France vs South Africa chat.

Any Frenchman about?

We are playing you on Saturday.

Wanna talk about it?

Thought I'll just check.

I ate a crossiant the other day, drink red wine for breakfast and am told by my wife that I have poor hygiene... do I count???

Frans Louw looks likely to be out although we're awaiting news on that. Big big loss.

bonjour monsieur, parlez vous Francais?

Biltong wrote:bonjour monsieur, parlez vous Francais?

Is that German???

Italian, I think.

This should be a cracking game.

Willie Le Roux to have another cracking game possibly. Looked quality yesterday.

Interesting to see the french team.
Think this is saturday night? If so am out so wont see it which is a shame, as should be a great game.

please go easy on me

reminder of the French 30 men squad below. Picamoles and Domingo are just back (replacing suspended lock Maestri and injured Ouedreago) but I dont think they will be in final squad. I believe they are there only for the training sessions as I understand there will be special emphasis on the scrum this week

forwards: Debaty, Domingo, Forestier, Kayser, Szarzewski, Mas, Slimani, Flanquart, Papé, Vahaamahina, Dusautoir, Lauret, Le Roux, Nyanga, Claassen, Chouly, Picamoles.

backs: Doussain, Parra, Pélissié, Michalak, Tales, Bastareaud, Fickou, Fofana, Fritz, Guitoune, Médard, Huget, Dulin.

Tonga game was a non event, defense was poor and Tonga has most of the possession. the only positives were testing Fickou (19 years old centre) and Guitoune (wing).

the team I expect / hope (in brackets the subs):

Forestier - Kayzer - Mas (Debaty - Szarzewski - Slimani)
Vahaamahina - Papé (Flanquart)
Dusautoir - Chouly - Lauret (Claassen)
Parra - Talès (Pélissié - Michalak)
Médard - Fofana - Fritz - Guitoune (Fickou)
Dulin

I really hope Michalak doesnt get to play even 10 minutes as when both him and Bastareaud got on the field against Tonga it was a mess. Our backrow is not very balanced (2 very similar flankers in Dusautoir and Lauret, good tacklers but not very mobile) as well but it went ok against the kiwis so why not.

I knew if I went fishing I will find me a French supporter.

Where is this game taking place whocares?

Is it the same pitch as the AB game?

Biltong wrote:I knew if I went fishing I will find me a French supporter.

Where is this game taking place whocares?

Is it the same pitch as the AB game?

yes, correct , it's at the stade de france in Paris /st denis on saturday at 2100 CET. chances are the pitch will actually be in worst condition if it actually freezes this week (we should get close to zero degC at some point here).

heard FDP is back to Japan, who will get to play 9 then?

Ruan Pienaar will be at halfback.

I think Meyer will select the following strting XV.

Beast Mtwarira
Bismacrk du Plessis
Lourens Adriaanse
Eben Etzebeth
Flip v d Merwe
Francois Louw (if he is fine)
Willem Alberts
Duane Vermeulen
RuannPienaar
Morne Steyn
Bryan Habana
Jean de Villiers
Jaque Fourie
JP Pietersen
Willie le Roux

Pienaar for sure.... Schreuder is the next option and he's uncapped.

Apparently Jano Vermaak has been called up!

Vermaak being capped is a joke. He'll be 29 in a months time. He's moved to France. If he gets a bench spot over Schreuder it will tell us one thing about Meyer

Yo listen up here's a story
About a little guy that lives in a blue world
And all day and all night and everything he sees
Is just blue like him inside and outside
Blue is his house with a blue little window
And a blue corvette
And everything is blue for him and himself
And everybody around
'cause he ain't got nobody to listen to

I'm blue da ba dee da ba die...

I am guessing you are talking about Meyer's affinity for

The Blues?

No wait

Waratahs?

No...


Stormers?


Agh, got it, the Bulls.

Biltong wrote:I am guessing you are talking about Meyer's affinity for

The Blues?

No wait

Waratahs?

No...


Stormers?


Agh, got it, the Bulls.

Les Blues perhaps?

Ah, not THE Blues, but LES Blues.

I'm sure I recall Meyer saying before the tour that he did not intend to play Schreuder (or Ntabeni), and the reason for bringing them along was to familiarise them with Boks structures and patterns and see how they'd fit in. What I can't understand is why Vermaak has been selected over McLeod!

Mr Fishpaste wrote:I'm sure I recall Meyer saying before the tour that he did not intend to play Schreuder (or Ntabeni), and the reason for bringing them along was to familiarise them with Boks structures and patterns and see how they'd fit in.  What I can't understand is why Vermaak has been selected over McLeod!

cheaper flight ticket?

He can probably use the train?

whocares wrote:

Mr Fishpaste wrote:I'm sure I recall Meyer saying before the tour that he did not intend to play Schreuder (or Ntabeni), and the reason for bringing them along was to familiarise them with Boks structures and patterns and see how they'd fit in.  What I can't understand is why Vermaak has been selected over McLeod!

cheaper flight ticket?

Aaah! Good point...it is a recession and all!

What is the point of capping a 29 yr old with no future in the game? If it took him until 29 to reach test class, he is not test class.
If the 22 yr old is 1 step behind its better to give him the experience. Schreuder wouldn't start and wouldn't let the team down... he has no obviously flaws.

In the end its 20 mins at most. What faith does that show?

They only selected Schreuder and Ntabeni to bump up the numbers from the Stormers to acknowledge... Meyer - "we are taking some of your chaps even though you are a superior side... "oi Louis, Scarra, hurry up with those bags for Mnr Botha".

29 years old is still ok for next RWC... even if Jano will be way down the picking order, maybe it's still sensible to have him tested at least once in case there is a big injury crisis in 2 years time. besides he knows almost half of the french team inside out as he trains with them on daily basis.
I was secretly hoping that HM would give a cap to Rory Kockott as I fear that PSA will be tempted to select him for France next summer once he's qualified.

whocares...

you are right... for a chap who has 50 caps under his belt. But this is a guy for 10 years of his pro career was deemed not good enough. With chaps like Piet van Zyl and Schreuder emerging it would better to give them a test now rather than just give one to a journeyman... its like the old days in the UK when club stalwarts after 10 years service were awarded with a cap just to say.... "well he's not the best but he's a jolly good chap".

Vermaak has 3 bok caps . The real sad part about all this is Mr Ruan Pienaar starting at 9    . Has anyone noticed how snappy that ball has been , from the rucks with FDP there. Now we're gonna have 3 second Pienaar and his irritating habit of telling the whole world he's about to box kick. Hopefully Flouw Alberts and Vermuelen are firing in every single cylinder otherwise we're doomed . Those Frenchies had the measure of the Blackness last week .

Pienaar and Steyn both likely to start, expect the backline to receive precious little attacking ball. Throw Louw's absence in, with headless chicken Coetzee making a start, this is going to be a tough, tough game for the Springboks.

This is a big game, the French looked very capable and SA are in great form.

Dublin and Le Roux are both great attacking runners. Though Parra and Pienaar could be the best battle.

Can't wait

It should be a cracker. South Africa haven't won in France since 1997. I picking a belter of a contest between the forward packs. France may have uncovered a passable 1st 5, which could make things interesting. Both teams look to be improving. The boks for me, I think they're a more dynamic side and complete side. Wayne Barnes is the referee. I'm picking another penalty advantage to the French and at least 1 SA player in the bin.

Since 97...?

Wow...!!! That is plenty of encouragement for the Boks. It's not going to be an easy ride this time either.

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:Pienaar and Steyn both likely to start, expect the backline to receive precious little attacking ball. Throw Louw's absence in, with headless chicken Coetzee making a start, this is going to be a tough, tough game for the Springboks.

If anything Steyn starting is a good thing . The backline looked much deadlier with him and fdp as compared to Lambie and FDP . I pray Louw is fit seeing as his injury has been described as not serious if not then rather have Kolisi starting not Coetzee

Bullsbok wrote:

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:Pienaar and Steyn both likely to start, expect the backline to receive precious little attacking ball. Throw Louw's absence in, with headless chicken Coetzee making a start, this is going to be a tough, tough game for the Springboks.

If anything Steyn starting is a good thing . The backline looked much deadlier with him and fdp as compared to Lambie and FDP . I pray Louw is fit seeing as his injury has been described as not serious if not then rather have Kolisi starting not Coetzee

I agree with you that Steyn is a good thing, or at least would be if FdP was playing. With FdP out and Pienaar in though... Well, it would surprise me to see us have a good game with Pienaar there. I would have preferred pretty much anyone else, maybe even a gamble on Kockott? Pienaar has let the team down too many times in my opinion.

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:Pienaar and Steyn both likely to start, expect the backline to receive precious little attacking ball. Throw Louw's absence in, with headless chicken Coetzee making a start, this is going to be a tough, tough game for the Springboks.

If anything Steyn starting is a good thing . The backline looked much deadlier with him and fdp as compared to Lambie and FDP . I pray Louw is fit seeing as his injury has been described as not serious if not then rather have Kolisi starting not Coetzee

I agree with you that Steyn is a good thing, or at least would be if FdP was playing. With FdP out and Pienaar in though... Well, it would surprise me to see us have a good game with Pienaar there. I would have preferred pretty much anyone else, maybe even a gamble on Kockott? Pienaar has let the team down too many times in my opinion.

Yup anyone but Pienaar   he;s just so sloooooooow . Heck dude damn near lost us the Lions series with his dodgy kicking , thankfully Morne Steyn was there to save the day

Bullsbok wrote:

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:Pienaar and Steyn both likely to start, expect the backline to receive precious little attacking ball. Throw Louw's absence in, with headless chicken Coetzee making a start, this is going to be a tough, tough game for the Springboks.

If anything Steyn starting is a good thing . The backline looked much deadlier with him and fdp as compared to Lambie and FDP . I pray Louw is fit seeing as his injury has been described as not serious if not then rather have Kolisi starting not Coetzee

I agree with you that Steyn is a good thing, or at least would be if FdP was playing. With FdP out and Pienaar in though... Well, it would surprise me to see us have a good game with Pienaar there. I would have preferred pretty much anyone else, maybe even a gamble on Kockott? Pienaar has let the team down too many times in my opinion.

Yup anyone but Pienaar    he;s just so sloooooooow . Heck dude damn near lost us the Lions series with his dodgy kicking , thankfully Morne Steyn was there to save the day

It's really interesting to see how Boks fans see Pienaar as a weak link when he plays so well for Ulster and is held in such high esteem as a general of the game from scrumhalf.

maestegmafia wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:Pienaar and Steyn both likely to start, expect the backline to receive precious little attacking ball. Throw Louw's absence in, with headless chicken Coetzee making a start, this is going to be a tough, tough game for the Springboks.

If anything Steyn starting is a good thing . The backline looked much deadlier with him and fdp as compared to Lambie and FDP . I pray Louw is fit seeing as his injury has been described as not serious if not then rather have Kolisi starting not Coetzee

I agree with you that Steyn is a good thing, or at least would be if FdP was playing. With FdP out and Pienaar in though... Well, it would surprise me to see us have a good game with Pienaar there. I would have preferred pretty much anyone else, maybe even a gamble on Kockott? Pienaar has let the team down too many times in my opinion.

Yup anyone but Pienaar    he;s just so sloooooooow . Heck dude damn near lost us the Lions series with his dodgy kicking , thankfully Morne Steyn was there to save the day

It's really interesting to see how Boks fans see Pienaar as a weak link when he plays so well for Ulster and is held in such high esteem as a general of the game from scrumhalf.

I've heard this from a few Ulster supporters... I think he just doesn't make the step up to international level. At club level he dominates though, that is hard to deny.

I didn't think he played that badly for SA though. I must admit I didn't catch all your games this RC.

fa0019 wrote:What is the point of capping a 29 yr old with no future in the game? If it took him until 29 to reach test class, he is not test class.
If the 22 yr old is 1 step behind its better to give him the experience. Schreuder wouldn't start and wouldn't let the team down... he has no obviously flaws.

In the end its 20 mins at most. What faith does that show?

They only selected Schreuder and Ntabeni to bump up the numbers from the Stormers to acknowledge... Meyer - "we are taking some of your chaps even though you are a superior side... "oi Louis, Scarra, hurry up with those bags for Mnr Botha".

Dont agree with that. Just cause you make the team late it doesn't mean you can't still have 3/4 good years. Frank Bunce didn't play for us until he was 29 and Ben Smith is no youngster but has finally managed to find some space in the team (lucky really injury and sabbatical gave him the chance)

After a great performance last week how much could a loss to France un-stabalise the this new Bok teams moral?

No.They've had a pretty good year. I think, like the AB's last year, it could be a blessing in disguise for Meyer. This is the makings of a potentially very good Bok side. A "rock under the towel" whilst they're at beach over summer could keep them honest in their development. It'll make them re evaluate, against what's a been (NZ aside) a pretty good season.

This is still a banana skin game for the books looking at the NZ game. The turf is enough for the boks to boycott its that bad. Someone should try tunnelling under the breakdown for a try there's that much dirt coming up.

This is still a banana skin game for the books looking at the NZ game. The turf is enough for the boks to boycott its that bad. Someone should try tunnelling under the breakdown for a try there's that much dirt coming up.

South Africa are heavy favourites . they won against Wales with ease which is not something than France could do.
If you compare player by player they are also much better :
- front row : no question although our THs are quite small which makes it sometime difficult for the opposing loosehead to play against. but in open play, SA props and hookers are more active while our props are just happy to hit a few rucks when they are not walking.
- 2nd row : same
- back row : if Low plays, they have a much balanced and powerful unit
- number 10 : Tales is just a poor man Steyn
- number 9 : Parra is equally slow, so would make it even
- centres : fofana + fritz might be a slightly better combo than JDV + JF but just about
- back 3 : slight advantage to the boks thanks to Habana. Medart is past it while Dulin has been as promising as Willy Le roux so far.

In terms of cohesion the boks ara also way more clinical while am not convinced by the french fluidity in attack. If the Boks get the upper hand on the scrum and the rucks I dont see what would stop winning this (appart from bad pitch and wayne barnes).

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:Pienaar and Steyn both likely to start, expect the backline to receive precious little attacking ball. Throw Louw's absence in, with headless chicken Coetzee making a start, this is going to be a tough, tough game for the Springboks.

I wish Coetzee would temper his playing a bit. He's got plenty of strength and commitment, if only it was well-directed. Also, if he could learn to offload, that would be fantastic. He's a hard guy to bring down, but the opposition (certainly down South) have figured out quite quickly that he never passes so you can just double-team him to halt him!

Am depressed... Either PSA is a genius and he sees things that mere mortals like me cannot understand or he's a respectable heir of crazy marc lievremont.
He just announced his 23 men squad and that doesnt sound good at all:
To face SA, france will have only one number 8 and no ball carrier in the backrow. Apparently they will try to outpace the Boks but if Chouly gets smashed like the scots were it means France will have to bring Nyanga and lose all their scrums. We lost the opportunity to play le roux who is a powerful ball carrier, a decent line out option and can play 8, basically the no nonsense sub.
Front row: he brings back Domingo as a potential loosehead against the best props of the world, a guy that is just coming back from injury and hasnt played for a month...
Wing: he keeps guitoune who was couldnt last 70 minutes against Tonga and send back home medart. Have a dodgy feeling that Fofana will end up on the wing...which brings the discussion to the centres: when you think Fickou has shown in the last 2 games how much ability and potential he has, PSA resurects that fat tub of lard that is bastareaud aka the turnover machine.
So what sort of mystery game plan there is that I missed all along? NONE! Unless it involves digging a hole in that disgrace of a pitch of stade de france ( getting worst at the minute after tonights football game).

From PR.com

France have named their team to face South Africa on Saturday with just one change made to the starting XV that played the All Blacks a fortnight ago.

For the first time, coach Philippe Saint-André has retained his half-back pairing for three consecutive Tests as Rémi Talès and Morgan Parra continue to lead the French attack.
Having rested a handful of players for last week's clash with Tonga, Saint-André reverts to the starting side that pushed New Zealand close, with the exception of Sofiane Guitoune, who wins his second cap on the wing in the place of Maxime Medard.
There are however a number of changes to the bench with prop Thomas Domingo, loose forward Yannick Nyanga, playmaker Frédéric Michalak and big centre Mathieu Bastareaud added.
France: 15 Brice Dulin, 14 Yoann Huget, 13 Florian Fritz, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Sofiane Guitoune, 10 Rémi Talès, 9 Morgan Parra, 8 Damien Chouly, 7 Wenceslas Lauret, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Pascal Papé, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Benjamin Kayser, 1 Yannick Forestier.
Replacements: 16 Dimitri Szarzewski, 17 Thomas Domingo, 18 Rabah Slimani, 19 Sebastien Vahaamahina, 20 Yannick Nyanga, 21 Jean-Marc Doussain, 22 Frédéric Michalak, 23 Mathieu Bastareaud.
Date: Saturday, November 23
Venue: Stade de France, Paris
Kick-off: 20:00 local (18:00 GMT)
Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Assistant referees: Glen Jackson (New Zealand), Leighton Hodges (Wales)

Awesome French backline.

Dulin and Fofana are exceptional. Tales is looking good at flyhalf.

Fritz balances well with Fofana in the centre..

Surprised at Kayser being picked over Szarzewski...?

thanks Maest
Szarzevski is less reliable than Kayser. in 2 years time I see hookers like Tolofua and Orioli going above him in the picking order.
like said have no issues with the starting XV but some of those subs are a big liability to the team and we have no fallback at 8 which is a complete lunacy against a team as dangerous as SA.

is this game on SKY? cant find it on the beeb schedule.

found it Sky Sports 3.

Biltong, what is SA's record at Stade?

We've only played there twice.

2001 and 2005, lost by 10 and 6

yeah just looked it up, no win in france since 97?! Can't really believe it.

How is SA press/bookies assessing chances….I am expecting a big kicking game from SA.

Huge game for PSA after a very poor year.

I think it will be the clash of the weekend and perhaps the Autumn. There is usually 1 upset, NZ last year and although i am hoping the upset is next week in Cardiff i expect France to turn up for this one.