Double Points at season final agreed by FIA Strategy Group/Permanent Numbers & New Penalties

First topic message reminder :

Formula One has taken the unprecedented step of awarding double points at the final race of the season in a bid to keep the title race open.
The change in ruling, which was agreed by the F1 strategy group and Formula One commission in Paris on Monday, will see the winner of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix secure 50 points with 36 for second place and so on.
The controversial step, had it been introduced in previous seasons, would have seen Felipe Massa crowned champion in 2008 instead of Lewis Hamilton, and Fernando Alonso seal his third championship rather than Sebastian Vettel four years later.

All Drivers will now being given a permanent number with #1 reserved for Champion must be below #99

Five-second penalties

One of the criticisms of penalties in F1 of late has been over their severity, with a drive-through the minimum applicable punishment.

A five-second penalty is a good way to tackle this. Ideally, some way to implement such a penalty needs to be found that does not leave cars out of position with a virtual race time to allow racing to continue as before.

This would require some kind of bespoke penalty lane, which would require a lot of work for circuits, so most likely it will just come down to a post-race time penalty.

It will appease those critics who think penalties are too harsh. But it will lead to drivers battling each other when they are five seconds ahead or pulling off overtaking manoeuvres when on a different part of the track.

Overall, this is a pragmatic rule and probably for the best.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2520942/F1-makes-controversial-decision-award-DOUBLE-POINTS-final-race-season.html#ixzz2n0bYYK2Q
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CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Sorry if it's perceived I was taking it off track but actually I was trying to show that this is where the sport can only go, and to greater extent in the future. Just because we've been heading this way for decades doesn't mean it doesn't change the impact.

Eventually spectators will tire of the contrivance and there'll be a gap for a much more open sport.

It has been heading this way for decades and the one constant in the sport pulling all the strings has been Ecclestone. Maybe your idol should take some blame for that...no? I would say again though that fans want and crave close finishes in a season more than anything else. If this season is a close battle in the title race going into the last race then most will have seen it as a resurgence in the sport.

You don't read deeply again. I'm telling you that this sort of evolution us inevitable, it doesn't matter who runs the sport competition and technology will create monopoly positions that can only be countered by contrivance.

I don't have idols. That's how you think, unfortunately (for you).

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Eccleston is an angel compared to most of the people we place in charge, and to the majority of global corporates. The idea that an alleged bribe of a few million makes the guy somehow unconscionable is absurd.

He'll, there wasn't even anybody harmed, not on the most critical judgement (hence zero damages awarded).

Is he really? In other sports such corruption is rooted out and punished. Look at snooker handing out life bans to players for taking cash to throw matches and in cricket players have similarly been banned for life for taking bribes. However, in F1 Ecclestone bribes yet stays in charge of the sport....incredible. The group who put in a bid were denied the chance to take control of the sport by the bribe paid by Ecclestone so that he could get a company on board that would only sing from his hymn sheet. However, you want to paint it bogbrush it stinks to high heaven. Whatsmore the BBC were reporting that the double points ruling will be passed through even though the majority of teams are against it as are the fans. The report feels he will influence the teams to vote for double points by offering them sweeteners. What a way to pass through a scatter-brained scheme that even your hero Sebastian Vettel has described as 'absurd'.

I don't have heroes, that's how you think (again, and unfortunately for you, again).

Otherwise, this post is just so naive.

How is it naive? Ecclestone's corruption stinks as does the way he curries favour to get his own way. Pretty pathetic and indefensible whether you hate him or admire him. Anyway then who is wrong Seb Vettel for calling double points 'absurd' or Ecclestone for obsessed with pushing through the idea?

How do you perceive F1 just now bogbrush? Looking at your comments here on aerodynamics/technology etc tells me you are not happy but yet you feel none of this is Ecclestone's fault? He has steered F1 on the path it has taken so he is accountable as we know the FIA have firm control on what innovations and technologies can and cannot be used in the sport so plenty could have been different and the sport could have been different.

It's naive because what he's alleged to have done is small potatoes. Nobody even lost out.

Neither is wrong. Both are stating their view, Eccleston is running the sport.

My perception is clear; it's increasingly contrived, but that's no individuals fault, it's inevitable over time. It will get worse no matter who is in charge, it's been going down this road for decades. You can't blame BE for this, nor the FIA.

Yes the company putting in a bid lost out on the chance of having a say in F1 - very important that as Bernie has become a billionairre doing that. So yes someone lost out - BIG TIME due to his bribery.

Well someone has to be wrong. Either Vettel is wrong for calling it absurd (if it turns out to be a success) or Ecclestone is wrong for trying to force through a rule nobody I have spoken to wants.

Well if you think F1 is contrived yet not Ecclestone's or FIA's fault I am puzzled. Many people for example have been dead against DRS and feel this gimmick should be banned but the powers that be haven't acted. It is thought it just makes overtaking far too easy and is harming the sport. It is things like this that Ecclestone and FIA do have a say over.

Well, no they didn't. The judge said so when he threw out their claim for damages.

No, they can both be right on the question you asked. You didn't ask the right question.

I'm right because anybody would have had to make F1 a contrivance. Read my posts: it's inevitable, and will get worse. It's because of technology and competition.

Yes the judge threw out the claim for damages but also said Ecclestone had made a 'corrupt deal' and was 'untruthful and unreliable'. That is not traits worthy of someone running a global sport. If you feel it is because of technology is it any type in particular? After all technology has been in F1 as long as F1 itself so has it always been contrived or if not when did it become contrived in your opinion?

Ecclestone will have to step down in the very immediate future.

However chances are he'll just be pulling the strings from the shadows anyway

GSC wrote:Ecclestone will have to step down in the very immediate future.

However chances are he'll just be pulling the strings from the shadows anyway

Pretty much spot on probably. He will have to go, however, he'll make sure his replacement is of his choosing & will always be pulling the strings from behind the scenes. He has too much knowledge, strong trusted relationships within the F1 world & the track owners which will always remain loyal to him & his ways of dealing.

To be honest it's boring the Ecclestone story. What will be will be with him & his ownership, much more interested in what's unfolding on the track as we enter this new era of F1.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Eccleston is an angel compared to most of the people we place in charge, and to the majority of global corporates. The idea that an alleged bribe of a few million makes the guy somehow unconscionable is absurd.

He'll, there wasn't even anybody harmed, not on the most critical judgement (hence zero damages awarded).

Is he really? In other sports such corruption is rooted out and punished. Look at snooker handing out life bans to players for taking cash to throw matches and in cricket players have similarly been banned for life for taking bribes. However, in F1 Ecclestone bribes yet stays in charge of the sport....incredible. The group who put in a bid were denied the chance to take control of the sport by the bribe paid by Ecclestone so that he could get a company on board that would only sing from his hymn sheet. However, you want to paint it bogbrush it stinks to high heaven. Whatsmore the BBC were reporting that the double points ruling will be passed through even though the majority of teams are against it as are the fans. The report feels he will influence the teams to vote for double points by offering them sweeteners. What a way to pass through a scatter-brained scheme that even your hero Sebastian Vettel has described as 'absurd'.

Well said Craig!


@bogbrush: My "off-topic" comment wasn't specifically aimed at you, I just noticed there were a few posts that were taking the thread back towards the technology aspect.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes the judge threw out the claim for damages but also said Ecclestone had made a 'corrupt deal' and was 'untruthful and unreliable'. That is not traits worthy of someone running a global sport. If you feel it is because of technology is it any type in particular? After all technology has been in F1 as long as F1 itself so has it always been contrived or if not when did it become contrived in your opinion?

The IOC and FIFA are screwed then, after all what is alleged to go on at the top of those organisations dwarfs anything Bernie has ever allegedly done. More just allegedly got screwed out of the Winter Olympics in one event than in the whole history of F1. And the 2022 World Cup?   

As for judges judgement, I cited that to demonstrate my statement - which you contradicted - that nobody lost out. Clearly nobody did.

I don't really understand your third sentence, the technology is what drives increasingly contrived rules yet you're building it into a comment about BE ethics, or so it looks.

Someone did get screwed as I explained - the company up for putting in a bid for control of F1. Ecclestone bribed so that a company who bid less money won the rights as he wanted because they would sing from his hymn sheet. Bernie really is rotten to the core and his slimey side comes out again as he is butt-licking Putin now as there is a Russian Grand Prix on the horizon so he sides with Putin's anti-gay views.

As for technology - however you look at it technology has been in F1 from day one. Innovations have been there in various guises over the decades so I ask again when did it start becoming contrived? In the 1950s? 1960s? 1970s or when exactly?

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes the judge threw out the claim for damages but also said Ecclestone had made a 'corrupt deal' and was 'untruthful and unreliable'. That is not traits worthy of someone running a global sport. If you feel it is because of technology is it any type in particular? After all technology has been in F1 as long as F1 itself so has it always been contrived or if not when did it become contrived in your opinion?

The IOC and FIFA are screwed then, after all what is alleged to go on at the top of those organisations dwarfs anything Bernie has ever allegedly done. More just allegedly got screwed out of the Winter Olympics in one event than in the whole history of F1. And the 2022 World Cup?   

Well actually the IOC and FIFA are not making glaring and looney suggestions like Bernie. I don't see the IOC pushing for tiddlywinks to be brought into the Games or medals to be scrapped in favour of a points system. Likewise I don't see FIFA looking to make rule changes such as handling the ball to be allowed or changing anything demographically with the sport because in general they are grounded well enough. True both have had dark issues but at least their sports are run in a level-headed manner and not with hair-brained schemes like Bernie continues to champion and force through even if nobody wants them.

No FIFA just happened to award a World Cup and then have to reschedule the entire thing afterwards

Yes that is true but that World Cup is all of four years away so at least there is more than enough time to adjust to the date change. FIFA are not changing the scoring system, or the sports rules in any shape or form for the worse are they? Besides the head of FIFA has a fixed term where they can only remain in the post for a set amount of years whereas F1 is stuck with Ecclestone - like it or lump it. Perhaps that is another reason he associates well with Putin as that man has a similar hold on power.

You're massively understating just how big a deal it going to be to move it from a summer window to the middle of the club season. Ecclestones gimmicks aren't really on the scale of that balls up

If they were changing dates - say less than a year before then I would agree but that tournament is four and a half years away so time to adjust to the change - not ideal by any means and is a mistake I agree but it is the first time ever FIFA have made such a blunder whereas Bernie is famed for them but will carry on regardless - F1 is run like a communist state. If Bernie wants something he gets it and to hell with what anyone else wants in the sport.

Yeah, because FIFA didn't have a bribery/corruption scandal of its own in the lead up to that decision. Again you're understating it. They aren't going to be able to say we're doing it in winter now and everyone accepts it

Whatever the bribery/corruption involved (was there a court case?) in this decision the head of FIFA will lose his job in the end though as they have a fixed term in charge unlike F1 where Ecclestone sits in his seat of power without a chance of being removed. That is wrong.

Blatter remaining in charge of FIFA is pretty similar to Ecclestones reign of tyranny. And no, FIFA were investigated by FIFAs own corruption body. So hardly surprising nothing was turned up.

Well no it isn't really. Each country's representative in FIFA every few years get to vote on who becomes FIFA President so there is that democracy there in that his power is not guaranteed. F1 is run like a Communist state of the mid-twentieth century wherein Ecclestone cannot be removed from power regardless of whatever incompetence or offence he does. That is just plain wrong.

That's cute that you believe that. Anyone who dares stand against Blatter gets discredited in some way. The last guy ended up being suspended by FIFA iirc

Well there is a fixed term there unlike in F1. Ecclestone rules regardless of anything or what anyone wants. Such is his vice-like grip it is why we see him pushing through hair-brained schemes regardless of how potty they are. At least Blatter is not like that - I mean do we see him looking to change the sports rules and regulations or force through rules only he wants? I am not saying FIFA are angels but at least there is a choice there unlike in F1 where it is a dictatorship in charge.

Blatters fixed term will end when he feels like it

GSC wrote:Blatters fixed term will end when he feels like it

Actually no. He has went through three re-elections since coming to power in 1998. On the other hand how many times has Ecclestone went through an election process? It just doesn't happen in F1.

Again, cute but naive. Blatter hasn't ever been in any actual danger of being supplanted.

Yes but the chances are there for people to vote against him and vote him out. That chance isn't there in F1.I suppose there are similarities as in if only the total voting representatives took a moral stance and voted against Blatter he would be gone most definitely. Similarily in F1 if the teams and underlings at the FIA banded together then I am sure Ecclestone could be overthrown as well.

There's a chance Forest could win the PL next season. That doesn't mean it's remotely feasible in reality.

GSC wrote:There's a chance Forest could win the PL next season. That doesn't mean it's remotely feasible in reality.

Look it is up to those that elect to take a stance. Now if Blatter is so repugnent then if the representatives were to vote against him he'd be out. No two ways about that. The fact that those voting may have no morals or no backbone is the issue here is it not?

If Bernie gets the boot Christian Horner is expected to succeed him

Bernie & Horner are bum chums, I know he sounded him out about the job a few months back. Wouldn't surprise me to see Horner jump from a sinking RB ship.

Whatever happens, as we've discussed already, Bernie will still be pulling the strings.

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes the judge threw out the claim for damages but also said Ecclestone had made a 'corrupt deal' and was 'untruthful and unreliable'. That is not traits worthy of someone running a global sport. If you feel it is because of technology is it any type in particular? After all technology has been in F1 as long as F1 itself so has it always been contrived or if not when did it become contrived in your opinion?

The IOC and FIFA are screwed then, after all what is alleged to go on at the top of those organisations dwarfs anything Bernie has ever allegedly done. More just allegedly got screwed out of the Winter Olympics in one event than in the whole history of F1. And the 2022 World Cup?   

As for judges judgement, I cited that to demonstrate my statement - which you contradicted - that nobody lost out. Clearly nobody did.

I don't really understand your third sentence, the technology is what drives increasingly contrived rules yet you're building it into a comment about BE ethics, or so it looks.

Why are you bringing the IOC and FIFA into a discussion about F1?

Are you trying to say that because they're even more corrupt - allegedly, then Bernie should be excused?

Strawman argument I'm afraid.

He's been found guilty of bribery and therefore should not continue in his present capacity. Simple as that.

Fernando wrote:If Bernie gets the boot Christian Horner is expected to succeed him

Oh lordy - I hope not. May as well leave Ecclestone in charge, if thats the case...      

Sorry no I would take Coco the Clown over Ecclestone.

F1 Strategy Group vote against having 3 races with double pts but the final race stays.

Well, thats something, but you can guarantee there will be an almighty row...or at least some very loud rumblings of discontent if the last race dramatically alters the outcome of the season.

While I can't say I've enjoyed watching Red Bull win 4 seasons on the trot, you have to admire their consistency and ability to put winning streaks together.

F1 is supposed to be about performance and reliability over a season...if that makes the last 2-3 races of a season dead rubbers, so be it.

Shows you what a travesty it is that BE is still in charge (for now, at least). Nobody but nobody thinks this is a good idea, except him and nobody wanted this. But because Emperor Ecclestone reckons it'll "spice things up a bit" and keep things interesting for the punters, in the event that 1 team runs away with the championship, thats what we're stuck with.