JD2 out of the Ais and out of Wales ta the end of the season??

Reading in the paper this morning that JD2 will miss the rest of the Ais. He will also be leaving Wales for Clermont Auverne.

Also with players like Lea Halfpenny, Alan Wynjones, Sam Warburton, Adam Jones, all out of contract at the end of the season. And maybe being tempted with big money in France.


How will this affect the Welsh squad when selection for International duty come around?

Will it be the fact that is you dont play in Wales you will not be selected for Wales? Or do you think that if Wales want a big performance, a chance to win more 6ns titles, do you think Wales (Gatland) will have (NO CHOICE) but too select play/players? over seas players?

I'm going to go ahead and get this out of the way before any other smartass says it; playing in Wales or not surely now he'll HAVE to pick BOD  I'll get my coat the rest of yiz can get back on topic

I don't remember Clermont ever putting in an offer for someone like BOD. They knows the score.

Another player who said before he "doesn't want to leave" who acted contrary to indications. Every time this happens I lose a lot of admiration for the party concerned. Why not just be honest and admit you're human and will chase the biggest paycheck on offer instead of making a fool of yourself with remarks like this?

If you say you want to stay, you can, simples. Based on his actual decision JD2 didn't want to stay at all. So why the hell say such a thing.

Maj, Gatland has got no problem selecting overseas players. He does it all the time. Phillips had no issue being selected, Hook gets called up (although is seen as a super sub), Lydiate is in, Roberts would have been in if not for injury, Charteris is straight back in the squad now that he's over injury, Gethin was in the squad even when on the bench in Toulon. So it's not so much that he'll be forced to; he will, because that's where the players will be, but he won't mind doing it because he doesn't mind now.

The only thing for me is this fallacy that players improve in France, and that being seen as a good reason to go, I.e. to become better players. No Welsh player has got better while there, IMO. No-one has gone and then been extra awesome for the welsh team. So logic dictates that the worst thing about losing these players to France is that a) their region is weakened but their loss and b) the player is weakened and so the Welsh team is weakened.

Knowsit17 wrote:Another player who said before he "doesn't want to leave" who acted contrary to indications. Every time this happens I lose a lot of admiration for the party concerned. Why not just be honest and admit you're human and will chase the biggest paycheck on offer instead of making a fool of yourself with remarks like this?

If you say you want to stay, you can, simples. Based on his actual decision JD2 didn't want to stay at all. So why the hell say such a thing.

He said he wanted to stay, providing the teams ambitions match his own. Seeing how woeful the Scarlets were pre hec, most likely when he signed, the hec/rcc battles and the rrw/wry bickering I fully understand how this move could be less financially motivated than people think.

Clermont will be playing in a top teir comp next season for sure. Clermont are one of the too handful f european sides. Clermont aee outside off the whole welsh backbiting farce, and his contract may have a release clause. If he stayed, the hec folds with no replacement, and the regions don't sign the paticipation agreement, he could have ended up with chuff all money, no decent weekly cometition, and no release for the extra ai.

To the question at hand, Gats will play him. Wales will uses the regions to develop players to international standards and then ship them off elsewhere. Ous sides are it is cheaper, players play in top class sides, and rival natiins get weaker as our lads take starting shirts off their lads week in week out.

Downside is that the regional fans get shafted, knowing they are just feeder sides. The other Rabo nations get shafted as their team will gain naff all from beating our kids week in week out.

The biggest shame for me at players going to France is that the clubs don't have a traditional French ethos of rugby anymore. They don't play in a traditional French way anymore.

I think French rugby style has always been admired as creative and instinctive and at its best the most incredible to watch.

I would be very happy to have seen Welsh squad members playing for the French clubs of old.

The plus side is that French clubs are keen on welsh players playing international rugby and have no issues with releasing the lads when we require them.

Well, JD1 seems to think that French rugby will improve JD2's game. Not sure about that. The T14 is a tough league, and they don't often play with the opennesspeople associate with French rugby.

Wales were unlucky to lose him early on Saturday. He looked to be taking his Lions form into that game, and then some.

I wish him all the best.

Jonathan Davies is an astute rugby man lets hope he is correct. Having agreed international release it should only lead to an established players consistent improvement but, as you also elude it is a shame French rugby has negated its greatest attribute, flare.

Clermont certainlt have the ability to play some great rugby with Dabies likely partner being Wesley Fofana

maestegmafia wrote:The biggest shame for me at players going to France is that the clubs don't have a traditional French ethos of rugby anymore. They don't play in a traditional French way anymore.

I think French rugby style has always been admired as creative and instinctive and at its best the most incredible to watch.

I would be very happy to have seen Welsh squad members playing for the French clubs of old.

The plus side is that French clubs are keen on welsh players playing international rugby and have no issues with releasing the lads when we require them.

Did you see Perpignan versus Edinburgh in the HC a few weeks back? Perp blew  them away with 20 mins of ridiculous attacking genius, length of the field tries, etc. (with Hook at 10, by the way). No Welsh region or English club could pull that off against that level of opposition.

As for no Welsh players getting any better in France - what  about Gareth Thomas and Steven Wellies Jones? France was the making of them both.

JD2 is already a top player, but he can get even better and the way to do that is by playing with and against other top players regularly. I'm hopeful that the Welsh exiles in France will go from strength to strength.

samuraidragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The biggest shame for me at players going to France is that the clubs don't have a traditional French ethos of rugby anymore. They don't play in a traditional French way anymore.

I think French rugby style has always been admired as creative and instinctive and at its best the most incredible to watch.

I would be very happy to have seen Welsh squad members playing for the French clubs of old.

The plus side is that French clubs are keen on welsh players playing international rugby and have no issues with releasing the lads when we require them.

Did you see Perpignan versus Edinburgh in the HC a few weeks back? Perp blew  them away with 20 mins of ridiculous attacking genius, length of the field tries, etc. (with Hook at 10, by the way). No Welsh region or English club could pull that off against that level of opposition.

As for no Welsh players getting any better in France - what  about Gareth Thomas and Steven Wellies Jones? France was the making of them both.

JD2 is already a top player, but he can get even better and the way to do that is by playing with and against other top players regularly. I'm hopeful that the Welsh exiles in France will go from strength to strength.

They didn't improve in France, but they did get away from all the Tribal slating of them, and get praise from people outside which lead to everyone accepting they were good.

The Saint wrote:I don't remember Clermont ever putting in an offer for someone like BOD. They knows the score.

Very short memory. He has been linked with half the clubs in France at some stage and a few Aussie franchises too.

Transfer fees, least then we could get some money back for the region's efforts.

It's sad, its so sad
It's a sad, sad situation.....

sorry seems to be the hardest word

I think the time has to come to have a 'play in Wales to play for Wales' policy. It won't happen immediately but I would say it has to come. maybe after the WC in 2015.

Otherwise regional rugby will die because all our players will be abroad and the Welsh public will just not turn up to games.

We cannot carry on just being a nursery for England and especially French leagues. All of these players have stated that they would have stayed in Wales if it would have affected their selection for Wales.

It's also not fair on players who do commit to staying in Wales, on lesser salaries, and then see players who have left being selected.

It works for other countries like the SH sides, England and Ireland. We have to make it work here.

A play in wales to play for wales system would be the best option from a regional point of view. After all the more 'stars' at the regions, the more likely the international fan is to turn up to regional games. And the more of them that turn up, the more cash in the regions coffers to have high quality nwq players, whilst still inside the cap, to help develop the welsh lads, and keep the team competitive whilst the internationals are on wales duty.

However I think that the WRU would be less keen on it because -:
a) the cost implications of it, star players command hirer wages than a kiddy who is straight out of the U20s setup
b) the more welsh capped players playing outside of wales, coupled with a nwq cap, means more welsh qualified players playing week in week out, and more options for the national side
c) the more welsh capped players playing in England and France, the less English/French qualified players playing there, which weakens the opposition.
d) the union would not need to deal so much with the regions, over things like player release etc, and can save money that way too.

The WRU are only interested in the national team and paying off the debt on the stadium. It actually appears that they want the Regions to fail!

What they seem to forget is that it is the Regions who actually produce all of the players that the national side use. The development of these players is aided by regular exposure to their idols and icons. The likes of George North and Jon Davies visiting local West Wales schools and motivating future internationals to dedicate themselves to the game will be lost.

There is no doubt also that George and JD2 benefited as young men in the regional set up, mixing and playing with Steven Jones, Regan King, Lamont etc. This situation is repeated at Cardiff, Swansea and Newport. Without strong professional regions this process will not happen and the conveyor belt of young Welsh talent will die out.

Its time for the WRU executives to stop thinking of their bonus payments and start helping forge a solution to the Regional game in Wales and develop a means of keeping as many of these stars playing in Wales.

Yes, and genuine help, rather than a self-serving offer to help the regions 'keep' players when actually it would be the WRU keeping the players. That's exploitation of the financial weakness of the regions masquerading as help.

maestegmafia wrote:The plus side is that French clubs are keen on welsh players playing international rugby and have no issues with releasing the lads when we require them.

Not always, though Bayonne were particularly accommodating in the release of their Welsh player.

Cyril wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The plus side is that French clubs are keen on welsh players playing international rugby and have no issues with releasing the lads when we require them.

Not always, though Bayonne were particularly accommodating in the release of their Welsh player.

 

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Yes, and genuine help, rather than a self-serving offer to help the regions 'keep' players when actually it would be the WRU keeping the players. That's exploitation of the financial weakness of the regions masquerading as help.

I know where you're coming from. If the WRU have the money then fund the Regions sufficiently to keep their Welsh internationals. Then you can have a select only home based players policy.

Until something like that happens Wales look likely to see more players leave.