Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[MontysMerkin]

First topic message reminder :

That's why these pursuits should be undertaken in videogames and not in real life. Real life has a nasty habit of finding you out to be the hopeless loser you don't think you are.

[raycastleunited]

Davie

At previous tournaments the lowest ranked team (France) was the one that was moved to a different pot. Platini saw the risk and get FIFA to change it at the last minute.

[mystiroakey]

And as pointed out Ireland got stitched up last time by platini changing the rule last minute.

It's what he does..

[super_realist]

Oh yeah, Platini stitched up England because he sees them as a threat to winning it?

       

[mystiroakey]

He didn't stitch up England . He helped out France.

You really do have n issue don't you and Can't see the issues right in front of your nose because of your feelings towards England.

This is nothing to do with England. But everything to do with France and platini and blatter off course

[raycastleunited]

But England is a European heavyweight. One that has no chance of winning the World Cup. England is generally a quarter final team, consistently top 8, and although it is incredibly frustrating watching England struggle through tournaments we are always hard to beat and no one wants to play us.

[super_realist]

No, You just want to see a conspiracy. You don't have enough stats to justify your assumption.

I suppose you think he paid off Ukraine in order that they lost 3-2 in the Play-Off as well?

[mystiroakey]

Change the rules last minute to help France. No conspiracy just fact.

You are blind

[mystiroakey]

As allways you just want to get on your soap box about England.

[super_realist]

But England is a European heavyweight. One that has no chance of winning the World Cup. England is generally a quarter final team, consistently top 8, and although it is incredibly frustrating watching England struggle through tournaments we are always hard to beat and no one wants to play us.

Only in English eyes.

They have only reached the QF twice in the last 5 world cups, so not really a heavyweight. The only thing heavyweight about England are Gerrard and Lampards man boobs.

[MontysMerkin]

Well it'll be interesting to see if we get out the group that's for sure. Gonna be good games whatever, love the wc, ale n footy, classic combo!

Monty I'm surprised you like the World Cup. It's not very fair is it? Not much equality when some teams are so much better than others. Maybe Spain should have to hand over some of its best players to disadvantaged and disenfranchised teams like England. Also maybe they should change it so there is no winner, because that's too elitist

Yep you're right. Cos footy matters.

[pedro]

s_r, you are wrong. England is a heavyweight for the mere fact that people (foreigners and English alike) think they are better than they really are. Just like people think Uruguay are good because they won the WC twice. And just like people think Italy are good because they are Italy. And just like people think Portugal is good because they have Ronaldo (not the fat one). Etc.

Fact is however, that the geographic skewing of the groups ensures that we'll once again see 6-7 European teams in the QF's and 1-2 S.Americans (Brazil, Argentina). The rest are sent home on their elbows, latest in the 1/8's, just like the last couple of times.

Last fact is that Brazil will play Germany in the final, unless Spain gets some antler spray. So let's just cut all the intermediate crap.

[JAS]

I don't think they've got that bad a group to be honest although you can look at it in different ways.

The optimist will look at it and think...
Italy - notoriously slow starters, not the formidable force they used to be
Uruguay - Population somewhere between the population of Scotland & Wales
Costa Rica - who??

The pessimist will look at it and think...
Italy - ouch they've won it 4 times, they live in a hotter country than us so will be naturally more acclimatised
Uruguay - Poopie they've won it twice and got to the semis last time and they have a world class striker and they're on their own continent
Costa Rica - They got out the group the last time they were there (ok that was mainly due to Andy "I'm a Muppet" Roxborough giving them too much respect.

So...who are the optimists & who are the pessimists?

[mystiroakey]

After killing my sleep pattern to be tortured by Australia(in the cricket)

I am going to be positive about the football.. Just for the heck of it.

3 ok teams (of which we are one) any of the 2 can get out of the group

[super_realist]

If (and it's a questionable "if") England are to get out of their group, the positives are that Group C doesn't exactly contain the strongest opposition for the next round.

It's the conditions which might prove most difficult for them. Another example of how English players might benefit from playing abroad and being more used to playing in humidity and heat.

Getting through the group in a South American World Cup being played in tough conditions with 2 very good sides in your group would be a really good achievement.

[MontysMerkin]

Like the if. And agree.

[navyblueshorts]

What's with this 'humidity/heat' rubbish? We always bang on about this. Talk about getting excuses in early. These are meant to be extremely fit players.

Our trouble is a useless harum-scarum style of football that doesn't value possession and thinks a non-stop run-around-a-lot style is the way to do it. Maybe if they could keep possession better they wouldn't have to run so much and the heat would even less of an issue than it actually is.

[JAS]

What's with this 'humidity/heat' rubbish? We always bang on about this. Talk about getting excuses in early. These are meant to be extremely fit players.

Our trouble is a useless harum-scarum style of football that doesn't value possession and thinks a non-stop run-around-a-lot style is the way to do it. Maybe if they could keep possession better they wouldn't have to run so much and the heat would even less of an issue than it actually is.

Extremely fit players is only half of it Navy...sports science in top level sport is now at the point where they know EXACTLY how to thoroughly prepare players for those sort of conditions...yes the players still have to do it but the management team (including physios, nutritionists etc) will know exactly what they have to do preparation wise for optimum performance.

[SmithersJones]

What's with this 'humidity/heat' rubbish? We always bang on about this. Talk about getting excuses in early.

You're not the first to spot this Navy

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/hodgson-finalises-world-cup-excuses-formation-2013120481682

[navyblueshorts]

Extremely fit players is only half of it Navy...sports science in top level sport is now at the point where they know EXACTLY how to thoroughly prepare players for those sort of conditions...yes the players still have to do it but the management team (including physios, nutritionists etc) will know exactly what they have to do preparation wise for optimum performance.

Quite. Let's get some perspective here. On one hand, you have someone like Novak Djokovic or Nadal who can play the most exhausting tennis in, let's say, the Aussie Open heat for, let's say, 4 hours without whining about it as an excuse if they lose a match. Our footballers? Pah! Going on about, at most, 120 mins (with 15 mins break at 45 mins) in hot weather. Makes me wonder if they are actually any where near as fit as they could (should?) be...

[beninho]

Hard to compare different sports. From a quick Google search rafa nadal will cover 2 /2half miles in a 5 set match. And Steven gerrard will cover appx 6 miles in a 90minute match. You need different types of fitness but I'd say 6miles a broken into sprints in the jungle would be hard for lots of sportsmen.

[navyblueshorts]

Maybe so but we're the only ones who seem to bang on and on and on and on about it before we've even played a damned match. Everyone else just gets on with it. It's warm weather, big deal. Get on with it. If they go on like this all the time, they're beaten before they've even got off the bus. Still, looking on the bright side, at least they won't have to worry so much about muscle pulls etc...

[raycastleunited]

Maybe so but we're the only ones who seem to bang on and on and on and on about it before we've even played a damned match. Everyone else just gets on with it..

So you've been following the local media in the other 31 countries who have qualified, and no one else has mentioned it? Really?

[raycastleunited]

Extremely fit players is only half of it Navy...sports science in top level sport is now at the point where they know EXACTLY how to thoroughly prepare players for those sort of conditions...yes the players still have to do it but the management team (including physios, nutritionists etc) will know exactly what they have to do preparation wise for optimum performance.

Quite. Let's get some perspective here. On one hand, you have someone like Novak Djokovic or Nadal who can play the most exhausting tennis in, let's say, the Aussie Open heat for, let's say, 4 hours without whining about it as an excuse if they lose a match. Our footballers? Pah! Going on about, at most, 120 mins (with 15 mins break at 45 mins) in hot weather. Makes me wonder if they are actually any where near as fit as they could (should?) be...

Absolutely let's get some perspective... Tennis players get a chance to catch their breath after every point, and then get to sit down for 2 minutes and rest every other game. They're rarely on their feet for more than 10 mins. Compared to footballers who run pretty much constantly for 45 mins in a combination of sprints and jogs. They are different sports requiring different types of stamina and training so let's not get confused navy.

[raycastleunited]

Our trouble is a useless harum-scarum style of football that doesn't value possession and thinks a non-stop run-around-a-lot style is the way to do it. Maybe if they could keep possession better they wouldn't have to run so much and the heat would even less of an issue than it actually is.

Now this comment I completely agree with. It's a cultural thing. Watch any match in England, even premiership, and fans start getting uneasy when their team chooses a patient approach or even, god forbid, passes the ball backwards to retain possession.

[navyblueshorts]

Maybe so but we're the only ones who seem to bang on and on and on and on about it before we've even played a damned match. Everyone else just gets on with it..

So you've been following the local media in the other 31 countries who have qualified, and no one else has mentioned it? Really?

Yes, I have actually.....not. By all means defend our perennial under-achieving, multi-millionaire 'athletes' - someone has to. I'm fed up to the back teeth with it nowadays.

[super_realist]

Extremely fit players is only half of it Navy...sports science in top level sport is now at the point where they know EXACTLY how to thoroughly prepare players for those sort of conditions...yes the players still have to do it but the management team (including physios, nutritionists etc) will know exactly what they have to do preparation wise for optimum performance.

Quite. Let's get some perspective here. On one hand, you have someone like Novak Djokovic or Nadal who can play the most exhausting tennis in, let's say, the Aussie Open heat for, let's say, 4 hours without whining about it as an excuse if they lose a match. Our footballers? Pah! Going on about, at most, 120 mins (with 15 mins break at 45 mins) in hot weather. Makes me wonder if they are actually any where near as fit as they could (should?) be...

Absolutely let's get some perspective... Tennis players get a chance to catch their breath after every point, and then get to sit down for 2 minutes and rest every other game. They're rarely on their feet for more than 10 mins. Compared to footballers who run pretty much constantly for 45 mins in a combination of sprints and jogs. They are different sports requiring different types of stamina and training so let's not get confused navy.

Whereas I was watching MOTD at the weekend and due to the angle and height at which the cameras were at and you realise how little running, and especially sprints players actually make. There is a great deal of walking and "jogging".
It's the same when you go and watch a game. They really are severely over-rated as athletes, and in terms of complete fitness boxers, tennis players, cyclists and swimmers would easily outlast a footballer in endurance.

Let's remember that even the most mobile of footballers only covers 10 or 11 k in 90 minutes and people see that as being somewhat remarkable, yes they do a few sprints and have to recover quickly, but seldom more than 30metres at a time, even a decent club runner could cover about 22km in the time it takes a football match to be played out.
Footballers as athletes simply aren't as good as they could and should be.
Footballers also have about a 30% chance of being subbed off.

[pedro]

But just as in golf and tennis, footballers have become much fitter in the last 20 years. No one drinks or smokes heavily anymore, as was the case in the 70's and 80's. You don't see any fatty anymore, no Maradona, no Ronaldo, talented as they were.

[super_realist]

Really? You still see a lot of British footballers falling out of nightclubs and smoking fairly regularly. Just the other week that halfwit from Arsenal was seen puffing away outside a nightclub at 3am.

Seldom see the foreign ones doing that though.

[pedro]

yes, the odd splif. but not 20 cigs a day.

[super_realist]

Probably not, I definitely think UK "professionals" are less professional than their European counterparts though.

I'm sure that Germans, Danes, Swedish etc are not particularly suited to playing high humidity and high temps but I bet because of the way they live they probably would do better than UK players, and you never hear the excuse either.

[pedro]

Some of their parties are pretty humid I hear....

[super_realist]

Spit roasting a vacuous slapper must be hot work.

[raycastleunited]

I'm sure German, Danish, Croatian etc footballers are just as likely to spend their weekend roasting local "stunnas", it's just they seem to be a bit more discreet about it, and other countries seem to have less of an obsession with mindless celebrity.

All you need to do is spend 5 minutes on the internet researching Imogen Thomas and Natasha Giggs to understand how low our celebrity culture has fallen.

[super_realist]

I suppose the French have a well publicised habit of dubious nocturnal activities.
Look how poor they are these days.

Generally though, It seems your average footballer isn't as professional as they ought to be.

[raycastleunited]

Maybe so but we're the only ones who seem to bang on and on and on and on about it before we've even played a damned match. Everyone else just gets on with it..

So you've been following the local media in the other 31 countries who have qualified, and no one else has mentioned it? Really?

Yes, I have actually.....not. By all means defend our perennial under-achieving, multi-millionaire 'athletes' - someone has to. I'm fed up to the back teeth with it nowadays.

I'm not defending them, just recognising that this is a popular topic for other countries too. I've had this conversation with Danes who worry about the performance of their team in the heat of summer tournaments. I've also watched Spanish tv and listened to pundits talking about players struggling in the heat and altitude.... and that is Spain where it's significantly warmer than England!

[mystiroakey]

Erm I think you have an outdated view of the uk sportsmen. 

I would have agreed with you 10 years ago. But the majority of our players are as if not more professional than there foreign peers.

[navyblueshorts]

Erm I think you have an outdated view of the uk sportsmen. 

I would have agreed with you 10 years ago. But the majority of our players are as if not more professional than there foreign peers.

Come on! I don't buy that for a second...at least not in relation to footballers.

[super_realist]

They might be more professional than they were 10 years ago, but I don't think many are in the Djokovic/Murray level, where if I was lucky enough to be a professional at any sport is where I'd aim to be to give myself the best chance to be the greatest player I could be.

Golfers in particular are a disgrace in this respect.

[MontysMerkin]

All you need to do is spend 5 minutes on the internet researching Imogen Thomas and Natasha Giggs to understand how low our celebrity culture has fallen.

Yes, because back in the day it always used to scale the cultural and intellectual heights, from Frank Bruno to Isla St. Clair.

[mystiroakey]

Its not about buying it its about seeing it.

When the UK gets so high up in the Olympics, and so well in so many sports its just common sense.

There are a lot of people that need to be negative and cant see the woods for the trees

[raycastleunited]

I suppose the French have a well publicised  habit of dubious nocturnal activities.
Look how poor they are these days.

Generally though, It seems your average footballer isn't as professional as they ought to be.

Not just the French, the Dutch as well... Van Persie, Kluivert,

[super_realist]

Yet, despite all the money rolling around in Football, the UK are pitiful on a national level.

If someone like Brailsford was in charge of the FA I think he'd be appalled at the lack of discipline.

[MontysMerkin]

So footballers are morons. Glad we've cleared that up.  

[mystiroakey]

"Probably not, I definitely think UK "professionals" are less professional than their European counterparts though."

you talk about uk professionals , and know you are trying to switch it to footballers??

stop changing the goal posts,

all footballers are similar, but overall i would say that the UK are no worse if not better than there Euro counterparts

[super_realist]

I meant in regard to their fitness and I thought in the context we'd tacitly accepted we were talking about footballers.
The country that routinely moans most about adverse conditions and which seems to breathe out of it's collective backsides in tough conditions are generally UK based.

Please work on your "their, there, too, to, won, one, know, now"

[mystiroakey]

This year there is one player out on his own in regards to work rate. he is all over the pitch and tries as hard as he can every game..

That player is called fat by many because he is English. Yet his work rate is exceptional

I dont even need to mention his name because we all know who he is.

People have this strange issue about English players

[MontysMerkin]

I meant in regard to their fitness. The country that routinely moans most about adverse conditions and which seems to breathe out of it's collective backsides in tough conditions are generally UK based.

It's probably cos you're exposed to it more. Bet if you were in Italy, Spain etc the media would be the same and therefore people with spout off the same. Think it just gives people something to talk about in the pub tbh

[raycastleunited]

All you need to do is spend 5 minutes on the internet researching Imogen Thomas and Natasha Giggs to understand how low our celebrity culture has fallen.

Yes, because back in the day it always used to scale the cultural and intellectual heights, from Frank Bruno to Isla St. Clair.

ok it's never been the intelligentsia, but surely something has changed when women can make a career (not just a quick kiss n tell) from cheating on partners with footballers? and not just that but they are also held up as role models? Natasha Giggs was nominated for mum of the year after she cheated on her husband with his brother for a decade, sold her story to the press and abandoned her kids to go on reality tv.

[mystiroakey]

I meant in regard to their fitness and I thought in the context we'd tacitly accepted we were talking about footballers.
The country that routinely moans most about adverse conditions and which seems to breathe out of it's collective backsides in tough conditions are generally UK based.

Please work on your "their, there, too, to, won, one, know, now"

Please work on your logic and what is really going on! Stop being sucked in by these stereotypes

[MontysMerkin]

Think it's always gone on, just that the tabloids can be a bit more explicit about whats gone on. I'm sure George Best and his generation could tell a tale or 2...
And being a WAG (shudder) has always been a valid career path for a mogel with good 'lungs'.

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