Scottland / Springboks - after match discussion

TJ wrote:Weir dropped one poor pass IIRC

History was on repeat for Scots but will they get the message?
Monday 18 November 2013

As we reached for the record books for all the wrong reasons once more, the latest Scottish thrashing at the hands of South Africa evoked more than a few memories.

Not least because, midway through yesterday's one-sided affair, we were graced with an appearance by arguably the finest player ever to represent the Springboks as Joost van der Westhuizen, tormentor of Scotland in both 1994 and 1998, took centre stage at Murrayfield once more.

It would serve as a reminder of human frailty, since the once irrepressible force of nature now finds himself wheelchair-bound and battling against the effects of Motor Neuron Disease. It is one of the most brutal of terminal illnesses.

There are things which even the man who sliced down Jonah Lomu time after time, while inspiring South Africa to their momentous World Cup win on their first appearance in the tournament in 1995, cannot overcome.

What price sporting calamity in the face of that, then? Even when you consider the lengthy treatment undergone by Francois Louw for a neck injury towards the end of his side's win at Murrayfield - after which the flanker gave a thumbs up as he left the field on a stretcher - the on-field events really were not that big a deal.

Even so, it was another day which brought to mind the worst of all of Scotland's rugby meetings against the South Africans. That was when the Scots suffered their all-time record defeat - 68-10 in a match at Murrayfield in 1997.

That day, as this correspondent left the empty stadium, the post-match press conferences completed, I bumped into Bill McLaren, who offered his opinion on what he had seen. "I haven't felt like this leaving Murrayfield since the day South Africa beat us 44-0 here," he said, harking back to 1951 and the days of three point tries.

What the late, great "voice of rugby" would have made of yesterday's effort is clearly impossible to gauge, but one was reminded yesterday that Reg Prophit, another fondly remembered commentator on this sport, used to say that Scotland had been lucky to get nil that afternoon in 1951.

It is rare to see an international rugby team denied a score, particularly on their home turf. Even in spite of Scotland's attacking ineptitude of recent years, the record books showed that this was the first time in more than six years that they had been shut out. That came when Frank Hadden, Scotland's then coach, opted wisely to field what was effectively a second team for that 40-0 defeat by the All Blacks.

With that in mind then, perhaps the more relevant comparison to be made is between yesterday's defeat and the 31-0 loss suffered by a full strength side against France close to a decade ago.

In assessing just how big the gulf was between the sides yesterday, perhaps the most telling observation came from Scott Johnson, Scotland's head coach, when he praised the quality of his side's defending. "It's a funny thing to say when you've conceded four tries, but with the amount of possession they had that game could have gone down a further path, if you like," he said.

It was a curious thing to be praising his men for, while it was also rather odd that he chose to focus on positives in Scotland's lineout performance. Their failures in that aspect of the performance handed the opposition the initiative in the first quarter of the match, when the Scots unacceptably lost five on their own throw-ins.

In terms of that bad start, Johnson also pointed towards a key area that emerged from that part of the game. "We don't have to be rocket scientists to work out that they are a pretty good mauling team. We'll see a bit of them again over the next couple of years, so it's something we'll be working on," said the coach.

"We want to have a setpiece and a platform we can play off and we want to start well. That's obvious, that's spoken about, that will be one of [the things that need to be improved]. The contact area too is an area we'll have to work on. It's probably the same mantra I've been saying for six months. It'll be the same on Tuesday. We'll say the same thing."

Yet in analysing Johnson's utterances it is tempting to recall a famous phrase from another scientific field which perhaps offers some cause for concern for Scotland. In particular, it seems most relevant to those players who believe they can progress to become a match for the South Africans by the time they meet them again the World Cup in 2015.

It refers, of course, to the definition of insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. What chance Scotland get the message this time?

Scotland can regain edge, says David Denton
by DAVID FERGUSON

WE FEARED that the story around this game come today might be more about the Richie Gray in the South Africa camp than the one playing for Scotland, and so it proved as even the Scottish players bemoaned their failure to deal with the Springboks’ improved work at the breakdown.

Rugby now revolves around that “breakdown”, the point where tackles are made and teams seek to regain possession with brain and brawn. South Africa coach Heyneke Meyer signed up Borderer Gray in the summer as a consultant to improve his players’ technical ability in this area, not least because of the way Scotland had outsmarted them there in Nelspruit in June, and David Denton felt afterwards that it was the difference between the teams at Murrayfield yesterday.

“The disappointing thing from our point of view is that it changes from game to game,” said the No 8. “What you’re looking for is a consistency at the breakdown, and there’s no question that this is a Springbok team that is very good and showed in the Rugby Championship that they are one team that can really compete with New Zealand in that area.

“After the try we conceded in the second half, our defence looked back to its structure, which made the interceptions so frustrating because our defence had held out very well. But what it came down to was that the ball we were getting was very slow and for us carriers coming round the corner we’re standing there waiting and then when we do get the ball you have 320kgs of guys waiting for you, whereas when we have quick ball we can get the team on the front foot and that’s when the backs can go and score their tries.

“It’s a simple solution – we fix our breakdown. When we played them in South Africa our breakdown was about one-and-a-half seconds quicker than their’s, which is a lot, and that’s essentially how you win rugby games these days because it’s the only way you can get on the front foot.

“So this week the breakdown is going to be a massive focus. If we want to play a good game against Australia and get tries, we need to sort this breakdown out. Guys like Michael Hooper have been playing incredibly well so we will need to nullify him and get over the ball as quick as we can.

“We have shown that we can do better than that. The forward pack wasn’t hugely different to the one that played them in South Africa and our breakdown was outstanding there, so we have the capability to do it.”

Gray, unfortunately, travels with South Africa to France, along with the rucking machines, the “Collision Kings” that he invented. So the responsibility lies largely with Scotland’s Welsh forwards coach, Jonathan Humphreys, and the players, to prove that they can pick it up again quickly. But that is not their only area of concern. The lineout faltered, and while that may be because Jim Hamilton and Richie Gray had only just come back together, having last paired up in the RBS Six Nations in March, they need to find a quick fix to end the year in better heart, and with a better than zero scoreline.

“The lineout did let us down early on, but Jim is a great lineout caller and he will fix it for next week,” insisted Denton. “If we’re going to win Test matches your set-piece has to be solid and your breakdown ball has to be quick.

“That’s why this is tough. Everybody knew coming into this game that it was going to be a physical battle and I think they just used their bulk to get in front of us. They played well around the rules, slowing the ball just long enough when they strictly are not allowed to, but that’s rugby.

“I wouldn’t say it was embarrassing [not to score a point], but we’re a better team than that. Because we were 21 points down early on we didn’t take any kicks at goal that we would have, but not scoring tries is frustrating. There’s no excuses.

“We are missing a few of our attacking threats [Tim Visser, Stuart Hogg and Matt Scott are all injured], but guys have come in and done well – Tommy [Seymour] scored two tries last week. So we need to get our wingers back on the ball scoring tries against Australia.”

He added: “They scored four tries in the end but there was a possibility that the floodgates could have opened, and I think the team showed a lot of character in the second half. We held them back for a long time so there are small positives that we can take from the game, but it’s not good enough.

“It is just hugely disappointing obviously because we never really got ourselves in the game but to be completely honest I’m not worried about this team. It’s really disappointing for our fans for us to lose in that manner but all credit to them. Everyone stayed right to the end and that’s what I love about playing at Murrayfield. The fans were great today and we now have a week to sort it out for us and them.”

The question now will be which of the back row survives for Saturday’s final Test match of the year against 
Australia. Skipper Kelly Brown was unusually rested from this one, but will return to face the Wallabies.

It is anticipated that Alasdair Strokosch, having started the first two games, may make way for Brown’s return, while Denton is likely to be given the opportunity to continue his education.

The Edinburgh back-rower has been linked with a move to Leicester and the Aviva Premiership next summer and is eager to provide a far slicker flow of ball to the Scottish attack. This was as hard and clear a lesson as the team could receive from a side now leading the way in breakdown work, ironically, in part thanks to Scottish innovation.

GLove39 wrote:
Disappointed with Maitland. Looked very jittery & unsure going forward. (Off field events playing on his mind maybe?)

Biltong wrote:A big reason why SA showed an improved breakdown performance was the cattle used.

In June Scotland faced players like Juandre Kruger (Not very physical), Marcell Coetzee (not a breakdown specialist and inexperienced), Pierre Spies (does no work at the breakdown), Arno Botha (Got injured in the game).

This time round you had Louw, a specialist at the breakdown, Vermeulen who steals as many balls as Louw, and Willem Alberts, plus the second row had much more grunt.

The thing is Louw, Vermeulen and Alberts is a damn good combination, they are big, strong and work very well in combination.

They are a tough act to play against for any team.

BigGee wrote:

Biltong wrote:A big reason why SA showed an improved breakdown performance was the cattle used.

In June Scotland faced players like Juandre Kruger (Not very physical), Marcell Coetzee (not a breakdown specialist and inexperienced), Pierre Spies (does no work at the breakdown), Arno Botha (Got injured in the game).

This time round you had Louw, a specialist at the breakdown, Vermeulen who steals as many balls as Louw, and Willem Alberts, plus the second row had much more grunt.

The thing is Louw, Vermeulen and Alberts is a damn good combination, they are big, strong and work very well in combination.

They are a tough act to play against for any team.

Exactly, for all our failings and there were many, we should not forget that this was a very good South African team. Wales could not score a try against them either remember and they dished out a few one sided scores against Oz and the Argies over the summer. We could have put a few points on the board had we chosen to take a few kicks so I am not that hung up on the Nil score line. We won't be the last team to ship a few tries against them. If we had lost by the same score to the All Blacks we would probably all be a lot more accepting about it but we thought this was a much more winnable game. Both these teams are way ahead of the pack at the moment!

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure if you're trying to make us feel better Biltong but even against the All Blacks playing the best they've ever played I'd expect us to at least score some points.

It is an embarrassment to not score any points at this level.

RDW_Scotland wrote:
I only really remember one kickable penalty chance within the first 60 minutes, and even then it was still quite far out.

fa0019 wrote:I think we were lucky you can't get negative points in rugby. God bless the rain, without it it would have been 0-60.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

The team shouldn't be making so many unforced errors. The lineouts farce looked so over complicated that it was bound to fail. Look at the boks, middle man every time. Been saying it for months now... the boks have no front jumper... look for flip but jump in the middle.

Offloads in the tackle is one thing... but don't throw blind passes.

It wasn't pressure. It was stupidity. Take the boks for example... do they ever drive into contact on their own?? No, nearly every time they have 2 men on on the coattails of the ball carrier... why, because it means they are the first into the ruck menaing retention is achieved but also its recycled quicker and with less men required.

Instead Scotland (and a lot of other teams) throw in singular players one at a time giving the opposition more time to pinch and also requiring more men overall to recycle.

Its like saying, "oh NZ offload in the tackle.. thats what makes them the best... so thats what we should do every time". The difference being its controlled, if its not on they don't give away possession.

There was one point Barclay did really well to turnover only to throw the ball behind his back straight into the arms of a bok. Doing all the work and then gifting the boks possession again.

We're a lot better then this. But give the boks a game, don't shoot yourself in the foot.

Sean Maitland – Consistent if unexciting. Made the majority of his kicks, covered well, did his defensive duties but offered little going forward. Slightly wasted at full-back on this showing. looked miserable too. 6/10

Tommy Seymour – Some good, some bad. Today would have been a good lesson for the young Glasgow winger in what is expected at this level. It was a good lesson for the whole squad for that matter. 5/10

Nick De Luca – So wrapped up in the colossal defensive effort that he was all but anonymous in the rare Scotland attacks that did occur. Given little ball but at least managed to keep his discipline in check, which was a pleasant change. Got nothing from Taylor inside him either. 5/10

Duncan Taylor – Not great. Kicked out on the full in the first half, missed a tackle for the third try and generally looked a bit terrified at 12. Safe to say centre isn’t his best position. The guy next to me kept thinking he was Matt Scott too. Poor Matt Scott. 4/10

Sean Lamont – Arguably the pick of the backs. Ran purposefully and aggressively. Tackled and rucked like a back rower and looked like he was up for it throughout. Was made Captain for the last 10 minutes. 7/10

Ruaridh Jackson – Poor. From the off he put his team under pressure with a bad kick, made some odd decisions and then threw an interception pass for their second try. Failed to make the ‘box-kick-to-the-corners’ tactic work either. Stupid moustache, bad game of rugby. 3/10

Greig Laidlaw – It’s fair to say the normally consistent and aggressive Mr Laidlaw was not at the races today, by his high standards that is… Rattled by the physicality of the Boks his service began to suffer and he was increasingly drawn into rucks and niggles. 5/10

Ali Dickinson – Heroic effort at both the breakdown and the South African gainline. No opportunities in the loose to add value and contributed to a poor scrummaging spectacle. Paid the price of his exections and was subbed early in the second half. 5/10

Ross Ford – The lineouts to begin with were an unbridled disaster. They stabilised later in the first half but the damage was done by that point and ironic cheers greeted every successful one thereafter. Tackled well but was poor is the scrum, totally failing to strike for the ball at any point. A really, shockingly poor effort. 3/10

Moray Low – Looked hopelessly out of his depth at times as wave after wave of massive Boks ball carriers washed over him. I wonder if the watching Vern Cotter is likely to ever give him another full 80 minutes for Scotland again. When I see him up against a front row like today, he gives me the fear. 4/10

Richie Gray – Under-par showing from the ever popular lock. For want of a better description he looked a bit knackered. Perhaps the Lions tour is taking its toll now but he lacked his usual energy and desire to get around the park. Did nothing particularly wrong but wasn’t the Richie Gray we know and (seemingly) love. 5/10

Jim Hamilton – Big Jim did everything you expect of him. Shouted a lot, started fights, had a beard, slipped off the occasional tackle and performed amateur dramatics in the line out. He’s emotional, aggressive and sometimes ham fisted. Not the best today, not the worst either. 6/10

Ally Strokosch – What ‘Stroker’ lacks in finesse he makes up for in his sheer desire to take on his opposite number. For every knock on or clumsy penalty he adds a tough tackle or some excellent rucking. Big part of a Spartan defensive effort by the back row. 6/10

John Barclay – A rare glimmer of optimism in an otherwise grim first half. Was a pest on the deck, solid in the trenches and at least tried to do something with the meagre possession thrown his way. The pick of the starting forwards. 7/10

David Denton – Promised lots, delivered little. Did his bit in defence but was melted everytime he tried to carry ball. His body position on the ball concerns me. Recently he looks like the opposition have sussed his Plan A out and he has no Plan B. 5/10

Subs:

Geoff Cross – Not used. Should have started. Poor Geoff.

Ryan Grant - Stabilised the scrum and slotted in quite well to the second half renaissance. 6/10

Max Evans – Showing frightening pace to nearly score in the corner. 7/10

Chris Cusiter – Changed little when he came on but did no wrong either. 6/10

Scott Lawson – Brought consistency to the line out and relief from the Ford car crash (see what I did there?). 6/10

Jonny Gray – Looks like a child, plays like a man. Good debut in a horrible game. 6/10

Duncan Weir – Silly knock ons and mazy runs failed to ignite the backline. 5/10

Johnnie Beattie – Played out of position at seven but made a positive impact, stealing line out and winning turnovers. 7/10

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Scotland player ratings from Brodie Smithers at scottishrugbyblog:

Sean Maitland – Consistent if unexciting. Made the majority of his kicks, covered well, did his defensive duties but offered little going forward. Slightly wasted at full-back on this showing. looked miserable too. 6/10

Tommy Seymour – Some good, some bad. Today would have been a good lesson for the young Glasgow winger in what is expected at this level. It was a good lesson for the whole squad for that matter.  5/10

Nick De Luca – So wrapped up in the colossal defensive effort that he was all but anonymous in the rare Scotland attacks that did occur. Given little ball but at least managed to keep his discipline in check, which was a pleasant change. Got nothing from Taylor inside him either. 5/10

Duncan Taylor – Not great. Kicked out on the full in the first half, missed a tackle for the third try and generally looked a bit terrified at 12. Safe to say centre isn’t his best position. The guy next to me kept thinking he was Matt Scott too. Poor Matt Scott. 4/10

Sean Lamont – Arguably the pick of the backs. Ran purposefully and aggressively. Tackled and rucked like a back rower and looked like he was up for it throughout. Was made Captain for the last 10 minutes. 7/10

Ruaridh Jackson – Poor.  From the off he put his team under pressure with a bad kick, made some odd decisions and then threw an interception pass for their second try. Failed to make the ‘box-kick-to-the-corners’ tactic work either. Stupid moustache, bad game of rugby. 3/10

Greig Laidlaw – It’s fair to say the normally consistent and aggressive Mr Laidlaw was not at the races today, by his high standards that is… Rattled by the physicality of the Boks his service began to suffer and he was increasingly drawn into rucks and niggles. 5/10

Ali Dickinson – Heroic effort at both the breakdown and the South African gainline. No opportunities in the loose to add value and contributed to a poor scrummaging spectacle. Paid the price of his exections and was subbed early in the second half. 5/10

Ross Ford – The lineouts to begin with were an unbridled disaster. They stabilised later in the first half but the damage was done by that point and ironic cheers greeted every successful one thereafter.  Tackled well but was poor is the scrum, totally failing to strike for the ball at any point. A really, shockingly poor effort. 3/10

Moray Low – Looked hopelessly out of his depth at times as wave after wave of massive Boks ball carriers washed over him. I wonder if the watching Vern Cotter is likely to ever give him another full 80 minutes for Scotland again. When I see him up against a front row like today, he gives me the fear. 4/10

Richie Gray – Under-par showing from the ever popular lock. For want of a better description he looked a bit knackered. Perhaps the Lions tour is taking its toll now but he lacked his usual energy and desire to get around the park. Did nothing particularly wrong but wasn’t the Richie Gray we know and (seemingly) love. 5/10

Jim Hamilton – Big Jim did everything you expect of him. Shouted a lot, started fights, had a beard, slipped off the occasional tackle and performed amateur dramatics in the line out. He’s emotional, aggressive and sometimes ham fisted. Not the best today, not the worst either. 6/10

Ally Strokosch – What ‘Stroker’ lacks in finesse he makes up for in his sheer desire to take on his opposite number. For every knock on or clumsy penalty he adds a tough tackle or some excellent rucking. Big part of a Spartan defensive effort by the back row. 6/10

John Barclay – A rare glimmer of optimism in an otherwise grim first half. Was a pest on the deck, solid in the trenches and at least tried to do something with the meagre possession thrown his way. The pick of the starting forwards. 7/10

David Denton – Promised lots, delivered little. Did his bit in defence but was melted everytime he tried to carry ball. His body position on the ball concerns me. Recently he looks like the opposition have sussed his Plan A out and he has no Plan B. 5/10

Subs:

Geoff Cross – Not used. Should have started. Poor Geoff.

Ryan Grant  - Stabilised the scrum and slotted in quite well to the second half renaissance. 6/10

Max Evans – Showing frightening pace to nearly score in the corner. 7/10

Chris Cusiter – Changed little when he came on but did no wrong either. 6/10

Scott Lawson – Brought consistency to the line out and relief from the Ford car crash (see what I did there?). 6/10

Jonny Gray – Looks like a child, plays like a man. Good debut in a horrible game.  6/10

Duncan Weir – Silly knock ons and mazy runs failed to ignite the backline. 5/10

Johnnie Beattie – Played out of position at seven but made a positive impact, stealing line out and winning turnovers. 7/10

fa0019 wrote:I think we were lucky you can't get negative points in rugby. God bless the rain, without it it would have been 0-60.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

The team shouldn't be making so many unforced errors. The lineouts farce looked so over complicated that it was bound to fail. Look at the boks, middle man every time. Been saying it for months now... the boks have no front jumper... look for flip but jump in the middle.

Offloads in the tackle is one thing... but don't throw blind passes.

It wasn't pressure. It was stupidity. Take the boks for example... do they ever drive into contact on their own?? No, nearly every time they have 2 men on on the coattails of the ball carrier... why, because it means they are the first into the ruck menaing retention is achieved but also its recycled quicker and with less men required.

Instead Scotland (and a lot of other teams) throw in singular players one at a time giving the opposition more time to pinch and also requiring more men overall to recycle.

Its like saying, "oh NZ offload in the tackle.. thats what makes them the best... so thats what we should do every time". The difference being its controlled, if its not on they don't give away possession.

There was one point Barclay did really well to turnover only to throw the ball behind his back straight into the arms of a bok. Doing all the work and then gifting the boks possession again.

@geerob: Six #Wallabies have been stood down for Scotland Test, further nine reprimanded, for going out drinking in Dublin last Tuesday. More soon..

RDW_Scotland wrote:GC -fancy starting an Aus match thread?

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:GC -fancy starting an Aus match thread?

I...I'm just back from holiday! Well okay then.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I’m really confused. I appreciate my knowledge of back play is limited but from what I saw I thought Taylor was completely out of his depth. Without Matt Scott-12 we lacked direction. Our backline attacked the South African defence like clinically depressed crabs. Shuffling sideways with no real drive or purpose. Our back line looked terrible. I think now it shows we miss the cutting edge provided by Visser and Hogg but more so we missed the impetus and direction Scott provides. Maitland is a safe guy at full back but had none of his attacking flair. As for Lamont I don’t want to hear another word about his heart, desire or any of that dross. He was a ball greedy Bam and butchered a decent overlap by putting the ball out on the full. I appreciate he wants to win and is trying really hard, but he isn’t John Matrix (commando reference) he can’t take everyone on by himself and succeed. Jackson too looked poor. His intercept pass was woeful and Weir nearly put De Villiers in for an intercept too. He wasn’t any better at 10.

Has the time come to try Matt Scott 12 at 10 and play Dunbar & Horne at 12/13? Weir and Jackson both made too many mistakes IMO. Against the Ozzies I would give Heathcote a shot TBH.

Up front outside the lineout I felt we did ok. Our forwards seemed a little off the pace at the breakdown and turned over a bit of ball. However for the most part out props put in a good shift against some beefy Bokkes and Hamilton apart from his penalty that gave away the try was pretty good as was Gray. The lineout was a shambles. Ford was at fault but we can’t single him out for blame. None of the calls seemed to work and Bakkies seemed to poach our ball at will. I would start MacArthur against the Ozzies but it’s unfair to put all the blame on Ford. Besides he again put in an admirable shift in the loose.

The only guys who really did themselves any credit : Dickinson, Lowe, Denton, Barclay and funnily enough NDL. Everyone else really didn’t look interested or if they did, made too many mistakes.

RR’s Team to face Oz

1. Dickinson
2. MacArthur
3. Lowe
4. Swinson
5. Gray Sr
6. Brown [C]
7. Barclay
8. Denton (dunno why people are thinking he had a bad game. He got smashed a couple of times but he played well)
9. Laidlaw
10. Heathcote
11. Lamont
12. Bennett
13. NDL
14. Seymore
15. Maitland

Lawson, Grant, Murray, Gray Jr, Beattie, Cusiter, Weir, Tonks

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I’m really confused. I appreciate my knowledge of back play is limited but from what I saw I thought Taylor was completely out of his depth. Without Matt Scott-12 we lacked direction. Our backline attacked the South African defence like clinically depressed crabs. Shuffling sideways with no real drive or purpose. Our back line looked terrible. I think now it shows we miss the cutting edge provided by Visser and Hogg but more so we missed the impetus and direction Scott provides. Maitland is a safe guy at full back but had none of his attacking flair. As for Lamont I don’t want to hear another word about his heart, desire or any of that dross. He was a ball greedy Bam and butchered a decent overlap by putting the ball out on the full. I appreciate he wants to win and is trying really hard, but he isn’t John Matrix (commando reference) he can’t take everyone on by himself and succeed. Jackson too looked poor. His intercept pass was woeful and Weir nearly put De Villiers in for an intercept too. He wasn’t any better at 10.

Has the time come to try Matt Scott 12 at 10 and play Dunbar & Horne at 12/13? Weir and Jackson both made too many mistakes IMO. Against the Ozzies I would give Heathcote a shot TBH.

Up front outside the lineout I felt we did ok. Our forwards seemed a little off the pace at the breakdown and turned over a bit of ball. However for the most part out props put in a good shift against some beefy Bokkes and Hamilton apart from his penalty that gave away the try was pretty good as was Gray. The lineout was a shambles. Ford was at fault but we can’t single him out for blame. None of the calls seemed to work and Bakkies seemed to poach our ball at will. I would start MacArthur against the Ozzies but it’s unfair to put all the blame on Ford. Besides he again put in an admirable shift in the loose.

The only guys who really did themselves any credit : Dickinson, Lowe, Denton, Barclay and funnily enough NDL. Everyone else really didn’t look interested or if they did, made too many mistakes.

RR’s Team to face Oz

1. Dickinson
2. MacArthur
3. Lowe
4. Swinson
5. Gray Sr
6. Brown [C]
7. Barclay
8. Denton (dunno why people are thinking he had a bad game. He got smashed a couple of times but he played well)
9. Laidlaw
10. Heathcote
11. Lamont
12. Bennett
13. NDL
14. Seymore
15. Maitland

Lawson, Grant, Murray, Gray Jr, Beattie, Cusiter, Weir, Tonks

Pls pls pls pls pls let's not go giving anyone their international debut out of position

GLove39 wrote:Great news ahead of Saturday, supposedly

@geerob: Six #Wallabies have been stood down for Scotland Test, further nine reprimanded, for going out drinking in Dublin last Tuesday. More soon..

      

Australia have suspended six players for breaches of discipline and five of them will miss this weekend's match with Scotland.

In total 15 players have been either suspended or warned about their conduct following a drinking session after their victory over Ireland on Saturday night.

Wingers Adam Ashley-Cooper and Nick Cummins, front-rowers Tatafu Polota-Nau, Benn Robinson and Paddy Ryan and flanker Liam Gill have all been suspended for one match.

Ryan is the only one of the six who will be available for the Murrayfield match but he will instead miss the final match of their tour against Wales.

The Wallabies were forced to delay his suspension because they would otherwise not have enough props available.

Other players were warned about their conduct. Dave Dennis, Kane Douglas, Saia Fainga'a, Bernard Foley and Nick Phipps were given written warnings, and Scott Fardy, Mike Harris, Ben McCalman and Nic White were spoken too.

Coach Ewen McKenzie said: "Everyone in our squad is required to comply with and adhere to high standards of ethical conduct both on and off the field.

"Those standards were compromised in the lead-up to Saturday's victory over Ireland with a group of players making the decision to stay out late and consume inappropriate levels of alcohol during the early hours of Wednesday morning."

"The Qantas Wallabies, in conjunction with the ARU, have decided to take significant action in a quest to drive the highest standards off the field.

"Let's be clear - these are internal sanctions and aren't a result of any complaints or reports of inappropriate or sinister behaviour while our players were out. Instead, we have chosen to address an issue that has come up internally and we are now being up-front about it.

"We've done this because we need to continually reinforce the need for our players to make smart decisions to benefit the team.

"The worst thing you could do for the Qantas Wallabies in the long-term is do nothing because that would mean we would be ignoring poor culture and a significant performance issue.

"We will always take action in relation to examples of poor culture when it's warranted - doing nothing to address poor behaviour will never be an option. We've taken on the challenge of re-defining our team culture.

"This is not a simple process but it needs to happen so we can have a chance to be the best team we can be. Already this year we've spent a lot of time being crystal clear around behaviours to ensure we are in a position to take the step-up to the next level.

"The reality is that if we are going to reach these levels, the players need to be making the right decisions as professional athletes and need to do everything possible to perform at their best for each Test."

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Has the time come to try Matt Scott 12 at 10 and play Dunbar & Horne at 12/13? Weir and Jackson both made too many mistakes IMO. Against the Ozzies I would give Heathcote a shot TBH.

Up front outside the lineout I felt we did ok. Our forwards seemed a little off the pace at the breakdown and turned over a bit of ball. However for the most part out props put in a good shift against some beefy Bokkes and Hamilton apart from his penalty that gave away the try was pretty good as was Gray. The lineout was a shambles. Ford was at fault but we can’t single him out for blame. None of the calls seemed to work and Bakkies seemed to poach our ball at will. I would start MacArthur against the Ozzies but it’s unfair to put all the blame on Ford. Besides he again put in an admirable shift in the loose.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I’m really confused. I appreciate my knowledge of back play is limited but from what I saw I thought Taylor was completely out of his depth. Without Matt Scott-12 we lacked direction. Our backline attacked the South African defence like clinically depressed crabs. Shuffling sideways with no real drive or purpose. Our back line looked terrible. I think now it shows we miss the cutting edge provided by Visser and Hogg but more so we missed the impetus and direction Scott provides. Maitland is a safe guy at full back but had none of his attacking flair. As for Lamont I don’t want to hear another word about his heart, desire or any of that dross. He was a ball greedy Bam and butchered a decent overlap by putting the ball out on the full. I appreciate he wants to win and is trying really hard, but he isn’t John Matrix (commando reference) he can’t take everyone on by himself and succeed. Jackson too looked poor. His intercept pass was woeful and Weir nearly put De Villiers in for an intercept too. He wasn’t any better at 10.

Has the time come to try Matt Scott 12 at 10 and play Dunbar & Horne at 12/13? Weir and Jackson both made too many mistakes IMO. Against the Ozzies I would give Heathcote a shot TBH.

Up front outside the lineout I felt we did ok. Our forwards seemed a little off the pace at the breakdown and turned over a bit of ball. However for the most part out props put in a good shift against some beefy Bokkes and Hamilton apart from his penalty that gave away the try was pretty good as was Gray. The lineout was a shambles. Ford was at fault but we can’t single him out for blame. None of the calls seemed to work and Bakkies seemed to poach our ball at will. I would start MacArthur against the Ozzies but it’s unfair to put all the blame on Ford. Besides he again put in an admirable shift in the loose.

The only guys who really did themselves any credit : Dickinson, Lowe, Denton, Barclay and funnily enough NDL. Everyone else really didn’t look interested or if they did, made too many mistakes.

RR’s Team to face Oz

1. Dickinson
2. MacArthur
3. Lowe
4. Swinson
5. Gray Sr
6. Brown [C]
7. Barclay
8. Denton (dunno why people are thinking he had a bad game. He got smashed a couple of times but he played well)
9. Laidlaw
10. Heathcote
11. Lamont
12. Bennett
13. NDL
14. Seymore
15. Maitland

Lawson, Grant, Murray, Gray Jr, Beattie, Cusiter, Weir, Tonks

Pls pls pls pls pls let's not go giving anyone their international debut out of position

Taylor isn't good enough at 12. I'm open to suggestions.

RDW_Scotland wrote:AAC and honey badger being banned is good new.  Amazingly Quade Cooper isn't on that list! Changed man...

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I’m really confused. I appreciate my knowledge of back play is limited but from what I saw I thought Taylor was completely out of his depth. Without Matt Scott-12 we lacked direction. Our backline attacked the South African defence like clinically depressed crabs. Shuffling sideways with no real drive or purpose. Our back line looked terrible. I think now it shows we miss the cutting edge provided by Visser and Hogg but more so we missed the impetus and direction Scott provides. Maitland is a safe guy at full back but had none of his attacking flair. As for Lamont I don’t want to hear another word about his heart, desire or any of that dross. He was a ball greedy Bam and butchered a decent overlap by putting the ball out on the full. I appreciate he wants to win and is trying really hard, but he isn’t John Matrix (commando reference) he can’t take everyone on by himself and succeed. Jackson too looked poor. His intercept pass was woeful and Weir nearly put De Villiers in for an intercept too. He wasn’t any better at 10.

Has the time come to try Matt Scott 12 at 10 and play Dunbar & Horne at 12/13? Weir and Jackson both made too many mistakes IMO. Against the Ozzies I would give Heathcote a shot TBH.

Up front outside the lineout I felt we did ok. Our forwards seemed a little off the pace at the breakdown and turned over a bit of ball. However for the most part out props put in a good shift against some beefy Bokkes and Hamilton apart from his penalty that gave away the try was pretty good as was Gray. The lineout was a shambles. Ford was at fault but we can’t single him out for blame. None of the calls seemed to work and Bakkies seemed to poach our ball at will. I would start MacArthur against the Ozzies but it’s unfair to put all the blame on Ford. Besides he again put in an admirable shift in the loose.

The only guys who really did themselves any credit : Dickinson, Lowe, Denton, Barclay and funnily enough NDL. Everyone else really didn’t look interested or if they did, made too many mistakes.

RR’s Team to face Oz

1. Dickinson
2. MacArthur
3. Lowe
4. Swinson
5. Gray Sr
6. Brown [C]
7. Barclay
8. Denton (dunno why people are thinking he had a bad game. He got smashed a couple of times but he played well)
9. Laidlaw
10. Heathcote
11. Lamont
12. Bennett
13. NDL
14. Seymore
15. Maitland

Lawson, Grant, Murray, Gray Jr, Beattie, Cusiter, Weir, Tonks

Pls pls pls pls pls let's not go giving anyone their international debut out of position

Taylor isn't good enough at 12. I'm open to suggestions.

Ok, ok, if you insist, I['ll come out of retirement - knees not quite the full ticket, but reckon I could do a job  

RDW_Scotland wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:GC -fancy starting an Aus match thread?

I...I'm just back from holiday! Well okay then.

No one makes threads as well as you do GC!  

Flattery gets you everywhere...

George Carlin wrote:Shame that this World Cup has come a little early for the likes of Leonard and FES' other secret son, Finn Russell.