India in South Africa 2013

First topic message reminder :

The BCCI have picked the test squad for South Africa well in advance, so the debates can also start well in time.

--the key to India having the upper hand here is having recgnized that they had to wear of the pace bowlers and not be blown away in the first 30 overs.

--once they had done that and unfortuntely with Morkel missing......SA ran out of steam.....and when the spinners who are neither exceptional nor with any assistance in the pitch came...India collected about 100 runs in 20 overs of spin...and in the context of the match..it completely deflated SA

--Vijay, Rahane, Kohli, Pujara have all stood up.....and I alnost sense that in T2 Dhawan and Rohit will stamp their authority...although Rohit has an opportunity now in second inning also

I don't think pitch has eased so much but India starved for even draws overseas is not going to take a chance...will better part of 2 sessions if not bowled out

KP_fan, msp, shanky, Do you remember any test match in which all the wickets of opposite team were taken by fast bowlers of India. I don't remember any. Well I think this is the first one. Feeling proud of our young speed brigade.

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:KP_fan, msp, shanky, Do you remember any test match in which all the wickets of opposite team were taken by fast bowlers of India. I don't remember any. Well I think this is the first one. Feeling proud of our young speed brigade.

there are plenty of such tests...I am sure...the 1996 tour of SA...the 2003 series of NZ.....vs Aus in 1985 Kapil picked 8-fer and Binny the other two......also on the 1988-86 tour of Eng T2 and T3 might have produced some innings where our seamers only picked up all wickets

Duty281 wrote:Question is - How brave are India? When will they declare?

Despite the significant advantage they have, the answer to that question would be decided by the direction of the first hour tomorrow. If India manage to see off the new ball without too many wickets, I think they should build the lead to around 450-470 and declare an hour or so into the 2nd session. .

A draw against South Africa in South Africa is a serious achievement, and MS is a captain who invests a bit on safety, so if he has a chance he might want to get to 500 before calling his troops back in.

msp83 wrote:A draw against South Africa in South Africa is a serious achievement, and MS is a captain who invests a bit on safety, so if he has a chance he might want to get to 500 before calling his troops back in.

yeah.....given that he lost last 8 tests...and how low the expectation of his staunchest supporters is...India will not take any risks whatsoever.....and will bat on.

however do exepect new ball will produce some wickets and once were are past the top 6 the lower 5 will fold very quickly.......so not by choice but rather by deafult India will finish between 400 to more likely closer to 450 lead

msp83 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Question is - How brave are India? When will they declare?

Despite the significant advantage they have, the answer to that question would be decided by the direction of the first hour tomorrow. If India manage to see off the new ball without too many wickets, I think they should build the lead to around 450-470 and declare an hour or so into the 2nd session. .

That's exactly when I would declare.

Must admit, I backed Pujara to succeed here, because the boy is talented, and has the temperament to play well, Kohli is the one that has surprised me. I thought he was more style than substance, quite obviously been proved wrong. The day belonged to India - not even the open bar at the Suite could hide how rough the scene was (hence me only typing my thoughts now.).

That said, I can't say I'm too afraid of defeat at the moment. the pitch looked like it flattened a lot, and our side has chased 400 before, while Faf has seen played an epic of his own. We've come back from greater adversity before, and India only have three seamers on a pitch not conducive to turn.

If India do win though, Id like to give a hearty well done to a very fearless, very talented Indian team.

kingraf wrote: >

That said, I can't say I'm too afraid of defeat at the moment. the pitch looked like it flattened a lot, and our side has chased 400 before, while Faf has seen played an epic of his own. We've come back from greater adversity before, and India only have three seamers on a pitch not conducive to turn.

.

Write something original...instead of copying and pasting Duty281's old posts   

Duty281 wrote:

msp83 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Question is - How brave are India? When will they declare?

Despite the significant advantage they have, the answer to that question would be decided by the direction of the first hour tomorrow. If India manage to see off the new ball without too many wickets, I think they should build the lead to around 450-470 and declare an hour or so into the 2nd session. .

That's exactly when I would declare.

Looking at India's batting today and the way SA bowlers bowled, if the same continues then India will surely look for a safe target i.e. 450+. But no one can say what will happen tomorrow morning. Steyn and Philander are well capable of destructing any line up. But for now we are well ahead 300. If things doesn't go our way, then at least more 100 they will score taking lead past 400.

KP_fan wrote:

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:KP_fan, msp, shanky, Do you remember any test match in which all the wickets of opposite team were taken by fast bowlers of India. I don't remember any. Well I think this is the first one. Feeling proud of our young speed brigade.

there are plenty of such tests...I am sure...the 1996 tour of SA...the 2003 series of NZ.....vs Aus in 1985 Kapil picked 8-fer and Binny the other two......also on the 1988-86 tour of Eng T2 and T3 might have produced some innings where our seamers only picked up all  wickets

This makes for painful reading for an Indian supporter, but Srinath, Prasad, Johnson and Ganguly shared all 10 wickets in the South Africa first innings despite Anil Kumble playing.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63736.html

KP_fan wrote:

kingraf wrote:  >

That said, I can't say I'm too afraid of defeat at the moment. the pitch looked like it flattened a lot, and our side has chased 400 before, while Faf has seen played an epic of his own. We've come back from greater adversity before, and India only have three seamers on a pitch not conducive to turn.

.

Write something original...instead of copying and pasting Duty281's old posts   

Kingraf's got the right spirit!

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:KP_fan, msp, shanky, Do you remember any test match in which all the wickets of opposite team were taken by fast bowlers of India. I don't remember any. Well I think this is the first one. Feeling proud of our young speed brigade.

there are plenty of such tests...I am sure...the 1996 tour of SA...the 2003 series of NZ.....vs Aus in 1985 Kapil picked 8-fer and Binny the other two......also on the 1988-86 tour of Eng T2 and T3 might have produced some innings where our seamers only picked up all  wickets

This makes for painful reading for an Indian supporter, but Srinath, Prasad, Johnson and Ganguly shared all 10 wickets in the South Africa first innings despite Anil Kumble playing.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63736.html

I meant these moments can be counted on fingers.

kingraf wrote:Must admit, I backed Pujara to succeed here, because the boy is talented, and has the temperament to play well, Kohli is the one that has surprised me. I thought he was more style than substance, quite obviously been proved wrong. The day belonged to India - not even the open bar at the Suite could hide how rough the scene was (hence me only typing my thoughts now.).

That said, I can't say I'm too afraid of defeat at the moment. the pitch looked like it flattened a lot, and our side has chased 400 before, while Faf has seen played an epic of his own. We've come back from greater adversity before, and India only have three seamers on a pitch not conducive to turn.

If India do win though, Id like to give a hearty well done to a very fearless, very talented Indian team.

Kohli is a very determined batsman, he has a decent technique, a fabulous temperament and some recent good form. Very heartening to see him performing like this.

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:KP_fan, msp, shanky, Do you remember any test match in which all the wickets of opposite team were taken by fast bowlers of India. I don't remember any. Well I think this is the first one. Feeling proud of our young speed brigade.

there are plenty of such tests...I am sure...the 1996 tour of SA...the 2003 series of NZ.....vs Aus in 1985 Kapil picked 8-fer and Binny the other two......also on the 1988-86 tour of Eng T2 and T3 might have produced some innings where our seamers only picked up all  wickets

This makes for painful reading for an Indian supporter, but Srinath, Prasad, Johnson and Ganguly shared all 10 wickets in the South Africa first innings despite Anil Kumble playing.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63736.html

I meant these moments can be counted on fingers.

Yeah there would be a few of those but not many. This was the first that came to mind.

KP_Fan - I like Doody, but my posts are far from his defiant stands in the face of defeat. England could be 120/7 chasing 699 on day 3 and Doody could find two weather bureaus forecasting rain, and an obscure ton Anderson once scored in a school game to prove England can still win.

I, other hand am hopeful for two reasons
1) I'm a lifelong season ticket-holder at the Wanderers, and I'm yet to see us win a test there (I accept that won't happen).
2004/05 - lost to England
2005/06 - lost to Australia
2006/07 - lost to India
2008/09 - lost to Australia
2009/10 - beat England (but I was struck with chased chicken pox)
2011/12 - lost to Australia
2013 - beat Pakistan, but I only watched day one, so it doesn't count.

It's semi depressing that our record at our home of cricket is so depressing! I'd like to see us at least avoid defeat.

The other reason for my optimism, is that we have literally come back from worse.
Faf's 100 at Adelaide,
recovering from 96 all out (and a 190 odd deficit) to win in three days vs Australia.
Graeme Smiths 154 in 2008, vs
England when no one could see what Flintoff was bowling,
JP's 166 at Melbourne to turn around a sure defeat
Chasing 414 at Perth 2008
Kallis coming back from a side strain for a series saving second innings ton vs India in 2011.
We won't give it away, it will have to be pried from us!

Never give in King.

Even if you're being asked to chase a world record score, something that no team would have achieved in over 120 years of Test Cricket, you should still believe.

The South Africans certainly won't give up, They really don't do that, India will have to really earn a favorable outcome.

Could be worse of course - could be facing Sharkeisha.

So day 3, moving day...

India threw kitchen sink and for good measure the bathtub as well at the Proteas and have seemingly broken and battered the Proteas to the point of no return...

Pujara, this guy is a freak. He's now gone passed 2000 first class runs for 2013 @ 102. In a little bit of form then...  

Kohli, TBH, I thought he was exposed in the ODIs. All mouth no trousers. But he's been pretty awesome thus far. I never thought I'd see an Indian score a hundred in each innings in South Africa but Kohli's 30 odd away from a career defining moment.

It was a shame Big Morne got an unfortunate injury, but that's cricket. We have to suck it up.

Imran Tahir is a disgrace. Total pie chucker. I hope I never see him in Proteas colours again.

I think this pitch is better suited to hit the deck bowlers.

Morkel was pretty much unplayable. Ishant and Khan hit the deck hard. Whereas Steyn and Philander kiss the deck.

I hope in Durban we pick Ryan McLaren and not Rory Kleinveldt.

On Imran Tahir:

Those are are too critical of him....bear in mind he is no Warne.
He is essentially a 4th inning bowler who on a helpful D4 an D5 pitch can be very tough to handle.

This pitch has nothing for the spinners...he has a shoulder / rotor cuff issue i understand....and Indians are the best batsmen against spin.

we have seen even the likes of Swann struggle as much on unfriendly pitches recently....

and Tahir is not a containing bowler....as a leggie if you have him ...expect him to go for runs and try and pick wickets......maybe not the best selection given the pitch and opponent...but don't fault him for being picked.
Against the Indians on unhelpful pitches.......a SLA is probably a better pick

The pitch might "appear" to have flattened...but I believe that the true devils in this pitch will start showing again once(if) these two are out....only the quality of these two batters is making it looking easy.

balls are kicking off a length, squatting occasionally and jagging a lot off the seam especially when hitting the cracks.

Spinner Ashwin might also be able to make merry tomorrow.

with a cushion of 450 as it appears likely and 135 overs to defend.....SA will have a very hard time........it's not impossible to save the game still...but will test every ounce of their resolve and  character as the No.1 side in the world.

As dismissals go, that must be a fairly encouraging one for India. Sharma bowled by Kallis to one that's jagged back and kept very low. Definitely some demons in this pitch, shows how well Pujara and Kohli have batted.

The pitch might "appear" to have flattened...but I believe that the true devils in this pitch will start showing again once(if) these two are out....only the quality of these two batters is making it looking easy.

3 wickets gone since I wrote the above.....and all the devils in the pitch have surface.....Kohli got to one from Duminy that bounced a bit...and Rohit got an unplayable squatter.

Kohli may not come so close to getting a hundred in each inning in his career...leave aside in an overseas test in such bowling friendly conditions in SA

well played...I am not statistical or records conscious.......but I so wanted him to get this hundred today

Charge halted.

Still, if India get the lead to 450 and above, they should be feeling perfectly comfortable.

Duty281 wrote:Charge halted.

Still, if India get the lead to 450 and above, they should be feeling perfectly comfortable.

in 4th inning it's barely a 250 run pitch

My internet connection was acting up so had to work on it nd missed most of the first session. India lost their top 6, and now are 361-6. The last 4 wickets have to push the total up to 450 somehow, there are more signs of life in the pitch, and Ashwin too will have a role to play with the ball by the look of things.

Another 150+ score for Cheteshwar Pujara. 4 of his 6 test hundreds so far have been above 150.
A bit unfortunate for Virat Kohli to have missed out on twin tons in the match, but that doesn't take anything away from his performance, absolutely fabulous from Virat.
Rohit Sharma again failed to make an impact, but to be fair, there was not a lot he could have done about the ball that got him. Ajinkya Rahane also missing out, needs better application from Dhawan, Sharma and Rahane too.

The lead has gone pass the 400 mark. India 369-6, leading by 405.

7 down.

Time to give the bat some fresh air and plunder a quick 20-30 more.

Madcap time, Zaheer is swinging at everything, and some wild running and a missed run-out!. India 376-7.

dhoni can whack one over for 20 odd with 3 SIXES...he is capable and eyeing the spinner

414 run lead up.

 

The ball is keeping low at times. The South African batsmen won't enjoy seeing that a lot.

Dhoni has hold out in the deep, but he's not declaring the innings. India 384-8, Ishant joins Zaheer.

India 396-8 as Dale Steyn is coming back on.

Pressure is half the adversity in internatinal cricket...

Pressure creates strange chokign effect

and  as a corollary...lack of Pressure create the free-flowing-enjoyment as we see from zaheer and ishant now

The 400 up for India, Dhoni is in no mood to put on his wicketkeeping pads yet though!.

Imran Tahir gets a wicket!!. Ishant gone LBW.

Wow, Zaheer launches Steyn for 6!.

Lead gone pass 450 mark as well and still MSD is unmoved. Don't think he'll declare before they are bowled out.

India are bowled out for 421 as Imran Tahir bowls Mohammed Shami.
South Africa need 458 to win the game in around 137 overs.

Omg steyn is pants, past it, just a medium dobbler even the tailenders have him...

Plenty of time to win the match , no ? Why declare ...if SA could bat long enough to draw , they could make the runs...
Dhoni is correct , in my view.

Olly wrote:Omg steyn is pants, past it, just a medium dobbler even the tailenders have him...

1/165 in this Test Olly.

Not fit to even be on the same pitch as Jade Dernbach!

In all seriousness though, India have got enough here to defend. Will take 2 magical innings, and a very decent support cast to pull the Champions out of the mire.

I think the saffers will save this match tbh...

India should be fine. South Africa all out for 280-320.

Olly wrote:I think the saffers will save this match tbh...

And I have backed my mouth with a nice little bet on a double chance South Africa to win/draw result

This is how we like it, in the trenches,no chance of rain, dodgy wicket. The script is written for the greatest fourth innings batsman of them all: Step forward Graeme Smith.

Smith , Amla , Kallis ...if any team can bat it out from here these days , it is SA.

But I reckon India might just about win this.