Read vs Halfpenny for World Player Of The Year

by disneychilly Mon 18 Nov 2013, 8:19 pm

First topic message reminder :

Stuck on this one eh. Both have been in mesmeric form and have played huge hands in memorable wins for their teams. Happy with either.

Have read that Read benefits from the team around him this year which I don't believe. He's one of the standouts who would be missed more than the usual 7 and 10. Such a vital cog.

Halfpenny has been so assured all season and on form has probably been the best goalkicker in the game this year. Set up the try which broke the 3rd Lions test open.

No matter who wins, kudos to both for a brilliant year. (Half) Penny for your thoughts? See what I did there?

by flyhalffactory Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:50 am

Sidestep wrote:I love halfpenny . Brilliant player and has made the shirt his own for any team he's featured In. But. Even in welsh circles people wish for more counter attacking from him. Which is an important weapon in a fullbacks arsenal. Read however could do no more. Nothing to fault.
I would be happy for halfpenny to win it. He's Also done nothing wrong. But just feel Read has been the complete no8. Halfpenny hasn't made full use of his counter attacking ability as the best fullbacks do.

Its been well documented he has been under coaching orders until the 2013 AIs to concentrate on his defensive structure, the game against the Pumas saw him supporting on a number of occasions including two of the tries.

by Sidestep Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:54 am

Hey, I agree. It may well be a coaching strategy. But I just see halfpenny still able to improve. In fact I think he' will go on to be even better. Whereas Read couldn't have done more. I'm welsh. I think halfpennys still to reach his peak as a fullback

by Bullsbok Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:07 am

The Saint wrote:Certainly is beggars belief when people claim all Halfpenny can do is kick a ball. Guess it's also beggars belief to claim Ben Smith wouldn't be a worthy candidate, guess these people haven't watched rugby for that long. Halfpenny has been one of our best players, and was certainly the best player and played his heart out when we were at a low-point. And yes of course, he was fundamental in two 6 Nations championships and a Lions series win (first in 16 years).

Having said that Read is in phenominal form as of late and in player/leadership term has surpassed Carter and McCaw, something that is nigh on impossible. Not only that but he's getting better. It's almost scary!

I would opt for Read. I think Read will win it. Picking an All Black seems to be the political choice now, evident by the year BOD was overlooked for an AB. A welsh player winning is not the political choice, because he's ummm....welsh. So I guess Read will win it.

Was that last line really necessary , why do you keep stirring the pot . This had nothing to do with nationality till you waded in . Sometimes i think you ask for trouble

by The Saint Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:12 am

It wasn't necessary Smile

, but perhaps you read too much into it. There's a lot more of my post we could have discussed instead of that.

by blackcanelion Tue 19 Nov 2013, 4:52 am

2009 was a strange year. BOD started strongly when Ireland grandslamed. The Lions lost the two games he played in and the end of year was mixed bag for Ireland. Du Preez started well but SA ran off the track in the November internationals. McCaw missed the start of the season and NZ was indifferent in the Middle and imperious at the end, All players had a similar winning percentage and had their ups and downs during the season. McCaws advantage was he played well all year and his team peaked going into the awards. IMO if you want a political appointment look no further than Shane Williams in 2008 or Dusautoir in 2011.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 19 Nov 2013, 5:55 am

Bullsbok wrote:
The Saint wrote:Certainly is beggars belief when people claim all Halfpenny can do is kick a ball. Guess it's also beggars belief to claim Ben Smith wouldn't be a worthy candidate, guess these people haven't watched rugby for that long. Halfpenny has been one of our best players, and was certainly the best player and played his heart out when we were at a low-point. And yes of course, he was fundamental in two 6 Nations championships and a Lions series win (first in 16 years).

Having said that Read is in phenominal form as of late and in player/leadership term has surpassed Carter and McCaw, something that is nigh on impossible. Not only that but he's getting better. It's almost scary!

I would opt for Read. I think Read will win it. Picking an All Black seems to be the political choice now, evident by the year BOD was overlooked for an AB. A welsh player winning is not the political choice, because he's ummm....welsh. So I guess Read will win it.
Was that last line really necessary , why do you keep stirring the pot . This had nothing to do with nationality till you waded in . Sometimes i think you ask for trouble

Ickle Shane won it few seasons back to nulifies your point a bit to.

by **Biltong** Tue 19 Nov 2013, 5:57 am

Halfpenny had a very good Lions series, but Read has just been phenominal the whole season.

I would think due to his consistent performance over the year, Read should win it by a landslide.

by Scratch Tue 19 Nov 2013, 5:58 am

Saint that is a ridiculous statement, do you have any evidence to support that?

by wrfc1980 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 6:57 am

Halfpenny is a traditional full back. Great positioning, decent under the high ball but doesn't bring a huge amount going forward. Take away his kicking and he becomes just a solid full back. A good player but there are better in his position

by rainbow-warrior Tue 19 Nov 2013, 7:49 am

Biltong wrote:Halfpenny had a very good Lions series, but Read has just been phenominal the whole season.

I would think due to his consistent performance over the year, Read should win it by a landslide.

Halfpenny has also been phenomenal throughout the season apart from the Lions tour, there was the 6 Nations and now the AI's where he did bugger all wrong either.

All this crap is pointless anyway, both are brilliant in their positions as I already stated does it matter who wins in the end. Just celebrate amazing players ... mines a RedWine

by jimmyinthewell68 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 8:08 am

is there any money involved apart from some trophy . i ll go with read because the all blacks have not been beaten this year and prob all season after the Ireland game .hes got the record for most tries in his No 8 position too .halfpenny great player for Wales and his goalkicking is phenomenal . his positioning makes it look like there are four halfpennys on the pitch but read is something else and deserves the award . who am i kidding Im Welsh HALFPENNY TO WIN. .

by aucklandlaurie Tue 19 Nov 2013, 8:57 am

flyhalffactory wrote:Without a shadow of a doubt it has to be Halfpenny, even taking into account Read has been exceptional in a squad of world class players. The thing that has turned it for Halfpenny is his accolades over not just twelve months of consistent world class play but probably the last eighteen.... 2012 player of the series against Oz, 2013 6Ns Player of the tournament, 2013 Lions Player of the tournament including most points in a series, and most points in a test match. Take into account his age... he is only 24 now and the atrocious injuries that have plagued him since he was called at 19 into the 2009 Lions tour (serious thigh injury), 2010 (neck, ankle), 2011 (thigh I think), the guy is phenomenal. It beggars belief when people say if he wasn't for his kicking he wouldn't be up there with the best, I just can't imagine Dagg performing as good as Halfpenny if he wore the Red 15 shirt instead of the Black one, and has far as Daggs booming kicks well 1/2p hits 50m dead ball pens with ease and punts out of hand at what must be 70m.

As good as Mr Read has been you have to take into account he plays with 22 world class players at international level, so its got to be Mr Halfpenny for me.

Whenver I see this logic it amuses me as to where this track of thought takes you.

Several months ago we had a thread asking the question who was the better centre Brian O'Driscoll or Conrad Smith, we were told to ignore Smith because he played in a far better team and was surrounded by 22 World class players.

Next we had the debate, who was the better fullback Israel Dagg or Leigh Half Penny (remember Bluesmancometh?), we were told that Dagg had an unfair advantage because he played for the best team in the World, surrounded by the best players that anyone could play fullback for the All Blacks.

Now I see that we have to take into account that Read Plays with 22 World class players as well....

Now if this is going to occur every time an All Black is nominated for an award etc I suggest we go through the entire All black team and when we get to the 21 st we will have identified the 22nd player, who must be the most brilliant rugby player walking the Earth.

by **Biltong** Tue 19 Nov 2013, 9:01 am

But Laurie, Willie le roux is the best fullback, didn't you know.

And he doesn't play with 22 world class players Whistle

by aucklandlaurie Tue 19 Nov 2013, 9:02 am

Bludee hell Biltong you know how to shatter a blokes theory.

by **Biltong** Tue 19 Nov 2013, 9:04 am

by **Biltong** Tue 19 Nov 2013, 9:05 am

I am just teasing mate, these awards or any list of the best players are pure subjective opinion.

I don't pay much heed to them, it all depends who is on the panel and what they were looking for.

by aucklandlaurie Tue 19 Nov 2013, 9:10 am

Actually why should halfpenny and Read be so much ahead of Jean DV? I must admit Im a big JDV fan.

by **Biltong** Tue 19 Nov 2013, 9:17 am

JDV is a Bok, we don't get awards. Wink

by aucklandlaurie Tue 19 Nov 2013, 9:22 am

Awards are only for cheats, Thugs are disqualified...

by rainbow-warrior Tue 19 Nov 2013, 9:24 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Awards are only for cheats, Thugs are disqualified...

Better give it to Wayne Barnes then:run:

by **Biltong** Tue 19 Nov 2013, 10:20 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Awards are only for cheats, Thugs are disqualified...

Yep, that is pretty much it. Wink

by jimmyinthewell68 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 10:22 am

who would be 606v2 choice of thug of the year .

by **Biltong** Tue 19 Nov 2013, 10:24 am

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:who would be 606v2 choice of thug of the year .

We'll have to check who has been carded (reported the most)

by aucklandlaurie Tue 19 Nov 2013, 10:31 am

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:who would be 606v2 choice of thug of the year .

Biltong do you accept this award on behalf of South Africa?

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 19 Nov 2013, 10:36 am

Bullsbok wrote:1/2p is an excellent goal kicker . Take away the goalkicking and he wont really stand out for his fullback play alone . He won the Lions and 6N series with his goalkicking but hasnt really set the world alight as a fullback lets be honest. Dagg is the better fullback , booming clearing kicks, solid defender and above all he's a massive attacking force in that all black backline . Read should get it imo . He's been phenomenal everywhere .

Hard to argue with that (the bits in bold). He's shown glimpses of what he can do in attack, but more often than not he'll kick. Can you award World Player of the Year based on glimpses?

by fa0019 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 10:37 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
jimmyinthewell68 wrote:who would be 606v2 choice of thug of the year .
Biltong do you accept this award on behalf of South Africa?

As long as we can call it the Andrew Hore medal???? Wink

by Scrumpy Tue 19 Nov 2013, 10:39 am

Read has to get it, 1/2p is a great kicker but offers little in open play.

by **Biltong** Tue 19 Nov 2013, 10:57 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
jimmyinthewell68 wrote:who would be 606v2 choice of thug of the year .
Biltong do you accept this award on behalf of South Africa?

It will be my honour, and I will wear it with distinction.

by Scratch Tue 19 Nov 2013, 4:28 pm

wrfc1980 wrote:Halfpenny is a traditional full back. Great positioning, decent under the high ball but doesn't bring a huge amount going forward. Take away his kicking and he becomes just a solid full back. A good player but there are better in his position

Such as?

by Taylorman Tue 19 Nov 2013, 4:31 pm

Biltong wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
jimmyinthewell68 wrote:who would be 606v2 choice of thug of the year .
Biltong do you accept this award on behalf of South Africa?
It will be my honour, and I will wear it with distinction.

What this year and 2011 biltong! You're becoming the real McCaw! Well done.

by fa0019 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 4:32 pm

Scratch wrote:
wrfc1980 wrote:Halfpenny is a traditional full back. Great positioning, decent under the high ball but doesn't bring a huge amount going forward. Take away his kicking and he becomes just a solid full back. A good player but there are better in his position
Such as?

outside of his place kicking I'd rather have Folau & Dagg and think Huget, Brown & Le Roux are at the same level from an open play point of view.

by Scratch Tue 19 Nov 2013, 4:38 pm

It is interesting how exceptional kickers get this rep because not all aspects of their game are as exceptional as their kicking…thinking Patterson, Jenkins…..fact is Half is a match winner and even a tour winner. He created 2 tries in the final test, is exceptional under the high ball and finishes but because his kicking is so good he is regarded as being carried to some extent because elf that

by fa0019 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 4:43 pm

Scratch wrote:It is interesting how exceptional kickers get this rep because not all aspects of their game are as exceptional as their kicking…thinking Patterson, Jenkins…..fact is Half is a match winner and even a tour winner. He created 2 tries in the final test, is exceptional under the high ball and finishes but because his kicking is so good he is regarded as being carried to some extent because elf that

He only really got into the series in the 3rd test bar his kicking. He was hardly used attacking wise up until then (as much to do with strategy as anything else). He has talent don't get me wrong. But his average place kicking rate is over-rated... Morne is still the king there.

Attack wise there are simply better players. Overall though he's very very good and world class for sure. But if teams have flyhalves as good then his kicking is simply a luxury and his Fullback skills are what his like for like comparisons should be based on.

by Taylorman Tue 19 Nov 2013, 4:51 pm

Scratch wrote:It is interesting how exceptional kickers get this rep because not all aspects of their game are as exceptional as their kicking…thinking Patterson, Jenkins…..fact is Half is a match winner and even a tour winner. He created 2 tries in the final test, is exceptional under the high ball and finishes but because his kicking is so good he is regarded as being carried to some extent because elf that

Compared to the amount of contributions dagg has made on attack this year halfpenny pales. You can pick them out on one hand. And if a fullback is going to get player of the year he had better be up there regularly contributing. The fact that he wasn't suggests someone didn't place much value on his attacking game regardless of the reason. His ability under the high ball is certainly no better than daggs nor does he use it on attack, where the ABs often use it to regain the ball.

He's had a better year than dagg...this year. But reads completeness of the role outpoints halfpenny for contribution, impact and quality of play.
Though for other reasons...halfpenny will get it.

by Bullsbok Tue 19 Nov 2013, 5:28 pm

Scratch wrote:It is interesting how exceptional kickers get this rep because not all aspects of their game are as exceptional as their kicking…thinking Patterson, Jenkins…..fact is Half is a match winner and even a tour winner. He created 2 tries in the final test, is exceptional under the high ball and finishes but because his kicking is so good he is regarded as being carried to some extent because elf that

Thats exactly it , if he wins the POTY he's going to get if for the 3rd test , all the hype and glory from that decider are whats going to win the award. Not his play during the year and we all know it .

by flyhalffactory Tue 19 Nov 2013, 5:41 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Without a shadow of a doubt it has to be Halfpenny, even taking into account Read has been exceptional in a squad of world class players. The thing that has turned it for Halfpenny is his accolades over not just twelve months of consistent world class play but probably the last eighteen.... 2012 player of the series against Oz, 2013 6Ns Player of the tournament, 2013 Lions Player of the tournament including most points in a series, and most points in a test match. Take into account his age... he is only 24 now and the atrocious injuries that have plagued him since he was called at 19 into the 2009 Lions tour (serious thigh injury), 2010 (neck, ankle), 2011 (thigh I think), the guy is phenomenal. It beggars belief when people say if he wasn't for his kicking he wouldn't be up there with the best, I just can't imagine Dagg performing as good as Halfpenny if he wore the Red 15 shirt instead of the Black one, and has far as Daggs booming kicks well 1/2p hits 50m dead ball pens with ease and punts out of hand at what must be 70m.

As good as Mr Read has been you have to take into account he plays with 22 world class players at international level, so its got to be Mr Halfpenny for me.
Whenver I see this logic it amuses me as to where this track of thought takes you.

Several months ago we had a thread asking the question who was the better centre Brian O'Driscoll or Conrad Smith, we were told to ignore Smith because he played in a far better team and was surrounded by 22 World class players.

Next we had the debate, who was the better fullback Israel Dagg or Leigh Half Penny (remember Bluesmancometh?), we were told that Dagg had an unfair advantage because he played for the best team in the World, surrounded by the best players that anyone could play fullback for the All Blacks.

Now I see that we have to take into account that Read Plays with 22 World class players as well....

Now if this is going to occur every time an All Black is nominated for an award etc I suggest we go through the entire All black team and when we get to the 21 st we will have identified the 22nd player, who must be the most brilliant rugby player walking the Earth.

Just because it bemuses you doesn't make it valid.

The rationale is its much better to play good, look good when you have fourteen other players who are the best of breed giving you that time, space and confidence to play at the top of your game, rather than play against fifteen world class players and look good.

I don't think we were asked to ignore Smith but just to acknowledge the world class support in attack and defence he gets from 14 other players on the park, where BOD might not have that level of team mate, he still did in the past and even at times now hurt those cumulative set of world class players.

Here's a simple question for you: taken into account the clamour of many that take away Halfpennys kicking then Israel Dagg is a better FB..... do you think that if Dagg had played for Wales and Halfpenny had played for the All Blacks over the last 18 months we would have had a different view on both players.

by flyhalffactory Tue 19 Nov 2013, 5:43 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
Scratch wrote:It is interesting how exceptional kickers get this rep because not all aspects of their game are as exceptional as their kicking…thinking Patterson, Jenkins…..fact is Half is a match winner and even a tour winner. He created 2 tries in the final test, is exceptional under the high ball and finishes but because his kicking is so good he is regarded as being carried to some extent because elf that
Thats exactly it , if he wins the POTY he's going to get if for the 3rd test , all the hype and glory from that decider are whats going to win the award. Not his play during the year and we all know it .

Utter tosh

He has played at an exceptional level for 18 months...........

by quinsforever Tue 19 Nov 2013, 5:48 pm

read is the best player on the best side (quite possibly ever in terms of results) in world rugby, in their best season (no losses...sorry ireland can't believe there's going to be an upset). and that is including against an SA team which quite frankly looks streets above the best that the NH has to offer.

If 1/2P gets the nod it won't be based on the facts.

by Scratch Tue 19 Nov 2013, 5:49 pm

This year alone Half scored 79 of Wales 122 6 Nations points this year as they successfully defended the title….that's more than Read in his entire career with significantly fewer caps

Not to mention the fact he also scored 49 of the lions 70 plus test points while creating two superb tries in the final test

Half wins games and tours, can Read claim that? no.

Half justifiably deserves the win this year but I would be happy if read wins it on merit if that is what is decided.

Sad that some have to suggest Half will win it by default.

by quinsforever Tue 19 Nov 2013, 5:51 pm

"Here's a simple question for you: taken into account the clamour of many that take away Halfpennys kicking then Israel Dagg is a better FB..... do you think that if Dagg had played for Wales and Halfpenny had played for the All Blacks over the last 18 months we would have had a different view on both players. "

if HP had played for the ABs he wouldnt even be on the shortlist.

by Bullsbok Tue 19 Nov 2013, 5:52 pm

Scratch wrote:This year alone Half scored 79 of Wales 122 6 Nations points this year as they successfully defended the title….that's more than Read in his entire career with significantly fewer caps

Not to mention the fact he also scored 49 of the lions 70 plus test points while creating two superb tries in the final test

Half wins games and tours, can Read claim that? no.

Half justifiably deserves the win this year but I would be happy if read wins it on merit if that is what is decided.

Sad that some have to suggest Half will win it by default.

Keiran Read is an 8th Man . Its not his job to score points ! His job is to provide go forward . Thats a poor poor post mate . Read probably has more try assists than halfpenny this year and i know for a fact he's got more tries this year alone

by flyhalffactory Tue 19 Nov 2013, 5:59 pm

quinsforever wrote:read is the best player on the best side (quite possibly ever in terms of results) in world rugby, in their best season (no losses...sorry ireland can't believe there's going to be an upset). and that is including against an SA team which quite frankly looks streets above the best that the NH has to offer.

If 1/2P gets the nod it won't be based on the facts.

That my friend is not a fact but your opinion

by flyhalffactory Tue 19 Nov 2013, 6:00 pm

quinsforever wrote:"Here's a simple question for you: taken into account the clamour of many that take away Halfpennys kicking then Israel Dagg is a better FB..... do you think that if Dagg had played for Wales and Halfpenny had played for the All Blacks over the last 18 months we would have had a different view on both players. "

if HP had played for the ABs he wouldnt even be on the shortlist.

Pray tell the forum why?

by Scratch Tue 19 Nov 2013, 6:07 pm

quinsforever wrote:read is the best player on the best side (quite possibly ever in terms of results) in world rugby, in their best season (no losses...sorry ireland can't believe there's going to be an upset). and that is including against an SA team which quite frankly looks streets above the best that the NH has to offer.

If 1/2P gets the nod it won't be based on the facts.

its a player of the year award, not a celebration of being the 'best' player in the 'best' team with the 'best' result. What does best mean anyway?

It's to mark individual achievement and impact not picking the shiniest player in the shiniest team just because they are shiny

If anything, based on your usual analysis of Wales, Halfpenny's achievement is even greater surrounded by such a poor side

As a player Half is unsurpassed this year, his individual impact has been immense in 2 of rugby's biggest competitions

As an 8, likewise read is way ahead of any other player in that position except perhaps parisse and he has been outstanding for NZ in an outstanding year

by Bullsbok Tue 19 Nov 2013, 6:10 pm

Scratch wrote:
quinsforever wrote:read is the best player on the best side (quite possibly ever in terms of results) in world rugby, in their best season (no losses...sorry ireland can't believe there's going to be an upset). and that is including against an SA team which quite frankly looks streets above the best that the NH has to offer.

If 1/2P gets the nod it won't be based on the facts.
its a player of the year award, not a celebration of being the 'best' player in the 'best' team with the 'best' result. What does best mean anyway?

It's to mark individual achievement and impact not picking the shiniest player in the shiniest team just because they are shiny

If anything, based on your usual analysis of Wales, Halfpenny's achievement is even greater surrounded by such a poor side

As a player Half is unsurpassed this year, his individual impact has been immense in 2 of rugby's biggest competitions

As an 8, likewise read is way ahead of any other player in that position except perhaps parisse and he has been outstanding for NZ in an outstanding year

As a kicker 1/2p is unsurpassed this year . As a player Theres no Answer to Keiran Read

by quinsforever Tue 19 Nov 2013, 6:17 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
quinsforever wrote:"Here's a simple question for you: taken into account the clamour of many that take away Halfpennys kicking then Israel Dagg is a better FB..... do you think that if Dagg had played for Wales and Halfpenny had played for the All Blacks over the last 18 months we would have had a different view on both players. "

if HP had played for the ABs he wouldnt even be on the shortlist.
Pray tell the forum why?

because there would be several players ahead of him in terms of contribution. NZ win by scoring tries. like kieran read - most tries ever by an intl number 8 and he's 28 and only played 60 tests. 1/2P would not have been needed to win games with his boot.

by quinsforever Tue 19 Nov 2013, 6:18 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
quinsforever wrote:read is the best player on the best side (quite possibly ever in terms of results) in world rugby, in their best season (no losses...sorry ireland can't believe there's going to be an upset). and that is including against an SA team which quite frankly looks streets above the best that the NH has to offer.

If 1/2P gets the nod it won't be based on the facts.
That my friend is not a fact but your opinion

indeed

by Scratch Tue 19 Nov 2013, 6:18 pm

More Bull

Yes there is

This is not NFL, he doesn't pop on to kick and then sneak of for a rub down between kicks, rugby is won by kickers and kicking wins tournaments.

And that's if you just naively write him off as a kicker

Why doesn't Read kick? Its a poor part of his game he needs to work on, hardly the complete player is he.

Look, i have already said it is hard to com are like with like, Half doesn't have to do what Read does to be comparable or worthy even of comparison and viva versa, both are incomparable players this season

But Half has directly, through his boot, won two major tournaments

Read hasn't solely done that for NZ.

Who'd be a kicker anyway, you win the games and then get written off because you aren't a PLAYER

by Bullsbok Tue 19 Nov 2013, 6:38 pm

Scratch wrote:More Bull

Yes there is

This is not NFL, he doesn't pop on to kick and then sneak of for a rub down between kicks, rugby is won by kickers and kicking wins tournaments.

And that's if you just naively write him off as a kicker

Why doesn't Read kick? Its a poor part of his game he needs to work on, hardly the complete player is he.

Look, i have already said it is hard to com are like with like, Half doesn't have to do what Read does to be comparable or worthy even of comparison and viva versa, both are incomparable players this season

But Half has directly, through his boot, won two major tournaments

Read hasn't solely done that for NZ.

Who'd be a kicker anyway, you win the games and then get written off because you aren't a PLAYER

So because Read plays for a team that doesnt have to rely on the boot of one man to win , he shouldnt be player of the year over 1/2p . Well noted

by Scratch Tue 19 Nov 2013, 6:54 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
Scratch wrote:More Bull

Yes there is

This is not NFL, he doesn't pop on to kick and then sneak of for a rub down between kicks, rugby is won by kickers and kicking wins tournaments.

And that's if you just naively write him off as a kicker

Why doesn't Read kick? Its a poor part of his game he needs to work on, hardly the complete player is he.

Look, i have already said it is hard to com are like with like, Half doesn't have to do what Read does to be comparable or worthy even of comparison and viva versa, both are incomparable players this season

But Half has directly, through his boot, won two major tournaments

Read hasn't solely done that for NZ.

Who'd be a kicker anyway, you win the games and then get written off because you aren't a PLAYER
So because Read plays for a team that doesnt have to rely on the boot of one man to win , he shouldnt be player of the year over 1/2p . Well noted

Relying on the boot of one man?

Carter
100 tests, 1440 points and 29 tries
1295 FROM THE BOOT or 89%

Half
46 Tests, 378 points and 12 tries
318 FROM THE BOOT or 84%

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