rugby related independance question

First topic message reminder :

Despite the threat of violence from RDW, I thought I'd pose a question connected to independance.

If Scotland goes independant, what happens to the name of the British & Irish Lions?

I'm assuming Scotland would still be invited to take part, so would the name of the team become the British, Irish and Scottish Lions? Or just The Lions for ease?

Please don't turn this into an independance debate, it will make RDW cry, but feel free to make jokes about it not mattering as Scotland won't have any players good enough to play!   

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Dig the moat, extend the wall with barbed wire, send all the foreigners home. Extend Offas Dyke and ditto, we already have the Irish Sea.

England for the English.


Well not really, but everyone else has or is having a vote except the English. We are stuck with whoever wants to be joined with us but have no say in who we want to join with.

It's a bit like Zimbabwe voting whether or no to be part of South Africa without the South Africans having any say in it. No other country would put up with it.

I don't get the analogy.

Scotland is not part of England, its part of the United kingdom of Great Britain (superseded but the UK of GB&NI) as per the act of Union. Both parties have to agree to a Union, why is it you think the English should get a vote on Scottish Independence?

Scotland is not a colony, it shouldn't be expected to remain in a Union against the wishes of the majority, should that turn out to be the case (which it won't).

Personally I don't think the Scottish government want to leave the UK any more than the british government wish to leave the EU - this is just a bluff to try and recapture greater powers for the devolved government, particularly around tax control and fiscal powers.

Remember the original wish was for 3 questions on the referendum which the UK government refused. There is a lot of bluffing going on.

rodders wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Dig the moat, extend the wall with barbed wire, send all the foreigners home. Extend Offas Dyke and ditto, we already have the Irish Sea.

England for the English.


Well not really, but everyone else has or is having a vote except the English. We are stuck with whoever wants to be joined with us but have no say in who we want to join with.

It's a bit like Zimbabwe voting whether or no to be part of South Africa without the South Africans having any say in it. No other country would put up with it.

I don't get the analogy.

Scotland is not part of England, its part of the United kingdom of Great Britain (superseded but the UK of GB&NI) as per the act of Union. Both parties have to agree to a Union, why is it you think the English should get a vote on Scottish Independence?

Scotland is not a colony, it shouldn't be expected to remain in a Union against the wishes of the majority, should that turn out to be the case (which it won't).

Personally I don't think the Scottish government want to leave the UK any more than the british government wish to leave the EU - this is just a bluff to try and recapture greater powers for the devolved government, particularly around tax control and fiscal powers.  

Remember the original wish was for 3 questions on the referendum which the UK government refused.  There is a lot of bluffing going on.

Excellente reasoning, Rodders.  Some in England (not all!!) still have the Imperialist attitude that 'England' owns the 'Union'........................ !!! (I'm just after thinking what that sounds like!! - but I promise not to go there! )  

Anyway, that's what some of them think - and in the early days of some discussions on this one (Scottish Independence) there were people saying that they 'weren't against the idea of letting Scotland have a vote'.  Sounds so accomodating on a first read but says so much about their more deep seated 'ownership rights' belief when you really look at it.  The Scots are not being "given" the right to vote on it, they're "taking" the right and voting on it.

Anyway, it's their choice which way they go but why so much terror at the idea that they'd actually go ahead and become Independent?  Independent countries have friendships with other Independent countries the world over (socially and business-wise)............... why the big terror always of 'letting' someone go their own way, and 'letting' them have their unique perspectives on the world without being hindered by a collective?

And last point - just in case this comes up as a retort.  I've always said if PRL want to go their own way - let them do so.  It's there in print so I'm not contradicting myself on the two theories relating to Scotland Unity and ERC division.  What I was always against was the idea that PRL would 'own' the Unions.  Oops!  I went there.