Scotland Fans' 2014 6N of hell Post-mortem

First topic message reminder :

EDIT March 18th post-Scotland's capitulation to Wales

So, it's the end of the six nations. I have to say the intention of this early prediction thread was to calm all suppositions that Scotland might be anywhere near a threat this year. I have maintained that things look better with Cotter coming in (and hopefully not having to resort to 5th/6th choice wings, though that couldn't have been predicted).

Someone pointed out that in this last game if Wales had received the red card the scoreline would not have been the same in reverse. In fact I would be very worried that we still would have lost. To me it feels like it was an excuse to put the heads down/give Johnson the farewell he deserves.

Personally, I am lost for words. Not really sure where to go from here.

Anyone?

***

EDIT March 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to France.

Come hither one and all and we shall drink our sorrows away...

***
EDIT February 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to England & Ireland

I was right all along.

***

I got this in early because I did not want to see anybody from any nation suggest for any minute that Scotland has a chance of doing anything other than :

a) Cleaning their dirties in a smeg [White Wash]
b) Making lots of soup this winter [wooden spoon]
c) Scraping a win against Italy , in the dying seconds after a urine poor performance , which still might result in "b)" anyway.

No they did not beat Ireland.  
No they did not beat England.
No they did not beat France.  
No they did not beat Wales.  

They might *look* like they are going to win to any outsiders no privy to the Scotland set up, but I guarantee you no sensible Scottish fan will be expecting anything but a, b & c this season.

Why?

• We have an interim coach (for over a year!!!)who is more worried about what he says on camera than apparently coaching a sensible game plan
  
• Our breakdown is awful
  
• We have the psychological hardness of my nan - you don't know my nan but that's not good
  
• Our best players are either never played in position, not allowed to play in the XXIII at all, or are just awful at the moment. Not making the injury excuse because frankly it doesn't apply with exception of 2 key players that might be back in time. Happens in every squad
  
• etc, etc (feel free to add to this list)
  

So look, when we are compiling our 6N predictions this year, can we just for once all agree on something?

1. AN Other
2. AN Other
3. AN Other
4. AN Other
5. Maybe Scotland
6. Probably Scotland

Anyone mentions "dark horses" and "Scotland" in the same sentence without a negation clause in there somewhere (and you KNOW what I mean) I am getting our the knuckle dusters    

OK, it's a bit fruity, but watch this and squint your eyes (or, in my case, slide out your lenses):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/winter-olympics/26069660

It certainly explains why a certain lock wasn't available to play last week...

Haha, good one.

So turns out that this whole plan B of Hogg to 10 doesn't it exist. While it would be good to have one let's face it we don't need one, we've got Johnson-ball!!!

Worth putting it in writing on this thread too. My OP says we could squeak past Italy and come 5th, maybe, and actually I think that will happen this weekend. This does not change my views on Johnson or Scottish rugby or our tournament by the way - BAU 2 weeks later I am sure.

Ritchie Gray on ice! Scary

Well done today Scotland . As 606s Scotland Oracle though , having called the dire losses (see OP) and the tight last minute victory in Rome (OP and recent post on this thread) I feel responsible to tell everyone to please not get too carried away. Business as usual in 2 weeks. By all means support but don't expect victory at all. If i turn out to be wrong i will hold my hands up but it's doubtful.

Still well done today building for when Scotland get a better coach

Ineffable wrote:Well done today Scotland . As 606s Scotland Oracle though , having called the dire losses (see OP) and the tight last minute victory in Rome (OP and recent post on this thread) I feel responsible to tell everyone to please not get too carried away. Business as usual in 2 weeks. By all means support but don't expect victory at all. If i turn out to be wrong i will hold my hands up but it's doubtful.

Still well done today building for when Scotland get a better coach

Doooooooooooooooooooooooood

mathmatically, we can still be crowned as champs   

tigertattie wrote:

Ineffable wrote:Well done today Scotland . As 606s Scotland Oracle though , having called the dire losses (see OP) and the tight last minute victory in Rome (OP and recent post on this thread) I feel responsible to tell everyone to please not get too carried away. Business as usual in 2 weeks. By all means support but don't expect victory at all. If i turn out to be wrong i will hold my hands up but it's doubtful.

Still well done today building for when Scotland get a better coach

Doooooooooooooooooooooooood

mathmatically, we can still be crowned as champs   

Behave.......

 

I still think we're dark horses.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I still think we're dark horses.

Although we play Wales at the Millenium, if they need points we can be pretty stodgy if we want. We might not be dark horses, but we can sure be party poopers.

...Unless Ireland loses and it's points difference between England and Wales. Then we'll suddenly concede 100 points   

We probably owe them for 1999, it must be said!

They still owe us for inflicting Charlotte Church on the rest of the world, surely?

IanBru wrote:We probably owe them for 1999, it must be said!

Agreed - Celtic pact. If Wales need 100 points I'd suggest we let them score at will. We can make it look convincing by just playing Finn Russell and Mark Bennett in the centres, and say we're building for the future, in a galaxy far far away.....

And anyone involved in the Go Compare adverts.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

IanBru wrote:We probably owe them for 1999, it must be said!

Agreed - Celtic pact. If Wales need 100 points I'd suggest we let them score at will. We can make it look convincing by just playing Finn Russell and Mark Bennett in the centres, and say we're building for the future, in a galaxy far far away.....

Let's not stop there, FES. The team for Mission Capitulate should surely be:

1. Allan
2. Ford
3. Low
4. Gilchrist
5. Kellock (returning from injury specially)
6. Wilson (specialist blindside)
7. Grant
8. My Senile and Mildly Racist Uncle Dougie

9. Hidalgo-Clyne
10. Leonard
11. Cuthbert
12. Bennett
13. Russell
14. R. Vernon
15. Jackson

Mission accomplished.

No no no!

1 Bruce Douglas
2 Ross Ford
3 Low
4 Parker
5 Ryder
6 Hamilton
7 Hogg
8 Wilson

9 Do a mauro bergamassco, Schlong
10 Wight
11 Cuthbert
12 NDL
13 Vernon
14 Jones
15 Jackson

SJ "We want to see what these kids got. And myself, I'll be coming off the bench to see what that saddle's like"

Wales 132 - Scotland 3 (Sympathy points)

Nematode wrote:No no no!

1 Bruce Douglas
2 Ross Ford
3 Low
4 Parker
5 Ryder
6 Hamilton
7 Hogg
8 Wilson

9 Do a mauro bergamassco, Schlong
10 Wight
11 Cuthbert
12 NDL
13 Vernon
14 Jones
15 Jackson

SJ "We want to see what these kids got. And myself, I'll be coming off the bench to see what that saddle's like"

Wales 132 - Scotland 3 (Sympathy points)

Uncle Dougie's going to be upset by that. I've told him that the shirt is his.

George Carlin wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

IanBru wrote:We probably owe them for 1999, it must be said!

Agreed - Celtic pact. If Wales need 100 points I'd suggest we let them score at will. We can make it look convincing by just playing Finn Russell and Mark Bennett in the centres, and say we're building for the future, in a galaxy far far away.....

Let's not stop there, FES. The team for Mission Capitulate should surely be:

1. Allan
2. Ford
3. Low
4. Gilchrist
5. Kellock (returning from injury specially)
6. Wilson (specialist blindside)
7. Grant
8. My Senile and Mildly Racist Uncle Dougie

9. Hidalgo-Clyne
10. Leonard
11. Cuthbert
12. Bennett
13. Russell
14. R. Vernon
15. Jackson

Mission accomplished.

How dare you.

I would just play all the SQ MFLs (except Scott) - that should complete the 100 point capitulation quite easily - by 60 mins tbh   

We have 15 SQ MFLs??

What that would look like:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Cross 4.Gilchrist 5.MacAlpine 6.Grant 7.Rennie 8.Denton 9.Laidlaw 10.Tonks 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Fife 14.Brown 15.Cuthbert

I think we can all agree that side would thrash Wales.

Cuthbert, Fyfe, Brown, De Luca, ? , Laidlaw, Tonks, Denton, ? Grant, Gilchrist, Cox, ?, Ford, ? Jeez fES this is tough. You really are the Luvviebokke now !

However any int. side with both De Luca and Ford in the same 15 is bound to get a tanking !

funnyExiledScot wrote:What that would look like:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Cross 4.Gilchrist 5.MacAlpine 6.Grant 7.Rennie 8.Denton 9.Laidlaw 10.Tonks 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Fife 14.Brown 15.Cuthbert

I think we can all agree that side would thrash Wales.

Where is your star loser in all this - Knock-on Nick De Luca ?

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:What that would look like:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Cross 4.Gilchrist 5.MacAlpine 6.Grant 7.Rennie 8.Denton 9.Laidlaw 10.Tonks 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Fife 14.Brown 15.Cuthbert

I think we can all agree that side would thrash Wales.

Where is your star loser in all this - Knock-on Nick De Luca ?

Really tough to pick the biggest liability from that lot. ()

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:What that would look like:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Cross 4.Gilchrist 5.MacAlpine 6.Grant 7.Rennie 8.Denton 9.Laidlaw 10.Tonks 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Fife 14.Brown 15.Cuthbert

I think we can all agree that side would thrash Wales.

Where is your star loser in all this - Knock-on Nick De Luca ?

He's got a date with Al Kellock at the Convention For The Worst Scottish Rugby Players Of All Time.

  

Anyone got any ideas who'll captain Glasgow next year? It'll be too early for Jonny Gray I'd think. Possibly one of:

Strauss, Wilson, Fusaro, Lamont?

Carlin Isles? Carries the same sort of menace as Al Kellock at rucks, so there would be some sort of continuity there.

Come hither one and all and we shall drink our sorrows away...

Jesus, don't think I can stand to order the next one in. That loss punched me in the kidneys already soaked with alcohol.

If you had just taken heed of this thread all along you wouldn't have anything to feel surprised about. The wording is very clear too; even if look like we're going to win, we shall not. I did make clear exception of Italy too with the "last minute play" clause.

Maybe I am the GE (who looks to win the rugby comp on these boards) of Scottish rugby..

 I hope you at least put money on these losses. If you'd put money on at half time for a French loss you would have got decent enough odds.

I'm going to post something when tomorrow, when the taste of Toilet Duck and Vanish has left my mouth.

Gutted.

The French are a poor side right now but they have got some very good players, so credit to us for stopping them from playing.

Had the All Blacks scored the 2nd try they'd be congratulated for the play, it was wonderful skill from Scott and a good finish from Seymour.

Huget's try was a kick in the teeth, Weir just got over excited and forced the ball wide.  But he'll learn from that, he's only 22 and this is his 6th start? plus no other Scottish fly-half would have slotted the dg last week.  He may never be a Dan Carter but he's got the skill set to be a pretty effective Ronan O'Gara, and Ireland won plenty with him at 10.

Line out was good again, think we got a way with it a little at scrum-time and our tactical kicking was good for the first 50 minutes.  Thought Grant and Gray were the pick of the forwards, shame Beattie went off so early.  Disappointed by Brown, industrious as ever but can't remember any turnovers, would give my left nut to see Barclay involved next week.

Overall, I'm actually pretty encouraged by this 6 Nations.  We've not played particularly well but we've shown that there's foundations for a handy side.  Exciting young back-line and will improve with Visser and Maitland back on the wings, decent pack but would be improved if a moron isn't selecting back-row. Beginning to get pretty excited about the prospect of Cotter.

Our goal over next 15 months is to put a team together that'll beat Samoa, so needs to be well disciplined, good at set-piece and tactically smart.

I thought Richie Gray was outstanding.

Ineffable wrote:If you had just taken heed of this thread all along you wouldn't have anything to feel surprised about. The wording is very clear too; even if look like we're going to win, we shall not. I did make clear exception of Italy too with the "last minute play" clause.

Maybe I am the GE (who looks to win the rugby comp on these boards) of Scottish rugby..

You sir, are a genius. And nobody can deny that you called it. Bang on.

I'm sorry but I do find myself laughing (or at least smiling) at Duncan Weir.  He reminds me of the little playschool bullies that inhabited most schooling days of most people's early schooling memories.  He's stocky, he has the little rascal haircut... he probably stole other kids sandwiches and ducked a few heads in his day!

No, seriously, I do laugh at how animated in the chat department he is when the players get into discussions.  The tall guys are doing some talking and the little lad is looking up at them with his wide-eyed-with-wonder young head on his shoulders...giving his tongue a lot of business too.  He loves being part of the mix.  He brings a real infectious enthusiasm to the Scottish set-up

I really rate Weir.

My grandmother's maiden name was Weir. Matce its just that. But he seems to a robustness and confidence that you don't get from many scots half's.

He reminds me of one of those small yappy dogs who doesn't realise when he's barking at a pit bull or a doberman.

IanBru wrote:I'm going to post something when tomorrow, when the taste of Toilet Duck and Vanish has left my mouth.

The lemon one is very moreish. Don't go near pine though. I'm trying to think of a tree pun here but I'm struggling. Yew wouldn't believe how hard it is.

Safe to say the furore about Hogg's try has been overdone. Few WUMs coming out of the woodwork. It's mulch ado about nothing in my eyes. Sure at least Johnston will be leaving after the championship. Scotland really have gone to seed this season. Cotter will turn things round and I'm not going out on a limb saying that either. I'm really knot joking. He'll can do a Schmidt for you lot. Think of how bad we were last season. Ah! Those halycon days under Kidney. Dreadful stuff. Secretfly and I could opine on that subject all day long.

Nailed it.

Yep I agree, I think most Scots have maintained all this 6N that things will improve after the summer!

reallybored wrote:Gutted.

The French are a poor side right now but they have got some very good players, so credit to us for stopping them from playing.

Had the All Blacks scored the 2nd try they'd be congratulated for the play, it was wonderful skill from Scott and a good finish from Seymour.

Huget's try was a kick in the teeth, Weir just got over excited and forced the ball wide.  But he'll learn from that, he's only 22 and this is his 6th start? plus no other Scottish fly-half would have slotted the dg last week.  He may never be a Dan Carter but he's got the skill set to be a pretty effective Ronan O'Gara, and Ireland won plenty with him at 10.

Line out was good again, think we got a way with it a little at scrum-time and our tactical kicking was good for the first 50 minutes.  Thought Grant and Gray were the pick of the forwards, shame Beattie went off so early.  Disappointed by Brown, industrious as ever but can't remember any turnovers, would give my left nut to see Barclay involved next week.

Overall, I'm actually pretty encouraged by this 6 Nations.  We've not played particularly well but we've shown that there's foundations for a handy side.  Exciting young back-line and will improve with Visser and Maitland back on the wings, decent pack but would be improved if a moron isn't selecting back-row. Beginning to get pretty excited about the prospect of Cotter.

Our goal over next 15 months is to put a team together that'll beat Samoa, so needs to be well disciplined, good at set-piece and tactically smart.

That's our problem, we have to be more ambitious. We have a good, not amazing, set of young players however this group have been "young players" for too long now, most of them broke through during the season of the last World cup (Hogg, Weir, Scott, Dunbar, Wilson, Fusaro, Harley, etc.)and so should have four years of professional experience under their belts by then, they should not be a "work in progress" they should be nearing their peak. We will have, arguably, the best coach in Europe by then and so there is no excuse. We simply cannot put four years worth of rugby down to one game, we need to set ourselves a target of winning the group and reaching the semi-finals, and the minimum should be reaching the quarters, should we not do so it will mean twelve years without reaching the knockout stages of the World cup: that should be crisis point; should we lose to Samoa even our traditional excuses will not wash. By that I mean the "useless governing body" and "small player base" excuses because Samoa suffers from these issues far more than we do.

But the SRU have explicitly stated that our aim is to win the world cup, can't get more ambitious than that!

It's amazing watching the difference in refereeing between poite today and the ref yesterday - if Pollock was refereeing today's game there would have been 18 penalties already!

My thoughts exactly RDW.

His ruck interpretation is completely different - positively laissez faire!

So Bruell block Davis and its good sheparding. Unlike the cynical cheating that we displayed at Murrayfield yesterday...

I had the feeling yesterday that the three points we gave up right at the start of the game would be important and unfortunately it proved to be the case, another mucked up kick off and Laidlaw should have cleared the ball away. Apart from Weir's miss pass mistake I think we lost that game through a lack of leadership/captaincy from Brown and to an extent Laidlaw, when our maul was advancing near halftime Laidlaw should have kept the forwards going and, hopefully, milked a kickable penalty instead of passing it out to Weir. Then Brown made a serious error on both kicks at goal allowing Laidlaw and Weir to make attempts that were beyond their normal kicking range, either Hogg should have taken the kicks or they should have been kicked to the corner. If we had shown some level heads on these decisions then Swinson's rank daftness at the end probably wouldn't have cost us the game.

We've got Jerome Garces for the Wales match, so that should be much better.

I'd also much rather play a Wales side that's just been beaten too. The other thing to say is that looking at that complete England performance, just shows how far away from that kind of consistency we are.

Conversely, I am absolutely mad that we have a coach who does not pick the best players in the best positions. Every one of that England team had a job that suited them, they knew what their role was and they did it well.

It's been a right barmy 6ns this year

George Carlin wrote:

Conversely, I am absolutely mad that we have a coach who does not pick the best players in the best positions. Every one of that England team had a job that suited them, they knew what their role was and they did it well.

Yup - you can argue that Lancaster could play a different side / style - Cipriani for example but everyone is well drilled without having all spontaneity drilled out of them and no square pegs in round holes

What are people thinking about the Wales game? They're apparently missing HP, possibly Webb too. If they can't win the competition, will there still be that intensity? We know we won't win so we have consistent, match-by-match focus. But surely if you are aiming to win 6N and then have one game where you know you can't win the competition, will you want to bounce back?

Could go either way. Will their heads drop or will they be hurting and want to put it right? Who knows