Scottland / Springboks - after match discussion

by TJ Sun 17 Nov 2013, 5:23 pm

First topic message reminder :

So.

Scotland well outplayed and well beaten - but did not drop their heads. SA might have relaxed just a fraction at 28 pts up but clearly keeping the tryline uncrossed was important to them.

Why we lost:
the lost lineouts handed territory and momentum to SA
Inablity to defend mauls
SA scrapped for the ball on the floor better and with better understanding of the ref. too many turnovers
Again we see Scotland make handling errors in an effort to chase the game.
Too many injured backs

Positives?
Pack scrumaged well. Denton, Barclay, Beattie, Seymour and Weir all had good games. Taylor did a bit with the ball he got. Heads did not go down

Roll on cotter arriving and some guys back from injury.

Will Weir start next week?

by **George Carlin** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:11 pm

I am properly worried about the Wallabies match now - they were very good against Ireland, although the men in green were a wan shadow of their former glories which wasn't nice to see.

It's all very well to say that the Wallaby pack isn't as large and so therefore we will do better, but is that really true? The Irish loose forward trio largely got their collective backside handed to them by Mowen, Hooper and Fardy and so unless Barclay has another massive game and Beattie continues to improve, can we really hope to do so much better? I think that I might cry if I see the Rhubarb lining up against Cooper.

I don't care about anything other than hunger to win this time round. Do we have any reason not to start J. Gray, Bennett, Brown and MacArthur for this game?

by TJ Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:14 pm

George - I think we will see a very strong Scotland for Aus with a lot of change from what SJ has said Brown captain, weir to start, bennet will get on at some point.

by Scratch Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:15 pm

Biltong wrote:What was the reason for the pitch breaking up like that?

We have now twice played on really poor pitches.

Rain

We have too much too much of it in the UK and in SA you probably don't have any

Though i think the lack of sunlight at Cardiff makes the pitch slippery, once went to a champagne reception (roof on) on the pitch and it was sticky and soft.

by Dorothy_Mantooth Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:15 pm

TJ wrote:

Ford neither hooked or threw well. I think he needs to go to France or England to rekindle his career.

Not trying to be an arse, but what does that comment actually mean? I see comments like this all the time (not just you TJ) and it always confuses me a little. Does it mean the coaching in this country is not good enough or is the player not giving 100% anymore, or both?

by TJ Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:24 pm

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
TJ wrote:

Ford neither hooked or threw well. I think he needs to go to France or England to rekindle his career.

Not trying to be an arse, but what does that comment actually mean? I see comments like this all the time (not just you TJ) and it always confuses me a little. Does it mean the coaching in this country is not good enough or is the player not giving 100% anymore, or both?

In this case I think its a number of things. He may have become complacent and need a new challenge. Our coaches might have taught him everything they can. He might need to get out of the spotlight for a bit. Some players go abroad and it revitalises them

by **George Carlin** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:25 pm

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
TJ wrote:

Ford neither hooked or threw well. I think he needs to go to France or England to rekindle his career.

Not trying to be an arse, but what does that comment actually mean? I see comments like this all the time (not just you TJ) and it always confuses me a little. Does it mean the coaching in this country is not good enough or is the player not giving 100% anymore, or both?

Fair comment, I guess, Dot. For me, I think the point is that if you cannot execute the basic skills of your position at international level after playing in that position for 8 years (Ford started playing at 2 with the Reivers) then you should go somewhere to improve your technical skills if that clearly isn't happening at your current club. If, as you say, anyone is suggesting that Ford just isn't good enough, regardless of where he may ply his club trade, then that's a different thing entirely.

by **BigGee** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:27 pm

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
TJ wrote:

Ford neither hooked or threw well. I think he needs to go to France or England to rekindle his career.

Not trying to be an arse, but what does that comment actually mean? I see comments like this all the time (not just you TJ) and it always confuses me a little. Does it mean the coaching in this country is not good enough or is the player not giving 100% anymore, or both?

I said something similar earlier on in the thread. A lot of players have benefitted from a move to a new club and been exposed to a new coaching and playing culture. You could say the same about lots of people in any range of employment. Moving places the onus on the player to adapt, to change and to improve. Ford was a British lion on the previous tour and showed up well in his cameo in the last test. given his age and experience at that point in time you could have expected him to push on and tour again if not put down the marker for the test spot.

In all honesty his career has gone backwards since that point. He has never seriously been challenged for his Scotland or Edinburgh spot and has not gone on to be the player he probably could be.

It is not to late, he is still relatively young in front row terms but I don't think he will ever refind the spark where he is now. I have a feeling Edinburgh will not offer him a new contract anyway. He is costing a lot of money and they are not short of hookers, especially if MacInally steps up.

by TJ Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:31 pm

Aye - a good way to put it - rekindle the spark

by Dorothy_Mantooth Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:47 pm

TJ wrote:Aye - a good way to put it - rekindle the spark

Or in other words, being asked to truly "work" for their money!

Scotland just don't have the player pool. Most of our players are paid and act like superstars, where as the likes of South Africa, their players play like superstars, that's the difference.

by cakeordeath Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:53 pm

TJ wrote:Aye - a good way to put it - rekindle the spark

On a slight tangent, I thought Beattie played well.

by 123456789 Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:54 pm

My team for next week:

1. Grant
2. MacArthur
3. Murray
4. Swinson
5. Gray
6. Brown
7. Fusaro
8. Beattie
9. Cusiter
10. Weir
11. Lamont
12. Dunbar (Taylor if unfit)
13. Bennett
14. Seymour
15. Maitland

16. Welsh
17. Lawson
18. Low
19. Gray
20. Denton
21. Laidlaw
22. Heathcote
23. De Luca

by **George Carlin** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:00 pm

BigGee wrote:
Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
TJ wrote:

Ford neither hooked or threw well. I think he needs to go to France or England to rekindle his career.

Not trying to be an arse, but what does that comment actually mean? I see comments like this all the time (not just you TJ) and it always confuses me a little. Does it mean the coaching in this country is not good enough or is the player not giving 100% anymore, or both?
I said something similar earlier on in the thread. A lot of players have benefitted from a move to a new club and been exposed to a new coaching and playing culture. You could say the same about lots of people in any range of employment. Moving places the onus on the player to adapt, to change and to improve. Ford was a British lion on the previous tour and showed up well in his cameo in the last test. given his age and experience at that point in time you could have expected him to push on and tour again if not put down the marker for the test spot.

In all honesty his career has gone backwards since that point. He has never seriously been challenged for his Scotland or Edinburgh spot and has not gone on to be the player he probably could be.

It is not to late, he is still relatively young in front row terms but I don't think he will ever refind the spark where he is now. I have a feeling Edinburgh will not offer him a new contract anyway. He is costing a lot of money and they are not short of hookers, especially if MacInally steps up.

Fordy is 29 now. So is Bismarck du Plessis. I know whom I think delivers best vfm. I agree that he won't be replaced by Dougie Hall (33) but the likes of Pat McArthur at 26 looks like being someone investing more game time in at this stage. I have no patience with Ford any more. He hasn't done the basics well for quite some time. As the unfortunate Tom Youngs showed against New Zealand yesterday, you can have the greatest physique in the world, but against the best teams, margins are so fine and you can only become exceptional as a hooker if your basic skills are dependable first.

by tigertattie Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:02 pm

Few things.

1. SA thoroughly deserved to win that game. Scotland could not come close with the physicality.
2. JP Peterson was a naughty boy. Just blemished his 50th cap. No way can you cite him for that though.
3. Jim Hamilton carried out a perfectly legal clear out at the ruck. He did not go in with the shoulder. He used his arms.
4. Willie la roux is a phenomenal talent.
5. Our back line played like they did under frank hadden.
6. The two SA tries from a maul were illegal but as discussed in another thread it comes down to the ref interpretation
7. To everyone saying Denton had a good game, behave. He did his usual showboat carries without ever offloading.
8. Ford needs dropped

Team needs a rocket fired up them.

Team for next week should be
Grant
Wee pat
Rev
Snr Gray
Swinson
Brown (6)
Barclay
Beattie

Laidlaw
Weir
Shlong
Taylor
Baby Bennett
Seamour
Maitland

Heathcote on the bench.

Ford sent home to work on throwing and hooking.

by **Biltong** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:09 pm

Tigertattie, please explain how the two mauls were illegal?

Then can you please show me the evidence of Hamilton using arms when he hit Louw?

When a part of the maul breaks up from the originally formed maul it is perfectly legal.

When Alberts peeled off the side from the first maul, he was the front player, in other words there was no South African player in front of him, Gurthro Steenkamp acted as the "Hammer" and drove Alberts over the line.

Hamilton hit Louw with his right shoulder, his right arm was tucked into his chest, there was no attempt to use any part of his arm in the hitting of Louw.

Hamilton's charge into the ruck was exactly the same thing Bakkies got banned for.

by **BigGee** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:13 pm

George Carlin wrote:
BigGee wrote:
Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
TJ wrote:

Ford neither hooked or threw well. I think he needs to go to France or England to rekindle his career.

Not trying to be an arse, but what does that comment actually mean? I see comments like this all the time (not just you TJ) and it always confuses me a little. Does it mean the coaching in this country is not good enough or is the player not giving 100% anymore, or both?
I said something similar earlier on in the thread. A lot of players have benefitted from a move to a new club and been exposed to a new coaching and playing culture. You could say the same about lots of people in any range of employment. Moving places the onus on the player to adapt, to change and to improve. Ford was a British lion on the previous tour and showed up well in his cameo in the last test. given his age and experience at that point in time you could have expected him to push on and tour again if not put down the marker for the test spot.

In all honesty his career has gone backwards since that point. He has never seriously been challenged for his Scotland or Edinburgh spot and has not gone on to be the player he probably could be.

It is not to late, he is still relatively young in front row terms but I don't think he will ever refind the spark where he is now. I have a feeling Edinburgh will not offer him a new contract anyway. He is costing a lot of money and they are not short of hookers, especially if MacInally steps up.
Fordy is 29 now. So is Bismarck du Plessis. I know whom I think delivers best vfm. I agree that he won't be replaced by Dougie Hall (33) but the likes of Pat McArthur at 26 looks like being someone investing more game time in at this stage. I have no patience with Ford any more. He hasn't done the basics well for quite some time. As the unfortunate Tom Youngs showed against New Zealand yesterday, you can have the greatest physique in the world, but against the best teams, margins are so fine and you can only become exceptional as a hooker if your basic skills are dependable first.

I think we may know a bit more about MacInally by next weekend. He has played a couple of games for Currie now, scored some tries as well, so he is clearly fit again and I would be surprised not to see him somewhere on the Edinburgh team sheet on Friday.

His change to Hooker was clearly sanctioned by the Scotland coaches which does make you feel that they saw our shortcomings there. The fact that he was then asked to attend the training camps gives further fuel to the idea that they see him as being the answer to this problem or at the very least as someone serious to be added to the mix.

Of course it still remains to see if he can throw straight!

by **George Carlin** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:13 pm

Louw has apparently already been diagnosed with concussion so I don't think that His Jimness will have heard the end of this one, Bilt.

by **Biltong** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:21 pm

George, I have no issue with what Hamilton has done, I don't even want him cited, the only point I am making is that Bakkies was banned for exactly the same thing.

So we all need to be a bit less one eyed when our own players commit reckless acts, a few were quick to jump on JP for rubbing Denton's face in the grass, it is rugby not ballet.

by TJ Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:23 pm

The rubbing Dentons face in the ground is something that is seen a lot and is intended to make the player lose his temper. Nothing worth anythin except a pen for unsporting conduct if the ref sees it

by 123456789 Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:26 pm

I don't have a problem with what Pieterson did, he's just made a big tackle on someone much larger than him and as a result protected his team's perfect defensive record, the adrenaline will be pumping after that and he will automatically want to rub his face in it. I'm sure every player would react in a similar way having made a big hit especially on someone with a haircut like Denton's.

by tigertattie Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:27 pm

I've already said JP was not even handbags. Even Denton walked away from it.

Watch louw being injured again. You'll see Hamilton actually lifting a player off the ruck as he goes in.

Like you said bilt, it's rugby, not ballet.

by The Saint Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:35 pm

Biltong wrote:George, I have no issue with what Hamilton has done, I don't even want him cited, the only point I am making is that Bakkies was banned for exactly the same thing.

So we all need to be a bit less one eyed when our own players commit reckless acts, a few were quick to jump on JP for rubbing Denton's face in the grass, it is rugby not ballet.

Wales have had some of their players receive a card and ban in the domestic league's for the exact same thing.

by TJ Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:40 pm

WTF is this to do with wales - the last thread on this match was ruined by whinging welsh fans please don't do it to this one as well.

by **rodders** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:41 pm

Jeebus what a pasting, didn't see that coming!

At least Ireland will be in good company at the foot of the 6N table... sorry! Braveheart

by The Saint Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:43 pm

TJ wrote:WTF is this to do with wales - the last thread on this match was ruined by whinging welsh fans please don't do it to this one as well.

Can't help it can you? This is why some say you have it in for the Welsh.

I was making a statement for Biltong. Jake Ball was banned for the same thing when Scarlets played Munster. Someone else, I think it may have been Bradley Davies was banned for the same offence almost recently. The cards for the decent tackles that are deemed a 'tip-tackle' really get my goat as well. I'm trying to say it's an IRB inconsistentcy that has gone on for too long and needs to be sorted out. I don't think what Bakkies or Jim Hamilton did was wrong.

by **Biltong** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:44 pm

TJ wrote:WTF is this to do with wales - the last thread on this match was ruined by whinging welsh fans please don't do it to this one as well.

TJ, let's not start something here, Saint is just confirming that a charge into a ruck like that has copped Cards this season.

by whocares Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:47 pm

Bakkies got cited for an innocent charge just because he broke Ayerza's shoulder in the HC earlier this year. He gets pinged mainly on reputation although he has been very disciplined in the last 2 years.
Anyway... Am disgressing from the subject... Didnt watch the game, was SA real good and clinical or Scotland dire and toothless? Any hope for France to hang on ?

by TJ Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:48 pm

I had to start this thread because. The last thread on this game was sidetracked and ruined by welsh posters making it all about them and their whines I would rather they didn't do it to this one as well. Oh well another thread bites the dust.

by **Biltong** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:49 pm

I always fear France, we haven't won in Frnace for something like 16 years, admittedly it is only 4 or 5 games, but we still struggle to win there.

by TJ Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:50 pm

whocares wrote:Bakkies got cited for an innocent charge just because he broke Ayerza's shoulder in the HC earlier this year. He gets pinged mainly on reputation although he has been very disciplined in the last 2 years.
Anyway... Am disgressing from the subject... Didnt watch the game, was SA real good and clinical or Scotland dire and toothless? Any hope for France to hang on ?

Sa where good - Scotland gifted them easy tries and lost the plot but even when scotland got it back together SA were simply too good. Not a tonking except on the scorecard and for some of the first half

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:52 pm

Well played South Africa, a thoroughly deserved win and we did well to limit it to 28 points. The Bokke were simply better in every facet of the game - faster, more power, quicker and smarter decision-making etc.

Not a bad day for the two props, Dickinson and low, who didn't disgrace themselves, but that may have been one of Fordy's poorest displays. We can't afford a hooker that won't hook and can't hit his jumpers, simple as. Time for MacArthur to take a firm grip on the jersey. Didn't think much of Laidlaw's passing today - there was a 10 minute spell when he was unable to deliver a single decent pass. I'd be keen to see Cusiter start, with Laidlaw given homework to sharpen up his distribution. Jackson was his mercurial self. To avoid repeatin myself after every match he plays, I'm simply going to avoid commenting on de Luca's performance

by The Saint Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:53 pm

And people told me that I overreact.... Thanks anyway Biltong, that's exactly what I was getting at.

I missed the first SA try, but from what I saw then on Scotland were hopeless with ball in hand. SA were very good like they were against Wales and now that they're on a roll I can't see them losing to France. The SA driving maul has been utilised many times this season, and against the best teams, to great effect. I can't picture this afternoon's driving maul being any different. The only way to counter it is to put an extra 2nd row on to the flank and hope your pack is strong enough to counter SA's.

by **Biltong** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:55 pm

The best way to stop the maul is to sack the catcher.

by The Saint Sun 17 Nov 2013, 8:57 pm

Is that a south african term, what does it mean?

by 123456789 Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:00 pm

whocares wrote:Bakkies got cited for an innocent charge just because he broke Ayerza's shoulder in the HC earlier this year. He gets pinged mainly on reputation although he has been very disciplined in the last 2 years.
Anyway... Am disgressing from the subject... Didnt watch the game, was SA real good and clinical or Scotland dire and toothless? Any hope for France to hang on ?

South Africa were very good but Scotland seemed to lack direction and game plan, there was no cutting edge and not one player looked like he could cut through, it was a throwback to the days of Henderson, Di Rollo, Walker and Danielli playing in one back line. However when you look at it from the perspective that in the second half we arguably were the dominant team and aside from about 5 minutes in which we lost the game we were relatively good defensively. It is also not all doom and gloom when you look at it from the perspective that we were missing Scott, Visser and Hogg who are players who can genuinely threaten defenses, on top of that Weir is just coming back and looks like he could soon displace Jackson and Bennett coming into the side.
Worryingly our pack (which was pretty much full strength)was poor in the set piece and couldn't defend mauls which sends out a message that a lineout from five metres against Scotland is a try, our pack didn't fare too badly in the loose but as a result of the poor lineouts we had no platform and therefore very little ball.

By the start of the six nations, I'd like to see the following side:

1. Grant
2. Ford (if he can sort out his set piece, MacArthur otherwise)
3. Murray
4. Swinson
5. Gray
6. Brown
7. Rennie
8. Beattie
9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Dickinson
17. MacArthur
18. Welsh
19. Gray
20. Barclay
21. Cusiter
22. Heathcote
23. Seymour

On another note, what are the chances of Kellock playing for Scotland again? I'd now have him as sixth or seventh choice behind Gray, Swinson, Gray, Hamilton and possibly Ryder.

by 123456789 Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:00 pm

The Saint wrote:Is that a south african term, what does it mean?

Pull the guy who catches the ball down as soon as he lands thus preventing the maul from forming

by whocares Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:04 pm

Biltong wrote:I always fear France, we haven't won in Frnace for something like 16 years, admittedly it is only 4 or 5 games, but we still struggle to win there.

It has been a while and France aint what it used to be. Got a couple of injuries at the moment in the backrow and one of our lock got a red against Tonga so we will probably play a couple of saffers ourselves Wink

Also please accept my apologies in advance for the pitch!

by **Biltong** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:06 pm

whocares wrote:
Biltong wrote:I always fear France, we haven't won in Frnace for something like 16 years, admittedly it is only 4 or 5 games, but we still struggle to win there.
It has been a while and France aint what it used to be. Got a couple of injuries at the moment in the backrow and one of our lock got a red against Tonga so we will probably play a couple of saffers ourselves ;)Also please accept my apologies in advance for the pitch!

Ha, we've played on two pretty poor pitches thus far, so I suppose we will be used to it by next weekend.

by captain carrantuohil Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:06 pm

There appears to be a split between the realists and the permanent optimists in "the former Scotland player expert" camp. Andy Nicol seemed to me to be rather closer to the truth when he suggested that there was a minute amount of comfort to be derived from such a comprehensive stuffing on home turf. Gavin Hastings, on the other hand, sees the glass as half full to judge by his opinion that "the scoreline suggests a hammering, but it wasn't like that...They (Scotland) worked extremely hard and, provided there aren't too many knocks, the important thing is to front up against Australia next week and take the game to them. I am not as disappointed as some people might be."

What, one might ask, would it actually take to disappoint Big Gav? Having paid for the privilege of sitting through Ireland's "performance" last night, I am getting sick of this sort of nonsensical, up and at 'em lads sort of assessment of what was, beyond question, an old-fashioned drubbing. How does this Monty Python's Black Knight sort of attitude assist anyone? Both Ireland and Scotland were bloody awful this weekend, unable to perform far too many of the basics, leave alone be competitive in any meaningful sense with their opposition. I'll skin the next person who tells me that "at least their heads didn't drop". I'm supposed to be delighted that they saw fit to continue to do their best? Gee, thanks. I should be grateful that most Irish commentators haven't attemped to tell me that there were positives to be taken from yesterday's slaughter, but it isn't a lot of solace just now.

Both displays were pretty passionless, truth to tell, and it's high time that someone stood up and said that it was unacceptable and that, so far from being in the last chance saloon, some players have just bought their last drink there. Enough with the false hope and 'one more push' bollix. Let's at least get some hard noses and clear minds in place, just for a change.

by **Biltong** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:08 pm

I kind of agree with Hastings.

The difference was that SA executed well, where as Scotland didn't.

by Dorothy_Mantooth Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:09 pm

captain carrantuohil wrote:

Both displays were pretty passionless, truth to tell, and it's high time that someone stood up and said that it was unacceptable and that, so far from being in the last chance saloon, some players have just bought their last drink there. Enough with the false hope and 'one more push' bollix. Let's at least get some hard noses and clear minds in place, just for a change.

by TJ Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:10 pm

It was more than that Biltong - it was intensity and belief as well as basic skills.

by **Biltong** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:13 pm

That is why I said kind of.

I do agree that our forards managed to break the Scottish gainline with much more ease than Soctland did, but then Scotland's forwards did much better in the second half.

Especially when Alberts went off. He has been magnificent for us during the season.

His defence and ball carrying has made him vital to our success in the contact area.

by **rodders** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:14 pm

Well said captain! guinness

by **RDW** Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:41 pm

I think we need to let it sink in here that Scotland scored 0 points. Nil. Nought. Nada.

Truly embarrassing - when did a top ten team last fail to score? Other than Scotland...

by Pat_Mustard Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:42 pm

My thoughts are, that while it was a poor performance, it was nowhere near the worst performance in years as others have suggested. The defeat to Tonga last year and Italy away in I think the 2012 6 Nations were far, far worse. As I've said though, today was bad and I'm not going to pick out too many positives. For me it comes down to a lack of intelligence or concentration. Decision making was absolutely appalling at times. Offloads straight to South Africans (one by Barclay comes to mind but there were several others), that kick by Lamont, and failing to come up with a plan B when our attack was going nowhere. We put on a great defensive display on our own line for a spell but when we finally got posession in their half it seemed like the players relaxed, lost their concentration and we gave away two soft tries in 2 minutes. As others have said, a mixed bag from Jackson - a couple of well executed cross-field kicks stood out for me but then some poor decision making and what looked like a mix up between him and Maitland which led to Le Roux's try. I'm surprised to see people calling for Weir to start though, I thought he was worse than Jackson when he came on. A knock on, a few poor passes, two of which very nearly led to interceptions, a missed touch from a penalty and he didn't exactly set the backs free either. That's very difficult to do of course when your forwards are struggling so badly, so whilst Australia will be strong too, clutching at straws we might be slightly less comprehensively dominated up front next week. I'm really not sure who I'd pick at 10 now, not sure if Heathcote has played for Bath much recently? Maybe it would be best if we just cancel the game on the grounds of worm infestation. If we can't get away with that, I would probably go with a team very similar to numbers's, but with an empty space at number 10 as I have no clue at all for that position now.

by TJ Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:44 pm

Weir needs to get some starts - only then will we really see but I believe he is a much better player than Rhubarb

by Pat_Mustard Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:56 pm

I hope he's a much better player than Rhubarb but we all thought Jackson was the answer when Parks was starting. It's probably fair to give him a start to show what he can do but I hope it's not just wishful thinking.

by funnyExiledScot Sun 17 Nov 2013, 10:11 pm

I think Weir should be given a shot, but I'm not hugely excited by that. It's not as if he's been throwing his hands in the air for this chance. He was poor off the bench today. That he was better than Jackson only show how muddled and poor Jackson was.

Agree with ASBO on Laidlaw. His service was not good, and whilst Taylor is an honest toiler, he's no craftsman at 12. NDL hasn't done enough to keep his jersey, and I much prefer Maitland on the wing than at 15. We are really missing Scott and Hogg.

Really disappointed by today. So many basic errors, and we never looked threatening with ball in hand at any point.

by GLove39 Sun 17 Nov 2013, 10:14 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think we need to let it sink in here that Scotland scored 0 points. Nil. Nought. Nada.

Truly embarrassing - when did a top ten team last fail to score? Other than Scotland...

Last I can remember is England at the World Cup in 07 (36-0 v the Boks)
Although we also got nilled that tournament by the All Blacks.

by funnyExiledScot Sun 17 Nov 2013, 10:37 pm

Tonga last yer was a worse performance. At times today we defended well, and were only nilled because we passed up some easy 3 pointers to score a try, which we were inches away from doing.

Whilst i'm trying to say nice things I think Murray Low went well in his comeback at tighthead, and Richie Gray was industrious around the park. Hamilton was his usual aggressive self as well, although i'd welcome back Swinson for Australia.

Just saw some highlights on the news. The tackling for that Le Roux break for JP Pietersen's score was grim.

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