and remember, this is an offer that can be extended to D2.
As far as solidarity is concerned? At this point in time that solidarity is broken. At least 4 against 10 according to reports.
What matters perhaps more here is that Camou has stated that he will not allow a new competition to take place. At least not one sanctioned by FFR. If that's true then there will be an ERC HEC next year, and there will not be any new PRL/LNR competition.

have bolded the key part of your argument.

from where i sit, both camou and ffr's statements have gotten less strident as their bluffs have been successively called. for example, if Camou meant what he said when he first threatened to not re-issue LNR with a license, why is he now offering them EUR2m per club to please, pretty please come back to the ERC?

i didnt believe what he claimed back then, and i don't believe it now either. LNR will hold firm and Camou will bottle it. 10 out of 14 is still solidarity in voting terms.

You're running out of steam, quins. That's an incredibly weak argument. Give it up  

When someone declares an argument as weak without explaining why, it's usually when they indeed have a weak argument themselves.

Truth of the matter with all this, nobody can say with any certainty whats true and what isn't. .... and no, just because someone read it in a paper doesn't make it true either.

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Munchkin wrote:quins = "of course what the clubs think of each other is a factor. because the LNR makes decisions on a majority basis. as has been posted elsewhere, if Toulouse affirmed support for FFR, the others would probably follow. Boudjellal? soon to be relegated biarritz where blanco (hoping to be next FFR chief) is chairman? It is LNR that pulled out of ERC, and it can only be LNR that goes back into ERC, which is why it very much matters precisely who is in favour of FFR and ERC. Solidarity is critical here or cant you see that?"

Stop deflecting. It doesn't matter what they think of each other in terms of attitude towards FFR, or league position. Again... what matters is the offer put on the table by Camou, and remember, this is an offer that can be extended to D2.
As far as solidarity is concerned? At this point in time that solidarity is broken. At least 4 against 10 according to reports.
What matters perhaps more here is that Camou has stated that he will not allow a new competition to take place. At least not one sanctioned by FFR. If that's true then there will be an ERC HEC next year, and there will not be any new PRL/LNR competition.

have bolded the key part of your argument.

from where i sit, both camou and ffr's statements have gotten less strident as their bluffs have been successively called. for example, if Camou meant what he said when he first threatened to not re-issue LNR with a license, why is he now offering them EUR2m per club to please, pretty please come back to the ERC?

i didnt believe what he claimed back then, and i don't believe it now either. LNR will hold firm and Camou will bottle it. 10 out of 14 is still solidarity in voting terms.

You're running out of steam, quins. That's an incredibly weak argument. Give it up  

it was a weak argument when i made if 3 months ago, then IRB changed their tune, weak argument two months ago, then Camou retreated from the threat to disband the top14, and apparently its still a weak argument now. but i've been right so far about the relative strength of the negotiating positions, and ERC and the unions spreading their legs on qualification and finances proved that amply. i see no reason to give up on my "weak" but winning argument.

quinsforever wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:(Reuters) - European rugby's new club competition is a "train that has left the station" but there is still just time to pick up the Heineken Cup refuseniks, the head of the English Premiership said on Wednesday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/rugby-heineken-mccafferty-idUKL4N0IY49620131113

McCafferty getting desperate?



"For all his confident noises, however, McCafferty admitted that there were still some issues to be ironed out between the countries already committed.

The chief sticking point at the moment is the issue of "governance", with the English Premiership happy to proceed under the umbrella of the Six Nations in terms of discipline, refereeing, doping etc but with the French seeking some adjustments.

REACHED AGREEMENT

"We thought we'd reached agreement on that 10 days ago and we're putting up a fourth different proposal on governance today - a tweak to accommodate some other views," he told an audience of around 200 at the Expo.

"It's probably the last 10 percent of the issues but at this stage they could have 90 percent of importance in the debate."



So even those already on board McCafferty's choo choo train have issue's? Excellent  

but at least by being on the train there is the possibility to influence the resolution of the issues. when its all agreed, and Camou's bluff against LNR fails and he flip flops, what negotiating leverage will IRFU, SRU and FIR have? zero. it'll be take your seats please or get off the flippin train.

It could well be a train on a journey that's running out of track. Maybe all those on board should prepare....just in case...

i'm sure someone can get a train robbery into these analogies some were!

it's on a fast track to shangri-la

lets just hope its not an HS2!  

It's the Cassandra Crossing, with Richard Harris and Sophia Loren.

How can a train pick up passengers after it's left the station!?

The Health & Safety people would be all over that if they even hinted at helicopters with winches.

quins = "it was a weak argument when i made if 3 months ago, then IRB changed their tune, weak argument two months ago, then Camou retreated from the threat to disband the top14, and apparently its still a weak argument now. but i've been right so far about the relative strength of the negotiating positions, and ERC and the unions spreading their legs on qualification and finances proved that amply. i see no reason to give up on my "weak" but winning argument."

This is getting even more silly. I will leave you to it, quins.

....well, until next time    

nathan wrote:

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:i dont know anything about this sin. i couldnt care less how the RFU sells its tickets. If some chumps are willing to pay way over the odds to entertain corporate clients, and that money ultimately finds its way back into English rugby i would much prefer that to ticket touts scalping the premium.

i thought the game was all sold out anyway? are you sure its not touts on ebay selling them?

Yea, they are touts. The funny thing is that the RFU and their lapdog journalists think that the being able to sell tickets to the ABs means that the RFU financial future is secure and its not a big deal borrowing 50M (taking up 40m) immediately.

You were very worried about the IRFU arranging a 24m borrowing facilility becuase they hadn't presold all of their 10 year tickets.

PS - the Aviva is sold out for the ABs months ago.

what is this? a who's dicks is bigger contest?

Where are you making the link between tickets for the AB game and the RFU being able to pay back it's debt?

Just returning the expressions of concern for the RFU with Quinns who has displayed incredible concern for the IRFU who are borrowing 24m to cover not selling some of their 10 years tickets.

The RFU have just borrowed double that, and are not concerned about how they are going to pay it back because they are getting a full house for the ABs.

The spin is from the Torygraph.

RFU rubs hands at prospect of bumper pay day as mighty All Blacks head to Twickenham for England clash
Sky-high demand to watch New Zealand game at Twickenham will help make Rugby Football Union debt free by time it hosts 2015 Rugby World Cup

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10442472/RFU-rubs-hands-at-prospect-of-bumper-pay-day-as-mighty-All-Blacks-head-to-Twickenham-for-England-clash.html

Sin é wrote:

nathan wrote:

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:i dont know anything about this sin. i couldnt care less how the RFU sells its tickets. If some chumps are willing to pay way over the odds to entertain corporate clients, and that money ultimately finds its way back into English rugby i would much prefer that to ticket touts scalping the premium.

i thought the game was all sold out anyway? are you sure its not touts on ebay selling them?

Yea, they are touts. The funny thing is that the RFU and their lapdog journalists think that the being able to sell tickets to the ABs means that the RFU financial future is secure and its not a big deal borrowing 50M (taking up 40m) immediately.

You were very worried about the IRFU arranging a 24m borrowing facilility becuase they hadn't presold all of their 10 year tickets.

PS - the Aviva is sold out for the ABs months ago.

what is this? a who's dicks is bigger contest?

Where are you making the link between tickets for the AB game and the RFU being able to pay back it's debt?

Just returning the expressions of concern for the RFU with Quinns who has displayed incredible concern for the IRFU who are borrowing 24m to cover not selling some of their 10 years tickets.

The RFU have just borrowed double that, and are not concerned about how they are going to pay it back because they are getting a full house for the ABs.

The spin is from the Torygraph.

RFU rubs hands at prospect of bumper pay day as mighty All Blacks head to Twickenham for England clash
Sky-high demand to watch New Zealand game at Twickenham will help make Rugby Football Union debt free by time it hosts 2015 Rugby World Cup

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10442472/RFU-rubs-hands-at-prospect-of-bumper-pay-day-as-mighty-All-Blacks-head-to-Twickenham-for-England-clash.html

So in which part did the RFU say they wasn't concerned about the debt because they were playing the all blacks? your making stuff up my friend!

quinsforever wrote:(Reuters) - European rugby's new club competition is a "train that has left the station" but there is still just time to pick up the Heineken Cup refuseniks, the head of the English Premiership said on Wednesday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/rugby-heineken-mccafferty-idUKL4N0IY49620131113

quins, this article on McCafferty is taken from the Rugby Expo, or whatever it's called, today, wasn't it?

Could you tell me...who hosted it?  

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:(Reuters) - European rugby's new club competition is a "train that has left the station" but there is still just time to pick up the Heineken Cup refuseniks, the head of the English Premiership said on Wednesday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/rugby-heineken-mccafferty-idUKL4N0IY49620131113

quins, this article on McCafferty is taken from the Rugby Expo, or whatever it's called, today, wasn't it?

Could you tell me...who hosted it?  

the article, as the link shows, is from an interview with reuters after mccaferty spoke on a panel or something like that.

who cares who is hosting it. presumably a for-profit conference organising company in conjunction with prl and rfu?

can't believe i have to explain that is was a likely source of media quotes. who hosts the event is about as relevant as what they served in the catering tent. nowhere is rugby expo mentioned as any kind of authority in rugby.

if you bothered to read the fuppin piece i posted you would have seen this -

"McCafferty told Reuters after addressing Wednesday's Rugby Expo at Twickenham."

quinsforever wrote:just to add fuel to the fire, i just read a rumour on another site that SKY are the ones funding the FFR's EUR2m offer to each of the T14 clubs, and they are also offering to sweeten the deal to IRFU and SRU directly to get them to stick with ERC and SKY.

which would go some way to answering how the F the FFR were going to fund this plus central contracts...

Now this move makes sense to me. This is not an act of desperation by the FFR but by Sky. The FFR were the ones delivering the message, along with the proposal for central contracts.

quinsforever wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:(Reuters) - European rugby's new club competition is a "train that has left the station" but there is still just time to pick up the Heineken Cup refuseniks, the head of the English Premiership said on Wednesday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/rugby-heineken-mccafferty-idUKL4N0IY49620131113

quins, this article on McCafferty is taken from the Rugby Expo, or whatever it's called, today, wasn't it?

Could you tell me...who hosted it?  

the article, as the link shows, is from an interview with reuters after mccaferty spoke on a panel or something like that.

who cares who is hosting it. presumably a for-profit conference organising company in conjunction with prl and rfu?

can't believe i have to explain that is was a likely source of media quotes. who hosts the event is about as relevant as what they served in the catering tent. nowhere is rugby expo mentioned as any kind of authority in rugby.

I know who printed the article, quins, I wanted you to tell me who hosted the event? Of course who hosted it is relevant. To me anyway  

It is a BT/PRL thing, isn't it?, and today they were set to announce to the world the new super duper Euro cup thing, weren't they? Only problem is...there's nothing to announce  

The article doesn't tell us anything new. Just more on the very elastic deadline that was supposed to have passed weeks ago, and of course that the LNR have issues with the PRL proposals....

Anywho...thanks for your reply

quinsforever wrote:if you bothered to read the fuppin piece i posted you would have seen this -

"McCafferty told Reuters after addressing Wednesday's Rugby Expo at Twickenham."

I did read it. You obviously didn't read my question to you as your reply has nothing to do with what I requested. Are you sleepy?  

anytime bro. am watching highlights of eng vs france 2003 RWC semifinal on youtube to get me in the mood for saturday - atrocious wet conditions, resolute forwards play, inspired kicking from wilko...i am ever the optimist.

i dont think bt are anything to do with it whatsoever. amd sure prl and rfu are involved, but given the attendance list of foreign unions it clearly more of a professional expo/conference than a promotional thing for english rugby.

you're obviously spoiling for a fight. not much i can do about that. maybe you'd just like to tell me why who organises a conference is relevant to the PRL CEO giving an interview to Reuters?

maybe you should look at Andrew Hore's comments in support of RCC inside the expo if you want to get yourself genuinely upset. there's another thread on stuff coming out of the expo.

quinsforever wrote:anytime bro. am watching highlights of eng vs france 2003 RWC semifinal on youtube to get me in the mood for saturday - atrocious wet conditions, resolute forwards play, inspired kicking from wilko...i am ever the optimist.

i dont think bt are anything to do with it whatsoever. amd sure prl and rfu are involved, but given the attendance list of foreign unions it clearly more of a professional expo/conference than a promotional thing for english rugby.

It was actually set to major on a new European competition today (which includes the Irish, Scots and Italians!!). Been reading up on it from 10 days ago. T'is all on google  

BT were moderators, including the head of BT Sport. So yep, looks like a joint venture.

You're getting set for Saturday then. Should be a great game between to very good sides. Hope so anyway, as I do the Ireland/Australia game. Here's hoping for for both sides:goodluck: 

quinsforever wrote:you're obviously spoiling for a fight. not much i can do about that. maybe you'd just like to tell me why who organises a conference is relevant to the PRL CEO giving an interview to Reuters?

maybe you should look at Andrew Hore's comments in support of RCC inside the expo if you want to get yourself genuinely upset. there's another thread on stuff coming out of the expo.

No I'm not, quins. My sense of humour is off the wall at times, so just ignore it. There's never offence intended  

none taken. i know i can be a bit abrasive too sometimes. not trying to deliberating offend either.  

BT are the official suppliers to the Conference (according to the website).

The Conference is officially supported by the RFU, PRL, Scottish Rugby, Pro12, WRU and last, but not least the ERC  

Another hijacking by the PRL/BT then  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10448246/French-hold-the-key-to-securing-a-deal-for-European-club-rugby.html
Says that majority of Home Unions back PRL proposal, just FFR + 1 Home Union(wonder who that is) to get on side

cant get through firewall to read it.

i wonder too which home union is not onside yet...must be WRU (bit land-grabby to include all of Ireland in home nations). Rog the Dodge waging his own personal power war against the welsh regions.

i still dont understand quite what the FFR attachment to ERC is, given that FFR were the first to file their notice to withdraw from the tournament (the filed the notice on behalf of LNR!). I assume its actually nothing to do with ERC and all about renegotiating the powerlines in french domestic rugby.

well it will be interesting indeed if FFR end up being the ones isolated. aint gonna be no ERC santioned cross border tournament involving only the french semi-pro sides!!!!

Premiership Rugby has moved to address the outstanding concerns of the French Rugby Federation over its new European club competitions after revealing that a majority of the Home Unions, including the Rugby Football Union, had agreed to its governance proposals for the competitions.


Mark McCafferty, the Premiership Rugby chief executive, said a “fourth version” of its model for the Rugby Champions’ Cup to sit within a governance structure run by the existing Six Nations board would be presented to France’s governing body on Wednesday in an attempt to forge a breakthrough in negotiations.


Governance of the competitions to replace the Heineken and Amlin Challenge Cups has been the key outstanding issue since a summit of stakeholders in Dublin in October secured agreement over tournament structures and revenue distribution.


Premiership Rugby’s proposal is that the clubs from the three participating leagues – the Premiership, Top 14 and RaboDirect Pro12 – run the tournaments and “commercialise their rights”.


Areas of governance such as implementation of IRB regulations, anti-doping integrity, disciplinary processes and appointment of match officials would then be left to the Six Nations in the model that dispenses with the present European Rugby Cup board.
McCafferty, speaking at the Rugby Expo event at Twickenham on Wednesday, said that negotiations were now entering a critical phase after indicating that the support of FFR was key to a breakthrough.

“We are probably at the stage where we could be close but are probably down to the last 10 per cent of issues but those 10 per cent of issues have a 90 per cent importance in terms of most of the player in the debate are concerned,” said McCafferty, who insisted the plans for the Rugby Champions’ Cup would continue irrespective of the negotiations.

“I think as far as the Home Unions are concerned it is doable. It think it is a question now of whether we can get the French union comfortable with the governance model.

“The most natural place for it to be is under Six Nations because those are all the countries that are all represented in there. We reached agreement on the Six Nations model with the majority, but not all of them, a week ago and we are looking at versions of that model to try to find the breakthrough.

“For example, if we are spreading out to new markets and those markets don’t belong to the Six Nations model, how do we incorporate some representatives from those areas who could sit alongside Six Nations for the purposes of RCC governance? If we have got the Russians and Spanish coming in, how do they get represented and play a role?”
The above article for those unable to log on

McCafferty should be very worried about bias if he wants the Six Nations to also manage the new champs cup as the CEO of the Six Nations company is also CEO of the Pro 12 and the B&I Lions.  

He also seems to have forgotten Italy in this thing!

italy will take whatever scraps they are offered. harsh but true.

Sin é wrote:McCafferty should be very worried about bias if he wants the Six Nations to also manage the new champs cup as the CEO of the Six Nations company is also CEO of the Pro 12 and the B&I Lions.  

He also seems to have forgotten Italy in this thing!

eh?

quinsforever wrote:italy will take whatever scraps they are offered. harsh but true.

Italy has a vote.

stub wrote:

Sin é wrote:McCafferty should be very worried about bias if he wants the Six Nations to also manage the new champs cup as the CEO of the Six Nations company is also CEO of the Pro 12 and the B&I Lions.  

He also seems to have forgotten Italy in this thing!

eh?

One of McCafferty's big moan was how the ERC were biased towards the PRO 12 teams. Now they want the equivalent of the PRL for the Pro 12 (Six Nations company) to manage the Heineken Cup.

At least the ERC were in a different building to the Pro 12!

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:italy will take whatever scraps they are offered. harsh but true.

Italy has a vote.

they also have pasta. italy will take whatever scraps they are offered.

they HAD a vote within ERC.

only get a vote in RCC if they join it. probably via their clubs.

Sin é wrote:

stub wrote:

Sin é wrote:McCafferty should be very worried about bias if he wants the Six Nations to also manage the new champs cup as the CEO of the Six Nations company is also CEO of the Pro 12 and the B&I Lions.  

He also seems to have forgotten Italy in this thing!

eh?

One of McCafferty's big moan was how the ERC were biased towards the PRO 12 teams. Now they want the equivalent of the PRL for the Pro 12 (Six Nations company) to manage the Heineken Cup.

At least the ERC were in a different building to the Pro 12!

McCafferty must really mistrust the ERC then? And obviously thinks the Six Nations company will not be biased?

McCafferty would have good reason not to trust ERC, as much as ERC would have good reason not to trust PRL/LNR. They want very different things...
I would doubt the reason he proposes the 6N over the ERC is due to any belief that the 6N would be any less bias than ERC. They are essentially the same thing as far as the unions are concerned. Maybe he is simply attempting to remove union influence from the inside of European competition to the outside? It's all about control.
It's interesting that McCafferty doesn't deny the alleged 'secret meeting' Camou had with LNR, and some of the PRL clubs, but rather makes a point of noting that having FFR on his side is crucial to the success of his plans for a new competition.
If the reports on Camou are accurate, and if Camou refuses to budge, then the PRL/LNR plans go up in smoke. Either way we will know before the end of December, if not before.

I think that it is case of the Six Nations company running the rugby side(refs,rules & regs) with the clubs seeing to the buisiness side(sponsership,media rights,Format etc etc).Thus appeasing IRB & Unions

I don't think it's a case of appeasing the Unions, I do think it's a case of the clubs wanting their cake, and eating it. By that I mean they need to work within the framework of Rugby Union otherwise they're out on their own, and they also get the benefit of having whatever union body is set up running their competition on their behalf. All at arms length. Tidy, isn't it?
Appeasing makes it sound as though the clubs are doing the Unions a favour. Anything but, methinks...

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:italy will take whatever scraps they are offered. harsh but true.

Italy has a vote.

they also have pasta. italy will take whatever scraps they are offered.

they HAD a vote within ERC.

only get a vote in RCC if they join it. probably via their clubs.

The ERC is still alive, so they still have a vote. The PRL would need their vote to disband the ERC  

They also host the 2015 Heineken Cup in the San Sero.

broadlandboy wrote:I think that it is case of the Six Nations company running the rugby side(refs,rules & regs) with the clubs seeing to the buisiness side(sponsership,media rights,Format etc etc).Thus appeasing IRB & Unions

Do you want the Six Nations company / IRB to clean out the toilets as well for their lords and masters the PRL.  

Even the participating soccer clubs don't get much of a say in the organisation of the Champions League which is run by UEFA (the 54 national associations).