Ireland v New Zealand

by ME-109 Mon 18 Nov 2013, 11:23 am

First topic message reminder :

Right what's done is done regarding Aus. Time to move on and look forward to the ABs. This could be one to watch from behind the couch.

I don't expect any major changes in the team. Murray for Redden being the only obvious change, possibly at tighthead, possibly in the second row. Sexton is doubtful, maybe Earls is available.

My only expectation for this game is for an improved performance as the required level of aggressiveness was just non existent last Saturday. Otherwise we are looking at some hammering.

Without stating the obvious...I would like to see our players try to copy the All Blacks in certain aspects of the game. Namely
1. Passing the ball to another Irish player who is moving forwards and preferably in space
2. When running with the ball try to avoid the opposition players as much as possible instead of seeking out contact.
that is all.

Suas an bothair agus ar aghaidh an tarbh.

Updated with Teams
All Blacks
15 Dagg,14 jane, 13 B Smith, 12 Nonu, 11 Savea, 10 Cruden, 9 A Smith
8 Read, 7 McCaw, 6 Luatua, 5 Whitelock, , 4 Romano, 3 Faumoina, 2 Hore , 1 Crockett

Ireland
R Kearney; T Bowe, B O’Driscoll, G D’Arcy, D Kearney; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross, D Toner, P O’Connell, P O’Mahony, S O’Brien, J Heaslip.
Replacements: S Cronin, J McGrath, D Fitzpatrick, M McCarthy, K McLaughlin, I Boss, I Madigan, L Fitzgerald.

by SecretFly Sun 24 Nov 2013, 6:57 pm

captain carrantuohil wrote:A quick word on Nigel Owens - on current form, the pre-eminent referee in international rugby. Control with a human face, applies the laws well, while never seeming to be hidebound by them, and clearly enjoys the respect of the players. He handled both the SA-NZ game in Jo'burg and today's encounter and I don't think that it's a coincidence that they were arguably the two standout matches of the year.

He is the Ref All Black. Yes, he's the man.

by majesticimperialman Sun 24 Nov 2013, 6:59 pm

Lets look at both England and Ireland v the Abs.

England went 17 points down and the Abs did not look like there was any thing to worry about. England fought back and took the lead for about 2 minutes then the Abs came back and won the game.

Ireland on the other hand went 19 points in front in as many minutes, and the Abs look paniky, looked like they was fighting for their lives. And yet they came back and snatched the in the dying seconds.

What i am getting at is that England did not look like they could win, and they didn't. And yet Ireland looked like they could not lose. And yet they did.

This is why NZ and number 1 team. I gouess.

by Taylorman Sun 24 Nov 2013, 8:08 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Engalnd allways give the SH a game and never ever get dismantled the way wales did to england. Wales game was the most out there result all year

Really? Any of these ring a bell?
42-6
36-0
32-6
44-12
55-22
58-10
43-18
34-3

All since 2006? Or does 'never ever' mean recently? (very recently I mean)

by GLove39 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 8:16 pm

Enjoyed Cian Healy's David Denton impersonation this afternoon! http://blog.paddypower.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/healy-mccaw.gif

by mystiroakey Sun 24 Nov 2013, 8:17 pm

Ok Taylor.

This is an Ireland v NZ thread......Not England.. Wink

by MrsP Sun 24 Nov 2013, 8:21 pm

GLove39 wrote:Enjoyed Cian Healy's David Denton impersonation this afternoon! http://blog.paddypower.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/healy-mccaw.gif

Does Richie get his legs a bit tangled around Healy's there and help bring him down?

Completely innocently of course.

Whistle

by wolfball Sun 24 Nov 2013, 8:26 pm

MrsP wrote:
GLove39 wrote:Enjoyed Cian Healy's David Denton impersonation this afternoon! http://blog.paddypower.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/healy-mccaw.gif
Does Richie get his legs a bit tangled around Healy's there and help bring him down?

Completely innocently of course.

MrsP what are your thoughts on BOD being kept off for failing concussion test? Maybe they are starting to listen??

by kiakahaaotearoa Sun 24 Nov 2013, 8:31 pm

Important lessons for NZ despite winning. They will look at the breakdown in these three games and hopefully recognize they were beaten in all three European games. They need to commit greater numbers.

That said, I couldn't be prouder of a team that has been off colour and in all of their European games and have found a way to close out all of those games. An unprecedented record and one cannot downplay their achievement this year. They'll come away thinking they could've easily lost all three games and are fortunate but proud to win all three. An amazing year and I salute you as you've shown tremendous heart when it mattered. You have made us all proud given the performances you've faced that have brought out the best of you in key moments. notworthy

by **rodders** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 8:43 pm

Firstly well done to the ABs - to go through the entire season is an amazing achievement - SCW is wrong, this is one of the great NZ teams.

Initial feeling was devastation to lose in that manner.... what a kick in the bollix. Sextons missed kick and that penalty conceded at the end will haunt Irish rugby for a long time...

However after the dust has settled I feel immense pride at what was a phenomenal effort from all the Irish players and one which restores pride in the national side - something that has been on the wane for a number of seasons.

Its too early to say if this is a false dawn, we've had a few of those in the last few seasons, but if we can build on this then we'll be a good place going forward.

We need have plenty to improve on, physically and mentally, but if we can replicate the passion and commitment we showed today then we'll give most sides a tough day at the office. To a man that was excellent, just not just enough to beat a great AB side.

Great performance by Nigel Owens too.

guinness

by MrsP Sun 24 Nov 2013, 8:46 pm

I hadn't realised that was why he stayed off.

He was looking a bit wobbly well before that though, wasn't he? I missed the start of the second half. Had to make do with Jim Neilly and EOS's view for a bit.

Much as I admire BOD I would say he was one of the worst offenders at staying on when he should be off. Not all his fault mind. Concussed players should not be the ones making the decisions.

by **rodders** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 8:52 pm

Is there a cruel irony that it was O'Driscoll's uncle who created the headlines about the concussion tests not being thorough enough? Would BOD have been allowed back on if this hadn't happened?

by MrsP Sun 24 Nov 2013, 8:59 pm

Shouldn't have been!

And it was because he's BOD's uncle that he spoke out. He was appalled at how his nephew was allowed to play on when clearly concussed.

by Guest Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:00 pm

Well done ABs, very proud of our resolve in the last 3 games. Wasn't pretty but we did it. Credit to all opponents. All teams took it to the ABs and cramped us up. Overall, we were not convincing this AIs.

McCaw admitted the missed late pen 'lifted' the team.

"When they took that shot at goal, which would have put them out to eight points [ahead] the reality is if that had gone over it was probably game over,'' McCaw said.

"But when that missed you could sense a lift in the boys, we were still a chance and perhaps the Irish boys, they were trying to eat up time and when that happens you sense an opportunity could come.''

Remarkable that the ABs still thought they could pinch it. I thought it was done and had lost all hope. Was expecting a knock on when I saw a few forwards handling the ball. Exceptional composure and accuracy from the team. Lucky lucky lucky, sorry Ireland, too cruel to lose like that.

by **rodders** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:09 pm

ebop wrote:
Remarkable that the ABs still thought they could pinch it. I thought it was done and had lost all hope. Was expecting a knock on when I saw a few forwards handling the ball. Exceptional composure and accuracy from the team. Lucky lucky lucky, sorry Ireland, too cruel to lose like that.

I'm not, this is champion side. No luck about it. I knew as soon as we turned the ball over with 30 seconds to go that in all likelihood the ABs would manufacturer the winning score - this is close to an unplayable side, a team which can score from anywhere, pretty much whoever has the ball doesn't make unforced errors- whenever the opposition makes a mistake its curtains. Ireland did almost everything right for 79.5 minutes but that's not enough against these guys because they only need 30 seconds. C'est la vie.

by SecretFly Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:16 pm

+1 to Rodders. I just sensed we were way too nervy to hold out if they got their hands onto the ball - our composure, under the pressure of that psychological hurdle of being so close again just wilted.

But before today we were fast becoming less and less of a joke (that period was already dying) and more of a side others would simply ignore (like for example Italy). Not even good enough to be mentioned in certain media dispatches about the Autumn series of games. If there is anything worse than being ridiculed, it's probably being ignored.
Yes, we talked amongst ourselves but other people mostly left us to it - we'd turn up to play the game of course because we're Irish and hospitable Wink

, but we'd get thrashed and the ABs would quickly forget just who they did thrash to get the record. One of them lesser European sides that scratch a little and then roll over.

But we're back on the radar at least. How long we stay there means a ton of work for Schmidt now both in player selection, in making sure those players follow any instructions and 'homework' to the letter in the interval between next International time; and in strengthening his own coaches thoughts and honing plans on how they want this team to play. They have the raw resources, they'll have to do a lot of moulding to make such intensity in games now second nature....especially against 'lesser' opposition. Play as you would play New Zealand - always... that's the psychological step-up we need.

by maestegmafia Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:18 pm

For all the heart ache and emotion there was plenty of pride shown by some great rugby players out there on the field today.

by mystiroakey Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:18 pm

Nope don't buy that nz are that good.

They do make mistakes and can be beaten.

Best side yes, unbeatable no.

by **Notch** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:21 pm

I think it was the best test match of 2013 (only one left- your move, Wales vs Australia!)

by kiakahaaotearoa Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:26 pm

Dagg had a game to forget. But Barrett looked likely whenever he touched the ball. I still don't understand who Crotty replaced when he came on but Cruden's pass was sweeter than Coles' even though it seemed like an eternity for that try to be adjudicated.

Admire the Irish posters who believe that a team should not blow such a lead and thoughts go back to the Wallaby fight back after NZ went three tries down and they came do close to pulling off a victory. I thought some of the penalty decisions not to go for goal and those that did were wrong but hindsight makes that irrelevant. You couldn't have asked for a more exciting finish but that makes the result harder to take. Just farewelled my Irish friends after sinking quite a few Guinness commiseration pints.

by maestegmafia Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:28 pm

Notch wrote:I think it was the best test match of 2013 (only one left- your move, Wales vs Australia!)

That's a hell of a challenge notch...! I hope we can give it a go. Even more so that we can send them home with their tails between their legs firmly beaten.

by Guest Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:30 pm

Notch wrote:I think it was the best test match of 2013 (only one left- your move, Wales vs Australia!)

Cheers! That's the sort of pressure we do not need. Especially after Wales game against Tonga was probably worst test match of 2013!

by RDSguru Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:31 pm

Notch wrote:I think it was the best test match of 2013 (only one left- your move, Wales vs Australia!)

We've done the last minute defeat thing all to often... really hope we can nail one... would set up the 6n's a treat

by kiakahaaotearoa Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:31 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Nope don't buy that nz are that good.

They do make mistakes and can be beaten.

Best side yes, unbeatable no.

14 games in a season and 14 victories and you can't accept NZ are deserving of the first team in the professional era to think that NZ are not that good. Of course they're beatable. NZ showed in their AI games that they are clearly beatable. But is it too much to ask that the fact they weren't beaten is the hallmark of a great side. Hug

by SecretFly Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:32 pm

Griff wrote:
Notch wrote:I think it was the best test match of 2013 (only one left- your move, Wales vs Australia!)
Cheers! That's the sort of pressure we do not need. Especially after Wales game against Tonga was probably worst test match of 2013!

Your Ireland v Australia game before the big effort?

by Scratch Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:32 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Nope don't buy that nz are that good.

They do make mistakes and can be beaten.

Best side yes, unbeatable no.

Er hello, any side is beatable in a contest, fact is, NZ are unbeatable in 2013.

by Guest Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:34 pm

All sides are beatable mystri, that's why no team to date in the pro era have gone through the season unbeaten. I think it's more your tone and conviction that this team isn't really that good that I find amusing. Given AB results this year and how pro sport is by nature. Over the last +5 years in the AIs, other than England's win last year, how many have we lost? How many do we lose at home over history?

This team has evolved with new blood and they are the new performers whilst veterans fade away. This AB side is not full of has beens just holding on to thier glory days. It's constantly moving and improving. Other teams improve also but there will be no fall from grace for the ABs given planned succession.

Beatable, yes, but doing just that will not be easy and won't be for a whiles. I look forward to your synopsis next year when England finally play in NZ.

by mystiroakey Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:35 pm

So . Everyone puts them on a pedalstool and it's the wrong attitude.

The amount of mistakes nz have made this tour Has been very apparent. Nz fans well not be happy. But we all let them off the hook.

by Scratch Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:39 pm

How do you fit all 23 All Blacks on a pedalstool?

Anyway they are on it because they deserve it right now.

by RDSguru Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:39 pm

mystiroakey wrote:So . Everyone puts them on a pedalstool and it's the wrong attitude.

The amount of mistakes nz have made this tour Has been very apparent. Nz fans well not be happy. But we all let them off the hook.

It's their response to making those mistakes that has made then unbeatable (this year)

by mystiroakey Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:40 pm

It would have to be a very big one....

by Guest Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:41 pm

Should the No 2 team be put on the pedestal instead? No one is saying this team is perfect. No, I'm happy, because we won against teams that played out of their skins and took it to us. It was humbling to only just win our AI games. We played well enough and with ticker. No blow outs. A mistake ridden blow out win would have been unpleasing.

by mystiroakey Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:41 pm

Tbh I think rugby . Top 7 clubs are as close as they have ever been.

by RDSguru Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:41 pm

Scratch wrote:How do you fit all 23 All Blacks on a pedalstool?

Anyway they are on it because they deserve it right now.

Get 2 x four legged and 5 x 3 legged.... ahem, I'll say no more censored

by MrsP Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:44 pm

Is a pedalstool like a bicycle that doesn't move?

Or a sofa with pedals? And no back?

by Guest Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:46 pm

Wiggins makes pedalstools

by RDSguru Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:46 pm

MrsP wrote:

Is a pedalstool like a bicycle that doesn't move?

Or a sofa with pedals? And no back?

Actually it could be a wrench... for pedals

by Scratch Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:47 pm

Its a sofa with pedals

A bit like an English chariot only with wheels

by mystiroakey Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:48 pm

Pedestal..... Wink

by RDSguru Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:49 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Pedestal.....

by MrsP Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:50 pm

I knew what you meant oakey!

Probably because I can't spell for Toffy!

Just bringing a little levity to the situation.

by mystiroakey Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:51 pm

Wouldn't a pedal stool be a rideable turd?

Yeah my spelling sucks..

by **rodders** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:51 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Best side yes, unbeatable no.

Unbeatable no of course not, but unlike every other side, you have to beat them because they won't lose - that's the difference. You can't boot the ball to them in the hope they cough it back, or pin them back in their half in the comfort they can't run it back. You need to disrupt every ruck, not miss a first up tackle, not knock on, not concede penalties, take every point and do it for 80mins - Ireland almost did that and deserve huge credit - but not too much because they just blinked at the death. If we learn and build from this - not just the team, but the supporters and the country then the pain of this defeat is worth it....

by mystiroakey Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:53 pm

It's great in a way rodders.. This result means you Irish well be well up for the 6 nations.

It's gonna be huge this time. And I have no idea who will win.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:57 pm

Just in from the game. have not read the thread.

Have all the people who said Darce was "finished" appologised yet?

by SecretFly Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:58 pm

They think Darce is finished!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by **rodders** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:58 pm

Wales and England are way ahead oakey - then France- one good game for us doesn't change that but the 6N is a few months away and I feel a lot more positive after this but we have a lot of work to do.

But we have some passion and pride now. Skills and fitness can be improved but without passion they are worthless...

by clivemcl Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:59 pm

Anyone else tempted to read further into BODs look of anguish when he went off. Yes, perhaps he just knew it was their best chance ever to beat the all blacks and just wanted to continue on. But i couldnt help but wonder if he was reconsidering calling it a day and retiring before the six nations. Many fans and midia were suggesting it might be best.

by MrsP Sun 24 Nov 2013, 10:00 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Just in from the game. have not read the thread.

Have all the people who said Darce was "finished" appologised yet?

Ah ha!

But are we sure that was actually Darcy?

Could have anyone behind that fuzz!

by maestegmafia Sun 24 Nov 2013, 10:01 pm

Griff wrote:
Notch wrote:I think it was the best test match of 2013 (only one left- your move, Wales vs Australia!)
Cheers! That's the sort of pressure we do not need. Especially after Wales game against Tonga was probably worst test match of 2013!

They said tonight that ball was in play for just eleven minute in the first half.

Scrum resets dominated the game.

Not sure it was really either sides fault the game was dull, both teams played great rugby when they didn't drop the ball.

Unfortunately, they both dropped the ball a lot, and it always went forward.

by **Notch** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 10:02 pm

I don't think he will, I don't think he can bring himself to do it before his contract runs out... one last Grand Slam? He won't turn down the chance. I also think Schmidt will not be dropping him before the end of the next 6N. I think Schmidt will continue to back him as first choice.

I actually thought BOD was quiet enough in a great team effort strangely. I didn't feel like we lost that much when Luke Fitzgerald came on.

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