AP Round 9

Fri 29th Nov 13 19:45 PR Gloucester Rugby (10) v Leicester Tigers (6) @ Kingsholm
Sat 30th Nov 13 15:00 PR London Irish (11) v London Wasps (8) @ Madejski Stadium
Sat 30th Nov 13 15:00 PR Saracens (1) v Sale Sharks (7) @ Allianz Park
Sat 30th Nov 13 15:00 PR Worcester Warriors (12) v Northampton Saints (2) @ Sixways
Sat 30th Nov 13 15:15 PR Bath Rugby (3) v Exeter Chiefs (5) @ Recreation Ground
Sun 1st Dec 13 14:30 PR Newcastle Falcons (9) v Harlequins (4) @ Kingston Park

This is the start of a huge series of fixtures for us which will tell us a lot about where we are at. Our next 4 AP games are Wasps (h), Sale (a), Gloucester (h), Worcester (h). We must win 3 of them minimum, starting this weekend vs. Wasps.

Bad news is that David Paice is out for 2 months with a broken arm, and sounds as if Marland Yarde may be missing for a similar period with a thigh injury. As good as Yarde is, we can cover his loss, but we only have 2 fit hookers, Mayhew and Stevens, so if we lose one of them we are royally screwed.

My predictions for this week are;-

Gloucester
Irish
Saracens
Saints
Bath
Falcons

Glaws:
Rob Cook; Shane Monahan, Henry Trinder, Billy Twelvetrees, Jonny May; Freddie Burns, Dan Robson; Nick Wood, Darren Dawidiuk, Shaun Knight; Lua Lokotui, James Hudson; Tom Savage (capt), Matt Kvesic, Ben Morgan

Replacements:

Huia Edmonds, Yann Thomas, Rupert Harden, Elliott Stooke, Matt Cox, Jimmy Cowan, Mike Tindall, Martyn Thomas

Tigers:
15 Scott Hamilton
14 Blaine Scully
13 Adam Thompstone
12 Dan Bowden
11 Miles Benjamin
10 Toby Flood (c)
9 Ben Youngs
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Tom Youngs
3 Dan Cole
4 Louis Deacon
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Jamie Gibson
7 Julian Salvi
8 Thomas Waldrom

Replacements
16 Neil Briggs
17 Boris Stankovich
18 Fraser Balmain
19 Sebastian De Chaves
20 Jordan Crane
21 Sam Harrison
22 Owen Williams
23 Javiah Pohe

Form very much suggests a Tigers win, but Glaws have a habit of turning up under the Kingsholm lights, especially against Tigers. Somewhat of a broken record with my prediction, but this could be the game to kick start our season with a less than 7 point win...

Other than that I'm going for Irish, Sarries, Saints, Barf & Quins

Looking at that, I would fear for your front 5 HKC. Everywhere else you can match them, you just need to hope and pray you can get parity up front.

Tigers will try to scrum them off the park and just play for territory, like they did v irish at the weekend. glos will try to keep the ball moving and use their pace in the backs. should be a good game. think glos might nick it.

i fancy irish to beat wasps.
saints to beat worcester
sarries to beat sale
bath to beat exeter
newcastle v quins is close to call. falcons are good at home but quins are in decent form.

Did you see we've recruited Phil Keith-Roach as scrum coach Nick? He could make a massive difference for us.

If Quins have any ambition to be involved in the business end of the AP this year, Falcons away is a must win.

It's never an easy game, especially given that Deano knows the Quins squad better than any other opposing coach, but I'd expect us to travel with a strong squad.

It's likely to be Brown, Williams, Hopper, Casson, Monye, Evans, Care; Marler, Ward, Collier, Robson, Easter, Wallace, Robshaw, Guest. The weak spots are inexperienced front rows on the bench, Ward's throwing and a lack of shove in the second row, but Evans was in good form last week, Robshaw should be back and we have a settled centre pairing for once.

Our backline is going to have to be up for it against that Glaws team. We're well out matched in terms of pace and only one centre with any experience in the position will limit us in attack. We've got to win the breakdown battle and look to our front five to turn the screw. Think the Shed might give Glaws the edge in this one sadly.

yeh saw that earlier Pete. good news. hopefully we will see an improvement.

Quins need to win well against Falcons. A chance for us to show we're on the right track now.

We need to aim for 5 again, away or not away

Odds stacked against an Exe win for this one, but with Bath the only team we've not yet beaten in the prem, I have a funny feeling about this one

Ozzy3213 wrote:Did you see we've recruited Phil Keith-Roach as scrum coach Nick?  He could make a massive difference for us.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Our backline is going to have to be up for it against that Glaws team. We're well out matched in terms of pace and only one centre with any experience in the position will limit us in attack. We've got to win the breakdown battle and look to our front five to turn the screw. Think the Shed might give Glaws the edge in this one sadly.

Totally agree with you both. There is no doubt that Leicester's front 5 will have a rather large edge on us. Added in that Greg Garner is the ref and when he refereed our friendly against Scarlets he was somewhat calamatous with his scrum interpretation I'm not holding out much hope of winning any scrums! It appears from our selection we're aiming to target the lineout with the selection of Lokatui and Hudson, but I'd have far rather preferred to see James and Stooke. Nevertheless in the cracking game last year we were completely under the cosh at the scrum and went down to 13 men (sounds familiar) and yet pulled off a cracking win - that is the hope I am clinging to, but realistically our backs will need to be razor sharp to capitalise on what little ball they may get, especially on the front foot; the starting pack pretty much to a man has underperformed this year so we will also need some big performances from the likes of Wood, Knight, Savage and Morgan tonight...

It should be a cracker anyway, enjoy the game  

yappysnap wrote:Quins need to win well against Falcons. A chance for us to show we're on the right track now.

I think both teams will be earmarking this one Yappy.

We've not been great recently and a home game against the Quins to get the fans going...we'll be looking for a BIG performance. It wont be pretty though i can guarentee that, i think that we forget that we have a set of backs at times.

HKC, we're down to Dan "don't hurt me" Bowden and Adam Thompstone (pretty sure he's never played centre for us and been a while since he did for LI). If Twelvetrees and Trinder can't engineer a gap there then they shouldn't be in England reckoning. If all goes to pot you can bring on a RWC winner and we have England's 19 years old, never played an AP game, answer to Basteraud. We simply can't let the battle reach the midfield. Lineout should be interesting as in Deacon, Kitchener and Gibson we certainly have some tall options, Salvi is handy at the tail as.well.

Gloucester really need to avoid the cards of last week, if they do that and remain patient they can win.

Gloucester by 1
Irish by 7
Sale by 4 ( just got a feeling)
Saints by 18
Bath by 3
Quins by 10

Looking forward to see Gloucester vs Leicester on BT. Good odds on Leicester's prolific try scorer, Penalty try getting another..... 

Leicester will deservedly start favourites but my advice when taking on Leicester is generally the same - target their back three. Leicester have an excellent team but I feel that their back three, certainly without Tait and no Alesana Tuilagi anymore is one of their weak spots.



stnick88 not sure that Newcastle have the firepower to beat Quins. If Newcastle are to challenge some of the tougher sides they'll need to score more tries than 3 in 8 games.

Exeter are a difficult side to gauge. Competed well with Saracens last week but Bath will look to exploit vulnerabilities at scrum time.

Steenson had a poor game vs Sarries, will need to make amends if Exeter are going to win.

agree beshocked, it will be down to whether falcons can kick well and drag quins in to a battle upfront. if they can do, they have a chance. but if quins keep the ball moving and get their offloading game going they will win.

3 tries in 8 games is shocking didnt realise it was that low! yet they still have 3 wins!

Quins will need a huge game from the pack. We look to have turned the season around but our pack is still lightweight and will need to counter this with huge intensity

stnick88 yes it is quite surprising - only 69 points for them too. That's only slightly over an average of 8 points per match. Defensively Newcastle have conceded less points than Wasps,London Irish,Gloucester and Worcester. It's getting points on the scoreboard that Newcastle have struggled at.


Chequeredjersey I don't think your pack is lightweight when you compare it to most other teams.

Top 4 packs at the moment in my opinion are Saints,Sarries,Bath and Leicester. I wouldn't say Quins are too far off them if they get their absent players back and can maintain intensity as you say. E.g. Quins had a strong 40 mins vs Sarries but failed to maintain it. You beat Leicester too.

Our problem is definately scoring points. Only 69 in the league!!!! Lowest by a country mile! But then our game has been utterly predictable. I hope our wingers have a good stock of long johns ready for the cold days as they'll be stood twiddling their thumbs as the forwards just rumble about with the ball.

The plus side though is out defence is usually very good. We are generally difficult to break down....

Geordiefalcon

Really? Difficult to break down? 19 tries conceded - 3rd worst. Sorry. You did well to stop Saints scoring too many tries (ironically something my own team couldn't do) but it's not exactly been plain sailing.

On the other hand 3 wins and 9th in the table is not at all bad for a side who've just come back up. You just need to find some firepower.

There is just one change to the side that beat Gloucester in Round 8 as Sam Smith starts on the left wing in place of Ugo Monye who picked up a knock during last week’s game.

Smith will partner Mike Brown and Tom Williams in the back three as the centre and half-back pairings remain the same.

In the forwards, Nick Easter continues as captain behind an unchanged front row, with George Robson, Joe Trayfoot, Luke Wallace and Tom Guest completing the forwards.

Openside flanker Chris Robshaw has been given a second rest week following the Autumn International Test series.

Among the replacements, Paul Doran Jones and Ollie Lindsay-Hague return from injury, while James Chisholm will look to make his first Premiership appearance for the Club.

Harlequins Team to play Newcastle Falcons:

15. Mike Brown
14. Tom Williams
13. Matt Hopper
12. Tom Casson
11. Sam Smith
10. Nick Evans
9. Danny Care

1. Joe Marler
2. Dave Ward
3. Will Collier
4. Nick Easter (c)
5. George Robson
6. Joe Trayfoot
7. Luke Wallace
8. Tom Guest

16. Harry Allen
17. Mark Lambert
18. Paul Doran Jones
19. Charlie Matthews
20. James Chisholm
21. Sam Stuart
22. Ben Botica
23. Ollie Lindsay-Hague

Good side, that Bathite, looking forward to Quins playing you chaps soon

Eastmond still not back in the fold though?

Saracens team to face Sale Sharks;
15; Alex Goode; 14. Jack Wilson, 13. Chris Wyles, 12. Owen Farrell, 11. David Stretttle, 10. Charlie Hodgson, 9. Neil de Kock; 1. Richard Barrington, 2. Schalk Brits, 3. Matt Stevens, 4. Steve Borthwick ©, 5. George Kruis, 6. Jackson Wray, 7. Will Fraser, 8. Ernst Joubert.
Replacements;
16. Jamie George, 17. Jared Saunders, 18. James Johnston, 19. Eoin Sheriff, 20. Kelly Brown, 21. Richard Wigglesworth, 22. Duncan Taylor, 23. Marcel Bosch.

Frustated with those centre selections.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Eastmond still not back in the fold though?

played monday night i think, but even if hadn't been a naughty boy, it would be very harsh on Devoto, as he's been great at 12 for the last 2 games. Based on the fact that he's on the bench points to him being on the naughty step still.

Never mind, Beshocked, I suspect you'll see Bosch start at 13 soon, and Barritt can't be far off returning, right?

beshocked wrote:Saracens team to face Sale Sharks;
15; Alex Goode; 14. Jack Wilson, 13. Chris Wyles, 12. Owen Farrell, 11. David Stretttle, 10. Charlie Hodgson, 9. Neil de Kock; 1. Richard Barrington, 2. Schalk Brits, 3. Matt Stevens, 4. Steve Borthwick ©, 5. George Kruis, 6. Jackson Wray, 7. Will Fraser, 8. Ernst Joubert.
Replacements;
16. Jamie George, 17. Jared Saunders, 18. James Johnston, 19. Eoin Sheriff, 20. Kelly Brown, 21. Richard Wigglesworth, 22. Duncan Taylor, 23. Marcel Bosch.

Frustated with those centre selections.

Yeah, i agree! Taylor and Bosch are two awesome little players. Should have too much for Sale though, so a chance to rest/rotate.

I hate that Sarries are resting Brown, Burger and Vunipola and still have an awesome backrow. Hope Fraser goes well, and Kruis too

I can only hope chequeredjersey but I am not optimistic of Sarries sorting out the centre conundrum. It's so important to an attacking team yet something that so many teams fail to sort out.

Bosch is one of the best 13s in the world for me, outside the solid General Barritt I think Sarries' backline could become a gamebreaker.

Beshocked, yes our defence is generally good. I would suggest most tries against has come in only a few games where we've been tanked.

Besides a team cant just defend for 80 mins. And without anyform of attack, thats what we're doing - we're going to concede.

We're doing ok in 9th...but if we had an attack things would be looking rosier..

Newcastle team for Quins:

Newcastle Falcons: 15 Alex Tait, 14 Noah Cato, 13 Danny Barnes, 12 Adam Powell, 11 Ryan Shortland, 10 Phil Godman, 9 Mike Blair, 1 Rob Vickers, 2 Scott Lawson, 3 Kieran Brookes, 4 Carlo del Fava, 5 Fraser McKenzie, 6 Richard Mayhew, 7 Will Welch (c), 8 Ally Hogg

Replacements: 16 George McGuigan, 17 Grant Shiells, 18 Scott Wilson, 19 Sean Tomes, 20 Chris York, 21 Warren Fury, 22 Rory Clegg, 23 James Fitzpatrick

Irish Side

1 Yapp
2 Stevens
3 Hala'vatu
4 Gough
5 Skivington
6 Sinclair
7 Cowan
8 Hala'ufia
9 O'Leary
10 Geraghty
11 Ojo
12 Sheridan
13 Mulchrone
14 Lewington
15 O'Connor

16 Parr
17 Mayhew
18 Hagan
19 Rouse
20 Treviranus
21 Allinson
22 Dorrian
23 Armitage

Reasonably confident of a home win. Wasps can be a dangerous side with Wade back, but if we get parity up front I fancy our backs to have enough. JOC to score his first try. Need to attack Hayter in the 12 channel his defence has been poor this season.

Odd Quins side, where's Kennedy? Perhaps he's still rusty but then PDJ was apparently pretty bad on Monday as well. And where's Molenaar? It's no surprise that our backline has looked confiest with him adding some ballast in there. Casson/Hopper is going down the light weight road again.

Still we should have enough to see off Falcons. And good to see some pace on the wing and OLH make his comeback.

Kennedy is only just back from surgery, he hasn't played much rugby at all in ages and we can just about cover lock unlike prop. Why risk ruining his knee and forcing him out of the season by rushing him back before we need to?

No surprises for Irish, unchanged from last week apart from injuries.

Losing Paice and Yarde on long term injury isn't going to help Irish though - I just hope the other guys can do a good job in their absence …

Arscott
Nowell
Dollman
Shoemark
Jess
Steeno
Lewis
Moon
Yeandle
Tui
Mumm
Welsh
TJ
White
Ewers

Whitehead
SDturge
Brown
Armand
Horstman
Slade
Thomas
Whiiten



Hopefully enough to take Barf. Ben Moon is rewarded with promotion from the bench for a very decent patch of form recently, while Luke Arscott returns to the 15 jersey now that he is fully fit and Shoey drops in at 12, with Phil Dollman moving to outside centre, Whitts to the bench, and Sam Hill gets a break (he's had some excellent games for us - Glaws, and some not so excellent ones - Sarries). Unless we get parity with the Bath backrow tho, it could be a long afternoon

No chance, come on you Bath!

Saints Team to face the Warriors

15 Glenn DICKSON
14 Ken PISI
13 Dom WALDOUCK
12 Luther BURRELL
11 Tom COLLINS
10 Stephen MYLER
9 Lee DICKSON
1 Alex WALLER
2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
3 Salesi MA’AFU
4 Samu MANOA
5 Christian DAY
6 Calum CLARK
7 Tom WOOD
8 Sam DICKINSON

Replacements
16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Ethan WALLER
18 Tom MERCEY
19 Courtney LAWES
20 Phil DOWSON
21 Alex DAY
22 Vasily ARTEMYEV
23 Tom STEPHENSON

Strong looking pack (and benched forwards) with the return of Hartley & Wood after the AI's & missing last week. Lawes drops to the bench for a well deserved rest, Dowson unlucky not to start but has played a lot this season.

Back line looking pretty stretched with Foden, Wilson, Elliott, North, Fotuali'i & G. Pisi all missing for a variety of reasons. Dickson gets first AP start although out of position as 3rd choice full back. Hopefully having first choice starters at 9, 10 & 12 along with the Warriors poor form will be enough but have a bad feeling about this one, Dean Ryan's men have to start winning now to stand any chance whatsoever to stay up. Although I hope I'm wrong it could be the shock of the round.

I'd sum up that half as oh FFS. Tigers dominant up front and causing Glaws problems. Early Glaws pressure weathered comfortably. Two intercepts leading to tries. Just not necessary, especially the second one. Don't throw the ball away in the opposition 22! Burns reads the first one nicely mind.

B91212 wrote:Saints Team to face the Warriors

15 Glenn DICKSON
14 Ken PISI
13 Dom WALDOUCK
12 Luther BURRELL
11 Tom COLLINS
10 Stephen MYLER
9 Lee DICKSON
1 Alex WALLER
2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
3 Salesi MA’AFU
4 Samu MANOA
5 Christian DAY
6 Calum CLARK
7 Tom WOOD
8 Sam DICKINSON

Replacements
16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Ethan WALLER
18 Tom MERCEY
19 Courtney LAWES
20 Phil DOWSON
21 Alex DAY
22 Vasily ARTEMYEV
23 Tom STEPHENSON

Strong looking pack (and benched forwards) with the return of Hartley & Wood after the AI's & missing last week. Lawes drops to the bench for a well deserved rest, Dowson unlucky not to start but has played a lot this season.

Back line looking pretty stretched with Foden, Wilson, Elliott, North, Fotuali'i & G. Pisi all missing for a variety of reasons. Dickson gets first AP start although out of position as 3rd choice full back. Hopefully having first choice starters at 9, 10 & 12 along with the Warriors poor form will be enough but have a bad feeling about this one, Dean Ryan's men have to start winning now to stand any chance whatsoever to stay up. Although I hope I'm wrong it could be the shock of the round.

Hiya Mate!  How are things in the great north woods?
I agree. I'd expect Saints to go pretty well against Worcester.  Warriors are in full-on panic mode with the challenge of trying to avoid relegation from the worst possible start.  Saints are finally fortunate to have a squad where some key players get a rest whilst most of the heavy hitters still are playing.  Waldouck is a bit of a worry for me at 13 and Dickson is a bit of an unknown at fullback.  Will be good to see that distant relative of the Royal family, Artemyev, get some game time.  Tom Collins, Saints 19 year old wing, continues to get game time. That is good and will build depth.  Hopefully a good solid win.

Leicester surely must win this. Dominating the set piece and winning the breakdown battle. Gloucester have also missed 4 kicks at goal.

Jeez, currently at halftime of a replay of Gloucester-Leicester. Burns looks pretty poor. Flood is better by comparison, but not massively so. To be fair, a little hard to judge as this match is very sloppy, but I think both players need to show a lot more. Maybe this is an example why Lancaster stays with Farrell?

Maybe this is an example why Lancaster stays with Farrell?

I think your right Doc, he probably shows a bit more consistency and solidity which the coaches want at the international level.

If that's how Burns and Flood were performing in England training sessions, you can see why Farrell started the AIs.

What a try by Welch