London Scottish

I would like to find out a bit more about this club as not really sure on what level the players are at, does it develop Scottish players

I have sorta been following them a bit this season as I used to play in the same team as one of there players through the age grades,

How many of the squad are Scottish and has anyone ever gone from that club onto better contracts or caps?

Just it doesn't seem to say much online so thought I'd see what I can find out

dont know much about them, but you can see where the players were born on their website > http://www.londonscottish.com/rugby/players.php?searchyear=2013

poddy89 wrote:I would like to find out a bit more about this club as not really sure on what level the players are at, does it develop Scottish players

I have sorta been following them a bit this season as I used to play in the same team as one of there players through the age grades,

How many of the squad are Scottish and has anyone ever gone from that club onto better contracts or caps?

Just it doesn't seem to say much online so thought I'd see what I can find out

More players capped for Scotland from London Scottish than any other club so far.

had a look through some of the usaul matchday team and looks like there is only a handful of scottish born players in the club but it is good to have a few developing

suprised that it has produced more scottish capped players than any other club but thats good to hear - hopefully it can develop some more

poddy89 wrote:had a look through some of the usaul matchday team and looks like there is only a handful of scottish born players in the club but it is good to have a few developing

suprised that it has produced more scottish capped players than any other club but thats good to hear - hopefully it can develop some more

It has to be said that most of those capped where in the amateur era. It is not likely to produce to many more from the champoinship as things stand, but it does produce a few for the u20's and even the A team. Jamie Stephenson last year. I think Max Evans played for them before moving north. Like all championship sides, it is a good development ground in a very competitive league.

I would like to see them take more young scottish players who can't get a pro contract in Scotland. The champoinship is a level well above the national leagues in scotland as we saw from the last round of British and Irish cup matches. The champoinship clubs, including london scottish have not always taken this competition very serously in the past, but they do seem to be doing so now!

They have Neil Best!!

As a former player and lifetime supporter I may be slightly biased, but IMO London Scottish are one of the best clubs around with a long and proud history.

It was originally started as a club for Scots living and working in London and, as MacKnocked mentioned, they've produced more Scotland internationals and Lions captains than any other club.

Up until 1999 LS were in the top flight of English rugby but due to the then owner abruptly pulling out, subsequent bankruptcy, and with the RFU keen to make an example of someone - they were cast down 9 leagues to the bottom of English rugby.

Despite that setback they were promoted 7 times in 9 seasons to reach the RFU Championship and last season they made the move to become a fully professional club. This includes a coaching team of former Leicester Tigers hooker James Buckland, Mike Friday and French legend Serge Betsen.

They are still committed to producing and signing Scottish players and of their current squad I know Lee Millar, Jim Thompson, Oli Grove, Lewis Calder, Jamie Stevenson, Mike Doneghan and Tommy Spinks are all Scottish born. That doesn’t include the English born players in the squad and academy who are Scottish qualified. Apparently just under half the squad are Scottish qualified - which isn't far off Edinburgh's numbers!

Importantly they're members of both the SRU and RFU and, where London Irish and London Welsh have largely abandoned the original exiles concept, LS are still committed to producing Scottish qualified players.

Former Scotland players and board members Chris Rea and Kenny Logan recently said “ It is our hope and aim not only to restore London Scottish to its rightful place in the club hierarchy, but to get that conveyor belt of Scots qualified talent rolling again”.

They have openly said that their aim is to get back into the Aviva Premiership within the next few seasons - something being spearheaded by Kenny Baillie (who helped turn around Glasgow) and Sir David Reid (former chairman of Tesco who helped make them profitable again).

They are starting to build a very handy squad and have a lot of financial backing from Deutsche Bank, Aberdeen Asset Management (who previously wanted to set up a 3rd pro team in Aberdeen but were denied by Gordon McKie) and the Welbeck Group. Their current squad has a very healthy budget of £1.5 million

In my opinion they are Scotland’s best chance of establishing a 3rd pro team and would only require a small amount of backing (in players and cash) to achieve the goal of Premiership rugby – all at a fraction of the cost of Edinburgh or Glasgow.

madmaccas wrote:As a former player and lifetime supporter I may be slightly biased, but IMO London Scottish are one of the best clubs around with a long and proud history.

It was originally started as a club for Scots living and working in London and, as MacKnocked mentioned, they've produced more Scotland internationals and Lions captains than any other club.

Up until 1999 LS were in the top flight of English rugby but due to the then owner abruptly pulling out, subsequent bankruptcy, and with the RFU keen to make an example of someone - they were cast down 9 leagues to the bottom of English rugby.

Despite that setback they were promoted 7 times in 9 seasons to reach the RFU Championship and last season they made the move to become a fully professional club. This includes a coaching team of former Leicester Tigers hooker James Buckland, Mike Friday and French legend Serge Betsen.

They are still committed to producing and signing Scottish players and of their current squad I know Lee Millar, Jim Thompson, Oli Grove, Lewis Calder, Jamie Stevenson, Mike Doneghan and Tommy Spinks are all Scottish born. That doesn’t include the English born players in the squad and academy who are Scottish qualified. Apparently just under half the squad are Scottish qualified - which isn't far off Edinburgh's numbers!

Importantly they're members of both the SRU and RFU and, where London Irish and London Welsh have largely abandoned the original exiles concept, LS are still committed to producing Scottish qualified players.

Former Scotland players and board members Chris Rea and Kenny Logan recently said “ It is our hope and aim not only to restore London Scottish to its rightful place in the club hierarchy, but to get that conveyor belt of Scots qualified talent rolling again”.

They have openly said that their aim is to get back into the Aviva Premiership within the next few seasons - something being spearheaded by Kenny Baillie (who helped turn around Glasgow) and Sir David Reid (former chairman of Tesco who helped make them profitable again).

They are starting to build a very handy squad and have a lot of financial backing from Deutsche Bank, Aberdeen Asset Management (who previously wanted to set up a 3rd pro team in Aberdeen but were denied by Gordon McKie) and the Welbeck Group. Their current squad has a very healthy budget of £15 million

In my opinion they are Scotland’s best chance of establishing a 3rd pro team and would only require a small amount of backing (in players and cash) to achieve the goal of Premiership rugby – all at a fraction of the cost of Edinburgh or Glasgow.

good post  

what kind of attendances are they getting and more importantly could they get if they got promoted to Aviva ? and where exactly do they play ?

They're currently getting 1k+ for most games, more for important clashes. Who knows what that would become if they secure promotion to the AP - in some sense it would be determined by which team they were replacing (ie another London club or not), altho strictly going by the rules they'd have to do a London Welsh and move to a bigger capacity ground to meet the AP criteria. Currently they are at the Richmond Athletic Ground, sharing with Richmond

Didn't Phil Godman have a season playing for them?
It would be great to see them get promoted, I played against them a lot at junior levels and have a lot of ties to Richmond RFC.
As the previous poster says - if the long term ambition is to progress to the premiership then they need to start planning now to avoid all the red tape issues that Lon Welsh had. A move away from the RA ground seems likely unless they can convince the local authority that a stadium revamp would be beneficial.

Perhaps a continuation of the partnership with Richmond could secure the financial clout! As I think that Richmond RFC are the main tenants of the RA ground.

Richmond are only 1 division behind though - so would it still be possible to ground share 2 premiership clubs?

Poddy - good thread.

Maccas - that's a great post - answered a lot of the questions that I had too.

I think that the SRU have long been aware that this is a development option, but we're still saddled with debt and so I think using LS as a development ground is still a little way off. I would love to see them advance. I never lived near Richmond when I was in London (too poor) but if I did, I would have gone to see them every week.

propdavid_london wrote:Didn't Phil Godman have a season playing for them?  
It would be great to see them get promoted, I played against them a lot at junior levels and have a lot of ties to Richmond RFC.  
As the previous poster says - if the long term ambition is to progress to the premiership then they need to start planning now to avoid all the red tape issues that Lon Welsh had.  A move away from the RA ground seems likely unless they can convince the local authority that a stadium revamp would be beneficial.  

Perhaps a continuation of the partnership with Richmond could secure the financial clout!  As I think that Richmond RFC are the main tenants of the RA ground.  

Richmond are only 1 division behind though - so would it still be possible to ground share 2 premiership clubs?

Yeah he played for us last year and did pretty well. Interestingly he didn't dominate though, which I think speaks volumes about the ever improving standard of rugby being played in the championship.

Yeah the stadium remains an issue but I think the most realistic option would be a ground share with Brentford - it's 5 mins up the road and would fulfil all the Premiership entrance criteria. I'd love to see the Athletic ground developed but that would cost tens of millions and, whilst the club is ambitious, I think that may be slightly beyond the realms of possibility ATM.

I'd love to see Richmond back in the top echelons where they belong but, having spoken to a few of the players and supporters, I don't think they yet have the finances in place yet to make a concerted push.

George Carlin wrote:Poddy - good thread.

Maccas - that's a great post - answered a lot of the questions that I had too.

I think that the SRU have long been aware that this is a development option, but we're still saddled with debt and so I think using LS as a development ground is still a little way off. I would love to see them advance. I never lived near Richmond when I was in London (too poor) but if I did, I would have gone to see them every week.

From what I've heard from other supporters there were a few staunchly anti-english blazers at the SRU who disliked the concept of a London based Scottish team and refused to even communicate with the club (which is sad considering the commitment LS continue to show to Scottish rugby). A few years ago LS proposed joining the Celtic League but weren't given the time of day by the SRU sadly, hence why they had to spend so long pushing back up the leagues. A real shame in my opinion, imagine being able to watch the likes of Leinster, Munster, Cardiff and the Ospreys in the heart of London! With such big expat communities crowds certainly wouldn't have been a problem!

Anyway it seems that has all changed somewhat with the arrival of Dodson at Murrayfield and the channels of communication appear to be open once more. I think the first step would be to loan some of the fringe Edinburgh and Glasgow players to LS. Whilst I know the Scottish Prem clubs need players, the standard of rugby in the championship is higher and would be of more benefit in terms of player development - it'd also help LS push for the Aviva which would only be a good thing for Scottish rugby. Best of all, it wouldn't cost a penny!

After that the most useful thing the SRU could do would be to offer to match the bonus that the RFU give teams for fielding English qualified players. Due to European employment laws the RFU can't force teams to field English players so they incentivise it by offering around £350k to clubs that put out a certain amount of English qualified players in their match day squads. At present LS have to abide by that in order to remain financially competitive but all the SRU would need to do would be to match that to guarantee say 75% of the squad are Scottish qualified and there's nothing the RFU could do about it!

Considering the operating cost of the 2 pro teams is in excess of 10 million per year, £350k is chump change. They just need to think of it as a franchise that just happens to be based in London, which actually has a larger Scottish population than Aberdeen and Dundee combined!

Just back in from work and some great replys here that I am still reading through,,

But already found out lots if my unknowns and more,

Think this does look like our best chance for a third pro team any time soon. . hope the sru are sensible and maximise there opportunities with this one

madmaccas wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Poddy - good thread.

Maccas - that's a great post - answered a lot of the questions that I had too.

I think that the SRU have long been aware that this is a development option, but we're still saddled with debt and so I think using LS as a development ground is still a little way off. I would love to see them advance. I never lived near Richmond when I was in London (too poor) but if I did, I would have gone to see them every week.

From what I've heard from other supporters there were a few staunchly anti-english blazers at the SRU who disliked the concept of a London based Scottish team and refused to even communicate with the club (which is sad considering the commitment LS continue to show to Scottish rugby). A few years ago LS proposed joining the Celtic League but weren't given the time of day by the SRU sadly, hence why they had to spend so long pushing back up the leagues. A real shame in my opinion, imagine being able to watch the likes of Leinster, Munster, Cardiff and the Ospreys in the heart of London! With such big expat communities crowds certainly wouldn't have been a problem!

Anyway it seems that has all changed somewhat with the arrival of Dodson at Murrayfield and the channels of communication appear to be open once more. I think the first step would be to loan some of the fringe Edinburgh and Glasgow players to LS. Whilst I know the Scottish Prem clubs need players, the standard of rugby in the championship is higher and would be of more benefit in terms of player development - it'd also help LS push for the Aviva which would only be a good thing for Scottish rugby. Best of all, it wouldn't cost a penny!

After that the most useful thing the SRU could do would be to offer to match the bonus that the RFU give teams for fielding English qualified players. Due to European employment laws the RFU can't force teams to field English players so they incentivise it by offering around £350k to clubs that put out a certain amount of English qualified players in their match day squads. At present LS have to abide by that in order to remain financially competitive but all the SRU would need to do would be to match that to guarantee say 75% of the squad are Scottish qualified and there's nothing the RFU could do about it!

Considering the operating cost of the 2 pro teams is in excess of 10 million per year, £350k is chump change. They just need to think of it as a franchise that just happens to be based in London, which actually has a larger Scottish population than Aberdeen and Dundee combined!

Great post. This would all be fantastic news if it happened. Having a London based franchise focused on Scottish rugby development is a ridiculously good idea - as you say, with all the expats you'd get more chance to develop than several Scottish cities combined!

Ineffable wrote:
Great post. This would all be fantastic news if it happened. Having a London based franchise focused on Scottish rugby development is a ridiculously good idea - as you say, with all the expats you'd get more chance to develop than several Scottish cities combined!

I mentioned this to an Argentinian rugby supporter that I work with and he was green with envy, most countries would kill for a chance to have a team of their countrymen playing in the English Premiership! It's something Argentina have been trying to achieve for decades. I know the SRU aren't flush but surely they can pull some of the pyrotechnics for Murrayfield games to bung them £350k!

I'd love to hear why the SRU hasn't done this to date. I honestly can't see any downside. It's not like they'd be funding the team, LS are already fully autonomous so if it's a matter of trust (fearing a repeat of the Carruthers debacle) they needn't worry. They've even created a separate fire-walled business overseen by a board to makes sure that they never overextend themselves financially or become reliant on a sugar daddy again.

Mark Dodson recently said:

“We will not make a third team in Scotland until we have made the other two cash positive. The cost of running a pro team is enormous, so we would go from a small surplus to an increased loss. And there is no appetite for anyone to take a third team on. We know that from the people who have talked to us since I took the job. They are not serious about taking on a third team in a professional environment, being prepared to lose a significant amount of money year after year after year."

Well why doesn't he talk to London Scottish!? They're not losing money and are one concerted push away from Aviva Premiership rugby.

I've always thought that the Celtic Unions should all chip in to fund a team in London. It really is the biggest market for most things you can think of in Europe. A 33.3% stake in a team by each of the Celtic unions and a charter/agreement that encourages the coach to play a certain amount of players from each country. It's an interesting idea and I’m well aware it'll never happen. Always thought the WRU should have funded LW more. Those European employment laws would really get up the RFU's nose if both LW and LS were in the Prem being funded by foreign unions with majority foreign players.

I presume that there must be political issues involved in having a Rabo team based in someone else's "jurisdiction" however if they could find a suitable stadium a Scottish or even better combined "Celtic Exiles" team in the Rabo would get the crowds in both for the Rabo and whatever European games there would be.

I wonder whether as a result of the ill will that may be coming out of the HEC issue that it might be a flyer as a bit of a two fingers to the PRL?

Ineffable wrote:

madmaccas wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Poddy - good thread.

Maccas - that's a great post - answered a lot of the questions that I had too.

I think that the SRU have long been aware that this is a development option, but we're still saddled with debt and so I think using LS as a development ground is still a little way off. I would love to see them advance. I never lived near Richmond when I was in London (too poor) but if I did, I would have gone to see them every week.

From what I've heard from other supporters there were a few staunchly anti-english blazers at the SRU who disliked the concept of a London based Scottish team and refused to even communicate with the club (which is sad considering the commitment LS continue to show to Scottish rugby). A few years ago LS proposed joining the Celtic League but weren't given the time of day by the SRU sadly, hence why they had to spend so long pushing back up the leagues. A real shame in my opinion, imagine being able to watch the likes of Leinster, Munster, Cardiff and the Ospreys in the heart of London! With such big expat communities crowds certainly wouldn't have been a problem!

Anyway it seems that has all changed somewhat with the arrival of Dodson at Murrayfield and the channels of communication appear to be open once more. I think the first step would be to loan some of the fringe Edinburgh and Glasgow players to LS. Whilst I know the Scottish Prem clubs need players, the standard of rugby in the championship is higher and would be of more benefit in terms of player development - it'd also help LS push for the Aviva which would only be a good thing for Scottish rugby. Best of all, it wouldn't cost a penny!

After that the most useful thing the SRU could do would be to offer to match the bonus that the RFU give teams for fielding English qualified players. Due to European employment laws the RFU can't force teams to field English players so they incentivise it by offering around £350k to clubs that put out a certain amount of English qualified players in their match day squads. At present LS have to abide by that in order to remain financially competitive but all the SRU would need to do would be to match that to guarantee say 75% of the squad are Scottish qualified and there's nothing the RFU could do about it!

Considering the operating cost of the 2 pro teams is in excess of 10 million per year, £350k is chump change. They just need to think of it as a franchise that just happens to be based in London, which actually has a larger Scottish population than Aberdeen and Dundee combined!

Great post. This would all be fantastic news if it happened. Having a London based franchise focused on Scottish rugby development is a ridiculously good idea - as you say, with all the expats you'd get more chance to develop than several Scottish cities combined!

The number of kids with Scottish parents in London's public school system alone must be a feeding stream all by itself.

Irish Londoner wrote:I presume that there must be political issues involved in having a Rabo team based in someone else's "jurisdiction" however if they could find a suitable stadium a Scottish or even better combined "Celtic Exiles" team in the Rabo would get the crowds in both for the Rabo and whatever European games there would be.

I wonder whether as a result of the ill will that may be coming out of the HEC issue that it might be a flyer as a bit of a two fingers to the PRL?

I imagine that everyone would hate to see that?  

Irish Londoner wrote:I presume that there must be political issues involved in having a Rabo team based in someone else's "jurisdiction" however if they could find a suitable stadium a Scottish or even better combined "Celtic Exiles" team in the Rabo would get the crowds in both for the Rabo and whatever European games there would be

I really like this idea, a political minefield perhaps, but it would certainly be something different and would give a whole new set of fans a direct interest in the Aviva, where they might currently just watch as general rugby fans/not watch it at all

Of course having a Rabo side based in London would certainly not be a matter of huge upset for their new braodcaster Sky TV would it? I wonder how much you could buy Brentford for?

madmaccas wrote:

propdavid_london wrote:Didn't Phil Godman have a season playing for them?  
It would be great to see them get promoted, I played against them a lot at junior levels and have a lot of ties to Richmond RFC.  
As the previous poster says - if the long term ambition is to progress to the premiership then they need to start planning now to avoid all the red tape issues that Lon Welsh had.  A move away from the RA ground seems likely unless they can convince the local authority that a stadium revamp would be beneficial.  

Perhaps a continuation of the partnership with Richmond could secure the financial clout!  As I think that Richmond RFC are the main tenants of the RA ground.  

Richmond are only 1 division behind though - so would it still be possible to ground share 2 premiership clubs?

Yeah he played for us last year and did pretty well. Interestingly he didn't dominate though, which I think speaks volumes about the ever improving standard of rugby being played in the championship.

Yeah the stadium remains an issue but I think the most realistic option would be a ground share with Brentford - it's 5 mins up the road and would fulfil all the Premiership entrance criteria. I'd love to see the Athletic ground developed but that would cost tens of millions and, whilst the club is ambitious, I think that may be slightly beyond the realms of possibility ATM.

I'd love to see Richmond back in the top echelons where they belong but, having spoken to a few of the players and supporters, I don't think they yet have the finances in place yet to make a concerted push.

Sharing with Brentford would be the most sensible option, however there is a problem. When Brentford re-develop their ground it is my understanding that they are going into a groundsharing agreement with London Wasps.

I'd love London Scottish to be a development team for Scottish rugby. Unlikely to every happen though given the constraints placed on them by the RFU, which is fair enough - why should the RFU give them funding if they are using it to develop Scottish players??

There's so many young Scottish pro players on the fringes of Edinburgh and Glasgow who would really benefit from some time at London Scottish.

Out of curiosity, how much funding would London Scottish get from the RFU? Compared to say that of its membership (playing and non-playing) and sponsorship.

Would it be possible for the SRU to match it? If this happened would it cause a problem in terms of London Scottish playing in an English league - I would imagine that it would cause waves but could anything be done about it legally?

Would it be acceptable for London Scottish and the SRU to find a backer with deep enough pockets to fund the club as an on-going commercial venture?

A a couple of good options if the Richmond council do not play ball with the athletic stadium would be to investigate moving the team down the A3 to Woking or Guildford. There are legions of rugby fans in that corner of the world and they have no decent professional sports team to draw them In (football or rugby). There is a 6000 capacity non league football stadium in Woking called Kingfield and an opportunity to develop the Spectrum athletics stadium with the council in Guildford. This is right on the main road to London and can be reached in 30 mins from Richmond.

It would also park some tanks on the lawn of Harlequins who train in Guildford at Surrey University.

Ah yes, the Spectrum running track! My old stomping ground! Many happy memories, particularly being drafted to run in the my school's house athletics cup in the 800m (I'm a middle distance man), misjudging the pace and being passed in the last 50 by the entire field...

Guildford is a lovely place, and is begging for a sports team, particularly rugby, to lay down permanent roots. From an SRU perspective, there are loads of Scotland qualified kids at the schools in the surrounding area, and basing London Scottish there, as a kind of weekend academy with a clear development pipeline to the Scotland age-grade sides would be ideal.

Solid8 wrote:
Sharing with Brentford would be the most sensible option, however there is a problem.  When Brentford re-develop their ground it is my understanding that they are going into a groundsharing agreement with London Wasps.

Apparently not!

http://www.espn.co.uk/premiership-2013-14/rugby/story/196999.html

Solid8 wrote:
Out of curiosity, how much funding would London Scottish get from the RFU? Compared to say that of its membership (playing and non-playing) and sponsorship.

Would it be possible for the SRU to match it? If this happened would it cause a problem in terms of London Scottish playing in an English league - I would imagine that it would cause waves but could anything be done about it legally?

As I mentioned in an earlier post, it's my understanding that it's approximately £350k for the championship and around £750k for the Aviva. Now that they have a small surplus, both of those figures could easily be covered by the SRU - especially considering the benefits of a having another top flight Scottish team would have to the international game (which in turn would bring more money into the Murrayfield coffers).

And yes nothing could be done about it legally because LS is a member of both the RFU and SRU, plus European employment law means that the RFU can't force clubs to discriminate between European players (e.g. Scots over English).

TheLittleScot wrote:There is a 6000 capacity non league football stadium in Woking called Kingfield and an opportunity to develop the Spectrum athletics stadium with the council in Guildford. This is right on the main road to London and can be reached in 30 mins from Richmond.

TheLittleScot, unfortunately Kingfield stadium would fall way under the requirements for entry into the Aviva. LS don't have the money to develop it and buy a share. It would also take Scottish away from London and that big supporter base we were talking about. Personally I think it's always a bit ridiculous when teams with London in their name move to different towns and cities. Would have to change the name to Surrey Scottish!

For me Brentford would still probably be the best option, however Crystal Palace NSC, The Den, Loftus Road, Selhurst Park or The Valley could equally be worth exploring.

Oh and they beat Leeds today!

I was under the impression that Lon Welsh explored a ground share with Brentford and as it turned out they didn't see eye to eye. I don't see why that would be any different for the Lon Scots!

I've watched Scottish a few times in recent seasons (usually with Aslongas) and they are still a proud Scottish club.

However, now they are in the RFU Championship they are obliged to have an Academy producing English qualified players. If they don't do that in favour of recruiting Scottish qualified youngsters then the RFU will withdraw funding, and may even relegate them.

Cry 'foul' if you want, but why should the RFU fund what would effectively be a Trojan horse of a rugby club?

The same points were raised when Welsh posters suggested that LW could become a 5th Region, whilst still being part funded by the RFU.

Hound of Harrow wrote:I've watched Scottish a few times in recent seasons (usually with Aslongas) and they are still a proud Scottish club.

However, now they are in the RFU Championship they are obliged to have an Academy producing English qualified players. If they don't do that in favour of recruiting Scottish qualified youngsters then the RFU will withdraw funding, and may even relegate them.

Cry 'foul' if you want, but why should the RFU fund what would effectively be a Trojan horse of a rugby club?

The same points were raised when Welsh posters suggested that LW could become a 5th Region, whilst still being part funded by the RFU.

They can withdraw funding as mentioned above (which could be easily replaced by funding from the SRU) but they can't possibly relegate LS as they would be hung out to dry in court for breaching European employment law. They may not like it but there would be nothing they could do about it.

Interestingly PRL wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they tried to prevent LS being promoted because, as part of their Heineken Cup argument, they have made it very clear that they don't consider different leagues to be exclusive national vehicles - that a league's makeup doesn't matter because they're essentially just collections of teams (no matter how many different countries are represented). Therefore it would be rank hypocrisy for them to attempt to exclude a team based on their union affiliation or player eligibility.

madmaccas wrote:

Hound of Harrow wrote:I've watched Scottish a few times in recent seasons (usually with Aslongas) and they are still a proud Scottish club.

However, now they are in the RFU Championship they are obliged to have an Academy producing English qualified players. If they don't do that in favour of recruiting Scottish qualified youngsters then the RFU will withdraw funding, and may even relegate them.

Cry 'foul' if you want, but why should the RFU fund what would effectively be a Trojan horse of a rugby club?

The same points were raised when Welsh posters suggested that LW could become a 5th Region, whilst still being part funded by the RFU.

They can withdraw funding as mentioned above (which could be easily replaced by funding from the SRU) but they can't possibly relegate LS as they would be hung out to dry in court for breaching European employment law. They may not like it but there would be nothing they could do about it.

Interestingly PRL wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they tried to prevent LS being promoted because, as part of their Heineken Cup argument, they have made it very clear that they don't consider different leagues to be exclusive national vehicles - that a league's makeup doesn't matter because they're essentially just collections of teams (no matter how many different countries are represented). Therefore it would be rank hypocrisy for them to attempt to exclude a team based on their union affiliation or player eligibility.

More like restraint of trade?

If the SRU were serious about funding Scottish to some degree, I'd personally be happier with them joining the Rabo

PS Don't bet against the 'rank hypocrisy'!!