So... Worceter confirmed as the worst team in Europe?

First topic message reminder :

The worst in the Jeff v the worst of theT14 come out with the silver again at home (again) Worcester Warriors 15 - 19 Biarritz.

Don't get me wrong but Wuss have all the key Jeff advantages in that it has its own ground and reasonable support and the bias of the PRL shares of the financial cash splits.

But what what is wrong with the club?
And what is Dean Ryan's short-term future (i.e. Jan 1st)?

http://eurorugby.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Rugger&file=latest (as of last Monday)

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Both Connacht and Worcester are poor sides but certainly not the worst in Europe.

Naming a few players who are apparently quality (non are regular Ints) hardly makes Connacht a better side.

Both are pretty dire tbh.

There was a Sarries fan on here who used to harp on about how sh1t Connacht were. (despite never watching them in the Rabo) I seem to remember him changing his mind sharpish.

I would give Connacht a better chance of making the Amlin knockouts this season than Wor chester.

Jenifer you have no humility. You revel in repeatedly trash talking about English clubs. I at least held my hands up and admitted that I underestimated Connacht. In the HC Connacht have done very well this season - got to give them credit for that, league form though - they have been woeful.

Seems like with Connacht they have been able to motivate themselves to perform against the top sides in the HC but in the league have been unable to muster the passion to make much impact. Gives you an idea of which Connacht take more seriously - the HC or the Pro12. The Pro12 pales in significance.

Looking at results this season I agree though Connacht are better than Worcester.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Is yet another debate going to be spoiled and soiled by facile inter-league rantings?

And there was me thinking I was agreeing with you.   

I don't necessarily wants anyone to agree with me, Jen.

I just want a debate within which mud is not being slung.
My intention was for Jeff/PRL supporters to explain/argue why/how/when Worcester despite their advantages are so rank (currently).

beshocked wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Both Connacht and Worcester are poor sides but certainly not the worst in Europe.

Naming a few players who are apparently quality (non are regular Ints) hardly makes Connacht a better side.

Both are pretty dire tbh.

There was a Sarries fan on here who used to harp on about how sh1t Connacht were. (despite never watching them in the Rabo) I seem to remember him changing his mind sharpish.

I would give Connacht a better chance of making the Amlin knockouts this season than Wor chester.

Jenifer you have no humility. You revel in repeatedly trash talking about English clubs. I at least held my hands up and admitted that I underestimated Connacht. In the HC Connacht have done very well this season - got to give them credit for that, league form though - they have been woeful.

Seems like with Connacht they have been able to motivate themselves to perform against the top sides in the HC but in the league have been unable to muster the passion to make much impact. Gives you an idea of which Connacht take more seriously - the HC or the Pro12. The Pro12 pales in significance.

Looking at results this season I agree though Connacht are better than Worcester.

No I don't. I may have had a little banter in the past. Anything I said was usually in response to someone Connacht bashing. I have never gone on the offensive against English teams otherwise.

I love playing English teams in the HC. They never give up like a lot of French teams do. Their fans are always great and very sporting (French fans are great too for different reasons in fairness) Loads of NH fans came up and shook my hand last Saturday after the game and to a man they were sound.

I hope we can have a comp next year with the English in it. If we don't it will a poorer comp. But at least we will have one. I feel bad for all those genuine English rugby fans who want to follow their team in Europe.

What advantages?

They're currently in a dog fight battling relegation. My guess is the Amlin takes a big 2nd place to them retaining their AP status.

A team like Connacht for example can concentrate on the HC safe in the knowledge they'll qualify next season and they won't get relegated.

It's not really hard to understand.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:What advantages?

They're currently in a dog fight battling relegation. My guess is the Amlin takes a big 2nd place to them retaining their AP status.

A team like Connacht for example can concentrate on the HC safe in the knowledge they'll qualify next season and they won't get relegated.

It's not really hard to understand.

Obviously it is. Connacht have the hardest route to qualify for the HC in all of Europe. They have to get ahead of one of the other provinces in the Rabo.

Fact is they NEVER HAVE qualified for the HC.

They have only ever been in it because Leinster won the HC (or the Amlin last year)

So if you say

Sgt_Pooly wrote:A team like Connacht for example can concentrate on the HC safe in the knowledge they'll qualify next season

You are demonstrating that you DON'T UNDERSTAND.

Do I agree with the rule that a trophy winner drags in another team from their country? No. But seeing as it's there, I'm glad Connacht made it.

beshocked wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Both Connacht and Worcester are poor sides but certainly not the worst in Europe.

Naming a few players who are apparently quality (non are regular Ints) hardly makes Connacht a better side.

Both are pretty dire tbh.

There was a Sarries fan on here who used to harp on about how sh1t Connacht were. (despite never watching them in the Rabo) I seem to remember him changing his mind sharpish.

I would give Connacht a better chance of making the Amlin knockouts this season than Wor chester.

Jenifer you have no humility. You revel in repeatedly trash talking about English clubs. I at least held my hands up and admitted that I underestimated Connacht. In the HC Connacht have done very well this season - got to give them credit for that, league form though - they have been woeful.

Seems like with Connacht they have been able to motivate themselves to perform against the top sides in the HC but in the league have been unable to muster the passion to make much impact. Gives you an idea of which Connacht take more seriously - the HC or the Pro12. The Pro12 pales in significance.

Looking at results this season I agree though Connacht are better than Worcester.

Beshocked, Connacht had had terrible results this year. I have been tearing my hair out. Buy lam has been building systems that our players can buy into on the pitch. So many times this season these systems have broken down in the last 15 mins and we lose by a large margin. I think you will see a change in us. I want Connacht to be ahead of at least a welsh scot and Italian team. And even a Irish team if possible. And that is fully possible. If Connacht was relegated to be replaced by god knows who then all you would have done is seen the team disbanded and results like last weekend disapear. I want us to go to sarries and get a result and then also win our next Rabo match. The Rabo is huge for me. I am flying home to ireland over Christmas and will be at the sportsground for the Munster match. I cannot wait.

So they were handed it on a plate, it matters little.

"Obviously it is. Connacht have the hardest route to qualify for the HC in all of Europe. They have to get ahead of one of the other provinces in the Rabo."

So the hardest route to the HC in Europe is to finish in the top 3 of 4 teams?

Wow...tough.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
So the hardest route to the HC in Europe is to finish in the top 3 of 4 teams?

Wow...tough.

  

Sgt_Pooly wrote:So they were handed it on a plate, it matters little.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Obviously it is. Connacht have the hardest route to qualify for the HC in all of Europe. They have to get ahead of one of the other provinces in the Rabo.

So the hardest route to the HC in Europe is to finish in the top 3 of 4 teams?

Wow...tough.

If those teams are Munster, Ulster and Leinster then YES it is.  

Try it sometime.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:So they were handed it on a plate, it matters little.

Ah I see. so you don't get it. and it is not obvious.

Fair enough.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:A team like Connacht for example can concentrate on the HC safe in the knowledge they'll qualify next season

Square that one then.

Matters a lot all of a sudden eh?

There are advantages like wage caps, EPS payments, not to mention RFU support for Sixways development etc., Pooley.

The key thing, to my mind is that Wuss are in the state they are in despite their advantages bestowed upon them.

(Something that our Welsh brethren might want to keep in mind in their debates)

Jenifer Mcladyboy little banter? You mean like repeatedly criticising English sides for not winning the HC recently?


Connacht have never qualified for the HC through their own efforts and it's very unlikely they will. They rely on hanging onto the coat tails of Leinster,Ulster and Munster to get into the HC - this means that they can concentrate their efforts onto the HC knowing that ultimately it doesn't matter how they do in the Pro12 because their chances of qualifying for the HC through their own efforts are close to impossible.

It helps their profile and credibility if they try harder against strong sides like Quins,Sarries and Toulouse in the HC. Edinburgh did a similar thing when get got to the semi finals of the HC, did woefully in the league but poured their efforts and passion into the HC.

Unfortunately English sides don't have this luxury of being able to pour all efforts into just one competition. Plus they also have to face stronger sides throughout a league season because the IW affects English sides in general a lot less than the Pro12 sides. This is because the AP caters for one international side whereas the Pro12 caters for 4.

E.g. throughout the IW sides like Exeter,Sale and London Irish have mostly a full strength squad to pick from. In comparison most of the Pro12 sides are denuded of their frontline players.

Scrumpy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
So the hardest route to the HC in Europe is to finish in the top 3 of 4 teams?

Wow...tough.

  

Dunno what you are laughing at lad.

Reckon your guys could manage it? Even with your sugar daddy?

You only open your mouth to change feet   

Port, the wage cap is only an advantage if you have the means to get to it.

I doubt Wuss are anywhere near the cap, I know Falcons aren't.

What sugar daddy?

The wage cap is not the only PRL measure in place to protect the Jeff minnows, Pooly.

There's a raft of them.

beshocked wrote:Jenifer Mcladyboy little banter? You mean like repeatedly criticising English sides  for not winning the HC recently?


Connacht have never qualified for the HC through their own efforts and it's very unlikely they will. They rely on hanging onto the coat tails of Leinster,Ulster and Munster to get into the HC - this means that they can concentrate their efforts onto the HC knowing that ultimately it doesn't matter how they do in the Pro12 because their chances of qualifying for the HC through their own efforts are close to impossible.

It helps their profile and credibility if they try harder against strong sides like Quins,Sarries and Toulouse in the HC. Edinburgh did a similar thing when get got to the semi finals of the HC, did woefully in the league but poured their efforts and passion into the HC.

Unfortunately English sides don't have this luxury of being able to pour all efforts into just one competition. Plus they also have to face stronger sides throughout a league season because the IW affects English sides in general a lot less than the Pro12 sides. This is because the AP caters for one international side whereas the Pro12 caters for 4.

E.g. throughout the IW sides like Exeter,Sale and London Irish have mostly a full strength squad to pick from. In comparison most of the Pro12 sides are denuded of their frontline players.

Don't disagree with a whole lot there apart from the words "repeatedly criticising" in the first line. You probably don't read that many of my posts on threads that you don't post on, I am probably the same with you.

The second paragraph is exactly what I have been saying myself.

Yes a league with 4 nations will lose more players that one. But each team will lose more of their squad too. Look at Leinster recently with 20 players in the national squad.

Swings and roundabouts.

wolfball wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Both Connacht and Worcester are poor sides but certainly not the worst in Europe.

Naming a few players who are apparently quality (non are regular Ints) hardly makes Connacht a better side.

Both are pretty dire tbh.

There was a Sarries fan on here who used to harp on about how sh1t Connacht were. (despite never watching them in the Rabo) I seem to remember him changing his mind sharpish.

I would give Connacht a better chance of making the Amlin knockouts this season than Wor chester.

Jenifer you have no humility. You revel in repeatedly trash talking about English clubs. I at least held my hands up and admitted that I underestimated Connacht. In the HC Connacht have done very well this season - got to give them credit for that, league form though - they have been woeful.

Seems like with Connacht they have been able to motivate themselves to perform against the top sides in the HC but in the league have been unable to muster the passion to make much impact. Gives you an idea of which Connacht take more seriously - the HC or the Pro12. The Pro12 pales in significance.

Looking at results this season I agree though Connacht are better than Worcester.

Beshocked, Connacht had had terrible results this year. I have been tearing my hair out. Buy lam has been building systems that our players can buy into on the pitch. So many times this season these systems have broken down in the last 15 mins and we lose by a large margin. I think you will see a change in us. I want Connacht to be ahead of at least a welsh scot and Italian team. And even a Irish team if possible. And that is fully possible. If Connacht was relegated to be replaced by god knows who then all you would have done is seen the team disbanded and results like last weekend disapear. I want us to go to sarries and get a result and then also win our next Rabo match.  The Rabo is huge for me. I am flying home to ireland over Christmas and will be at the sportsground for the Munster match. I cannot wait.

Wolfball I have been critical of Connacht. I apologise for that but it's important that Connacht show the same intensity in the Pro12 as they have in the HC.

You as a fan might want to see your team win all their matches but let's be honest - as a player you would be more motivated taking on a star studded side like Toulouse and Sarries (especially when the English and French have criticised Connacht) in the HC than most if not all matches in the Pro12. It's because the HC is a bigger stage, you have more of a point to prove and it's a bigger competion. It's also easier to get yourself motivated for one off matches against top class opposition.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:What sugar daddy?

Sorry mate I was talking to Harsh. Eh I mean scrumpy. He was the one laughing

I'm lost Port, I thought you said the cap gave Wuss an advantage in Europe?

If you haven't got the revenue to reach the cap it's pretty irrelevant.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
So the hardest route to the HC in Europe is to finish in the top 3 of 4 teams?

Wow...tough.

  

 Dunno what you are laughing at lad.

Reckon your guys could manage it? Even with your sugar daddy?

You only open your mouth to change feet   

  

I guess you haven't seen them play this year, what was I thinking of course you wouldn't have watched a Aviva Prem or Amlin game this season!

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:What sugar daddy?

Sorry mate I was talking to Harsh. Eh I mean scrumpy. He was the one laughing

Ah right, I thought you knew something I didn't. We (Falcons) can dream of a sugar daddy but it's highly unlikely.

beshocked wrote:
Wolfball I have been critical of Connacht. I apologise for that but it's important that Connacht show the same intensity in the Pro12 as they have in the HC.

You as a fan might want to see your team win all their matches but let's be honest - as a player you would be more motivated taking on a star studded side like Toulouse and Sarries (especially when the English and French have criticised Connacht) in the HC than most if not all matches in the Pro12. It's because the HC is a bigger stage, you have more of a point to prove and it's a bigger competion. It's also easier to get yourself motivated for one off matches against top class opposition.

It seems to be a thing with Connacht in their Psyche. They always play out of their skins v Leinster for example, but lose to some mediocre teams in the Rabo. Very frustrating for their fans. They are everyone else in Ireland's 2nd favourite team and I wish they would realise that they get the same 4 points from beating Embra or Scarlets that they do from beating Leinster.

Jenifer mcladyboy Bath aren't in the HC though. Neither are Worcester.

Sgt Pooly I agree with you. It's hardly as if Worcester are in a situation like Racing Metro for example who are underachieving despite having huge financial reserves and signing lots of high profile players.

Worcester have unfortunately always hovered around the bottom of the AP table. In my opinion their poor run of form is due to a loss of key players like Mullan and Ksevic, misfiring signings plus their coach who at least gave them some sort of structure. They might have their own ground but I would say they have been one of the yo yo clubs with no solid grounding.

Scrumpy wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
So the hardest route to the HC in Europe is to finish in the top 3 of 4 teams?

Wow...tough.

  

 Dunno what you are laughing at lad.

Reckon your guys could manage it? Even with your sugar daddy?

You only open your mouth to change feet   

  

I guess you haven't seen them play this year, what was I thinking of course you wouldn't have watched a Aviva Prem or Amlin game this season!

Fair enough mate.    You got me there.

Used to watch them when they were on sky. I actually toyed with the idea of getting Setanta (Includes BT Sport over here) to watch the jeff and top 14 but figured I watched to much rugby as it is.

Money seems to have killed the Top 14 so I'm glad I kept me money in me ar$e pocket.

I'd say the Jeff is a far better spectacle for the neutral. It had improved from the Boshfest it was several years ago the last time I watched it.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:What sugar daddy?

Sorry mate I was talking to Harsh. Eh I mean scrumpy. He was the one laughing

Ah right, I thought you knew something I didn't. We (Falcons) can dream of a sugar daddy but it's highly unlikely.

Call me old fashioned, but the concept of a sugar daddy seems to conjure images of supplicant maidens being screwed mercilessly by twirly-moustachioed demons.

Remember John Hall?

Promised undying love.
Left you in the workhouse.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:What sugar daddy?

Sorry mate I was talking to Harsh. Eh I mean scrumpy. He was the one laughing

Ah right, I thought you knew something I didn't. We (Falcons) can dream of a sugar daddy but it's highly unlikely.

Call me old fashioned, but the concept of a sugar daddy seems to conjure images of supplicant maidens being screwed mercilessly by twirly-moustachioed demons.

Remember John Hall?

Promised undying love.
Left you in the workhouse.

Here we go - bringing the PRL back into it   

Strangely not, liw.

This time it appears to be that the seeminigly appalling board leadership at Wuss has resulted in abject failure despite of being the net beneficiaries of PRL funds.

Port....it was a fun ride though, I'd love to see some top class talent at Kingston (not the opposition)

Just so long as they next time look after their players properly, Pooly.

And not grind them into dust.

Or just sell them off after another fire.

A minimum 50% fan share ownership scheme in the Jeff might not be a bad idea though.

I'd like to see that Portnoy. Minimum 50% shares sold to fans, initially offered to season ticket holders, then members and then the general public with a maximum purchase limit.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Strangely not, liw.

This time it appears to be that the seeminigly appalling board leadership at Wuss has resulted in abject failure despite of being the net beneficiaries of PRL funds.

Forgive me it was just a funny based on the typical picture of the PRL as described on these forums by all those celtic experts