Shortlist Announced for Fans’ Player and World XV of the Year Awards

Fans can, from today, start voting for their own International Player of the Year and World XV of the Year following the release of a 45-strong shortlist of contenders. To view the full media release please Click Here

http://www.irpa-rugby.com/shortlist-announced-for-fans-player-and-world-xv-of-the-year-awards/

World ranked No.1 New Zealand has the most entries with 15 players, followed by Wales (8), South Africa (6), France (4), Argentina, Samoa (3), Australia, Ireland (2), England, Italy, Fiji (1).

The shortlist for the Fans’ Player and World XV of the Year awards (in order of playing position) is:

Vincent Debaty (Fr), Alex Corbiseiro (Eng), Marcos Ayerza (Arg)
Bismarck Du Plessis (SA), Benjamin Kayser (Fr), Richard Hibbard (Wales)
Juan Figallo (Arg), Adam Jones (Wales), Census Johnston (Samoa)
Sam Whitelock (NZ), Eben Eztebeth (SA), Joe Tekori (Samoa)
James Horwill (Aus), Brodie Retallick (NZ), Alun Wyn Jones (Wales)
Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe (Arg), Louis Picomoles (Fr), Liam Messam (NZ)
Sean O’Brien (Ire), Richie McCaw (NZ), Francois Louw (SA)
Kieran Read (NZ), Sergio Parisse (Italy), Toby Faletau (Wales)
Kahn Fotuali’l (Samoa), Aaron Smith (NZ), Will Genia (Aus),
10. Dan Carter (NZ), Johnny Sexton (Ire), Aaron Cruden (NZ)

11. George North (Wales), Julian Savea (NZ), Sitiveni Sivivatu (NZ)

12. Jamie Roberts (Wales), Ma’a Nonu (NZ), Jean DeVilliers (SA)

13. Wesley Fofana (Fr), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Conrad Smith (NZ)

14. Israel Folau (Aus), Ben Smith (NZ), Napolioni Nalaga (Fiji)

15. Willie Le Roux (SA), Leigh Halfpenny (Wales) Israel Dagg (NZ).

Based on this list I'm going for.

1. Debaty
2. DuPlessis
3. Jones
4. Eztebeth
5. Retallick
6. Lobbe
7. McCaw
8. Read
9. Smith
10 Cruden
11 Savea
12 DeVilliers
13 C Smith
14 B Smith
15 Halfpenny

Hard for me to leave out C Smith at 13 (He plays for the Lions, Canes and Blacks and lives locally, i.e. the perfect player) although could have gone for Fofana. Would have picked others in my list (e.g. Cane as an option at 7 - arguably the top 7 this year).

Just goes to show how fickle fans can be:

How in Gods name does Sivivatu get on the list?

I hope all the English players dont think that they have to play a blinder this week to get on the list.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Just goes to show how fickle fans can be:

How in Gods name does Sivivatu get on the list?

I hope all the English players dont think that they have to play a blinder this week to get on the list.

Sivivatu has been in great form for Clermont for the last couple of seasons.

maestegmafia wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Just goes to show how fickle fans can be:

How in Gods name does Sivivatu get on the list?

I hope all the English players dont think that they have to play a blinder this week to get on the list.

Sivivatu has been in great form for Clermont for the last couple of seasons.

Chris Robshaw hasnt been bad for Harlequins either.

Gatland must have had something to do with that list.

No BOD!!

How has Jamie Roberts got on that list?

He has been injured for most of the season.

A list that starts with Debaty cannot be serious... Who on earth put him there?? Several players out of position as well and a few spelling errors. Very poor.

List must be in error. Didn't see my name listed at inside centre. Suppose I would give my vote there to JDV.

with so many welsh players and so few English players it makes a mockery of the current rankings which has wales at 7th and England at 3rd

whocares wrote:A list that starts with Debaty cannot be serious... Who on earth put him there?? Several players out of position as well and a few spelling errors. Very poor.

Yup. How can a player whose test appearnaces are off the bench, and is second choice at his own club be a contender for a World XV.

'The 45-man shortlist, prepared by a panel of IRPA recently retired international players, features players from 11 nations, all of whom were in international action during the 2013 year.'

Maybe they were still suffering from concussion?

alive555 wrote:with so many welsh players and so few English players it makes a mockery of the current rankings which has wales at 7th and England at 3rd

Any idea which English players should be in? and instead of who?

alive555 wrote:with so many welsh players and so few English players it makes a mockery of the current rankings which has wales at 7th and England at 3rd

Or playing devil's advocate you coudl say that Lancaster is doing an incredible job getting a team of substandard performers to win matches, while Gats is lucky to have so many world class players available to him. Thus the World rankings must tell us that Lancaster is a better coach than Gats?

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

alive555 wrote:with so many welsh players and so few English players it makes a mockery of the current rankings which has wales at 7th and England at 3rd

Or playing devil's advocate you coudl say that Lancaster is doing an incredible job getting a team of substandard performers to win matches, while Gats is lucky to have so many world class players available to him. Thus the World rankings must tell us that Lancaster is a better coach than Gats?

 

To be fair though there are a couple more England players there or there abouts (Cole, Youngs (either?), Robshaw). Then there is Manu would be but has had an injury disrupted season. And the likes of Launchberry (and a couple more possibles) who should be there in a couple of years time. They dont have the profile of some of the Welsh players despite achieving more as a team.

I look forward to hearing Wood and McBride on this list!!

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

alive555 wrote:with so many welsh players and so few English players it makes a mockery of the current rankings which has wales at 7th and England at 3rd

Or playing devil's advocate you coudl say that Lancaster is doing an incredible job getting a team of substandard performers to win matches, while Gats is lucky to have so many world class players available to him. Thus the World rankings must tell us that Lancaster is a better coach than Gats?

I think it's more about how overrated some Welsh players are and in contrast how underrated some English players are.

E.g. if a certain English winger misses a tackle he is hugely criticised, if a certain Welsh winger misses a tackle...... 

England's players are portrayed as worse than they actually are whereas Welsh players are portrayed better.

Case in point none of England's starting backrow in the 6 nations being picked for the Lions.

It's natural for English fans to continually rip apart players. These are the general complaints you hear.

E.g. Robshaw - "£$% captain, not a 7,
Tom Youngs too lightweight, hopeless at the lineout,
Chris Ashton, can't tackle, overrated primadonna,
Owen Farrell, too slow, can't attack,
Geoff Parling , too lightweight,
Joel Tomkins, just pure "£$%, not international class,
Lee Dickson, can't attack, not international class,
Manu Tuilagi - one dimensional show pony who can't pass etc.

beshocked wrote:E.g. if a certain English winger misses a tackle he is hugely criticised, if a certain Welsh winger misses a tackle...... 

Not true we constantly moan about Cuthbert being useless defensively, oh hang on............

Player of the Year has to be Halfpenny

World XV of the year must be
1. Ayerza - destroyed every tighthead who cam up against him at the Rugby Championship)
2. Bismark - Just a complete monster, great at the break down
3. Adam Jones -  scums won us the six nations and the Lions a series
4. Alyn Wyn - Greta all round player who gives evrythin, was great throughout the lions tour and always playes well in a welsh jersey. so important to our team
5. Brodie Retalick very similiar to Alyn Wyn great around the park and loves to do all the hard graft, new Zealand always seem to breed world class locks.
6. Lobbe -  was a one man team through the championship at some games
7. Louw -  great for Bath and South Africa
8. Read -  one of their all time greats, and that's saying something

9. No 9 has stood out to me this year but for pure presentation of the ball to the back i would go with Aaron Smith
10. Sexton - best 10 in the northern hemisphere and was so crucial to that lions tour
11. Savea -  like Bismark = a pure beast combined with skill
12. Jean De Villiers - Captain fantastic, been the core of what has been a great south African team this year.
13. Conrad Smith - everyone knows it
14. Ben Smith - I hate New Zealand who can pluck player like him from nowhere, didn't really know him last year but ffs he is amazing. His hands are like magic and such a skillful player
15. Halfpenny -  Six Nations man of the tournament and lion man of the series, not bad in one year of work is it.

Players who should have been up:
Alberts instead of Picomoles (he is an 8 shoudl have been in the 8 category if anything)
Warburton instead of Mccaw who has been injuref for half of it
Domingo instead of Debaty
Youngs instead of Kayser
Robshaw instead of O'Brien
Morne Steyn instead f Carter who has also been injured for half the year.

is this just going to be one big popularity contest? i.e. who has the biggest fan base.

I recall when Wembley was being built they wanted to name one of the stands after a famous wembley moment so they asked for a fan vote... Scottish fans got wind of it and the entire nation voted for slim jims antics in 67. I think they got the most votes (vote was cancelled). Or so I understand???

I wonder how many non English speaking fans will be able to take part. Even if a chap from Samoa was the best in his position in the world the fact he would have only 100,000 odd people voting for him would probably see someone else nick the award.

Better if it comes from a panel IMO.

Who voted for these players anyhow... Svivatu???

I would say though.. in the (unlikely) event that England beat NZ on Saturday.... shouldn't Chris Robshaw be up there???

Is he the best 7... no, not by a stretch... but for player of the year award he has to be up there. He won 2 MOM awards in the 6N, was probably the player of the tournament after Halfpenny and even against Wales he was a one man army.

Put in another sterling performance against NZ and you wouldn't be able to deny his value.

Spidey,

I disagree with you. The larger majority of rugby fans know the players and value those there the best, they will surely vote accordingly.

It is only when websites that are concentrated in one nation poll do you get a localised popular vote, like the Will Carling as the greatest rugby player in history vote in the 90s.

fa0019 wrote:I would say though.. in the (unlikely) event that England beat NZ on Saturday.... shouldn't Chris Robshaw be up there???

Is he the best 7... no, not by a stretch... but for player of the year award he has to be up there. He won 2 MOM awards in the 6N, was probably the player of the tournament after Halfpenny and even against Wales he was a one man army.

Put in another sterling performance against NZ and you wouldn't be able to deny his value.

Yes, he is well regarded outside of England as a solid and consistent performer and is certainly one of England's best players.

In the vote for best player in the six nations is effort really as high a quality as achievement?

maestegmafia wrote:Spidey,

I disagree with you. The larger majority of rugby fans know the players and value those there the best, they will surely vote accordingly.

It is only when websites that are concentrated in one nation poll do you get a localised popular vote, like the Will Carling as the greatest rugby player in history vote in the 90s.

Although give him credit... he was a fine rugby player in his day. In the late 80s/early 90s he was a top class even world class 12. Horan was better, Gibbs too... but he other than that he had few peers. Still Englands top try scorer in KO RWC history.

He gets a lot of stick by fans around the world, I'm not a fan of his generally but he was a very good player. I gained a lot of respect for his performance in the 2nd half of the RWC SF in 95. Everyone else gave up... he got 2 solo tries and showed that he wasn't going to let defeat define him.... comments post match weren't graceful mind.

My vote was

The shortlist for the Fans’ Player and World XV of the Year awards (in order of playing position) is:

1. Alex Corbiseiro (Eng)
2. Bismarck Du Plessis (SA)
3. Adam Jones (Wales)
4. Sam Whitelock (NZ)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (Wales)
6. Juan Martin Lobbe (Arg)
7. Sean O’Brien (Ire)
8. Kieran Read (NZ)
9. Kahn Fotuali’l (Samoa)
10. Aaron Cruden (NZ)
11. George North (Wales)
12. Jean DeVilliers (SA)

13. Conrad Smith (NZ)

14. Ben Smith (NZ),

15. Israel Dagg (NZ).

maestegmafia wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I would say though.. in the (unlikely) event that England beat NZ on Saturday.... shouldn't Chris Robshaw be up there???

Is he the best 7... no, not by a stretch... but for player of the year award he has to be up there. He won 2 MOM awards in the 6N, was probably the player of the tournament after Halfpenny and even against Wales he was a one man army.

Put in another sterling performance against NZ and you wouldn't be able to deny his value.

Yes, he is well regarded outside of England as a solid and consistent performer and is certainly one of England's best players.

In the vote for best player in the six nations is effort really as high a quality as achievement?

I don't just think he should be defined by his effort. He hardly ever makes a mistake, hardly ever misses a tackle or gives away a penalty and has decent ball carrying skills and ruck work. Without him I think England would suffer.

Player of the year is not about the world's best player necessarily... its about achievement, performance and under those conditions I think he ranks highly.

yeah voting is silly. Its then about numbers of voters per country...

fa0019 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Spidey,

I disagree with you. The larger majority of rugby fans know the players and value those there the best, they will surely vote accordingly.

It is only when websites that are concentrated in one nation poll do you get a localised popular vote, like the Will Carling as the greatest rugby player in history vote in the 90s.

Although give him credit... he was a fine rugby player in his day. In the late 80s/early 90s he was a top class even world class 12. Horan was better, Gibbs too... but he other than that he had few peers. Still Englands top try scorer in KO RWC history.

He gets a lot of stick by fans around the world, I'm not a fan of his generally but he was a very good player. I gained a lot of respect for his performance in the 2nd half of the RWC SF in 95. Everyone else gave up... he got 2 solo tries and showed that he wasn't going to let defeat define him.... comments post match weren't graceful mind.

Carling was an exceptional player and an inspired leader, often highly under rated even in his own country. Too often over shadowed by the regular try scoring glory boys Underwood and Guscott.

But Carling isn't England's greatest centre, let alone player, and certainly when voted greatest rugby player in the history of the game by, (I think it was the Daily Mail, but could have been a broadsheet), the poll was laughable.

This poll is internationally accessible and will likely show that in reflection.

England right up there with Fiji and Italy, you really have to laugh at these lists

maestegmafia wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Spidey,

I disagree with you. The larger majority of rugby fans know the players and value those there the best, they will surely vote accordingly.

It is only when websites that are concentrated in one nation poll do you get a localised popular vote, like the Will Carling as the greatest rugby player in history vote in the 90s.

Although give him credit... he was a fine rugby player in his day. In the late 80s/early 90s he was a top class even world class 12. Horan was better, Gibbs too... but he other than that he had few peers. Still Englands top try scorer in KO RWC history.

He gets a lot of stick by fans around the world, I'm not a fan of his generally but he was a very good player. I gained a lot of respect for his performance in the 2nd half of the RWC SF in 95. Everyone else gave up... he got 2 solo tries and showed that he wasn't going to let defeat define him.... comments post match weren't graceful mind.

Carling was an exceptional player and an inspired leader, often highly under rated even in his own country. Too often over shadowed by the regular try scoring glory boys Underwood and Guscott.

But Carling isn't England's greatest centre, let alone player, and certainly when voted greatest rugby player in the history of the game by, (I think it was the Daily Mail, but could have been a broadsheet), the poll was laughable.

This poll is internationally accessible and will likely show that in reflection.

I agree Maestegmafia... perhaps it was woman's weekly or something???

fa0019 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Spidey,

I disagree with you. The larger majority of rugby fans know the players and value those there the best, they will surely vote accordingly.

It is only when websites that are concentrated in one nation poll do you get a localised popular vote, like the Will Carling as the greatest rugby player in history vote in the 90s.

Although give him credit... he was a fine rugby player in his day. In the late 80s/early 90s he was a top class even world class 12. Horan was better, Gibbs too... but he other than that he had few peers. Still Englands top try scorer in KO RWC history.

He gets a lot of stick by fans around the world, I'm not a fan of his generally but he was a very good player. I gained a lot of respect for his performance in the 2nd half of the RWC SF in 95. Everyone else gave up... he got 2 solo tries and showed that he wasn't going to let defeat define him.... comments post match weren't graceful mind.

Carling was an exceptional player and an inspired leader, often highly under rated even in his own country. Too often over shadowed by the regular try scoring glory boys Underwood and Guscott.

But Carling isn't England's greatest centre, let alone player, and certainly when voted greatest rugby player in the history of the game by, (I think it was the Daily Mail, but could have been a broadsheet), the poll was laughable.

This poll is internationally accessible and will likely show that in reflection.

I agree Maestegmafia... perhaps it was woman's weekly or something???

Maybe the late Princess of Wales was the only person polled...



(EDIT - Not sure if that is the correct spelling of polled that I intended...?)

fa0019 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I would say though.. in the (unlikely) event that England beat NZ on Saturday.... shouldn't Chris Robshaw be up there???

Is he the best 7... no, not by a stretch... but for player of the year award he has to be up there. He won 2 MOM awards in the 6N, was probably the player of the tournament after Halfpenny and even against Wales he was a one man army.

Put in another sterling performance against NZ and you wouldn't be able to deny his value.

Yes, he is well regarded outside of England as a solid and consistent performer and is certainly one of England's best players.

In the vote for best player in the six nations is effort really as high a quality as achievement?

I don't just think he should be defined by his effort. He hardly ever makes a mistake, hardly ever misses a tackle or gives away a penalty and has decent ball carrying skills and ruck work. Without him I think England would suffer.

Player of the year is not about the world's best player necessarily... its about achievement, performance and under those conditions I think he ranks highly.

I always considered a players exceptional ability to be paramount and Robshaw is not spectacular, many England fans don't really consider him their best openside option, what with Kvesic and Armitage playing so well...!

If you where to vote on England's most valuable player last season it would more likely be Dan Cole, Ben Youngs, Parling or Tuilagi who were most deserved. Not the captain who was chastised for poor captaining decisions in a number of games.

The list is a complete joke, but then again, these lists always are.

People shouldn't take them too seriously!

maestegmafia that's where you are wrong. Robshaw is one of the most underrated players in the England side. He's criticised more so for his captaincy than his play.

Like Kelly Brown and Tom Wood he was very unlucky not to make the Lions tour.

Brown was one of Scotland's best players in the 6 nations despite being played out of position.

Wood played very well in the 6 nations but suffered a bit when played out of position.

I still think it was farcical that none of these three got picked for the Lions tour.

blackcanelion wrote:Based on this list I'm going for.

1. Debaty
2. DuPlessis
3. Jones
4. Eztebeth
5. Retallick
6. Lobbe
7. McCaw
8. Read
9. Smith
10 Cruden
11 Savea
12 DeVilliers
13 C Smith
14 B Smith
15 Halfpenny

Hard for me to leave out C Smith at 13 (He plays for the Lions, Canes and Blacks and lives locally, i.e. the perfect player) although could have gone for Fofana. Would have picked others in my list (e.g. Cane as an option at 7 - arguably the top 7 this year).

Fofana is a 12 and a good better than DeVilliers so could slot in there?

funnyExiledScot wrote:I look forward to hearing Wood and McBride on this list!!

Yawn. You always make the same jokes over and over again?

Cyril wrote:The list is a complete joke, but then again, these lists always are.

People shouldn't take them too seriously!

Anything set up by the IRB is a joke really, Mccaw and Carter are their on merite and not for PLayer fot he eyar ebcuase they have hardly played. it's a joke just like the IRB World Ranking.

GunsGerms wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I look forward to hearing Wood and McBride on this list!!

Yawn. You always make the same jokes over and over again?

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

Do you think BOD should be on the shortlist?

maestegmafia wrote:My vote was

The shortlist for the Fans’ Player and World XV of the Year awards (in order of playing position) is:

1. Alex Corbiseiro (Eng)
2. Bismarck Du Plessis (SA)
3. Adam Jones (Wales)
4. Sam Whitelock (NZ)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (Wales)
6. Juan Martin  Lobbe (Arg)
7. Sean O’Brien (Ire)
8. Kieran Read (NZ)
9. Kahn Fotuali’l (Samoa)
10. Aaron Cruden (NZ)
11. George North (Wales)
12. Jean DeVilliers (SA)
13. Conrad Smith (NZ)
14. Ben Smith (NZ),
15.  Israel Dagg (NZ).

That's exactly what I'd go for as well. Halfpenny is unlucky, but in terms of general play (excluding the kicking) Dagg edges it. That really is some team.

GunsGerms wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:Based on this list I'm going for.

1. Debaty
2. DuPlessis
3. Jones
4. Eztebeth
5. Retallick
6. Lobbe
7. McCaw
8. Read
9. Smith
10 Cruden
11 Savea
12 DeVilliers
13 C Smith
14 B Smith
15 Halfpenny

Hard for me to leave out C Smith at 13 (He plays for the Lions, Canes and Blacks and lives locally, i.e. the perfect player) although could have gone for Fofana. Would have picked others in my list (e.g. Cane as an option at 7 - arguably the top 7 this year).

Fofana is a 12 and a good better than DeVilliers so could slot in there?

Lets not generalise before they play each other. 

My team
1. Debaty
2. DuPlessis
3. Jones
4. Eztebeth
5. Retallick
6. Lobbe
7. McCaw
8. Read
9. Smith
10 Cruden
11 Savea
12 DeVilliers
13 C Smith
14 B Smith
15 Halfpenny could Argue Dagg is better attacking fullback but 1/2p is a good kicker so edges it

Jhamer25 wrote:

Cyril wrote:The list is a complete joke, but then again, these lists always are.

People shouldn't take them too seriously!

Anything set up by the IRB is a joke really, Mccaw and Carter are their on merite and not for PLayer fot he eyar ebcuase they have hardly played. it's a joke just like the IRB World Ranking.

Nothing wrong with the rankings system mate. They're based on actual results rather than opinion.

Anyway, that's another subject entirely

Cyril wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:

Cyril wrote:The list is a complete joke, but then again, these lists always are.

People shouldn't take them too seriously!

Anything set up by the IRB is a joke really, Mccaw and Carter are their on merite and not for PLayer fot he eyar ebcuase they have hardly played. it's a joke just like the IRB World Ranking.

Nothing wrong with the rankings system mate. They're based on actual results rather than opinion.

Anyway, that's another subject entirely

I agreee

funnyExiledScot wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:My vote was

The shortlist for the Fans’ Player and World XV of the Year awards (in order of playing position) is:

1. Alex Corbiseiro (Eng)
2. Bismarck Du Plessis (SA)
3. Adam Jones (Wales)
4. Sam Whitelock (NZ)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (Wales)
6. Juan Martin  Lobbe (Arg)
7. Sean O’Brien (Ire)
8. Kieran Read (NZ)
9. Kahn Fotuali’l (Samoa)
10. Aaron Cruden (NZ)
11. George North (Wales)
12. Jean DeVilliers (SA)
13. Conrad Smith (NZ)
14. Ben Smith (NZ),
15.  Israel Dagg (NZ).

That's exactly what I'd go for as well. Halfpenny is unlucky, but in terms of general play (excluding the kicking) Dagg edges it. That really is some team.

Halfpenny is a very good player and a top quality goal kicker who very very few can rival but Dagg is a sublime player and in my opinion was an easy selection.

No Sean Lamont?  

maestegmafia wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I would say though.. in the (unlikely) event that England beat NZ on Saturday.... shouldn't Chris Robshaw be up there???

Is he the best 7... no, not by a stretch... but for player of the year award he has to be up there. He won 2 MOM awards in the 6N, was probably the player of the tournament after Halfpenny and even against Wales he was a one man army.

Put in another sterling performance against NZ and you wouldn't be able to deny his value.

Yes, he is well regarded outside of England as a solid and consistent performer and is certainly one of England's best players.

In the vote for best player in the six nations is effort really as high a quality as achievement?

I think youve answered your own question, there Maesteg:

From a completely neutrals perspective, no Robshaw is not the fastest,best fetching, etc etc no 7 in the World. But when I watch this player (from 10,000 miles away) I see the hardest working forward in rugby in the Northern Hemisphere, this guy gets the utmost of respect from me.....an old ex openside.

I should also say that I view Warren Gatland as one of the best craftsman rugby coaches in the World, How he didnt find a spot for Robshaw in that Lions team absolutely beggars belief.

Effort is Huge..

aucklandlaurie wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Just goes to show how fickle fans can be:

How in Gods name does Sivivatu get on the list?

I hope all the English players dont think that they have to play a blinder this week to get on the list.

Sivivatu has been in great form for Clermont for the last couple of seasons.

Chris Robshaw hasnt been bad for Harlequins either.

Or for England, as it happens

maestegmafia wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I would say though.. in the (unlikely) event that England beat NZ on Saturday.... shouldn't Chris Robshaw be up there???

Is he the best 7... no, not by a stretch... but for player of the year award he has to be up there. He won 2 MOM awards in the 6N, was probably the player of the tournament after Halfpenny and even against Wales he was a one man army.

Put in another sterling performance against NZ and you wouldn't be able to deny his value.

Yes, he is well regarded outside of England as a solid and consistent performer and is certainly one of England's best players.

In the vote for best player in the six nations is effort really as high a quality as achievement?

I don't just think he should be defined by his effort. He hardly ever makes a mistake, hardly ever misses a tackle or gives away a penalty and has decent ball carrying skills and ruck work. Without him I think England would suffer.

Player of the year is not about the world's best player necessarily... its about achievement, performance and under those conditions I think he ranks highly.

I always considered a players exceptional ability to be paramount and Robshaw is not spectacular, many England fans don't really consider him their best openside option, what with  Kvesic and Armitage playing so well...!

If you where to vote on England's most valuable player last season it would more likely be Dan Cole, Ben Youngs, Parling or Tuilagi who were most deserved. Not the captain who was chastised for poor captaining decisions in a number of games.

Not for Gloucester... and the difference between looking good behind Sheridan, Bruno, Hayman, Botha, Suta/Shaw/whoever, and alongside 2 of Lobbe/Masoe/Niekirk/Juan Smith/ you get the picture and looking good behind an England pack that has been Corbs/Mako/Marler, Youngs, Cole, Parling, Launchbury and often Wood at 8 or Lawes at 6 is huge. And as Armitage's form has been at Club level, looking good behind Marler (often Lambert), Gray/Buchanan/now Ward, Collier, Easter at 6, Robson is a bloody miracle

ChequeredJersey wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Just goes to show how fickle fans can be:

How in Gods name does Sivivatu get on the list?

I hope all the English players dont think that they have to play a blinder this week to get on the list.

Sivivatu has been in great form for Clermont for the last couple of seasons.

Chris Robshaw hasnt been bad for Harlequins either.

Or for England, as it happens

Chequered, that was me doing subtle.

Frak subtle

aucklandlaurie wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Just goes to show how fickle fans can be:

How in Gods name does Sivivatu get on the list?

I hope all the English players dont think that they have to play a blinder this week to get on the list.

Sivivatu has been in great form for Clermont for the last couple of seasons.

Chris Robshaw hasnt been bad for Harlequins either.

Or for England, as it happens

Chequered, that was me doing subtle.

He hasn't been bad for Club or country, but he isn't a great openside, he isn't the best around. He isnt in the top five opensides in the NH. He was considered behind Tipuric, SOB and Warburton for the Lions.

SOB is the only openside to make this list from the NH, so it is no surprise he wasn't on the list