3rd Ashes Test, Perth

First topic message reminder :

Western Australia next, which means staying up even later to watch the start of the third test.

You would think Perth is one place the Aussies should win, so what do we do?

Panic, and drop Swann, but leave Monty in? Or perhaps play four or five seamers? Has Stokes done enough? He showed plenty of attitude, so yes, he probably has.

Has Prior done enough to see him promoted to six, as Stokes isn't one..............yet? Maybe not but we have to try and win, and playing him at six, would enable us to play five bowlers again, with Monty dropping out.

Who comes in? Finn, the 90mph quickie, with a strike rate around 50? Reliable Tim? Just coming back from injury but will give 100%, won't get smacked around, and can bat a bit. Or rankin? This would be the biggest gamble imo, as he has no test experience.

My team:

Cook
Carberry
Root
Pietersen
Bell
Prior
Stokes
Broad
Swann
Finn
Anderson

Oh dear Carberry plays on and goes for 43. England 85 for 1.

Carberry put on 85 for the first wicket with Cook, before he played on to Harris.

Dangerous times now for England as Lyons begins to get some movement - Australia fancy another wicket here.

Wow I must be dreaming.(still)

This could be England's day , well it is so far..

Morning oakey. No, you're not dreaming.

This should be a good contest. Joe v Mitch.

Morning.

Love a bit of Root v Mitch..

Root wouldn't review that unless it didn't hit

And that didn't.

That is way past the bat. 

No evidence to suggest that is out

Root goes and can count himself very unfortunate. Nothing on hotspot or snickometer but decision not overturned. Big blow to England that just before tea.

It brushed the pad no?
I think Joe should still be there. Wrong decision, imo.

Review from England, Joe Root was given out caught of Watson, and he has reviewed. Looks like Root has missed it, but its Tony Hill......
And Hill has done him in!.

That could be a massive decsion in this series. England 90 for 2.

Drs controversy back.. 

Haha

England desperately need a century from Cook or Pietersen here - or both.

Nasir needs to shut up. Forget the hotspot( we all know you can edge without that showing up)The sound didn't happen at the same time as the ball past the bat..

Therefore no evidence. Again the problem with drs. The benefit of doubt has gone to the umpire not batsman

This is what happens when you put in people not good enough to umpire club cricket at international level. Hill is not good enough, The ICC has wronged the game by appointing him.

Was that really out????????
Again a controversy, I feel. Hotspot says bat hit the pad and sniko confirmed of hitting the bat. This is technology or a joke.???????
Unfortunate Root.

The main thing was the noise. Bat was away from pad so what was the noise as Athers says as I type.

The alien concept to drs is the way we we are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. In a court of law that evidence is faulty and root could never be out.. Anyway I need to get over that..

Come on England.

Still desperately unlucky for Root and puts England right on the back foot as tea approaches.

Craig but the noise would have been at the same time as snicko.. Snicko showed that noise to be after the ball had passed the bat.

After a long time, I am joining Mr Srinivasan's camp. DRS is failing, it has to go, the ICC doesn't know how to address the issues though it can actually be done. Frustrating.

Drs wasn't really at fault there for me msp.nroot would have still been out.

It's just the application of giving the umpire the benefit of doubt

With Hill in the TV box, a DRS controversy was just an eventuality waiting to happen, just a matter. Unfortunate Root and England. Lets hope there are not many reviews in this game.

Off course the truth is , root may have hit it. But if he did there was a serious lag on snicko . Which shows that tech up big time.

Basically that evidence is in admissible ..

If a speed camera takes a pic when your car is past the vision of the camera you don't get a ticket.

I feel that the nature of Root's departure will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. From 85 for 0 to 91 for 2 and all of a sudden things look bleaker. England must get through to close of play for around 200 for 3 (no worse than that).

Root has been the player that has best stuck about before during this series. He had the best average and faced the most balls.

However cook has turned up so it's not all bad..

If England reach 300 we are still in the game.. We could still reach 400.

We are not in the same pressure cooker situation we have been before..

I don't think Root really hit that one. Hotspot showed nothing, realtime snicko showed nothing, the noice wasn't in sink with the ball moving pass the bat. Hill wasn't sure about the rules under which a batsman can be given out!.

Umpires were told before the series that snicko is liable to produce its sound only after the fact. Ive never been in favour of snicko for this exact reason, but if we are using it, we have to except that its not perfect, and the fact that it didnt show simultaneously, does not mean the edge did not occur.

It' doesn't mean that at all Graf. However when have you ever seen that before?

I can only remember snicko ever giving an indication at the same time the ball is parallel to the bat.. This situation hasn't come up before has it?

Did Clarke get to 8000 runs?

Will cook or Kp get there first?

It happened a few times during the SA-Pak series. To my knowledge its an updated version of snicko they are using this series. Bugs are inevitable.

Have you ever heard a ball swoosh past your ear before. I have and it hasn't hit my ear..that could be what was faintly picked up on snicko.

Point being who do we give the benefit of doubt to. Umpire or batsman. I have always been on the lines of the batsman.

We all know if the umpire hadn't called root out it wouldn't have been out.

Oh, Australia should have reviewed that, Hill might have done KP in there though by the rules of the game he wasn't out.

Johnson is spitting fire at the moment, Cook and KP somehow have to see this through.

Minor swing going on today.. Come on England dig in

problem then is you have to treat every edge with "whoosh" theory... which is what I said four months ago, that all snicko does is pick up sound... I was ignored then, told it will have to work... well, its working

England desperately need to get the scoreboard ticking over again and wrestle back some control of the situation.England 102 for 2 as Siddle passes Cook's bat in consecutive balls.

I bet jimmy is wishing he was bowling

Not really Graf. Only on faint ones that don't pick up at the same time it hits the bat and don't show hotspot.

Point is benefit of the doubt. There is doubt.no one can conclusively say root hit it.

Well well well...I get off the field in time to stand in the club rooms and see Root triggered by a combination of two poor umpires and ambiguous technology...

I was in a group of mainly Australian cricketers - and practically a unanimous view that Root didn't hit the ball. Shock is a fair call for the reaction to the eventual decision.

*video from several angles didn't suggest an edge
*no deflection
*the only hotspot mark on the pad
*a small mark on hotspot (which did not resemble the standard bat edge spike) showing but clearly not in synch with ball passing bat.

What more do you want ? I get the "need conclusive evidence to overturn " thing ; but seriously - if you can't tell the onfield umpire he is wrong after all that we might as well give in to the BCCI and dump the whole system...

If it were given by the onfield umpire , you'd just shrug and say , ah well , ..it happens : but if you want technology , let us use some common sense as well !

mystiroakey wrote:Not really Graf. Only on faint ones that don't pick up at the same time it hits the bat and don't show hotspot.

Point is benefit of the doubt. There is doubt.no one can conclusively say root hit it.

The key thing is the on-field umpire thought he did. He gave it out purely on a sound I reckon.

Runs completely dried up now. That is always a worry.

I know Craig benefit of doubt goes to the umpire not the batsman.

I actually prefer it if it goes one way consistently . But I would rather it go to the batsman.

Well done cooky..

Half century for Cook - he needed that as do England. You feel he needs to convert that to a century. England 108 for 2.

alfie wrote:Well well well...I get off the field in time to stand in the club rooms and see Root triggered by a combination of two poor umpires and ambiguous technology...

I was in a group of mainly Australian cricketers - and practically a unanimous view that Root didn't hit the ball.  Shock is a fair call for the reaction to the eventual decision.

*video from several angles didn't suggest an edge
*no deflection
*the only hotspot mark on the pad
*a small mark on hotspot (which did not resemble the standard bat edge spike) showing but clearly not in synch with ball passing bat.

What more do you want ?  I get the "need conclusive evidence to overturn " thing ; but seriously - if you can't tell the onfield umpire he is wrong after all that we might as well give in to the BCCI and dump the whole system...

If it were given by the onfield umpire , you'd just shrug and say , ah well , ..it happens : but if you want technology , let us use some common sense as well !

Alfie, The mistake from the onfield umpire is kind of understandable, but the mistake from the TV umpire not so. Think Root was done by the horrendous Benefit of doubt to the umpire rule of the DRS and an incompetent umpire who is nowhere nere good enough to be part of international cricket.

Im not saying Root hit it, but, if the umpires are told that snicko can pick up noises after the fact, then they have to take that into consideration. I appreciate that hotspot didnt show an edge, but during the reverse Ashes, people on here scram blue murder that we need snicko because HS isnt reliable, now that Snicko and hotspot have come to differing conclusions, everyones back in the HS camp?

Really? HS is inherently flawed for thin edges due to the fact that the material used to cover bats can counter-act it a touch. Root may have been unlucky, but it just seems everyones disagreeing with the umpires for using a system they championed not even three months ago.

I have never championed a system. I have allways been on the benefit of batsman line.. I have never wavered Graf. I am sure there are plenty that can remember our heated debates over it.

I am happy with snicko and hotspot. No problems with them. But if they can't prove someone is out then IMO they shouldn't be called out.