Your Team of the Year (No IRB shortlist)

First topic message reminder :

Lets be honest a lot of the people on the shortlist this year were unworthy of the list  because of lack of games time or even knowledge e.g. Jamie Roberts, Debaty, Mccaw, Carter.

Pick a team from both international and club sides, pick more on consistency than current form (team of the year). Just a fun way to sum up the year.

1. Marcos Ayerza - The core of Leicester and the most dominant loosehead scrummager at the moment. Corbiseairo was awesome for the lions but is always injured, same with Gethin and Domingo as well. But Ayerza does deserve a say I think
2. Bismark Du Plesis - Strong, quick, great at the break down and lets be honest just a tank
3. Adam Jones -  one of the best we wouldn't be Six Nations Champions or winners of the Lions series without him
4. Alyn Wyn Jones - Great player and always consistent for club and country, really stood up as Captain for the last Lions test
5. Brodie Retalick -  really has been outstanding for the All Blacks a very similar player to Alyn Wyn. Been consistent all year for the All Blacks
6. Willem Alberts -  isn't praised enough in my eyes, he i s brick wall in defense, always get over the gain line and has a great work rate for a man of his size
7. Michael Hooper -  Pocock hasn't played, Dusatoiur hasn't stood out in a weak French team, Mccaw hasn't played that much, Warburton not consistent enough. all the big known 7's in world rugby have been outstanding this year, the worst decision ever to drop him form that last ions test (for an Aussie supporter anyway  )
8. Kieran Read -  No other option in my eyes, i haven never really thought much of him until this year. A lot of other great 8's such as Picomoles and Parrise haven't been at their best either. Not IRB player of the year for no reason.

9. Fourie Du Preez -  no 9 has really stood out to me throughout the while year, pick Du Preez because he has been the most effective for his team when he played.
10. Aaron Cruden - I would put him ahead of Carter now, has been the most consistent 10 though the year and has used Ma Nonu really well.
11. Geore North -  Awesome for the Lions, Six Nations and when he actually gets his hands on the ball in a welsh jersey (can take a few games) he is lethal.
12. Jean De Villiers - he has been one of the best this year with Read and Halfpenny, i really think he can lead his current team of saffers to a great future. Greta captain and great all round player. Captain of the year.
13. Johnathan Davies/ Conrad Smith - I really couldn't choose, no other 13 has stood out as much as these two and both played about as much game time an another.
14. Julian Savea - a machine lets be honset, i don't see how the New Zealanders keep breeding these great wingers. Best Finisher in the world atm i think.
15. Leigh Halfpenny - Six Nations player of the tournament, Lions man of the series, just lost out to player of the year. He has been our best player by a county mile. The best thing for us is that it was only his second year as a fullback. Only better thing can come form him now.

16. Moore, 17. Tony Woodcock, 18. Juan Figallo, 19. Eben Etzabeth, 20. Chris Robshaw, 21. Johnny Sexton, 22. Ben Smith,23. Israel Folou

Imagine a Barbarians team like that, it would be lethal

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:6. SOB. For his breakdown work above all. Think there are ball carriers but when he is in the zone like he was against NZ then he is invaluable for getting your side possession. SA back rowers would probably do more with the ball but this guy

 
Some would have regarded SOB as a ball-carrying one trick pony not long ago and indeed there is a comment on here saying his breakdown work is not yet of the standard of Hooper or Pocock but I guess that shows how he has really rounded his game lately.

Quins

He was brilliant in the 6 nations for me, bar that one game that is illegal to talk about.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Could those selecting J Davies or giving him an honourable mention pls explain how a lad that could barely pass at the start of the 6Ns finds his way into TotY?  He is a good player, and did well with the Lions (not great), but really?

That's a ridiculous statement to make, the lad was brought up as a youth on the Regan King school of distribution, and I doubt if there is a more effective passer of the ball than King in the game, Davies passing might not be the strongest part of his game but nevertheless its better than most. He was the best centre in the 2012 6Ns and no doubt about was a country mile ahead of anyone during the 2013 6Ns, and certainly ahead of any centre on the Lions tour. His Wales stats are good 9 tries in 36 matches, defensively very strong and offensively deceptively quick and wonderful balance.

You could see how good a centre he was against SA, utterly destroyed the SA defence with his two passes and two runs, Wales were a totally different team against SA for the first twelve minutes with Foxy running the game, and in those twelve minutes his 40 metres with ball in hand almost created two tries and was more than any of the other centres combined metres made during the entire match..... Fourie 0, de Villiers 26, and Scott Williams 7. In fact in the entire match no Welsh player run more than Davies did in just twelve minutes, only Habana run more with ball in hand 72 metres in 80 minutes.

The games I have seen him live against us in Edinburgh at club or international level (and that's quite a few now) he has been quite superb.

flyhalffactory wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Could those selecting J Davies or giving him an honourable mention pls explain how a lad that could barely pass at the start of the 6Ns finds his way into TotY?  He is a good player, and did well with the Lions (not great), but really?

That's a ridiculous statement to make, the lad was brought up as a youth on the Regan King school of distribution, and I doubt if there is a more effective passer of the ball than King in the game, Davies passing might not be the strongest part of his game but nevertheless its better than most. He was the best centre in the 2012 6Ns and no doubt about was a country mile ahead of anyone during the 2013 6Ns, and certainly ahead of any centre on the Lions tour. His Wales stats are good 9 tries in 36 matches, defensively very strong and offensively deceptively quick and wonderful balance.

You could see how good a centre he was against SA, utterly destroyed the SA defence with his two passes and two runs, Wales were a totally different team against SA for the first twelve minutes with Foxy running the game, and in those twelve minutes his 40 metres with ball in hand almost created two tries and was more than any of the other centres combined metres made during the entire match..... Fourie 0, de Villiers 26, and Scott Williams 7. In fact in the entire match no Welsh player run more than Davies did in just twelve minutes, only Habana run more with ball in hand 72 metres in 80 minutes.

The games I have seen him live against us in Edinburgh at club or international level (and that's quite a few now) he has been quite superb.

Lets hang on a second here , uttely destroyed the SA defence? Really now. His first break was from a sloppy pass which bounced and the defensive line rushed up leading to a dogleg which JD2 flew into brilliantly . His second break was from a switch play which had Jaque Fourie covering the outside man and too slow to catch JD2 who flew in on the inside . Both good breaks but to suggest he destroyed the SA defence is a bit much .

How about a national team made up of the weakest players who played for your nation this year.

NZ.


1 Jeff Toomaga-Allen
2 Dane Coles
3 Ben Afeaki
4 Jeremy Thrush
5 Dominic Bird
6 Steven Luatua
7 Matt Todd
8 Victor Vito
9 Tawera Kerr-Barlow
10 Tom Taylor
11 Charles Piutau
12 Colin Slade
13 Francis Saili
14 Frank Halai
15 Bauden Barrett

Not a 100% sure about a couple of the positions (e.g. whether Piatau played left wing. I think a fair few of these boys will go on to bigger things.

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Could those selecting J Davies or giving him an honourable mention pls explain how a lad that could barely pass at the start of the 6Ns finds his way into TotY?  He is a good player, and did well with the Lions (not great), but really?

That's a ridiculous statement to make, the lad was brought up as a youth on the Regan King school of distribution, and I doubt if there is a more effective passer of the ball than King in the game, Davies passing might not be the strongest part of his game but nevertheless its better than most. He was the best centre in the 2012 6Ns and no doubt about was a country mile ahead of anyone during the 2013 6Ns, and certainly ahead of any centre on the Lions tour. His Wales stats are good 9 tries in 36 matches, defensively very strong and offensively deceptively quick and wonderful balance.

You could see how good a centre he was against SA, utterly destroyed the SA defence with his two passes and two runs, Wales were a totally different team against SA for the first twelve minutes with Foxy running the game, and in those twelve minutes his 40 metres with ball in hand almost created two tries and was more than any of the other centres combined metres made during the entire match..... Fourie 0, de Villiers 26, and Scott Williams 7. In fact in the entire match no Welsh player run more than Davies did in just twelve minutes, only Habana run more with ball in hand 72 metres in 80 minutes.

The games I have seen him live against us in Edinburgh at club or international level (and that's quite a few now) he has been quite superb.

Lets hang on a second here , uttely destroyed the SA defence? Really now. His first break was from a sloppy pass which bounced and the defensive line rushed up leading to a dogleg which JD2 flew into brilliantly . His second break was from a switch play which had Jaque Fourie covering the outside man and too slow to catch JD2 who flew in on the inside . Both good breaks but to suggest he destroyed the SA defence is a bit much .

Are you serious?

0.35: he went through SEVEN defenders like a hot knife through butter and still managed to off-load and the resulting movement was a pen to Wales
6.25: superb positioning not a dogleg at all, he delayed coming into the line and sliced through 12 and 13 like they weren't there and then went onto to take three more defenders out before the offload and the resulting movement was a pen to Wales.
10.00: something different was a lovely grubber that was weighted perfect and but for the bounce going SAs way could have been close to a try opportunity.
12.30: injured attempting the try saving tackle.

12 minutes: 40 metres. 2 penalties as a direct result of his breaks. 1 grubber kick which on another day could have bounced Wales way.

Destroyed might be too harsh an assessment in your view, but I feel its appropriate at that stage in the match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz_dQAl0ABU

blackcanelion - A good and potentially brutal/controversy stirring idea!

1.Mullan
2.Paice - err yeah
3.Thomas
4.Attwood
5.Parling - Lawes and Launchberry the others used which is nice continuity and strength in one position
6.Lawes - Played at 6 vs France but really isn't a blindside
7.Kvesic
8.Wood - As a number 8 please never again

9.Wigglesworth
10.Myler

11.Strettle - Played on the Arg tour and didn't exactly shine
12.Flood - When subbed on at centre for no reason
13.Tomkins
14.Ashton
15.Goode - The others were Brown and Foden so he has stiff competition to be fair

In fairness to Lancs and co a few of them were from the fairly second string Arg tour.

Also apologies in advance to Beshocked for that backline - resisted the temptation to put Barritt at 12 for the sake of your health.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Could those selecting J Davies or giving him an honourable mention pls explain how a lad that could barely pass at the start of the 6Ns finds his way into TotY?  He is a good player, and did well with the Lions (not great), but really?

That's a ridiculous statement to make, the lad was brought up as a youth on the Regan King school of distribution, and I doubt if there is a more effective passer of the ball than King in the game, Davies passing might not be the strongest part of his game but nevertheless its better than most. He was the best centre in the 2012 6Ns and no doubt about was a country mile ahead of anyone during the 2013 6Ns, and certainly ahead of any centre on the Lions tour. His Wales stats are good 9 tries in 36 matches, defensively very strong and offensively deceptively quick and wonderful balance.

You could see how good a centre he was against SA, utterly destroyed the SA defence with his two passes and two runs, Wales were a totally different team against SA for the first twelve minutes with Foxy running the game, and in those twelve minutes his 40 metres with ball in hand almost created two tries and was more than any of the other centres combined metres made during the entire match..... Fourie 0, de Villiers 26, and Scott Williams 7. In fact in the entire match no Welsh player run more than Davies did in just twelve minutes, only Habana run more with ball in hand 72 metres in 80 minutes.

The games I have seen him live against us in Edinburgh at club or international level (and that's quite a few now) he has been quite superb.

Lets hang on a second here , uttely destroyed the SA defence? Really now. His first break was from a sloppy pass which bounced and the defensive line rushed up leading to a dogleg which JD2 flew into brilliantly . His second break was from a switch play which had Jaque Fourie covering the outside man and too slow to catch JD2 who flew in on the inside . Both good breaks but to suggest he destroyed the SA defence is a bit much .

Are you serious?

0.35: he went through SEVEN defenders like a hot knife through butter and still managed to off-load and the resulting movement was a pen to Wales
6.25: superb positioning not a dogleg at all, he delayed coming into the line and sliced through 12 and 13 like they weren't there and then went onto to take three more defenders out before the offload and the resulting movement was a pen to Wales.
10.00: something different was a lovely grubber that was weighted perfect and but for the bounce going SAs way could have been close to a try opportunity.
12.30: injured attempting the try saving tackle.

12 minutes: 40 metres. 2 penalties as a direct result of his breaks. 1 grubber kick which on another day could have bounced Wales way.

Destroyed might be too harsh an assessment in your view, but I feel its appropriate at that stage in the match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz_dQAl0ABU

I consider a defence destroyed when a try is scored as a result. Wales scored 0

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Could those selecting J Davies or giving him an honourable mention pls explain how a lad that could barely pass at the start of the 6Ns finds his way into TotY?  He is a good player, and did well with the Lions (not great), but really?

That's a ridiculous statement to make, the lad was brought up as a youth on the Regan King school of distribution, and I doubt if there is a more effective passer of the ball than King in the game, Davies passing might not be the strongest part of his game but nevertheless its better than most. He was the best centre in the 2012 6Ns and no doubt about was a country mile ahead of anyone during the 2013 6Ns, and certainly ahead of any centre on the Lions tour. His Wales stats are good 9 tries in 36 matches, defensively very strong and offensively deceptively quick and wonderful balance.

You could see how good a centre he was against SA, utterly destroyed the SA defence with his two passes and two runs, Wales were a totally different team against SA for the first twelve minutes with Foxy running the game, and in those twelve minutes his 40 metres with ball in hand almost created two tries and was more than any of the other centres combined metres made during the entire match..... Fourie 0, de Villiers 26, and Scott Williams 7. In fact in the entire match no Welsh player run more than Davies did in just twelve minutes, only Habana run more with ball in hand 72 metres in 80 minutes.

The games I have seen him live against us in Edinburgh at club or international level (and that's quite a few now) he has been quite superb.

Lets hang on a second here , uttely destroyed the SA defence? Really now. His first break was from a sloppy pass which bounced and the defensive line rushed up leading to a dogleg which JD2 flew into brilliantly . His second break was from a switch play which had Jaque Fourie covering the outside man and too slow to catch JD2 who flew in on the inside . Both good breaks but to suggest he destroyed the SA defence is a bit much .

Are you serious?

0.35: he went through SEVEN defenders like a hot knife through butter and still managed to off-load and the resulting movement was a pen to Wales
6.25: superb positioning not a dogleg at all, he delayed coming into the line and sliced through 12 and 13 like they weren't there and then went onto to take three more defenders out before the offload and the resulting movement was a pen to Wales.
10.00: something different was a lovely grubber that was weighted perfect and but for the bounce going SAs way could have been close to a try opportunity.
12.30: injured attempting the try saving tackle.

12 minutes: 40 metres. 2 penalties as a direct result of his breaks. 1 grubber kick which on another day could have bounced Wales way.

Destroyed might be too harsh an assessment in your view, but I feel its appropriate at that stage in the match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz_dQAl0ABU

I consider a defence destroyed when a try is scored as a result. Wales scored 0

What you all ignore is the fact that Jaque Fourie has not played with Jean de Cilliers for 2 years, there were bound to be gaps and miscommunication in the first quarter of the match and Davies exloited that.

It is a shame he got injured, as you wuld have seen it much more difficult to breach the defences as Fourie got used to De Villiers.

JD was outstanding that 10 or so minutes against SA, I've not seen a strong SA defence cut up so easily all year.

He's very worthy of that 13 jersey imo, nobody else has really stood out.

Apparently JD2 beat 2 defenders against SA so 7 with one break sounds like an exaggeration

flyhalffactory wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Could those selecting J Davies or giving him an honourable mention pls explain how a lad that could barely pass at the start of the 6Ns finds his way into TotY?  He is a good player, and did well with the Lions (not great), but really?

That's a ridiculous statement to make, the lad was brought up as a youth on the Regan King school of distribution, and I doubt if there is a more effective passer of the ball than King in the game, Davies passing might not be the strongest part of his game but nevertheless its better than most. He was the best centre in the 2012 6Ns and no doubt about was a country mile ahead of anyone during the 2013 6Ns, and certainly ahead of any centre on the Lions tour. His Wales stats are good 9 tries in 36 matches, defensively very strong and offensively deceptively quick and wonderful balance.

You could see how good a centre he was against SA, utterly destroyed the SA defence with his two passes and two runs, Wales were a totally different team against SA for the first twelve minutes with Foxy running the game, and in those twelve minutes his 40 metres with ball in hand almost created two tries and was more than any of the other centres combined metres made during the entire match..... Fourie 0, de Villiers 26, and Scott Williams 7. In fact in the entire match no Welsh player run more than Davies did in just twelve minutes, only Habana run more with ball in hand 72 metres in 80 minutes.

The games I have seen him live against us in Edinburgh at club or international level (and that's quite a few now) he has been quite superb.

Interesting, that's not what Rob Howley said after the Ireland game last year, fhf - altho I'm sure you know better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5prwhtF9po

The thing is, have any 13's had a great YEAR? honstly? No.

JD2 or Conrad Smith probably the best, I put Ben Smith in cause the guys been on fire all year in the bak 3 and midfield.

JD2 has ben the best centre in the NH over the last 2 years for me, his pasing needs work, but thats the weakest aspect of his game by a country mile, he has an intelligent kicking game (left footed for options too), hes a very, very good strike runner (deceptively very quick) and his defence in the 13 shirt just keeps getting better and better.

considering he started as a 12, hes grown into the 13 role for Wales and we look a diferent side without him in defence and attack imo. You'll often find him making important decisions and breaks/chips ahead for wales, hes a smart player (which I think we're currently lacking with some of our behemoths).

Brown has had a very good year and stablished himself as englands no 1 fullback (should have ben about ayear aog if he hadnt ben stuck ou to dry on the wing). But Halfpenny's been ahead of him this year, and with the kicking thats helped win a 6nations and lions series he'll obviously be held in higher esteem.

Folau can have lapses agreed, but when he fancies it he can be devastating with the ball.

I just wantd to have a back 3 of Savea/Folau/North for this team. Just imagine seeing those 3 play together off some Mik Phillips box kicking....  

You mean against Mike Phillips' box kicks right?

CJ, are you suggesting that Mike Phillip's box kicking isn't an oustanding attacking weapon?  

Comfort wrote:CJ, are you suggesting that Mike Phillip's box kicking isn't an oustanding attacking weapon?  

Only in Caroline Street

I'm slightly surprised Wood isn't getting more of a mention at 6. Consistently great throughout the year and doesn't come with the baggage of not really a 6 as Robshaw does at 7.

1 - The beast
2 - Du Plesis
3 - Adam Jones
4 - AWJ
5 - Etzabeth
6 - Alberts
7 - Hooper
8 - Read
9 - Genia
10 - Sexton/ Biggar/ Cruden
11 - North
12 - Fofana
13 - Ben Smith
14 - Savea
15 - Folou/Halfpenny


Some people might think what the hell biggar but I think hes been out standing for ospreys and Wales, he's also second highest scorer in the league at such a young age.

And for full back depends whos 10 if biggar is 10 then folou at full back because I see biggar as a much better goal kicker than cruden and sexton personal opinion and of sexton or cruden are at 10 then halfpenny at fullback as he is the best goal kicker in the world

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Could those selecting J Davies or giving him an honourable mention pls explain how a lad that could barely pass at the start of the 6Ns finds his way into TotY?  He is a good player, and did well with the Lions (not great), but really?

That's a ridiculous statement to make, the lad was brought up as a youth on the Regan King school of distribution, and I doubt if there is a more effective passer of the ball than King in the game, Davies passing might not be the strongest part of his game but nevertheless its better than most. He was the best centre in the 2012 6Ns and no doubt about was a country mile ahead of anyone during the 2013 6Ns, and certainly ahead of any centre on the Lions tour. His Wales stats are good 9 tries in 36 matches, defensively very strong and offensively deceptively quick and wonderful balance.

You could see how good a centre he was against SA, utterly destroyed the SA defence with his two passes and two runs, Wales were a totally different team against SA for the first twelve minutes with Foxy running the game, and in those twelve minutes his 40 metres with ball in hand almost created two tries and was more than any of the other centres combined metres made during the entire match..... Fourie 0, de Villiers 26, and Scott Williams 7. In fact in the entire match no Welsh player run more than Davies did in just twelve minutes, only Habana run more with ball in hand 72 metres in 80 minutes.

The games I have seen him live against us in Edinburgh at club or international level (and that's quite a few now) he has been quite superb.

Interesting, that's not what Rob Howley said after the Ireland game last year, fhf - altho I'm sure you know better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5prwhtF9po

Not sure pulling two moments of atrocious passing in the 2013 6Ns match against Ireland (in an otherwise pretty damn good game but probably worst International match he had all 2013..... 10runs 11passes 33metres made, compared to BOD/D'Arcy combined of 9r 6p 8m gives you an indication of his overall game that afternoon) somehow qualifies your original statement. Unsure what Howley said, but I am sure Foxy didn't need the welsh coach to remind him of those pish-poor moments, I am sure he has attempted to eradicate that weakness in his game himself.

However have a gander at this video and you will see perfectly weighted and also a perfectly timed pass against Leicester, as well as a lot of other qualities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyU0n87zaAA

His passing is the worst part of his game but as I said without looking at any one or two moments in a game here and there..... overall his distribution is up there.

The IRB team of the year is out: it's better than i thought it would be after seeing their list, here it is:
1. Corbisiero
2. Du Plesis
3. Adam Jones
4. Eben Etzbeth
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Liam Messam
7. Sam Warburton
8. Kieran Read

9. Aaron SMith
10. Aaron Cruden
11. George North
12. Wesley Fofana
13. Conrad Smith
14. Ben Smith
15. Leigh Halfpenny

A really goo team but:
Corbisiero = great Lions tour and a great player, if he had played more i'm sure he would have been my Looshead of the year; but he missed the Six Nations, Autumn Tests and the majortiy of his games with Northampton (in the Heineken cup especially) through injury. Yet he was greta in the Lions tour, other loosehead deserve to be there instead of him.
Messum =  Alberts, Sean O'Brien, Allesandro Zanni, Luitua to name a few have played a lot more this year and been more effective in there teams. He has also been injured for a big chunk of the year.
Warburton =  Outclassed by Hooper int our final test, misses a lot of major games through injury and has been far from consistent with his form this year

People picking Smith at 13 seriously need to watch some more rugby before putting an opinion forward.

Smith hardly played a game for NZ at 13 till the AI (Aus game his first?) and was distinctly average for the majority of that.

He missed numerous tackles and got caught out if position consistently. The boy is dynamite in the back 3 but the best 13 of this season he is not by a long long way.

?

For me JD2 at 13 and no Warburton!

Jones by default I think

Le Roux and Folau unlucky

Two South Africans in the team, says a lot about how subjective these lists are.

Biltong wrote:Two South Africans in the team, says a lot about how subjective these lists are.

For a team with only 2 players considered good enough to be in a world XV they did relatively well.......  12 wins from 14 is okay i guess

Bullsbok wrote:

Biltong wrote:Two South Africans in the team, says a lot about how subjective these lists are.

For a team with only 2 players considered good enough to be in a world XV they did relatively well.......  12 wins from 14 is okay i guess

yep, could have been worse, we could have had a 50% win rate and have double that number, eh?

Or a 50% win rate with no players.

You guys….you don'tt hink you are subjective?

this is a measure of individual performance not the team otherwise it would be all NZ...was your tight head better than jones, is jdv, though brilliant, more deserving than Fofana? Hasn't LH's individual impact been immense, having conceded Le Roux has been superb and also Folau.

Who would you reaplce , with whom and why

Scratch wrote:You guys….you don'tt hink you are subjective?

this is a measure of individual performance not the team otherwise it would be all NZ...was your tight head better than jones, is jdv, though brilliant, more deserving than Fofana? Hasn't LH's individual impact been immense, having conceded Le Roux has been superb and also Folau.

Who would you reaplce , with whom and why

Warbuton has not perfomed this year compared to a Francois Louw or Willem Alberts or even Hooper . And Wesley Fofana , he's been brilliant in the 6N but JDV has been immense all year

You can make a case for several South Africans, not saying they should all be included.

But compare the following players.

Corbiseiro and Beast. Beast was a monster at scrumtime the whole season, in fact our entire front row ruled in most matches or at the least gained parity, I cannot think of one scrum that had an advantage over us for a match.

Beast had solid work rate, was good in defence and good with ball in hand.

Warburton. There is no way that Warburton had a better season than Francois louw.

Fourie du Preez was by far the best scrum half in the RC, Aaron Smith was found out big time and was very inconsistent.

Jean de Villiers had his best season at 12 in his career.

Bryan Habana was back to his best and annihilated the AB's with indivual skills on attack, scored superb tries, at Ellispark he scored two tries in the first twenty minutes before he went off due to an injury.

His defense has outshone any other 11 I have seen play this year, and his looking for work unrivaled.

Biltong wrote:You can make a case for several South Africans, not saying they should all be included.

But compare the following players.

Corbiseiro and Beast. Beast was a monster at scrumtime the whole season, in fact our entire front row ruled in most matches or at the least gained parity, I cannot think of one scrum that had an advantage over us for a match.

Beast had solid work rate, was good in defence and good with ball in hand.

Warburton. There is no way that Warburton had a better season than Francois louw.

Fourie du Preez was by far the best scrum half in the RC, Aaron Smith was found out big time and was very inconsistent.

Jean de Villiers had his best season at 12 in his career.

Bryan Habana was back to his best and annihilated the AB's with indivual skills on attack, scored superb tries, at Ellispark he scored two tries in the first twenty minutes before he went off due to an injury.

His defense has outshone any other 11 I have seen play this year, and his looking for work unrivaled.

Agree with you on all that, and certainly all the above players all put their hand up for best player in their position and that's the beauty of opinion

Habana has been very good the last four months, but even on top of his game he is behind North, particularly in defence. I have been disappointed in North since the Lions but the last two AIs he was immense.

De Villers was very good going forward in the AIs, but he is suspect in defence, against Wales he was torn apart by Jon Davies twice, and missed two tackles during the match out of seven, and against us (Scotland) out of four tackles I saw him miss two. I don't think he was in the top three inside centres in world rugby during 2013

flyhalffactory wrote:

Biltong wrote:You can make a case for several South Africans, not saying they should all be included.

But compare the following players.

Corbiseiro and Beast. Beast was a monster at scrumtime the whole season, in fact our entire front row ruled in most matches or at the least gained parity, I cannot think of one scrum that had an advantage over us for a match.

Beast had solid work rate, was good in defence and good with ball in hand.

Warburton. There is no way that Warburton had a better season than Francois louw.

Fourie du Preez was by far the best scrum half in the RC, Aaron Smith was found out big time and was very inconsistent.

Jean de Villiers had his best season at 12 in his career.

Bryan Habana was back to his best and annihilated the AB's with indivual skills on attack, scored superb tries, at Ellispark he scored two tries in the first twenty minutes before he went off due to an injury.

His defense has outshone any other 11 I have seen play this year, and his looking for work unrivaled.

Agree with you on all that, and certainly all the above players all put their hand up for best player in their position and that's the beauty of opinion

Habana has been very good the last four months, but even on top of his game he is behind North, particularly in defence. I have been disappointed in North since the Lions but the last two AIs he was immense.

De Villers was very good going forward in the AIs, but he is suspect in defence, against Wales he was torn apart by Jon Davies twice, and missed two tackles during the match out of seven, and against us (Scotland) out of four tackles I saw him miss two. I don't think he was in the top three inside centres in world rugby during 2013

  Do you watch rugby before you make such comments. Especially the defense part . Was George north not horribly exposed on the wing by the Aussies just last week?  And forgive me but i'll take comments about missed tackles with a pinch of salt. I distinctly remember  such comments as "1/2p has missed only one tackle in 24 months" .and this whole Jonathan Davies v Springboks. He made two breaks and suddenly its described as destroying the Springbok Defense or JDV was torn up by JD2. Lets get a grip people . If you want to watch a defense being destroyed go on youtube and look for Quade Cooper having his way with the Welsh .

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Biltong wrote:You can make a case for several South Africans, not saying they should all be included.

But compare the following players.

Corbiseiro and Beast. Beast was a monster at scrumtime the whole season, in fact our entire front row ruled in most matches or at the least gained parity, I cannot think of one scrum that had an advantage over us for a match.

Beast had solid work rate, was good in defence and good with ball in hand.

Warburton. There is no way that Warburton had a better season than Francois louw.

Fourie du Preez was by far the best scrum half in the RC, Aaron Smith was found out big time and was very inconsistent.

Jean de Villiers had his best season at 12 in his career.

Bryan Habana was back to his best and annihilated the AB's with indivual skills on attack, scored superb tries, at Ellispark he scored two tries in the first twenty minutes before he went off due to an injury.

His defense has outshone any other 11 I have seen play this year, and his looking for work unrivaled.

Agree with you on all that, and certainly all the above players all put their hand up for best player in their position and that's the beauty of opinion

Habana has been very good the last four months, but even on top of his game he is behind North, particularly in defence. I have been disappointed in North since the Lions but the last two AIs he was immense.

De Villers was very good going forward in the AIs, but he is suspect in defence, against Wales he was torn apart by Jon Davies twice, and missed two tackles during the match out of seven, and against us (Scotland) out of four tackles I saw him miss two. I don't think he was in the top three inside centres in world rugby during 2013

  Do you watch rugby before you make such comments. Especially the defense part . Was George north not horribly exposed on the wing by the Aussies just last week?  And forgive me but i'll take comments about missed tackles with a pinch of salt. I distinctly remember  such comments as "1/2p has missed only one tackle in 24 months"

No he was not horribly exposed on the wing at all!!!..... he played centre for the second half due to injury and made two massive thumping tackles.

I probably watch more live games than you and that's club games and internationals. I have watched every Scotland game for the last six years and  I have seen SA quite a few times over the last five years including the Lions tour five years ago, and more importantly I was in the centre of the ground a few weeks ago when Habana got turned over three times against us. I also watched the match against Wales when he got turned over twice.

How many times have you watched your home nation laddy?

What is wrong with the statement with Halfpennys defence?, it was well documented that he hadn't missed a tackle on the international stage until the Lions tour which had spanned almost two seasons

flyhalffactory wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Biltong wrote:You can make a case for several South Africans, not saying they should all be included.

But compare the following players.

Corbiseiro and Beast. Beast was a monster at scrumtime the whole season, in fact our entire front row ruled in most matches or at the least gained parity, I cannot think of one scrum that had an advantage over us for a match.

Beast had solid work rate, was good in defence and good with ball in hand.

Warburton. There is no way that Warburton had a better season than Francois louw.

Fourie du Preez was by far the best scrum half in the RC, Aaron Smith was found out big time and was very inconsistent.

Jean de Villiers had his best season at 12 in his career.

Bryan Habana was back to his best and annihilated the AB's with indivual skills on attack, scored superb tries, at Ellispark he scored two tries in the first twenty minutes before he went off due to an injury.

His defense has outshone any other 11 I have seen play this year, and his looking for work unrivaled.

Agree with you on all that, and certainly all the above players all put their hand up for best player in their position and that's the beauty of opinion

Habana has been very good the last four months, but even on top of his game he is behind North, particularly in defence. I have been disappointed in North since the Lions but the last two AIs he was immense.

De Villers was very good going forward in the AIs, but he is suspect in defence, against Wales he was torn apart by Jon Davies twice, and missed two tackles during the match out of seven, and against us (Scotland) out of four tackles I saw him miss two. I don't think he was in the top three inside centres in world rugby during 2013

  Do you watch rugby before you make such comments. Especially the defense part . Was George north not horribly exposed on the wing by the Aussies just last week?  And forgive me but i'll take comments about missed tackles with a pinch of salt. I distinctly remember  such comments as "1/2p has missed only one tackle in 24 months"

No he was not horribly exposed on the wing at all!!!..... he played centre for the second half due to injury and made two massive thumping tackles.

I probably watch more live games than you and that's club games and internationals. I have watched every Scotland game for the last six years and  I have seen SA quite a few times over the last five years including the Lions tour five years ago, and more importantly I was in the centre of the ground a few weeks ago when Habana got turned over three times against us. I also watched the match against Wales when he got turned over twice.

How many times have you watched your home nation laddy?

What is wrong with the statement with Halfpennys defence?, it was well documented that he hadn't missed a tackle on the international stage until the Lions tour which had spanned almost two seasons

Tell that to the stats old timer

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Biltong wrote:You can make a case for several South Africans, not saying they should all be included.

But compare the following players.

Corbiseiro and Beast. Beast was a monster at scrumtime the whole season, in fact our entire front row ruled in most matches or at the least gained parity, I cannot think of one scrum that had an advantage over us for a match.

Beast had solid work rate, was good in defence and good with ball in hand.

Warburton. There is no way that Warburton had a better season than Francois louw.

Fourie du Preez was by far the best scrum half in the RC, Aaron Smith was found out big time and was very inconsistent.

Jean de Villiers had his best season at 12 in his career.

Bryan Habana was back to his best and annihilated the AB's with indivual skills on attack, scored superb tries, at Ellispark he scored two tries in the first twenty minutes before he went off due to an injury.

His defense has outshone any other 11 I have seen play this year, and his looking for work unrivaled.

Agree with you on all that, and certainly all the above players all put their hand up for best player in their position and that's the beauty of opinion

Habana has been very good the last four months, but even on top of his game he is behind North, particularly in defence. I have been disappointed in North since the Lions but the last two AIs he was immense.

De Villers was very good going forward in the AIs, but he is suspect in defence, against Wales he was torn apart by Jon Davies twice, and missed two tackles during the match out of seven, and against us (Scotland) out of four tackles I saw him miss two. I don't think he was in the top three inside centres in world rugby during 2013

  Do you watch rugby before you make such comments. Especially the defense part . Was George north not horribly exposed on the wing by the Aussies just last week?  And forgive me but i'll take comments about missed tackles with a pinch of salt. I distinctly remember  such comments as "1/2p has missed only one tackle in 24 months"

No he was not horribly exposed on the wing at all!!!..... he played centre for the second half due to injury and made two massive thumping tackles.

I probably watch more live games than you and that's club games and internationals. I have watched every Scotland game for the last six years and  I have seen SA quite a few times over the last five years including the Lions tour five years ago, and more importantly I was in the centre of the ground a few weeks ago when Habana got turned over three times against us. I also watched the match against Wales when he got turned over twice.

How many times have you watched your home nation laddy?

What is wrong with the statement with Halfpennys defence?, it was well documented that he hadn't missed a tackle on the international stage until the Lions tour which had spanned almost two seasons

Tell that to the stats old timer

IT CAME FROM THE STATS.......... strewth!      

Biltong wrote:You can make a case for several South Africans, not saying they should all be included.

But compare the following players.

Corbiseiro and Beast. Beast was a monster at scrumtime the whole season, in fact our entire front row ruled in most matches or at the least gained parity, I cannot think of one scrum that had an advantage over us for a match.

Beast had solid work rate, was good in defence and good with ball in hand.

Warburton. There is no way that Warburton had a better season than Francois louw.

Fourie du Preez was by far the best scrum half in the RC, Aaron Smith was found out big time and was very inconsistent.

Jean de Villiers had his best season at 12 in his career.

Bryan Habana was back to his best and annihilated the AB's with indivual skills on attack, scored superb tries, at Ellispark he scored two tries in the first twenty minutes before he went off due to an injury.

His defense has outshone any other 11 I have seen play this year, and his looking for work unrivaled.

.

Agree with much of this especially Habana and JDV being back to their best and Francois Louw deserving more plaudits than he's getting. It also highlights the comparative positions of strength in the game though with Habana for instance in competition with Savea and North for the left wing spot.

Whilst not original and also argument stirring an end of year thread on world class players using the usual top 3 in the world in each position could show how sides have progressed pretty effectively.

1.Ayerza, Healy, The Beast - If Corbs can play regularly he'd challenge the above. Domingo beginning to impress again as well which is good to see.
2.Du Plessis, Strauss, Hibbard - Moore also solid as ever for Oz
3.Jones, Cole, Mas - Du Plessis looked strong as ever prior to injury
4.Etzebeth, Retallick, Albacete
5.Whitelock, Horwill, POC
6.Alberts, O'Brien, Leguizamon - Lobbe injured unfortunately. I still view O'Brien as a 6 and an excellent one at that!
7.McCaw, Hooper, Louw
8.Read, Parisse, Faletau - Vermuelen and Mowen also stood out

9.Du Preez, Genia, Smith
10.Cruden, Carter, Cooper

11.Savea, North, Habana
12.Fofana, JDV, Nonu
13.C Smith, Davies, BOD - Not a position of strength world wide!
14.B Smith, Bowe, Pietersen
15.Dagg, Folau, Halfpenny - Very hard on Le Roux but a position of real strength with Kearney, Hogg, Hernandez and Brown around. Not to mention Beale and JOC hopefully to return.

I'm guessing that will likely be disagreed with by many but it's my best shot with several players in certain positions unlucky to miss out.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Biltong wrote:You can make a case for several South Africans, not saying they should all be included.

But compare the following players.

Corbiseiro and Beast. Beast was a monster at scrumtime the whole season, in fact our entire front row ruled in most matches or at the least gained parity, I cannot think of one scrum that had an advantage over us for a match.

Beast had solid work rate, was good in defence and good with ball in hand.

Warburton. There is no way that Warburton had a better season than Francois louw.

Fourie du Preez was by far the best scrum half in the RC, Aaron Smith was found out big time and was very inconsistent.

Jean de Villiers had his best season at 12 in his career.

Bryan Habana was back to his best and annihilated the AB's with indivual skills on attack, scored superb tries, at Ellispark he scored two tries in the first twenty minutes before he went off due to an injury.

His defense has outshone any other 11 I have seen play this year, and his looking for work unrivaled.

Agree with you on all that, and certainly all the above players all put their hand up for best player in their position and that's the beauty of opinion

Habana has been very good the last four months, but even on top of his game he is behind North, particularly in defence. I have been disappointed in North since the Lions but the last two AIs he was immense.

De Villers was very good going forward in the AIs, but he is suspect in defence, against Wales he was torn apart by Jon Davies twice, and missed two tackles during the match out of seven, and against us (Scotland) out of four tackles I saw him miss two. I don't think he was in the top three inside centres in world rugby during 2013

  Do you watch rugby before you make such comments. Especially the defense part . Was George north not horribly exposed on the wing by the Aussies just last week?  And forgive me but i'll take comments about missed tackles with a pinch of salt. I distinctly remember  such comments as "1/2p has missed only one tackle in 24 months"

No he was not horribly exposed on the wing at all!!!..... he played centre for the second half due to injury and made two massive thumping tackles.

I probably watch more live games than you and that's club games and internationals. I have watched every Scotland game for the last six years and  I have seen SA quite a few times over the last five years including the Lions tour five years ago, and more importantly I was in the centre of the ground a few weeks ago when Habana got turned over three times against us. I also watched the match against Wales when he got turned over twice.

How many times have you watched your home nation laddy?

What is wrong with the statement with Halfpennys defence?, it was well documented that he hadn't missed a tackle on the international stage until the Lions tour which had spanned almost two seasons

Tell that to the stats old timer

IT CAME FROM THE STATS.......... strewth!      

I thought this myth has already been debunked by Biltong a long time ago ?

http://www.espn.co.uk/statsguru/rugby/player/27644.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match . dont even have to go far to look for missed tackles.

Funny that because coming into the Lions test this stats site revealed one missed tackle (Argentina) in that two season period!!, and the NZ missed tackle was actually attributed to Cuthbert.

So this stats site reveal
2013 Lions - ONE MISSED TACKLE in 3 games
2013 6Ns - NO MISSED TACKLES in 5 games
2012 AIs - ONE MISSED TACKLE in 4 games
2012 SIs - ONE MISSED TACKLE in the 3 match
2012 6Ns - NO MISSED TACKLES in 5 games
2011 AIs/WC - ONE MISSED TACKLE in 7 games

4 MISSED TACKLES in 30 Months or 27 games

That's this stats site I am sure the Welsh posters on here will get another stats site that will give you even better figures

Provide me with one SA player who has better defensive figures or even more appropriate provide one other FB on the world stage who has better defensive figures

flyhalffactory wrote:Funny that because coming into the Lions test this stats site revealed one missed tackle (Argentina) in that two season period!!, and the NZ missed tackle was actually attributed to Cuthbert.

So this stats site reveal
2013 Lions - ONE MISSED TACKLE in 3 games
2013 6Ns - NO MISSED TACKLES in 5 games
2012 AIs - ONE MISSED TACKLE in 4 games
2012 SIs - ONE MISSED TACKLE in the 3 match
2012 6Ns - NO MISSED TACKLES in 5 games
2011 AIs/WC - ONE MISSED TACKLE in 7 games

4 MISSED TACKLES in 30 Months or 27 games

That's this stats site I am sure the Welsh posters on here will get another stats site that will give you even better figures

Provide me with one SA player who has better defensive figures or even more appropriate provide one other FB on the world stage who has better defensive figures

What site is this ? I'm qouting Espn Rugby what are you qouting?

Bullsbok wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Funny that because coming into the Lions test this stats site revealed one missed tackle (Argentina) in that two season period!!, and the NZ missed tackle was actually attributed to Cuthbert.

So this stats site reveal
2013 Lions - ONE MISSED TACKLE in 3 games
2013 6Ns - NO MISSED TACKLES in 5 games
2012 AIs - ONE MISSED TACKLE in 4 games
2012 SIs - ONE MISSED TACKLE in the 3 match
2012 6Ns - NO MISSED TACKLES in 5 games
2011 AIs/WC - ONE MISSED TACKLE in 7 games

4 MISSED TACKLES in 30 Months or 27 games

That's this stats site I am sure the Welsh posters on here will get another stats site that will give you even better figures

Provide me with one SA player who has better defensive figures or even more appropriate provide one other FB on the world stage who has better defensive figures

What site is this ? I'm qouting Espn Rugby what are you qouting?

I have just gone through your link match by match.......

flyhalffactory wrote:Funny that because coming into the Lions test this stats site revealed one missed tackle (Argentina) in that two season period!!, and the NZ missed tackle was actually attributed to Cuthbert.

So this stats site reveal
2013 Lions - ONE MISSED TACKLE in 3 games
2013 6Ns - NO MISSED TACKLES in 5 games
2012 AIs - ONE MISSED TACKLE in 4 games
2012 SIs - ONE MISSED TACKLE in the 3 match
2012 6Ns - NO MISSED TACKLES in 5 games
2011 AIs/WC - ONE MISSED TACKLE in 7 games

4 MISSED TACKLES in 30 Months or 27 games

That's this stats site I am sure the Welsh posters on here will get another stats site that will give you even better figures

Provide me with one SA player who has better defensive figures or even more appropriate provide one other FB on the world stage who has better defensive figures

What you fail to mention is the amount of tackles made i'll fix that for you because im bored and have nothing better to do

2013 Lions - 8 Tackles made 1 missed in 3 games
2013 6Ns - 11 tackles 0 in 5 games
2012 AIs - 9 tackles made 3 missed n 4 games
2012 SIs - 4 tackles 1 missed in the 3 match
2012 6Ns - 15 tackles missed 1 in 5 games
2011 AIs/WC - 14 tackles 2 missed in 7 games

Read the stats again dont try and change numbers that everyone can look up with minimal effort . so yes he does miss very few tackles. on the other hand he doesnt make a lot of tackles. only 11 tackles in 5 games?

2012 AIs the NZ miss tackle was attributed to Cuthbert, it was quite clear. I missed the Australia miss tackle

When did he make a missed tackle in the 2012 6Ns, in fact Where did he make 15 tackles from?
Ire 3/0
Sco 3/0
Eng 1/0
Ita 0/0
Fra 0/0

I am not going to even bother rechecking the rest

He can only make tackles if they are front of him to be made.

Show me a SA player with his missed tackle efficiency.

not a reasonable comparison when SA play in RC every year compared to Wales playing NZ every 2 years.

anyway, Read won the POTY so the judges didnt view the missed tackle count to be as significant as you do.

quinsforever wrote:not a reasonable comparison when SA play in RC every year compared to Wales playing NZ every 2 years.

anyway, Read won the POTY so the judges didnt view the missed tackle count to be as significant as you do.

Quins you are as predictable as you are boring....

Firstly
Wales are 6th in the world.....
NZ
SA
AUS
ENG
FRA
are all above them, they play England and France every year, and they seem to play Australia more than anyone, and they either play SA or NZ every year and sometimes both. So you are correct it seems that it is unfair to me as well...... as SA only play one team above them every year and anyone else are below them in comparison to Wales

Secondly
We have all congratulated Read on a deserved award

At least Boks provides some thought behind his posts, and nothing wrong with backing your players as he does as opposed to wumming as a full time career like you.

Without quoting everything above.

Bryan Habana weaker in defence than North?

You're having a luagh.

Davies cutting up Jean de Villiers twice?

Mate, you need to understand a little more and watch a little more when you comment.

The fact that Jaque Fourie has not played with Jean for two years was going to cause potential communication issues, if a centre pairing misundersands each other, IT CREATES GAPS, gaps which Davies exploited twice.

End of story.

Jean de Villiers was the best 12 this year, end of story.

But anyway, I was asked to puta case forward for the SA players I thought could be there, and I did.

The pure disparity of having the best team being represented with 7 players, the second best team with two players, the third best team with zero players, and yet a team below them has four playwrs, suggests the fallicy of these lists.

Biltong wrote:The pure disparity of having the best team being represented with 7 players, the second best team with two players, the third best team with zero players, and yet a team below them has four players, suggests the fallacy of these lists.

Well......my Northampton Saints have two players on the IRB list.  Does that mean we are one of the best teams in the world?  
The sovereign nation of Northamptonshire..............
Nice.

Biltong wrote:Without quoting everything above.

Bryan Habana weaker in defence than North?

You're having a luagh.

Davies cutting up Jean de Villiers twice?

Mate, you need to understand a little more and watch a little more when you comment.

The fact that Jaque Fourie has not played with Jean for two years was going to cause potential communication issues, if a centre pairing misundersands each other, IT CREATES GAPS, gaps which Davies exploited twice.

End of story.

Jean de Villiers was the best 12 this year, end of story.

But anyway, I was asked to puta case forward for the SA players I thought could be there, and I did.

The pure disparity of having the best team being represented with 7 players, the second best team with two players, the third best team with zero players, and yet a team below them has four playwrs, suggests the fallicy of these lists.

Why am I having a laugh?, why do I have to watch a bit more and understand?.......... just because you said, or is it because you are a bit miffed that I have watched a few games and don't agree with you entirely (BY THE WAY I STATED THAT YOUR SEVEN PLAYERS HAVE PUT THEIR HAND UP FOR BEST IN THEIR POSITION)

North better defender than Habana?
I can only base that AIs play then in the games that I watched Scotland, Wales France, Habana got turned over three times, twice, twice. Albeit in the Wales v Sa match North himself got turned over twice as well and technically missed a tackle altho he was impeded by his fellow team-mate. However in the Tongan match North actually turned over the Tongan wing Vainikolo and the 8 Maafu.

Jean de Villiers best 12!
A 96 cap experienced player that Jean is and combining once more with the 72 cap Fourie is, and you are stating that the little capped Williams and Davies an inexperienced pairing took them apart in the first 12 mins because they haven't played together for a while  ...... ahem look at the following two matches and it was nothing to do with Fourie.

Ok lets move onto your match against us. Deluca & Taylor an even less experienced and arguably our third choice pairing and Taylor is our proverbial revolving door, and de Villiers makes just 8 metres misses a tackle and gets turned over twice. I would have said Matty Scott would have had a field day against Jean on that performance. Just to complete the assessment of the AIs.... against France he was second best against Fofana with 11 metres made, 2 turnovers against, and 2 missed tackles compared to the mercurial Frenchman performance of 51 metres, 5 defender beaten, 1 turnover, 0 missed tackles. So I would have said that if Davies hadn't gone injured after 12 minutes and 40 metres made, it would have just got from bad to worse to pretty damn dire at the office for Jean. However to balance it Fourie had an awesome AIs in spite of his underperforming midfield partner.    

You did put a case forward, and I said they all easily put their hands up for inclusion, and IMHO North hasn't been consistent enough to be included but Williams, Fofana and our own Matt Scott (when not injured) have all played superb and in my mind have performed better as an all round 12 than de Villiers.

Habana is one of the best defensive wings about, he's certainly stronger than North in this department.

I'd concur JdV has been the best 12 this season, he's been unreal for the majority, probably his best season yet.

So you don't look at the. Full year, take two matches at the end of the season and then decide these guys are better.

Let's just agree to disagree, there is no way I see them better than de Villiers and Habana.

You keep seeing it your way based on an end of year tour. I watched the whole season, and de Villiers and Habana was both tops in the RC as well.

Can someone explain to me what being turned over has got to do with defence? I thought it had absolutely nothing at all to do with your defence, rather the support of your team, the decision to run or not and the ball placement/presentation going into contact?

ChequeredJersey wrote:Can someone explain to me what being turned over has got to do with defence? I thought it had absolutely nothing at all to do with your defence, rather the support of your team, the decision to run or not and the ball placement/presentation going into contact?

Good point actually hadnt noticed he kept saying turned over??

flyhalffactory wrote:

quinsforever wrote:not a reasonable comparison when SA play in RC every year compared to Wales playing NZ every 2 years.

anyway, Read won the POTY so the judges didnt view the missed tackle count to be as significant as you do.

Quins you are as predictable as you are boring....

Firstly
Wales are 6th in the world.....
NZ
SA
AUS
ENG
FRA
are all above them, they play England and France every year, and they seem to play Australia more than anyone, and they either play SA or NZ every year and sometimes both. So you are correct it seems that it is unfair to me as well...... as SA only play one team above them every year and anyone else are below them in comparison to Wales

Secondly
We have all congratulated Read on a deserved award

At least Boks provides some thought behind his posts, and nothing wrong with backing your players as he does as opposed to wumming as a full time career like you.

you might want to think about your posts before you send them. by your logic in bold NZ shouldnt have any players in the list because their games are all easy as they are ranked better than every other team.

SA play NZ and Aus twice each in a meaningful competition, rather than once every other year in an end of season friendly. if you can't see that playing 4 matches in a tournament against the two best attacking sides (NZ and AUS) in the world is likely to lead to more missed tackles, than playing 6N which is more of a wet-weather, forward dominated game, then you are indeed rather ignoring the reality.