England-NZ post match discussion

First topic message reminder :

If only manu had been fit. England would have won today. This England team is on the verge of something special.

What was with all the penalties? Couldn't watch the game so just saw highlights on YouTube. All i saw was Farrell kicking points. Discipline must have been poor. Was that England try ok? Seemed like the scorer was offside.

Taylorman wrote:

The pick and go rugby site records the 4 point win plus bonus point for 4 tries/ loss within 7 for every match.

Incredible record this year, but feel like I'm missing something here. NZ haven't got the four-try bonus point in every game. Didn't get it today.

EDIT: get it now. You just meant that the site records whether they have got it, not that they did get it in every game. Sorry.

ebop wrote:What was with all the penalties? Couldn't watch the game so just saw highlights on YouTube. All i saw was Farrell kicking points. Discipline must have been poor. Was that England try ok? Seemed like the scorer was offside.

Launchbury was behind the offside line. Robshaw was offside but Launchbury beat him to the ball anyway.

You can't be up for every game Kia. The season is getting longer and longer and performing at the Ellis Park level is probably not possible twice in a blue moon. NZ did what they needed to do, despite starving themselves of ball for some curious reason. It seems part of Hansen's plan, but I don't really get it. Perhaps the belief is that defending is easier than attacking now. Hard to say.

Tough on Smith as you are right about England disrupting the ball. I wouldn't mind them using this approach but at the moment they're just not being pinged for basic, obvious infringements. I don't know why. We've got guys blatantly joining from the side, not binding to anyone and kicking at the ball under the 9's nose. I'm at a loss as to why it's being allowed. But perhaps if it is, we should just do it too. By contrast, did you see the Ireland v Aussie game? very super-rugby-esque interpretation. Very strict. Frankly England have so many people at the breakdown, they've got nobody left on attack so in effect it grinds the game into a sort of dull stalemate.

Personally I'd like to see Nonu taking the line and recycling more and giving up with so many cute kicks. Piutau as well seems to be under instructions to kick it as soon as possible.

thomh wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

The pick and go rugby site records the 4 point win plus bonus point for 4 tries/ loss within 7 for every match.

Incredible record this year, but feel like I'm missing something here. NZ haven't got the four-try bonus point in every game. Didn't get it today.

No they get 4 points for the win. They had 6 wins during the year with 4 or more tries and 3 with 3 tries- this one is one of them- no bonus point.
The interesting thing is not one match was at risk of a loss (less than 7 point deficit) at the final whistle. Besides winning them all, winning before time is up- all 13, is incredible I would have thought- especially since it was 2 vs SA, 3 vs Oz, 3 vs France and 1 x England- no cliffhangers.

With two new trophy's picked up on this tour, do NZ now hold all trophies we compete for again?

Linebreaker wrote:

It's the sort of thing you hear said in a pub when you're walking by a group of fans (talking nonsense) carrying some beers... and you spill a little froth from one glass upon hearing it.

thought that was you LB...look like youve lost weight! 

I think this young England team showed that they have a lot of potential but a long way to go.... You have to expect injuries and ok they have say 4-5 first choice injuries to their backline but you have to be able to adapt and the replacements have to be able to bring the goods.

NZ won the rwc with their 4th choice flyhalf... That's a championship team.

However this team is young and guys like twelvetrees really competed. He didn't look out of place at all and in fact was a real standout for england.

Once Manu is back and they put some real pace in their backline then they will be very troublesome home and away to anybody. I certainly think they are good enough to win at least a game in NZ if they bring their first choice players fit and ready.

This NZ pack remember took on the boks this year and did very well yet England dominated upfront. Until Hartley came off injured NZ were in 2nd place. Youngs substitution changed the game with what 4 out of 6 lineouts lost, one of which for the match winning try and he got turned over once or twice too... All in 20 mins.

England have to look deeply into youngs and say simply, he will suffer in some games and with his lineouts erratic you can't gamble on such an important part of your attacking play. Fact, England had the worst lineout retention rate in the 6N with Youngs starting over an injured Hartley.

He's the smallest guy on the team when he should be one of the larger guys. Premiership player of the year is great but schalk Brits only got 5 caps for the boks. There is a reason for that. Packs are seldom above 850kg in club rugby.... Most test packs these days are closing in on 920kg and the boks are often closing in on 940kg.

From schalk Brits, andy titterall, lee mears, deon Fourie, tom youngs etc. they all suffer from the same issue and that issue doesn't go away. They get exploited at test rugby and it's why with hooker being such a vital position these players are not suited for test rugby.

Question on England's try.

If Robshaw is admittedly in an off-side position, but miraculously doesn't touch the ball until Launchbury touches down, then isn't he obstructing the All Blacks defense illegally? Given than the AB's can't get to the ball given that he is in the way?

Also looks awfully like he's unbound from the scrum before the ball is out to me.

Interesting that the TMO only really looked at the grounding. I thought they were there to review any infringement in the scoring phase?

There was no one for Robshaw to be impeding though GE- no one was there in front of him. In looking at it again its kicked into an AB then goes back- from memory that puts everyone onside...

GE unless their was a kiwi competing then no... And there as no kiwi in sight. It was a fair try

Hartley clearly scored the previous disallowed one that led to that scrum anyway, so I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it.

clearly? Every view i saw there was no way you could see the ball so 'clearly' is 'clearly' an exaggeration

The ball hit the deck about a foot before the line and he then slid forwards by plenty more than that. There was no angle showing the ball down over the line, but I don't think there's any real doubt that he got there.

Taylorman wrote:There was no one for Robshaw to be impeding though GE- no one was there in front of him. In looking at it again its kicked into an AB then goes back- from memory that puts everyone onside...

Oh but there is someone behind him. Check the replay again. It looks clear cut obstruction to me.

"We were only 1 player away from being No.1"

I remember a time you had 16 players on the pitch it cost around 10k...














'cause it's not allowed


#wecantcountorscoremoretriesoratleastenoughtowinthegametodayetcnevergoingtobenumberoneanywayevenifyoudidifyouknowwhatimean

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Taylorman wrote:There was no one for Robshaw to be impeding though GE- no one was there in front of him. In looking at it again its kicked into an AB then goes back- from memory that puts everyone onside...

Oh but there is someone behind him. Check the replay again. It looks clear cut obstruction to me.

GE it did go to the video ref and Joubert looked at it multiple times on the big screen too and thought it was a fine try. If the ref and the video ref after mins of deliberation agree its legal, it's legal.

oh...good to see jouberts reffing isnt to be questioned in this case. Elsewhere hes been awful weve been told.

Guess that RWC final was fine too then huh?

We've seen quite a few unquestionable English try's this AI season. Twickenham must almost be a fortress.

NZ often have 16 players on the field at any one time. It is called the refferee.  

But today how ever NZ won by 8 points  to a team with no where near the amounmatt:erm:   

Did England manage to score a try when NZ were down to 14 men? I can't quite recall the timing.

no it was read that gave the ball to the scorer, who between himself and the guy in front of him managed to scorch their way to the try line..

Sort of scoring from the obstruction created by Robshaw? Interesting.

I think the AB's will be disappointed with the refereeing. I guess there's a process they'll follow that wont be public. At the end of the day their biggest strength was their ability to focus on what they could do.

Yep. I don't want to mention it too much because there's not many receptive to it here.

But I just feel like visiting teams to twickenham have the right to expect a level playing field. But for whatever reason the officials don't seem to see it that way.

 

You're funny.

Oh for god sake man...yet another thread turned to sh$t....

yeah agree... ciao for now

Congratulations to NZ, a fully deserved win.

England will rue the poor defensive organisation that NZ capitalised on at the beginning of the match, it made the task more difficult than it needed to be.  They came back strong after that though through their lineout, scrum, breakdown work and general aggression in the tight.

There wasn't much outside that however, and the loss of the lineout as probably their prime weapon early in the second half (failing at key moments after), along with much of the team looking like they'd given their all sustaining their effort to keep NZ in check by the last quarter, meant that NZ finished the game showing their all-court superiority and where England need to develop.

fa0019 wrote:I think this young England team showed that they have a lot of potential but a long way to go.... You have to expect injuries and ok they have say 4-5 first choice injuries to their backline but you have to be able to adapt and the replacements have to be able to bring the goods.

NZ won the rwc with their 4th choice flyhalf... That's a championship team.

However this team is young and guys like twelvetrees really competed. He didn't look out of place at all and in fact was a real standout for england.

Once Manu is back and they put some real pace in their backline then they will be very troublesome home and away to anybody. I certainly think they are good enough to win at least a game in NZ if they bring their first choice players fit and ready.

This NZ pack remember took on the boks this year and did very well yet England dominated upfront. Until Hartley came off injured NZ were in 2nd place. Youngs substitution changed the game with what 4 out of 6 lineouts lost, one of which for the match winning try and he got turned over once or twice too... All in 20 mins.

England have to look deeply into youngs and say simply, he will suffer in some games and with his lineouts erratic you can't gamble on such an important part of your attacking play. Fact, England had the worst lineout retention rate in the 6N with Youngs starting over an injured Hartley.

He's the smallest guy on the team when he should be one of the larger guys. Premiership player of the year is great but schalk Brits only got 5 caps for the boks. There is a reason for that. Packs are seldom above 850kg in club rugby.... Most test packs these days are closing in on 920kg and the boks are often closing in on 940kg.

From schalk Brits, andy titterall, lee mears, deon Fourie, tom youngs etc. they all suffer from the same issue and that issue doesn't go away. They get exploited at test rugby and it's why with hooker being such a vital position these players are not suited for test rugby.

Bluddy hell this is really pathetic.
I'm a welsh fan and i'm the only one sticking up for Tom Youngs here.
All that i have highlighted is absolute nonsense. You seem to forget that in the Six Nations Tom Youngs was immense around the park and probably made more line breaks than nay other hooker in the Tournament; at that time was his throwin in the best = no but he was great around the park, ball carrying, gaining ground and his size had nothing to do with it.
Then he was one of the stars in the Lions team with a work rate as good as the back row. He was put in the Lions team because Best was having a shocker when throwing in, Hibbard didn't stand out until the last test ad Tom Youngs was consistent int he line out.
Ok he isn't doing great throwing in at the moment but he hasn't been Hooker for long and has shown that he can throw in. Look at Best before and during the Lions tour and no look at him = Mr consistent.

Players go through bad pathetic sand i hate it when fans turn on there own players with a click of there fingers.
it's ridiculous
You should be happy two have to good hookers, but instead he must be dropped completely from the set up because he isn't having a great run of games.  

Agree with most of that, but fa0019 isn't an England fan.

thomh wrote:Agree with most of that, but fa0019 isn't an England fan.

Oh right but still he couldn't be more wrong about Tom Youngs.
It's not just him I aimed it at though, half the English posters on here have been slating Youngs tonight and it's just not on.

majesticimperialman wrote:NZ often have 16 players on the field at any one time. It is called the refferee.  

But today how ever NZ won by 8 points  to a team with no where near the amounmatt   

Can anyone translate this? English or Welsh would be fine... French or Spanish  would be do-able

What's clear is that for the majority of the game te England pack had the upper hand and had NZ in all sorts of trouble. Yes, we untimely lacked the backs to take full advantage. A big part of the jigsaw will be the return of Manu, throw in Barrett, yarde and possibly wade all of whom were injured and I believe we have a good chance of beating NZ in the summer

Evnin guys.

Well what a game, at no stage during that game did I ever think the ABs would lose, and once again the old mantra the team that scores more tries than the opposition will win.but I enjoyed it immensely.

England turned up to play today especially Hartley, Lawes and Robshaw. and they scored a try, not a pretty try but at least it was a try.

Also an excellant game by Craig Joubert, (one or two that I thought were doubtful) but hes miles ahead of any other referee that the ABs get.

In terms of New Zealanders performance this morning the guy who I thought stood out for me was Maa Nonu, this guy has played some woeful rugby this year, but today he just went about his job with a combination of rhythm and power.

Well played England and no doubt you look forward to rectifying the ledger next year, oh and one final thing, isnt rugby a far more complete spectacle and demonstration of skill and speed when the playing surface is conducive to these guys showing what they can do, Twickenhams surface is quality and deserves to have the top teams playing on it.

I think it was more than one or two Laurie and Nigel Owens put in an exceptional performance at Ellis Park.

The pitch and the stadium are top quality and until MS sorts out its pitch problems Twickenham is the premier stadium in Europe and probably Ireland after that, which pains me to say as I've been to the MS and it's a magnificent stadium but the pitches too often are just not up to scratch and that makes up a big part of the overall experience.

Nigel Owens is the best referee, by quite some distance in Europe. I havent seen the Ireland Australia game yet (work), but I do know the score , so it might pay if I dont go over and ask the Irish boys how Chris Pollock went.

GloriousEmpire wrote:You can't be up for every game Kia. The season is getting longer and longer and performing at the Ellis Park level is probably not possible twice in a blue moon. NZ did what they needed to do, despite starving themselves of ball for some curious reason. It seems part of Hansen's plan, but I don't really get it. Perhaps the belief is that defending is easier than attacking now. Hard to say.

Tough on Smith as you are right about England disrupting the ball. I wouldn't mind them using this approach but at the moment they're just not being pinged for basic, obvious infringements. I don't know why. We've got guys blatantly joining from the side, not binding to anyone and kicking at the ball under the 9's nose.  I'm at a loss as to why it's being allowed. But perhaps if it is, we should just do it too.  By contrast, did you see the Ireland v Aussie game? very super-rugby-esque interpretation. Very strict. Frankly England have so many people at the breakdown, they've got nobody left on attack so in effect it grinds the game into a sort of dull stalemate.

Personally I'd like to see Nonu taking the line and recycling more and giving up with so many cute kicks. Piutau as well seems to be under instructions to kick it as soon as possible.  

That was my point GE. Ellis Park required us to be at our absolute peak. We were in terms of physical condition and mental strength. You can't pull those kinds of performances out of a bag. We were switched on at Twickenham and got two crucial tries in that opening quarter. Then we didn't maintain that intensity and the last quarter showed how to combat this England side by punching up through the middle and committing more numbers to the rucks. I think though this style of contrasts are great preparation. We're not going to get teams like SA at Ellis Park or Australia at Brisbane playing the game we want to play it allowing us to concede points but scoring more. These games where our ball is disrupted and the space is closed down in midfield is what we need to let management look at ways to counter it because for large parts of yesterday's game we were unable to counter it.

And if Carter had not had to go of early it would have been a bigger win. If wishes were horses beggars would ride

The problem for the ABs is that they play too much super rugby which is just chucking the ball around and don't do defense. That's why they struggle to score tries etc when they play NH teams. No focus on forward play.

Sorry had to repeat that because it annoys me so much.

I like it that others are starting to agree that NZ have been kicking too much - it nearly cost us today. A Smith obviously has a problem playing England.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Manu, the finest center Samoa has produced.

No way

Stanley, Bunce, Iremia and Umaga were much better. NZ produces better Samoans than England. Hell we even grow our own.

Jhamer25 wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I think this young England team showed that they have a lot of potential but a long way to go.... You have to expect injuries and ok they have say 4-5 first choice injuries to their backline but you have to be able to adapt and the replacements have to be able to bring the goods.

NZ won the rwc with their 4th choice flyhalf... That's a championship team.

However this team is young and guys like twelvetrees really competed. He didn't look out of place at all and in fact was a real standout for england.

Once Manu is back and they put some real pace in their backline then they will be very troublesome home and away to anybody. I certainly think they are good enough to win at least a game in NZ if they bring their first choice players fit and ready.

This NZ pack remember took on the boks this year and did very well yet England dominated upfront. Until Hartley came off injured NZ were in 2nd place. Youngs substitution changed the game with what 4 out of 6 lineouts lost, one of which for the match winning try and he got turned over once or twice too... All in 20 mins.

England have to look deeply into youngs and say simply, he will suffer in some games and with his lineouts erratic you can't gamble on such an important part of your attacking play. Fact, England had the worst lineout retention rate in the 6N with Youngs starting over an injured Hartley.

He's the smallest guy on the team when he should be one of the larger guys. Premiership player of the year is great but schalk Brits only got 5 caps for the boks. There is a reason for that. Packs are seldom above 850kg in club rugby.... Most test packs these days are closing in on 920kg and the boks are often closing in on 940kg.

From schalk Brits, andy titterall, lee mears, deon Fourie, tom youngs etc. they all suffer from the same issue and that issue doesn't go away. They get exploited at test rugby and it's why with hooker being such a vital position these players are not suited for test rugby.

Bluddy hell this is really pathetic.
I'm a welsh fan and i'm the only one sticking up for Tom Youngs here.
All that i have highlighted is absolute nonsense. You seem to forget that in the Six Nations Tom Youngs was immense around the park and probably made more line breaks than nay other hooker in the Tournament; at that time was his throwin in the best =  no but he was great around the park, ball carrying, gaining ground and his size had nothing to do with it.
Then he was one of the stars in the Lions team with a work rate as good as the back row. He was put in the Lions team because Best was having a shocker when throwing in, Hibbard didn't stand out until the last test ad Tom Youngs was consistent int he line out.
Ok he isn't doing great throwing in at the moment but he hasn't been Hooker for long and has shown that he can throw in. Look at Best before and during the Lions tour and no look at him =  Mr consistent.

Players go through bad pathetic sand i hate it when fans turn on there own players with a click of there fingers.
it's ridiculous
You should be happy two have to good hookers, but instead he must be dropped completely from the set up because he isn't having a great run of games.  

As someone else said mate, I'm not english. No worries on that mind.

Look I'm not saying he's not a good player but he is very inconsistent and that is not acceptable in test rugby especially at hooker and flyhalf.
He did ok at the lions because he had Adam jones next to him and was facing the weakest front five in tier one rugby.  Against NZ or the boks he'd have been smashed.

All I'm says facts... He'd lost 4 lineouts out of 6 in 15 mins yesterday, was turned over once and the scrum started to creak when Hartley went off. Against AUS the England lineout was dire and England had the worst lineout retention rates in last seasons 6N.

Hibbard during the lions tour couldn't hit a barn door for love or money... That's why youngs got the nod in the first 2 tests.

There is this forever debate about hookers and mobility at test rugby, the biggest sides can sometimes get away with mobile hookers against lesser packs but against their big packs, Wales, sa, NZ etc it's always a disaster.

Youngs plays at Leicester, a big pack team right? He faces much smaller packs at club rugby. He looks impressive at club rugby no doubt given he was player of the year in the AP least season.

It reminds me of lee mears in huge 09lions tour. He was looking great against the SR teams who were far smaller then their bok counterparts by literally 10kg a man. It was a disaster... Vickery got the blame but it's more likely due to a Mighty Mouse being next to him.

In SA we gave schalk Brits 5 caps... Sure he could break like a centre but the boks need their hooker to be solid in the tight, consistent in the lineout and in that he was at best the 4th best hooker in SA.... And he's better then youngs.

Titterall, mears, youngs... History repeats itself time and again.

Lineout accuracy is paramount. It's the only job relying entirely on the hooker. U can't be in a situation where the opposition are happy to risk conceding penalties in your half, knowing they stand a good chance of winning line out against the head.

nganboy wrote:The problem for the ABs is that they play too much super rugby which is just chucking the ball around and don't do defense. That's why they struggle to score tries etc when they play NH teams. No focus on forward play.

Sorry had to repeat that because it annoys me so much.

I like it that others are starting to agree that NZ have been kicking too much - it nearly cost us today. A Smith obviously has a problem playing England.

Erm, not true. The tries yesterday and last week were as good as anything we scored in the RC. The NH sides tend to be very narrow and flat (offside) and shut down the space quickly. I though NZ did a great job of staying patient and running the gaps. Even Franks managed it. But in reality referees shouldn't be afraid to penalise every single phase and yellow card the first offender they spot when their patience wears out. They're being allowed to persistently be offside just by weight of numbers of offences.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I think it was more than one or two Laurie and Nigel Owens put in an exceptional performance at Ellis Park.

The pitch and the stadium are top quality and until MS sorts out its pitch problems Twickenham is the premier stadium in Europe and probably Ireland after that, which pains me to say as I've been to the MS and it's a magnificent stadium but the pitches too often are just not up to scratch and that makes up a big part of the overall experience.

Wasn't there talk of the MS having a 4G artificial pitch? I guess everyones watching how the Blues go at the Arms Park.

Anyone know anymore about this?

fa0019 wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I think this young England team showed that they have a lot of potential but a long way to go.... You have to expect injuries and ok they have say 4-5 first choice injuries to their backline but you have to be able to adapt and the replacements have to be able to bring the goods.

NZ won the rwc with their 4th choice flyhalf... That's a championship team.

However this team is young and guys like twelvetrees really competed. He didn't look out of place at all and in fact was a real standout for england.

Once Manu is back and they put some real pace in their backline then they will be very troublesome home and away to anybody. I certainly think they are good enough to win at least a game in NZ if they bring their first choice players fit and ready.

This NZ pack remember took on the boks this year and did very well yet England dominated upfront. Until Hartley came off injured NZ were in 2nd place. Youngs substitution changed the game with what 4 out of 6 lineouts lost, one of which for the match winning try and he got turned over once or twice too... All in 20 mins.

England have to look deeply into youngs and say simply, he will suffer in some games and with his lineouts erratic you can't gamble on such an important part of your attacking play. Fact, England had the worst lineout retention rate in the 6N with Youngs starting over an injured Hartley.

He's the smallest guy on the team when he should be one of the larger guys. Premiership player of the year is great but schalk Brits only got 5 caps for the boks. There is a reason for that. Packs are seldom above 850kg in club rugby.... Most test packs these days are closing in on 920kg and the boks are often closing in on 940kg.

From schalk Brits, andy titterall, lee mears, deon Fourie, tom youngs etc. they all suffer from the same issue and that issue doesn't go away. They get exploited at test rugby and it's why with hooker being such a vital position these players are not suited for test rugby.

Bluddy hell this is really pathetic.
I'm a welsh fan and i'm the only one sticking up for Tom Youngs here.
All that i have highlighted is absolute nonsense. You seem to forget that in the Six Nations Tom Youngs was immense around the park and probably made more line breaks than nay other hooker in the Tournament; at that time was his throwin in the best =  no but he was great around the park, ball carrying, gaining ground and his size had nothing to do with it.
Then he was one of the stars in the Lions team with a work rate as good as the back row. He was put in the Lions team because Best was having a shocker when throwing in, Hibbard didn't stand out until the last test ad Tom Youngs was consistent int he line out.
Ok he isn't doing great throwing in at the moment but he hasn't been Hooker for long and has shown that he can throw in. Look at Best before and during the Lions tour and no look at him =  Mr consistent.

Players go through bad pathetic sand i hate it when fans turn on there own players with a click of there fingers.
it's ridiculous
You should be happy two have to good hookers, but instead he must be dropped completely from the set up because he isn't having a great run of games.  

As someone else said mate, I'm not english. No worries on that mind.

Look I'm not saying he's not a good player but he is very inconsistent and that is not acceptable in test rugby especially at hooker and flyhalf.
He did ok at the lions because he had Adam jones next to him and was facing the weakest front five in tier one rugby.  Against NZ or the boks he'd have been smashed.

All I'm says facts... He'd lost 4 lineouts out of 6 in 15 mins yesterday, was turned over once and the scrum started to creak when Hartley went off. Against AUS the England lineout was dire and England had the worst lineout retention rates in last seasons 6N.

Hibbard during the lions tour couldn't hit a barn door for love or money... That's why youngs got the nod in the first 2 tests.

There is this forever debate about hookers and mobility at test rugby, the biggest sides can sometimes get away with mobile hookers against lesser packs but against their big packs, Wales, sa, NZ etc it's always a disaster.

Youngs plays at Leicester, a big pack team right? He faces much smaller packs at club rugby. He looks impressive at club rugby no doubt given he was player of the year in the AP least season.

It reminds me of lee mears in huge 09lions tour. He was looking great against the SR teams who were far smaller then their bok counterparts by literally 10kg a man. It was a disaster... Vickery got the blame but it's more likely due to a Mighty Mouse being next to him.

In SA we gave schalk Brits 5 caps... Sure he could break like a centre but the boks need their hooker to be solid in the tight, consistent in the lineout and in that he was at best the 4th best hooker in SA.... And he's better then youngs.

Titterall, mears, youngs... History repeats itself time and again.

Ok, fair points there I guess.
But players have there own talents and I believe he can cut it. He isn't the biggest but he is fast strong and agile. Some things a lot pf hookers don't have.

England have SA soon and with Hartley inured time will tell. I like to to think he can silence all his critics on here

kingelderfield wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I think it was more than one or two Laurie and Nigel Owens put in an exceptional performance at Ellis Park.

The pitch and the stadium are top quality and until MS sorts out its pitch problems Twickenham is the premier stadium in Europe and probably Ireland after that, which pains me to say as I've been to the MS and it's a magnificent stadium but the pitches too often are just not up to scratch and that makes up a big part of the overall experience.

Wasn't there talk of the MS having a 4G artificial pitch? I guess everyones watching how the Blues go at the Arms Park.

Anyone know anymore about this?

Hoeplfully, it's a mess just like Paris' as well.
Look at how the scrums went for England on the Twickenham turf, then look at how many collapsed scrums occurred vs South Africa and Argetnina.

jhamer, England's Autumn is over now. They don't play SA this time around.

I know that there are a lot of wingers ahead of him but I'd really to see England take Jack Nowell down to NZ this summer. The lad really seems to have something about him. He is quick, strong, has a low centre of gravity, good hands a functional step and an eye for a gap. He is also very solid in defence and as a wing who has played full back you'd assume that he may have a decent kicking game. I could see him become an England regular quite quickly. In my opinion he looks like a better prospect than Anthony Watson who got called up to train with the England team this autumn.

How about this cadre of wingers in a couple of years?

Marland Yarde
Christian Wade
Jonny May
Jack Nowell

Jhamer25 wrote:England have SA soon and with Hartley inured time will tell. I like to to think he can silence all his critics on here

No SA this year. Hartley played his best game in an England jersey, methinks.
Should have the prelim diagnosis by tomorrow morning.