Welsh exodus thread AKA another one bites the dust thread

[The Saint]

First topic message reminder :

I can't find the original transfer thread so apologies if this is clogging up the forum.

JD2 to Clermont - confirmed

Latest rumours is that Bradley Davies is set to link up with former coach Dai Young at Wasps. Ian Evans may be joining Toulon and the rumours that AWJ is going to Clermont are still circling. With Charteris already at Perpignan, that's potentially our first 4 lock fowards playing outside of Wales....

[ScarletSpiderman]

I have read elsewhere, that there are some serious allegations about players being told that signing for the regions would not be a wise move if they are wanting to prolong their career. IF there is any truth in these allegations then I fear it is game over already.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Found the comment that sparked the whole WRU are willing to destroy the regions, read it as you will, but Gwyn is generally a pretty straight talker, so I doubt that he has any political interest in stirring the pot. Well unless he wants to take Roger Lewis' job of course.

What I think the Union want to do...and this is my idea...is they've to all intents and purposes given up on this generation of players and accept that many of them will go, and in the meantime they'll wait for the regions to get so weak financially that the Union can come in, take everything over, cut the number of teams to three or even two, and fund the two teams themselves. So everybody will be contracted to the Union and they will control everything. And that's how I think that they see the future. I don't know if that's true, but everything that's happening suggests the Union are happy to see the regions die.

[HammerofThunor]

Just to be clear though he just made that up. Might be right. Might not.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Thunor, yes that is allegation and not fact. And it is definitely not proof of any dodgy dealing over contracts or daggers being hidden under black robes. However, it is also someone who is pretty much on the money, most the time, and highly respected saying things that many of us have been ridiculed on here for saying. People like Gwyn Jones are very careful about what they say, and for him to say this makes me feel it may be too late for welsh rugby now.

[Chunky Norwich]

Should be run by a journo in Wales. But won't be. They'll rather lift a comment from the likes of Jiffy about Hook's best position etc.

Shameful. Village Idiots of Rugby.

[HammerofThunor]

I didn't say he was wrong  

Just that he doesn't have (or at least claimed to have) insider information or anyhting like that. It's a case of looking at what is happening and coming to a conclusion.

[ScarletSpiderman]

I honestly try to keep up beat about the state of Welsh rugby, and I always have, but the last time I have been this down about it was back when we had that muppet Moffet at the top. And on top of all this I have to bleeding drive all the way to Norfolk tomorrow to visit my bloody in-laws. Can it get any worse.

[Chunky Norwich]

I didn't say he was wrong  

Just that he doesn't have (or at least claimed to have) insider information or anyhting like that. It's a case of looking at what is happening and coming to a conclusion.

And that conclusion is pretty much spot on. As anyone who has followed Welsh rugby in the last 5 years can see.

[Cardiff Dave]

Should be run by a journo in Wales. But won't be. They'll rather lift a comment from the likes of Jiffy about Hook's best position etc.

Shameful. Village Idiots of Rugby.

Dr Gwyn himself maybe?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/authors/gwyn-jones/

[Chunky Norwich]

Should be run by a journo in Wales. But won't be. They'll rather lift a comment from the likes of Jiffy about Hook's best position etc.

Shameful. Village Idiots of Rugby.

Dr Gwyn himself maybe?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/authors/gwyn-jones/

 Good one.

I wouldn't be surprised if his access card to Thomson House was cancelled this morning.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Found the comment that sparked the whole WRU are willing to destroy the regions, read it as you will, but Gwyn is generally a pretty straight talker, so I doubt that he has any political interest in stirring the pot.  Well unless he wants to take Roger Lewis' job of course.

What I think the Union want to do...and this is my idea...is they've to all intents and purposes given up on this generation of players and accept that many of them will go, and in the meantime they'll wait for the regions to get so weak financially that the Union can come in, take everything over, cut the number of teams to three or even two, and fund the two teams themselves. So everybody will be contracted to the Union and they will control everything. And that's how I think that they see the future. I don't know if that's true, but everything that's happening suggests the Union are happy to see the regions die.

It would explain the apparent acceleration of current Wales players leaving - Hibbard going even though there's a year left on his contract. That seems deeply fishy to me.

[Comfort]

The WRU are loving this.

They want the regions to become nurseries for bringing through talent.

They want that talent to be paid/insured by other leagues and clubs.

They want those players to have full release written into their contracts with said clubs to enable them to play internationally (see North), which is where the WRU make the majoirty of their cash from.

Plan 'Team Wales' is in affect, its all about the benjamins.

[doctornickolas]

What is the point in the regions even thinking of joining the Aviva if all of their best players will have left and the regions just have youngsters and old foreign mercenaries left.

Can we get it all sorted by next week please as I was going to get my nieces a Cardiff blues top each next week but maybe I should get them something else instead.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

What is the point in the regions even thinking of joining the Aviva if all of their best players will have left and the regions just have youngsters and old foreign mercenaries left.

Precisely the WRU's thinking.

[Chunky Norwich]

What is the point in the regions even thinking of joining the Aviva if all of their best players will have left and the regions just have youngsters and old foreign mercenaries left.

Because the alternative is a slow painful death.

[geoff999rugby]

Seems to me if the quote above is true the Regions are finished.

IRB and WRU will not sanction, joining the Aviva, so it wont happen.

This is going to get very messy

[Chunky Norwich]

Seems to me if the quote above is true the Regions are finished.

IRB and WRU will not sanction, joining the Aviva, so it wont happen.

This is going to get very messy

Then it goes to court, and the IRB will have to justify how they advocate forcing 4 private businesses to be restricted in trade rather than allowing them to conduct their own business deals and prosper.

[Cardiff Dave]

Should be run by a journo in Wales. But won't be. They'll rather lift a comment from the likes of Jiffy about Hook's best position etc.

Shameful. Village Idiots of Rugby.

Dr Gwyn himself maybe?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/authors/gwyn-jones/

 Good one.

I wouldn't be surprised if his access card to Thomson House was cancelled this morning.

Does he have the balls though. Nobody had any during the CCS debacle.

[geoff999rugby]

Fine they may win but that means the Aviva will not longer be under the Rugby Union umbrella.

the eRFU will not take that doomsday option to accommodate a few Welsh teams.

[Dre280783]

I think Gyn's prediction is correct. The regions have been a failure. Whether you are a fan of the regions or not, at the end of the day they are not sustainable and only exists becuase the WRU brankroll them. The money is in international rugby and so this is where the efforts should be concentrated.

It quite interesting that all the players leaving this season signed for 2 years and the ones last year signed 3 years. Have the WRU told the players that they will resign them once them in 2016, conspiracy anyone?

Also I believe the WRU should Own the clubs so that they can control players placement, so we would end up with situations like at the scarelets where they have 3 good scrum halfs and Ospreys none, or where the ospreys have 3 good fly halfs and the blues only have one.

[Chunky Norwich]

I think Gyn's prediction is correct. The regions have been a failure. Whether you are a fan of the regions or not, at the end of the day they are not sustainable and only exists becuase the WRU brankroll them. The money is in international rugby and so this is where the efforts should be concentrated.

It quite interesting that all the players leaving this season signed for 2 years and the ones last year signed 3 years. Have the WRU told the players that they will resign them once them in 2016, conspiracy anyone?

Also I believe the WRU should Own the clubs so that they can control players placement, so we would end up with situations like at the scarelets where they have 3 good scrum halfs and Ospreys none, or where the ospreys have 3 good fly halfs and the blues only have one.

So do you believe that all the clubs in England who aren't making a profit and rely on external money have also all been a failure?

[Dre280783]

Chunky,

depends on how you want to measure a business. If they aren't making a profit but are winning trophies then you would argue that they are a success. But if you were basing it on profit then yeah they would be a failure.

I thought the whole point of the Regions was to combine all the best talent in Wales to four locations, and to develop all the young talent from the feed clubs. This inturn was supposed to bring the crowds and success and would filter through to the national team.

I would argu that the success we have had to date from the regions has been short lived and built on sand. THe development of the youth has worked well and success has filtered through to the National Team. However the crowds have never come or embraced the regions and now we are in the situation of loosing our top 20 players to France and England.

You are always going to lose a few players to going abroad but to lose almost your whole team is redicouls. The only way I can see the whole thing working is going down to two or three teams and the WRU running the show. It's not ideal but its the only way I see it going unless we find some multi millionaires who are willing to bankroll the regions.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Chunky,

depends on how you want to measure a business. If they aren't making a profit but are winning trophies then you would argue that they are a success. But if you were basing it on profit then yeah they would be a failure.

I thought the whole point of the Regions was to combine all the best talent in Wales to four locations, and to develop all the young talent from the feed clubs. This inturn was supposed to bring the crowds and success and would filter through to the national team.

I would argu that the success we have had to date from the regions has been short lived and built on sand. THe development of the youth has worked well and success has filtered through to the National Team. However the crowds have never come or embraced the regions and now we are in the situation of loosing our top 20 players to France and England.

You are always going to lose a few players to going abroad but to lose almost your whole team is redicouls. The only way I can see the whole thing working is going down to two or three teams and the WRU running the show. It's not ideal but its the only way I see it going unless we find some multi millionaires who are willing to bankroll the regions.

Not many multi-millionaires would want to invest money with their hands tied.

[Chunky Norwich]

There are multi millionaires running the regions. Plenty of them. But as said above, why would you invest in a team that is so hamstrung by it's own Union? An organisation that is supposed to be helping them not hindering them. There are plenty of English sides who haven't won a trophy in recent years and don't make a profit. Your logic is flawed.

For a Union to offer the same funding right up to 2018 as it offered in 2008 is derisory.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Especially when the WRU are raking it in.

[Dre280783]

Chucky,
 
If my logic is flawed then why are the english benefactors willing to pump their money in to the clubs to not make a profit and to not win tropies and the welsh are not??
 
The fact is Wales regions are not compareable to the English. How can my logic be flawed as I never stated that tropies or profit are what determines success. You stated profit.
 
I am not in favour of the regions or Union, but it is the only way I can see it.
 
You argue for the Regions stating that the WRU is hindering them, but you cant exactly say they are helping themseleves. neither side covers it self in glory.
 
WRU can't offer the regions more money if they haven't got it, what do you want the union to do bankcrupt it self so the regions can squander the money????

[Chunky Norwich]

Chucky,
 
If my logic is flawed then why are the english benefactors willing to pump their money in to the clubs to not make a profit and to not win tropies and the welsh are not??

You seriously need this explaining to you?

One fact: The English clubs get £2m compensation from playing the 4th Autumn International outside the window. The Welsh regions get £400,000 between them.

The fact is Wales regions are not compareable to the English. How can my logic be flawed as I never stated that tropies or profit are what determines success. You stated profit.

eh? you stated:

If they aren't making a profit but are winning trophies then you would argue that they are a success. But if you were basing it on profit then yeah they would be a failure.

so I have no idea what you mean.
 

You argue for the Regions stating that the WRU is hindering them, but you cant exactly say they are helping themseleves. neither side covers it self in glory.
 
WRU can't offer the regions more money if they haven't got it, what do you want the union to do bankcrupt it self so the regions can squander the money????

So in 2012, the WRU had record turnover, has recently offered to buy cardiff arms park for £11m, has recently refurbished the hospitality boxes for £3m, has recently repaid debt faster than it needed to, yet you say it hasn't got extra money to offer?

You need to do a bit of research in the subject with all due respect.

[ScarletSpiderman]

What I struggle to understand is the Union, is exactly that a union. It is run by and for the rugby public of the nation. Now that is the regions and clubs in Wales. So I find it weird that the union can threaten the regions. Last year during the poopstorm kicked up about central contracts etc the clubs supported the regions, so do the union actually have any power or can the clubs/regions revolt and get rid of the corrupt egomaniacs at the top?

[Dre280783]

1) Turnover doesn't equal profit or working capital
2) £11M offered would probably have been borrowed.
3) You stated that do i consider English clubs that make a loss a failure, i stated depends on what the club consider its goals or failures not me, not sure how that is so hard to under stand.
4) RFU has a lot more money in the coffers so are able to pay more money to the clubs.
 
you clearly one of those people have the head stuck in the sand and blame the union for all the regions problems, rather than seeing that both side are at fault.
 
You clearly all knowing, and know what the right thing is to do, so you might want to pick up the phone to the WRU and RRW and tell them you have a solution.
 
cant be bother to discuss this with you as you just throw circular arguments.

[Chunky Norwich]

What I struggle to understand is the Union, is exactly that a union.  It is run by and for the rugby public of the nation.  Now that is the regions and clubs in Wales.  So I find it weird that the union can threaten the regions.  Last year during the poopstorm kicked up about central contracts etc the clubs supported the regions, so do the union actually have any power or can the clubs/regions revolt and get rid of the corrupt egomaniacs at the top?

They can call an EGM and vote the board out I think. But lots of clubs think Lewis is brilliant because he funds them fairly (so I'm told). It's the golden goose that he has at the millennium stadium where the problem lies. He doesn't see a need to change anything.

[Cardiff Dave]

Chucky,
 
If my logic is flawed then why are the english benefactors willing to pump their money in to the clubs to not make a profit and to not win tropies and the welsh are not??
 
The fact is Wales regions are not compareable to the English. How can my logic be flawed as I never stated that tropies or profit are what determines success. You stated profit.
 
I am not in favour of the regions or Union, but it is the only way I can see it.
 
You argue for the Regions stating that the WRU is hindering them, but you cant exactly say they are helping themseleves. neither side covers it self in glory.
 
WRU can't offer the regions more money if they haven't got it, what do you want the union to do bankcrupt it self so the regions can squander the money????

Recently, a bloke joined the board at Cardiff and bunged in £500,000 of his own cash.
They've invested in a new pitch, are actively marketing the spruced up Arms Park and the signs are they are finally making a profit. More to do however, but the situation is miles better than it was following the CCS shambles.
If the PA was a tad more favourable I have no doubt the rich blokes would invest more of their wealth.
Just saying like.

[Chunky Norwich]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/simon-thomas-sadly-theres-no-6375541

[ScarletSpiderman]

Chucky,
 
If my logic is flawed then why are the english benefactors willing to pump their money in to the clubs to not make a profit and to not win tropies and the welsh are not??
 
The fact is Wales regions are not compareable to the English. How can my logic be flawed as I never stated that tropies or profit are what determines success. You stated profit.
 
I am not in favour of the regions or Union, but it is the only way I can see it.
 
You argue for the Regions stating that the WRU is hindering them, but you cant exactly say they are helping themseleves. neither side covers it self in glory.
 
WRU can't offer the regions more money if they haven't got it, what do you want the union to do bankcrupt it self so the regions can squander the money????

Recently, a bloke joined the board at Cardiff and bunged in £500,000 of his own cash.
They've invested in a new pitch, are actively marketing the spruced up Arms Park and the signs are they are finally making a profit. More to do however, but the situation is miles better than it was following the CCS shambles.
If the PA was a tad more favourable I have no doubt the rich blokes would invest more of their wealth.
Just saying like.

 

No business man goes into anything to make a loss. All the backers at the regions are trying their damnedest to turn a profit, but it is pretty awkward for them to do so when it seems they are almost in direct competition with an organisation that is actually meant to be there support.

[Cardiff Dave]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/simon-thomas-sadly-theres-no-6375541

Dr Gwyn's views on the record for all to see. Good show.

[maestegmafia]

Chucky,
 
If my logic is flawed then why are the english benefactors willing to pump their money in to the clubs to not make a profit and to not win tropies and the welsh are not??
 
The fact is Wales regions are not compareable to the English. How can my logic be flawed as I never stated that tropies or profit are what determines success. You stated profit.
 
I am not in favour of the regions or Union, but it is the only way I can see it.
 
You argue for the Regions stating that the WRU is hindering them, but you cant exactly say they are helping themseleves. neither side covers it self in glory.
 
WRU can't offer the regions more money if they haven't got it, what do you want the union to do bankcrupt it self so the regions can squander the money????

Recently, a bloke joined the board at Cardiff and bunged in £500,000 of his own cash.
They've invested in a new pitch, are actively marketing the spruced up Arms Park and the signs are they are finally making a profit. More to do however, but the situation is miles better than it was following the CCS shambles.
If the PA was a tad more favourable I have no doubt the rich blokes would invest more of their wealth.
Just saying like.

 

No business man goes into anything to make a loss.  All the backers at the regions are trying their damnedest to turn a profit, but it is pretty awkward for them to do so when it seems they are almost in direct competition with an organisation that is actually meant to be there support.

In opposition in what way...?

Because the WRU select players, because they pay the Regions for the use of those players.

No businessman goes into anything to make a loss, then why do these backers continue to make losses...? Surely it is their business model that is at fault.

The WRU gives them a set amount they agreed to in the last PA. The Regions backers also know when the Welsh players will be unavailable, they agreed to the conditions they have to operate under regarding foreign players, wage caps etc.

Though they are still putting their hands out and asking for more, for help from a governing body that reinvests its profits back into the game.

[doctornickolas]

I think Gyn's prediction is correct. The regions have been a failure. Whether you are a fan of the regions or not, at the end of the day they are not sustainable and only exists becuase the WRU brankroll them. The money is in international rugby and so this is where the efforts should be concentrated.

It quite interesting that all the players leaving this season signed for 2 years and the ones last year signed 3 years. Have the WRU told the players that they will resign them once them in 2016, conspiracy anyone?

Also I believe the WRU should Own the clubs so that they can control players placement, so we would end up with situations like at the scarelets where they have 3 good scrum halfs and Ospreys none, or where the ospreys have 3 good fly halfs and the blues only have one.

These boards are not the place to be talking complete common sense. Prepared to be shot down.

[Cardiff Dave]

What I struggle to understand is the Union, is exactly that a union.  It is run by and for the rugby public of the nation.  Now that is the regions and clubs in Wales.  So I find it weird that the union can threaten the regions.  Last year during the poopstorm kicked up about central contracts etc the clubs supported the regions, so do the union actually have any power or can the clubs/regions revolt and get rid of the corrupt egomaniacs at the top?

Don't the "regions" get one vote each, if it came to that, just like Aberflyhalf RFC?

[Casartelli]

What I struggle to understand is the Union, is exactly that a union.  It is run by and for the rugby public of the nation.  Now that is the regions and clubs in Wales.  So I find it weird that the union can threaten the regions.  Last year during the poopstorm kicked up about central contracts etc the clubs supported the regions, so do the union actually have any power or can the clubs/regions revolt and get rid of the corrupt egomaniacs at the top?

We are in a very bad place, administratively. Things are so muddled and the bad feeling runs so deep that there just isn't a quick fix now. In many ways the WRU and the regional boards are as bad (and clueless) as each other.

Things will get worse before they get better.

The optimistic view is that the player exodus will somehow act as a catalyst for something, anything, to change.

[VinceWLB]

Lets face it, Welsh internationnals are no value for money, The Blues lost their 2 centres, Warburton, Jenkins and it's a miracle Cuthbert didn't get injured against Australia, right before a crucial game against Glasgow.

Oh i get it WRU has no money left for compensating these players wages while they get injured on training camp or whatever they are doing, not.

[Dre280783]

The whole North Hempshire calander is a mess, it doesn't help having the season in segmentated bloke, All nations have a problem with a fragmented season I can't see why we can't restructure the season so we have something like Autumn internations, domestic League, European Cup, Six Nations, end of years.
 
This way we would never have an argument for losing players and the clubs would be able to manage the players better.
 
No one seems intrested in this and everyone seems intent on protecting their little domain. That Article from Simon Thomas was qute interesting.
 
I do feel sorry for the regions, but I would prefer a union run club game, so we could end all this in fighting, I can ever see there being a truths between regions and the WRU until one of them goes, which is most likely to be the regions.

[Cardiff Dave]

Chucky,
 
If my logic is flawed then why are the english benefactors willing to pump their money in to the clubs to not make a profit and to not win tropies and the welsh are not??
 
The fact is Wales regions are not compareable to the English. How can my logic be flawed as I never stated that tropies or profit are what determines success. You stated profit.
 
I am not in favour of the regions or Union, but it is the only way I can see it.
 
You argue for the Regions stating that the WRU is hindering them, but you cant exactly say they are helping themseleves. neither side covers it self in glory.
 
WRU can't offer the regions more money if they haven't got it, what do you want the union to do bankcrupt it self so the regions can squander the money????

Recently, a bloke joined the board at Cardiff and bunged in £500,000 of his own cash.
They've invested in a new pitch, are actively marketing the spruced up Arms Park and the signs are they are finally making a profit. More to do however, but the situation is miles better than it was following the CCS shambles.
If the PA was a tad more favourable I have no doubt the rich blokes would invest more of their wealth.
Just saying like.

 

No business man goes into anything to make a loss.  All the backers at the regions are trying their damnedest to turn a profit, but it is pretty awkward for them to do so when it seems they are almost in direct competition with an organisation that is actually meant to be there support.

In opposition in what way...?

Because the WRU select players, because they pay the Regions for the use of those players.

No businessman goes into anything to make a loss, then why do these backers continue to make losses...? Surely it is their business model that is at fault.

The WRU gives them a set amount they agreed to in the last PA. The Regions backers also know when the Welsh players will be unavailable, they agreed to the conditions they have to operate under regarding foreign players, wage caps etc.

Though they are still putting their hands out and asking for more, for help from a governing body that reinvests its profits back into the game.

Over to you SS. I'm going to have a lie down.

[maestegmafia]

The whole North Hempshire calander is a mess, it doesn't help having the season in segmentated bloke, All nations have a problem with a fragmented season I can't see why we can't restructure the season so we have something like Autumn internations, domestic League, European Cup, Six Nations, end of years.
 
This way we would never have an argument for losing players and the clubs would be able to manage the players better.
 
No one seems intrested in this and everyone seems intent on protecting their little domain. That Article from Simon Thomas was qute interesting.
 
I do feel sorry for the regions, but I would prefer a union run club game, so we could end all this in fighting, I can ever see there being a truths between regions and the WRU until one of them goes, which is most likely to be the regions.

That is unfortunately my take on the current situation too. It is not a very nice way to go about reorganising the regions but I think it is for the long term best.

So far as i can remember, the only reason that the WRU franchised the regions in the first place was because they were flat broke and had no option but to do so.

That unfortunate situation, mismanagement of the Welsh Rugby by the WRU throughout the last forty years most likely being the cause, is what has left us with an ugly transition to professionalism and what will hopefully be a solid platform on which to build for the future.

[HammerofThunor]

Whatever happens, hopefully it'll be sorted sooner rather than later and will be the best for Welsh rugby (as a whole, not just the national side or just the regions or just the clubs).

[ScarletSpiderman]

Maes - The WRU set up the LV=, and now the regions are in competition with the WRU, nearly every time the Welsh team are playing, for the general public through the gate. The continual price hikes at the MS, whilst no increase in funding to the regions, means that there are people who would attend international games and regional games, that are now financially only able to chose either a few international games or a fair few at the regions, again direct competition. Even Judgement Day is a bit of a farce, it is a great idea in principle, ideal for the fans and big attndances for the regions. But then look at the ticket prices, are the regions really getting any more out of the attendance than they would at their own venues? Probably not, are the regions making money selling food and drinks, no. Is the WRU getting a fair bit of cash fro the sales of drink and stuff. Yes.

Even on the TV. BBC Scrum V, it shows all the highlights of the Rabo Pro 12, and they discuss the regions in the HEC (although can not show highlights fair enough), but then when the internationals are on they totally ignore that the regions are still playing in the LV=, not even a split second to show the scores. And if the Rabo is on during the AIs, 6Ns they show a try from each game the regions play, and then they show every try from Scotland V bleeding Tonga or whatever.

I have said on these boards so many times, the Union is meant to support the regions. Even if they were in a position where they could not put any more money in, they could promote the regions. The WRU do run a load of newsletters on the email leading up to the AIs and to the 6NS, why not just fire on off every week to say "This weekend the regions fixtures are ......Their next home games are......Buy tickets from here.....". Or even during the AIs, they could put up on the big screen, don't forget that all you internationals stars are back on regional duty in the HEC next weekend, but they don't.

I agree 100% with Dr. Gwyn, the union want the regions gone, then they can run their game themselves without the risk of anyone else trying to get any money from it, and they will destroy everything in their way to get what they want. We are at another 2003 moment, and yet again people are blindly trusting the union without actually thinking of themselves. Wales is a country that is known world wide for its sheep, but sadly those sheep are the tools that are letting Roger Lewis kill off our national game from the top down.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

The WRU gives them a set amount they agreed to in the last PA. The Regions backers also know when the Welsh players will be unavailable, they agreed to the conditions they have to operate under regarding foreign players, wage caps etc.

Though they are still putting their hands out and asking for more, for help from a governing body that reinvests its profits back into the game.

Don't the regions count? Are they not part of 'the game'? Where's the reinvestment there?

The regions - the Welsh regions - are the WRU's and the nation's representatives in the Pro12 and in Europe. Why doesn't the governing body want them to do as well as they can? Why isn't it ashamed to be underfunding them and seeing them suffer as a result?

All we hear is the promise of £1 million if the regions agree to central contracts, which is essentially a player signing for WRU RFC and being allowed to play regional rugby when Roger permits it.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Dr. Gwyn's words are now in print in the WM

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/simon-thomas-sadly-theres-no-6375541

[Chunky Norwich]

I agree 100% with Dr. Gwyn, the union want the regions gone, then they can run their game themselves without the risk of anyone else trying to get any money from it, and they will destroy everything in their way to get what they want.  We are at another 2003 moment, and yet again people are blindly trusting the union without actually thinking of themselves.  Wales is a country that is known world wide for its sheep, but sadly those sheep are the tools that are letting Roger Lewis kill off our national game from the top down.

Well said that man / spider.

[Dre280783]

Spider I understand your frustrations, but unfortunatly the Regions can't get crowds which is the life blood of the game. I was in Cardiff last saturday to watch the game, and the ammount of people who were out to watch that game whether in the stadiumn or in the pubs. You don't get that with the regions, people just dont seem interested in them.
 
You could argue that its because the top players aren't playing but even when they do the crowds dont come.
 
It doesn't help that the regions are now compeleting with two premier league football clubs.
 
I can only see this whole thing going one way and that is Union controlled clubs, its unfortunate, but I think thats what's going to happen. We will still have the same problems with clubs under preforming as that situation will only be solved when the Northern Hempshire calander structure gets sorted. And I think the SH will continure to dominate because of this.

[Casartelli]

As incompetent as the WRU are, I don't think they have a plan to kill the regions, I just suspect that there is no plan at all.

They are sitting on a rudderless ship, waiting to see where the winds of rugby commerce blow them.

The only consistent thing they do is divert millions to Barclays instead of the regions. This is another strategy they've never explained. I think a banker told Roger it was the 'business guy' thing to do and Roger believed him.

[maestegmafia]

Maes - The WRU set up the LV=, and now the regions are in competition with the WRU, nearly every time the Welsh team are playing, for the general public through the gate.  The continual price hikes at the MS, whilst no increase in funding to the regions, means that there are people who would attend international games and regional games, that are now financially only able to chose either a few international games or a fair few at the regions, again direct competition.  Even Judgement Day is a bit of a farce, it is a great idea in principle, ideal for the fans and big attndances for the regions.  But then look at the ticket prices, are the regions really getting any more out of the attendance than they would at their own venues?  Probably not, are the regions making money selling food and drinks, no.  Is the WRU getting a fair bit of cash fro the sales of drink and stuff.  Yes.

Even on the TV.  BBC Scrum V, it shows all the highlights of the Rabo Pro 12, and they discuss the regions in the HEC (although can not show highlights fair enough), but then when the internationals are on they totally ignore that the regions are still playing in the LV=, not even a split second to show the scores.  And if the Rabo is on during the AIs, 6Ns they show a try from each game the regions play, and then they show every try from Scotland V bleeding Tonga or whatever.

I have said on these boards so many times, the Union is meant to support the regions.  Even if they were in a position where they could not put any more money in, they could promote the regions.  The WRU do run a load of newsletters on the email leading up to the AIs and to the 6NS, why not just fire on off every week to say "This weekend the regions fixtures are ......Their next home games are......Buy tickets from here.....".  Or even during the AIs, they could put up on the big screen, don't forget that all you internationals stars are back on regional duty in the HEC next weekend, but they don't.  

I agree 100% with Dr. Gwyn, the union want the regions gone, then they can run their game themselves without the risk of anyone else trying to get any money from it, and they will destroy everything in their way to get what they want.  We are at another 2003 moment, and yet again people are blindly trusting the union without actually thinking of themselves.  Wales is a country that is known world wide for its sheep, but sadly those sheep are the tools that are letting Roger Lewis kill off our national game from the top down.

I won't argue your point as I agree with much of what you say but I think that the regions backers failures to operate successfully have made the decision easy for the WRU to tow the hard line.

I agree that the WRU appear to want the regions to be under their control. If they were would that not be better than our current franchised system? Do we not want a system more like what Ireland have than we currently do?

If not then please tell me why...!!

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