Floyd Vacates At Welter To Avoid Manny

First topic message reminder :

Here's Floyd's comment:

"Floyd Mayweather is at the level now he can come out with his own world championship belt...I'm 45 and 0 throughout my professional career, and like I always said before, and I'ma say it again; you put 'em in front of me, I'll beat 'em...you gotta realize this, everybody kept talking about the title, he's mandatory; he can have the belt. A belt doesn't make me,"

So if Marquez happeneds now it would be classed as what? He's just splattered pacman and lost a close points decision to Bradley

For starters it would actually be a welterweight fight instead of catchweight affair that Mayweather broke. Marquez would have had a few fights and credentials at the weight.

So would you class it as a great win and not against someone past there best?

So he waits a few years until Marquez is older and more shopworn then face him, now that is hilarious.

Its hilarious to you because you havent a breeze outside your Ring magazine ratings and boxrec. A fraud who started watching boxing a few years ago, dicovered boxrec so he could look up results and rankings and then began to believe he actually knew anything about the sport.

Diamond in the rough wrote:So would you class it as a great win and not against someone past there best?

No I wouldnt class it as a great win but its better than dragging him up from a lower weight under the pretense of a catchweight when he had never fought in that division before. If he had beaten Marquez right after Marquez had knocked out Pacquiao surely you couldnt deny it would look a whole lot better. But then again he might have looked a bit too dangerous after that for Mayweathers liking.

I'm not sure where you're getting that margarito was a top welterweight - same category as you put some of Floyds wins really - lost every time he stepped up except Cotto 1 so I'm not sure why you think he was some sort of avoided wrecking ball. He wasn't - but you want him to be so he can be another stick to beat Mayweather with. Listen, I know you don't like him, but seriously you'll need better arguments than pulling apart his opposition which is actually much better than the majority of other boxers around today.

Who cares about the majority of boxers around today. People make out hes one of the best in history. You are blind if cant see that hes cherrypicked his welterweight career something spectaculr. Pulling out a lone Margarito name means jack all. Its when you add everything together its starts to look pretty blatant to all but the excuse makers. You think claiming Mosley was past it when he fought Mayweather is "nitpicking" or asking him to fight Martinez or Golovkin is asking him to fight Klitschko FFS.

The fact you're using an acronym is irritating, anyway - I'll continue to humour you. If you don't have Mayweather in a top 20 then you're kidding yourself. I'm not in any way shape or form denying he has somewhat cherry picked his opponents, but to use them in the manner you have is dowright disrespectful. When should he have fought Mosely? Most would say in 2006/7 if we're applying your logic - at that time he only had De La Hoya as a win between losses to Wright and Forrest while working his way back up while Mayweather was taking on De La Hoya, Baldomir and Judah. He then retired after Hatton. I'm not saying Mosely wasn't past it, but realistically they weren't available to each other around the period they should have fought.

Why do you seem to think Mosely was some sort of wrecking ball Mayweather avoided until the time was right? He was nothing of the sort. I honestly think Mosely is actually quite overrated at WW to be honest. If you want to then say about his early career, he wouldn't have fought Mayweather in 2001/2 because he was a couple of weight classes higher.

The only fight I can see that he didn't take when he should have was Pacquiao - which isn't just because he was "scared" like how you're making out.

You're also pulling out Marquez but was he forced to fight the then welterweight Mayweather against his will? Further showings at the weight would suggest that although a jump he perhaps wasn't prepared for properly, wasn't exactly an easy fight was it? Its people like you using that argument that detract from an otherwise fine win.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:The only fight I can see that he didn't take when he should have was Pacquiao - which isn't just because he was "scared" like how you're making out.

Cotto @ 147?
PW?

Its pretty simple, Mayweather didnt test himself against the toughest welterweights when it matters. No amount of squirming will change this for you. He had the division there with Mosley, Cotto, Margarito, Pacquiao, Williams and he stood by. That was the time start boxing those challengers and become a top welterweight. He didnt. He still isnt doing it. He cherry picked his way through and you and a load of other have swallowed all the excuses and regurgitate them back out. You reward him for taking the path of lesser resistance and blame others for pointing it out to you. Insulting Mayweather? Its insulting all the great fighters who fought and took on the toughest challenges to applaud and defend Mayweathers attitude.

As for ranking fighters, I dont really care. Pointless. Put him wherever makes you happy. It doesnt change the way he goes about his career or change the fact he doesnt test himself against the toughest challenges.

catchweight wrote:

Diamond in the rough wrote:So would you class it as a great win and not against someone past there best?

No I wouldnt class it as a great win but its better than dragging him up from a lower weight under the pretense of a catchweight when he had never fought in that division before. If he had beaten Marquez right after Marquez had knocked out Pacquiao surely you couldnt deny it would look a whole lot better. But then again he might have looked a bit too dangerous after that for Mayweathers liking.

So you mean it would be the exact same as Mosley Floyd fought him after his best win in years against marg?

Who was of course old and past it

JabMachineMK2 wrote:The fact you're using an acronym is irritating, anyway - I'll continue to humour you. If you don't have Mayweather in a top 20 then you're kidding yourself. I'm not in any way shape or form denying he has somewhat cherry picked his opponents, but to use them in the manner you have is dowright disrespectful. When should he have fought Mosely? Most would say in 2006/7 if we're applying your logic - at that time he only had De La Hoya as a win between losses to Wright and Forrest while working his way back up while Mayweather was taking on De La Hoya, Baldomir and Judah. He then retired after Hatton. I'm not saying Mosely wasn't past it, but realistically they weren't available to each other around the period they should have fought.

Why do you seem to think Mosely was some sort of wrecking ball Mayweather avoided until the time was right? He was nothing of the sort. I honestly think Mosely is actually quite overrated at WW to be honest. If you want to then say about his early career, he wouldn't have fought Mayweather in 2001/2 because he was a couple of weight classes higher.

The only fight I can see that he didn't take when he should have was Pacquiao - which isn't just because he was "scared" like how you're making out.

You're also pulling out Marquez but was he forced to fight the then welterweight Mayweather against his will? Further showings at the weight would suggest that although a jump he perhaps wasn't prepared for properly, wasn't exactly an easy fight was it? Its people like you using that argument that detract from an otherwise fine win.

Totally agree!

Diamond in the rough wrote:

catchweight wrote:

Diamond in the rough wrote:So would you class it as a great win and not against someone past there best?

No I wouldnt class it as a great win but its better than dragging him up from a lower weight under the pretense of a catchweight when he had never fought in that division before. If he had beaten Marquez right after Marquez had knocked out Pacquiao surely you couldnt deny it would look a whole lot better. But then again he might have looked a bit too dangerous after that for Mayweathers liking.

So you mean it would be the exact same as Mosley Floyd fought him after his best win in years against marg?

Who was of  course old and past it

No you are right, Mosley was at his best ever! Fresh as a daisy and never better!

Of course beating Marquez when he was a lightweight and welching on a catchweight is far better than beating Marquez as a welterweight when he had beaten Pacquiao.

Explain this, why didnt Mayweather just go to welterweight and beat Pacquaio, Cotto, Margarito, Williams, Bradley etc and cement himself as a proper champion in the division instead of relying on his fans to make excuses for all of these fights? We wouldnt even be having this argument.

Its easy to forgive one opponent here or there. When you miss out on an entire division of challenges and start taking on Ortiz, Geurrero, Khan type fighters that get the arse hyped out of them it becomes a little harder to excuse away.

Its as plain as the nose on Frochs face that Mayweather cherry picks so why the endless excuses?

Im not the bad guy here. Im the one who wants to see him in against the toughest opponents and the best fights.

I'm not making any excuses I agree he's cherry picked some opponents but he's not pick Mosley! but people would've said why didn't Floyd fight Mosley after he beat marg which he did! Why has Bradley come into it he's just turned WW recently when should he have fought him? And T what year and stage the other fighters

You could go through everyone's career including mannys and picked atleast 5 cherry pick fights

Diamond in the rough wrote:I'm not making any excuses I agree he's cherry picked some opponents but he's not pick Mosley! but people would've said why didn't Floyd fight Mosley after he beat marg which he did! Why has Bradley come into it he's just turned WW recently when should he have fought him? And T what year and stage the other fighters

The reason he went after Mosley at all was because he knew full well Mosley was past it and hadnt fought in ages. If he had decided to take on Mosley and then had also taken on Cotto when he was an unbeaten welterweight and Margarito then you could excuse it but he didnt do that. He waited to the optimum time to fight Mosley and no amount excuses will change the fact that Mosley was past it when he fought Mayweather whether you think he should have fought him or not.

Isnt Mayweather in need of an opponent now? Bradley isnt being considered despite coming off a huge win. Pacquiao isnt being considered despite getting back in the mix (even as a mandatory Mayweather would rather vacate). Lara isnt being considered despite coming off a huge win. Why is Khan even being considered never mind favourite to be his next opponent? He is still cherry picking as of this moment.

There was a decent welterweight division (although still not up there with the previous decades) there that Mayweather could have tested himself against but he didnt and for each and every single fight that he took on or didnt take on there are excuses poured out until you are left with enough to fill a book. Its not a one off, or a two off. It happens too often to be excused away all the time.

When you boil it down to its basic form the point Im making is that Mayweather just hasnt taken on the toughest challenges available. He hasnt bossed the welterweight division. Hes let big challenges slide by. Cotto is a hole in his welterweight record. Pacquiao is a crater. There are others. This should be acknowledged and Mayweather deserves criticism for it rather than a plethora of excuses and defences. As a fan of boxing I like to see the best fights and the best fighters take on the hardest fights. Not for many years has Mayweather has done this and Im not a fan of it.

I agree about khan even though I give khan a chance due to styles but it's still a joke of a fight! The rest I don't really agree much with though

Dont fancy a pacman fight any more. I believe it would be a walk in the park for floyd now. Bradley is the one I want to see him fight and is the one that has earned it.

I see where catchweight is coming from but before the alverez fight it was the one that most people were calling for. In hindsight it was an easy nights work but he did fight the one popular demand called for.

Catchweight

I have no inclination to prove myself to you but I do find your constant sniping to be quite humorous. Instead of being such a negative grouch try responding to the point I made, may make you appear less bitter than you are.

Let's be honest you'd find a way to downplay all of Mayweathers opponent while at the same time placing those he didn't find on a pedastal.

Catchweight is the worst poster I have ever seen.

bet its lonely at his place this christmas

I'm pretty sure he's d4

D4 despite being a repetitive tool was at least an amiable tool and never once resorted to personal attacks nor was he stuck in the past. Catchy is definitely an alias but of whom I have no idea.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:The fact you're using an acronym is irritating, anyway - I'll continue to humour you.

At what point do you think you earned the right to be so patronising?

Lets get back to reality here.

He offered Mosley a fight years ago but somebody needed to take time out because they had a poorly tooth and it wasn't Mayweather. He can hardly be blamed for the other guy turning down the fight, watch the end of the Vargas rematch for the explanation coming out of the horses mouth.

As for Margarito and Williams, well they're no better than the Guerreros and Hattons of this world so I don't think they add much or offered any greater risk. It just so happens he didn't fight them as he was busy fighting the divisions top two in Judah and Baldomir, easy to change history to make out certain challenges were considered riskier when they were not.

I have said from the start that he should have fought Pacquiao, Tzuyu and a younger Cotto, that I have no problem with but throwing names like Williams and Margarito out there would be viewed similarly as his actual opposition.

Of the current Lara, Garcia and Bradley are the three fights i'd like to see, as it stands Golovkin and Martinez are non starters. They need to chase him by moving down not the other way round, Leonard didn't chase Pryor nor did Hagler chase McCallum. It's not excusing the Khan fight but no matter who he faces and beats, certain posters on here will suddenly make a U-turn. They will say that Lara struggled against Molina, Angulo and Martirosyan, they will say that Bradley robbed Pacquiao and they will say that Garcia was too small and not that good anyway.

You have two opposing poles, those like Truss and Mobile who will excuse anything he does and turn any win into a great one. Then in contrast you have Catchweight and Haz who say he's fought nobody, cherry picked his whole career and doesn't compare to the bygone eras. Somewhere in the middle you have a fairly accurate truth, I want to see him face Lara and Bradley but when/if he wins I would rather not have to see endless posts making excuses why they weren't any good.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You have two opposing poles, those like Truss and Mobile who will excuse anything he does and turn any win into a great one. Then in contrast you have Catchweight and Haz who say he's fought nobody, cherry picked his whole career and doesn't compare to the bygone eras. Somewhere in the middle you have a fairly accurate truth, I want to see him face Lara and Bradley but when/if he wins I would rather not have to see endless posts making excuses why they weren't any good.

Sums the thread up for me.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:D4 despite being a repetitive tool was at least an amiable tool and never once resorted to personal attacks nor was he stuck in the past. Catchy is definitely an alias but of whom I have no idea.

Its Gordy

remember him? everyone is rubbish, its all skys fault for over hyping them.

this guy hates everyone and everything. he couldn't do a p4p top 15, but spent pages moaning about everyone elses. also spent 3 days moaning about Bernard Hopkins against murat, whilst openly admitting he never watched the fight, but heard on the web the ref was poor.

hes certainly not a boxing fan. the only time he praises a fighter is when it backs up his bashing of another one, or somebodies view.

Boxtthis wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:The fact you're using an acronym is irritating, anyway - I'll continue to humour you.

At what point do you think you earned the right to be so patronising?

The minute he used "ffs" instead of big boy words instantly placed me above him intellectually.

At what point did anyone ask your opinion on that particular part of my post? Did you not see i'd been banging my head against a brick wall?

[quote="Hammersmith harrier"]Lets get back to reality here.

He offered Mosley a fight years ago but somebody needed to take time out because they had a poorly tooth and it wasn't Mayweather. He can hardly be blamed for the other guy turning down the fight, watch the end of the Vargas rematch for the explanation coming out of the horses mouth.

As for Margarito and Williams, well they're no better than the Guerreros and Hattons of this world so I don't think they add much or offered any greater risk. It just so happens he didn't fight them as he was busy fighting the divisions top two in Judah and Baldomir, easy to change history to make out certain challenges were considered riskier when they were not.

I have said from the start that he should have fought Pacquiao, Tzuyu and a younger Cotto, that I have no problem with but throwing names like Williams and Margarito out there would be viewed similarly as his actual opposition.

Of the current Lara, Garcia and Bradley are the three fights i'd like to see, as it stands Golovkin and Martinez are non starters. They need to chase him by moving down not the other way round, Leonard didn't chase Pryor nor did Hagler chase McCallum. It's not excusing the Khan fight but no matter who he faces and beats, certain posters on here will suddenly make a U-turn. They will say that Lara struggled against Molina, Angulo and Martirosyan, they will say that Bradley robbed Pacquiao and they will say that Garcia was too small and not that good anyway.

You have two opposing poles, those like Truss and Mobile who will excuse anything he does and turn any win into a great one. Then in contrast you have Catchweight and Haz who say he's fought nobody, cherry picked his whole career and doesn't compare to the bygone eras. Somewhere in the middle you have a fairly accurate truth, I want to see him face Lara and Bradley but when/if he wins I would rather not have to see endless posts making excuses why they weren't any

100% agree people actually forgot baldomir was ranked number 1 rightly or wrongly he had most belts aswell

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Catchweight

I have no inclination to prove myself to you but I do find your constant sniping to be quite humorous. Instead of being such a negative grouch try responding to the point I made, may make you appear less bitter than you are.

Let's be honest you'd find a way to downplay all of Mayweathers opponent while at the same time placing those he didn't find on a pedastal.

I couldnt care less what you feel inclined to prove. Its bloody obvious you are fraud who comes on here armed with boxrec and ring rankings and usually after a few tedious posts with you thats what your argument gets stripped down to. You havent a clue but the funny thing is because you have boxrec and the ring handy there you believe you are a boxing know it all. A clueless internet geek who started watching boxing a few years ago, has never boxed or been anyway involved in the sport and now thinks his opinions are credible. Which is why you get ants in your pants when actual people that understand and cover the sport dont add up to you boxrec conclusions. Now answer your own question there and run along and look up where Marquez was ranked in the ring pound for pound list when he fought Mayweather like a good lad.

Lance wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:D4 despite being a repetitive tool was at least an amiable tool and never once resorted to personal attacks nor was he stuck in the past. Catchy is definitely an alias but of whom I have no idea.

Its Gordy

remember him? everyone is rubbish, its all skys fault for over hyping them.

this guy hates everyone and everything. he couldn't do a p4p top 15, but spent pages moaning about everyone elses. also spent 3 days moaning about Bernard Hopkins against murat, whilst openly admitting he never watched the fight, but heard on the web the ref was poor.

hes certainly not a boxing fan. the only time he praises a fighter is when it backs up his bashing of another one, or somebodies view.

Still being a cry baby because I offended your hero Hopkins honour I see. You know I almost believed you when you said you were at his packed out fight with Dawson.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Boxtthis wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:The fact you're using an acronym is irritating, anyway - I'll continue to humour you.

At what point do you think you earned the right to be so patronising?

The minute he used "ffs" instead of big boy words instantly placed me above him intellectually.

At what point did anyone ask your opinion on that particular part of my post? Did you not see i'd been banging my head against a brick wall?

Bang harder, something might stick.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Lets get back to reality here.

He offered Mosley a fight years ago but somebody needed to take time out because they had a poorly tooth and it wasn't Mayweather. He can hardly be blamed for the other guy turning down the fight, watch the end of the Vargas rematch for the explanation coming out of the horses mouth.

As for Margarito and Williams, well they're no better than the Guerreros and Hattons of this world so I don't think they add much or offered any greater risk. It just so happens he didn't fight them as he was busy fighting the divisions top two in Judah and Baldomir, easy to change history to make out certain challenges were considered riskier when they were not.

I have said from the start that he should have fought Pacquiao, Tzuyu and a younger Cotto, that I have no problem with but throwing names like Williams and Margarito out there would be viewed similarly as his actual opposition.

Of the current Lara, Garcia and Bradley are the three fights i'd like to see, as it stands Golovkin and Martinez are non starters. They need to chase him by moving down not the other way round, Leonard didn't chase Pryor nor did Hagler chase McCallum. It's not excusing the Khan fight but no matter who he faces and beats, certain posters on here will suddenly make a U-turn. They will say that Lara struggled against Molina, Angulo and Martirosyan, they will say that Bradley robbed Pacquiao and they will say that Garcia was too small and not that good anyway.

You have two opposing poles, those like Truss and Mobile who will excuse anything he does and turn any win into a great one. Then in contrast you have Catchweight and Haz who say he's fought nobody, cherry picked his whole career and doesn't compare to the bygone eras. Somewhere in the middle you have a fairly accurate truth, I want to see him face Lara and Bradley but when/if he wins I would rather not have to see endless posts making excuses why they weren't any good.

You call that getting back to reality?

Hilarious

Barking up the wrong tree there catchweight. HH has been on the boards since the old bbc days and its clear he knows a lot.

He knows jack sh1t outside of his boxrec and ring analysis. Its absolutely obvious. Everytime he falls back on the same old reliables and offers nothing worthwhile outside it. If I could be bothered I could look up boxrec all day and the ring magazine rankings and tell you where so and so was ranked and who he beat.

Seriously, CW, stop digging, you're not helping your case at all.....

One we have decided who does and doesn't know most about boxing can we deal with the really big issue of whose Dad is the hardest?

Yeah I forgot, its my fault that the moral highgrounders like the sophicates Lance and Jabmachine are allowed come along and stick their oar in but I shouldnt respond

FLoyd Mayweather Snr is the hardest Dad, his boxrec record is amazing.

This thread is the boards Christmas present to you Rowley. We know how much you love cleaning up slanging matches.

Yeah cheers for that. Suppose I should look on the bright side, Truss is on his Christmas holidays, could have been a whole lot worse if the Beefster was around.

Rowley wrote:Yeah cheers for that. Suppose I should look on the bright side, Truss is on his Christmas holidays, could have been a whole lot worse if the Beefster was around.

Thread would be at least twice as long.....

Doubt it, would have been locked long before that.

Remember how on the  BBC board the thread starter could self moderate his own threads.

The thread starter having the ability to delete posts that he deemed broke the BBC's rules.  

Truss loved that facility.  Back then he used to start 8 threads a day.

Strongback wrote:Remember how on the  BBC board the thread starter could self moderate his own threads.

The thread starter having the ability to delete posts that he deemed broke the BBC's rules.  

Truss loved that facility.  Back then he used to start 8 threads a day.

Lol you can tell Truss still pines for the facility now.

Whenever he writes a thread and someone disagrees with him he comes out with "Get off my thread" "I don't want you commenting on my thread".

It's like, hello Truss, do you not understand how an open forum works....??

Strongback wrote:Back then he used to start 8 threads a day.

And most were just the same recycled stuff over and over again.   

J.Benson II wrote:

Strongback wrote:Back then he used to start 8 threads a day.

And most were just the same recycled stuff over and over again.   

so what's changed?

In his defence we have not had a rolled like a drunk thread for a while. Ashamed to admit it but I miss them a bit.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

Boxtthis wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:The fact you're using an acronym is irritating, anyway - I'll continue to humour you.

At what point do you think you earned the right to be so patronising?

The minute he used "ffs" instead of big boy words instantly placed me above him intellectually.

Debatable.

J.Benson II wrote:

Strongback wrote:Back then he used to start 8 threads a day.

And most were just the same recycled stuff over and over again.   

His threads were just pages and pages of him agreeing with himself with a huge raft of deleted comments in between. Those were the days.