Scotland Fans' 2014 6N of hell Post-mortem

First topic message reminder :

EDIT March 18th post-Scotland's capitulation to Wales

So, it's the end of the six nations. I have to say the intention of this early prediction thread was to calm all suppositions that Scotland might be anywhere near a threat this year. I have maintained that things look better with Cotter coming in (and hopefully not having to resort to 5th/6th choice wings, though that couldn't have been predicted).

Someone pointed out that in this last game if Wales had received the red card the scoreline would not have been the same in reverse. In fact I would be very worried that we still would have lost. To me it feels like it was an excuse to put the heads down/give Johnson the farewell he deserves.

Personally, I am lost for words. Not really sure where to go from here.

Anyone?

***

EDIT March 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to France.

Come hither one and all and we shall drink our sorrows away...

***
EDIT February 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to England & Ireland

I was right all along.

***

I got this in early because I did not want to see anybody from any nation suggest for any minute that Scotland has a chance of doing anything other than :

a) Cleaning their dirties in a smeg [White Wash]
b) Making lots of soup this winter [wooden spoon]
c) Scraping a win against Italy , in the dying seconds after a urine poor performance , which still might result in "b)" anyway.

No they did not beat Ireland.  
No they did not beat England.
No they did not beat France.  
No they did not beat Wales.  

They might *look* like they are going to win to any outsiders no privy to the Scotland set up, but I guarantee you no sensible Scottish fan will be expecting anything but a, b & c this season.

Why?

• We have an interim coach (for over a year!!!)who is more worried about what he says on camera than apparently coaching a sensible game plan
  
• Our breakdown is awful
  
• We have the psychological hardness of my nan - you don't know my nan but that's not good
  
• Our best players are either never played in position, not allowed to play in the XXIII at all, or are just awful at the moment. Not making the injury excuse because frankly it doesn't apply with exception of 2 key players that might be back in time. Happens in every squad
  
• etc, etc (feel free to add to this list)
  

So look, when we are compiling our 6N predictions this year, can we just for once all agree on something?

1. AN Other
2. AN Other
3. AN Other
4. AN Other
5. Maybe Scotland
6. Probably Scotland

Anyone mentions "dark horses" and "Scotland" in the same sentence without a negation clause in there somewhere (and you KNOW what I mean) I am getting our the knuckle dusters    

Believe me, the facts are not your friend. It's why the White Paper contains so few.

Just watch Braveheart again, it's still the most compelling case for independence out there.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Believe me, the facts are not your friend. It's why the White Paper contains so few.

Just watch Braveheart again, it's still the most compelling case for independence out there.

Oh dear, sad that you imagine folk that think indy is the right answer must be emotionally motivated  

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Believe me, the facts are not your friend. It's why the White Paper contains so few.

Just watch Braveheart again, it's still the most compelling case for independence out there.

Oh dear, sad that you imagine folk that think indy is the right answer must be emotionally motivated  

I don't think that. I had hoped my comment would have been taken with a pinch of salt - the emoticon was a clue.....

Not worth losing your sense of humour over this my old friend.

You will incur the wrath of the mods with all this political argy bargy!

Not speaking as a mod, but as a Scot who has been thoroughly disappointed with the nationalism debate thus far (too much poo flinging, not enough measured debate and verifiable fact), please can we stick to the larger and even slower moving target of the collective clown car that is the SRU.

Mind you, something larger and slower than Alex Salmond is quite hard to find. You'd need to look at a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier. Or Jack Cuthbert.

Can I offer some cheer, if it doesn't sound too condescending?

1. Your coaches are carp, no idea how Cotter will do at international level, but he'll be a massive improvement.

2. Injuries may have increased your depth a bit. You're probably more affected by injuries than most with a smaller player pool, so that's probably important, also if people DO stay fit, there's clearly some excellent players.

3. The pro teams aren't doing badly I think, so it shouldn't be the case that confidence is shot.

I know the Indy debate is none of my business, but here's me quickly sticking my nose in...I hope you stay with us, but if you don't can I please, please join you. I couldn't stand living in a country dominated by Home Counties financiers.   

Hood83 wrote:Can I offer some cheer, if it doesn't sound too condescending?

1. Your coaches are carp, no idea how Cotter will do at international level, but he'll be a massive improvement.

2. Injuries may have increased your depth a bit. You're probably more affected by injuries than most with a smaller player pool, so that's probably important, also if people DO stay fit, there's clearly some excellent players.

3. The pro teams aren't doing badly I think, so it shouldn't be the case that confidence is shot.

I know the Indy debate is none of my business, but here's me quickly sticking my nose in...I hope you stay with us, but if you don't can I please, please join you. I couldn't stand living in a country dominated by Home Counties financiers.   

Hoodie,for 1-3 thank you. I agree with most of what you say. Time will tell, though.
As regards the rest, you already do.

I know we are not allowed to talk about independence, but the comparisons with the SRU are quite funny.

Imagine if Johnno was in charge of either the yes or the no campaign! You'd still get absolutely no sense out of either side!

In fact, Johnno could argue both for and against and things would make the same amount of sense

"we'll use the pound"
"we're no allowed the pound"

"we'll be one of the richest countries in the world"
"we'll be one of the most skint countries in the world"

"We'll get into Europe no problem"
"We'll no get into Europe"

"We'll pick Kelly Brown as captain"
"We'll no pick Kelly Brown as Captain"

"We'll play above the ground"
"We'll no play above the ground"

"My da is bigger than your da"
"My da is bigger than your da"

I've just seen the goal kicking stats for goal kickers in this year's 6N, and it just shows how much Laidlaw's kicking declined in this tournament.

He sits bottom of the kicker stats with a 53% success rate.  In his defence slightly, he does have the highest 'difficulty rating' out of all the kickers (whatever that is), but 53% really is a shocking return for a player who is usually so reliable with % in the high 80s.

That's shocking.

He's normally really quite reliable, especially with the touchline conversion level of difficulty kicks.

His major flaw though is distance. He just doesn't have the power or accuracy for anything mildly over 40m.

With his service poor, his goal-kicking disappointing, why is he being given the royal treatment and walking in, it appears, to Number 9?

I'd have liked to have seen Weir - who is a very good goal kicker - attempt some kicks in the future and maybe for Hogg to get more practice in at Glasgow in professional games. We forever hear how he like to practice kicking, but why bother if you are not kicking for Scotland or getting the opportunity at Glasgow??

tigertattie wrote:I know we are not allowed to talk about [b]independence, but[...][/b]

  

Please no...

Laidlaws kicks were on the edge of his range.  Often from out wide, and remember the two games at Nematodes house wer ein the mud, making the place foot slide about

tigertattie wrote:Laidlaws kicks were on the edge of his range.  Often from out wide, and remember the two games at Nematodes house wer ein the mud, making the place foot slide about

That is true, but I also remember several 'easy' kicks that he missed.

Nematode wrote:

tigertattie wrote:I know we are not allowed to talk about [b]independence, but[...][/b]

  

Please no...

i agree with the no too  

Laidlaw missed a few he really should have got but also took some that would have been better put to touch

Although he was captain/vice-captain and should have said either 'This is too risky' or given Weir or Hogg the shot. He should be professional enough to be able to say that.

This was always a great strength of Chris Paterson, knowing when to kick to the corner or allowing Parks to have a crack.

Laidlaw had a poor 6 Nations, and I suspect that is in part the reason for him being allowed this break. In any event, Solomons seems keen to use Hart, Kennedy and Hidalgo-Clyne, even picking all three in his match-day 23 for Saturday!

What is it with coaches employed by the SRU?

Toonie keeps picking 9's on the wing

SJ has his facination with having three 8's in the backrow

Now Gramps wants three 9's on the field!

He used H-C at centre, and to be fair he looked bright. His future though s at 9 in my opinion.

Scotland win the Bowl at the Hong Kong 7s, Mark Bennett second in the try scoring table for the tournament with 5 and didn't get injured which is an improvement on the last time he was called up.

Kennedy looked good against Treviso - I'd forgotton what fast service looked like.

Kennedy looked good against Treviso - I'd forgotton what fast service looked like.

The guys on the Edinburgh thread saying he didn't have a good game?

To be fair, I only saw the last 20 minutes.

George Carlin wrote:Kennedy looked good against Treviso - I'd forgotton what fast service looked like.

Well, you should watch Edinburgh more often......

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Kennedy looked good against Treviso - I'd forgotton what fast service looked like.

Well, you should watch Edinburgh more often......

when Laidlaw ain't playing

The real criticism of Kennedy in that last game was his woeful attempt at stopping Geraldhini for the first Treviso try. I realise there's a size mismatch there, but it really was a limp effort.

The reason I rate both Kennedy and Hidalgo-Clyne as highly as I do isn't just about their service though, but equally because they are fast and offer a threat behind the ruck. Danny Care is a great example of how a scrum half can produce match defining contributions by keeping the tempo high and using acceleration and pace from the base of the ruck. We've missed that under Laidlaw (who has other strengths), and I think the two Edinburgh young guns have big futures if they can stick at it. Laidlaw moving to Glaws works well in that respect.

you cannot under-estimate the impace of a fast sniping scrum half.

If you play a slow service, non-sniping 9 like laidlaw, the other team have time to set their defence.  They don't even need to worry about defending the fringes of the ruck. They can spread out wider and be up in a defensive line quicker.

If you play for example, a mad weegie fi fiji, then the defence has to stay tighter at the ruck in case the 9 makes a dash for it. It also keeps the defence guessing as they don't know what the scrum half is going to do with the ball!

tigertattie wrote:you cannot under-estimate the impace of a fast sniping scrum half.

If you play a slow service, non-sniping 9 like laidlaw, the other time have time to set their defence.  They don't even need to worry about defending the fringes of the ruck. They can spread out wider and be up in a defensive line quicker.

If you play for example, a mad weegie fi fiji, then the defence has to stay tighter at the ruck in case the 9 makes a dash for it. It also keeps the defence guessing as they don't know what the scrum half is going to do with the ball!

The problem with Matawalu is neither does his team mates, the coaches or spectators!  

RDW_Scotland wrote:

tigertattie wrote:you cannot under-estimate the impace of a fast sniping scrum half.

If you play a slow service, non-sniping 9 like laidlaw, the other time have time to set their defence.  They don't even need to worry about defending the fringes of the ruck. They can spread out wider and be up in a defensive line quicker.

If you play for example, a mad weegie fi fiji, then the defence has to stay tighter at the ruck in case the 9 makes a dash for it. It also keeps the defence guessing as they don't know what the scrum half is going to do with the ball!

The problem with Matawalu is neither does his team mates, the coaches or spectators!  

I have my doubts about whether he know's what he's going to do either.

Matawalu is the the largest single factor for me to watch the great unwashed on tele. When he gets the ball and sets off, I actually start to giggle like a wee school boy!

He picks up the ball, his whole team stop what they are doing. No one makes any runs. No one acts as dummy runner. They all just stand there with a look of shock on thier faces and wait to see what he is going to come up with.

BTW if Scotland does go Indy, can we have your scotch making business?

englandglory4ever wrote:BTW if Scotland does go Indy, can we have your scotch making business?

You mean Diageo's and Pernod Ricard's Scotch making business? Buy the shares and they're yours.

englandglory4ever wrote:BTW if Scotland does go Indy, can we have your scotch making business?

Feic off

And only daft septics call it 'scotch'

funnyExiledScot wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:BTW if Scotland does go Indy, can we have your scotch making business?

You mean Diageo's and Pernod Ricard's Scotch making business? Buy the shares and they're yours.

Diageo is English and Pernod Ricard (who took over Allied distillers) is French

so you already have one and the other will be easy to conqour based on France's past history

tigertattie wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:BTW if Scotland does go Indy, can we have your scotch making business?

You mean Diageo's and Pernod Ricard's Scotch making business? Buy the shares and they're yours.

Diageo is English and Pernod Ricard (who took over Allied distillers) is French

so you already have one and the other will be easy to conqour based on France's past history

Or rather British.....for now....

True.

but bye bye to them if independence goes through!

Oh wait

Run!!!! here come RDW.......................

 

No point in running Tattie - RDW is a winger.....

It was inevitable that the post-mortem thread would ultimately turn to whisky. I'm certainly sure I'd drink less if I supported more successful sports teams. I've already acquired a couple of bottles of real ale in anticipation of watching Edinburgh tomorrow evening!

funnyExiledScot wrote:No point in running Tattie - RDW is a slow, weak, unfit winger.....

More realistic!   

funnyExiledScot wrote:No point in running Tattie - RDW is a winger.....

It was inevitable that the post-mortem thread would ultimately turn to whisky. I'm certainly sure I'd drink less if I supported more successful sports teams. I've already acquired a couple of bottles of real ale in anticipation of watching Edinburgh tomorrow evening!

I'm a prop/lock/No.8

I could easily outrun RDW!!!

over 10 yards..........

downhill............

from here to the ice-cream van!

Are you Byron McGuigan??

If so I apologise for everything I've said about you!

tigertattie wrote:

I'm a prop/lock/No.8

Got to love amateur rugby!   

RDW_Scotland wrote:

tigertattie wrote:

I'm a prop/lock/No.8

Got to love amateur rugby!   

That's not a fair assumption. Tattie could actually be Andrew Sheridan, who has played each of those positions as a professional rugby player, or, perhaps more likely, he plays for a side with a coach who reads nothing but the Scott Johnson coaching manual (a book Alan Solomons appears to have borrowed sadly), and Tattie is being played in just about every position other than the one in which he specialises.

....or he's a really tall prop, or short fat 2nd row.

All of the above?

I like to see that I was a versitile player. Able to turn my hand at what ever position I played. I had the skill set of Sergio Parrisse and the strength of Census Johnson.

In actual fact though I was played wherever there was a need because different boys would turn up on different weeks.  At 6ft 3 I'm too tall to be a prop.  At 18stone (back when I played) I was too chunky to be lifted in the lineout at 2nd row. Talking 20 plus seconds to run 100m I was too slow to play Number 8.  I was a jack of all trades, master of none.

I will say this though. I played a half of rugby at 12 (Matt Scott 12) and I scored a hat-trick. Ok, we were 60 plus points up when I went on in the 2nd half, but hey, a hat-trick is a hat-trick!

If only Scott Johnson was coach of Scotland when I played, the fact that I had no real position would have assured me a place inthe national team.  In fact, he'd have made me kicker too!

Given your aforementioned speed over the 100m, you're confortably faster than Sean Lamont, so I reckon the wing is for you. That hat-trick is also more tries than most Scotland backs combined over the last decade.....

See. thats where I was going wrong! I was scoring tries!