Floyd Vacates At Welter To Avoid Manny

First topic message reminder :

Here's Floyd's comment:

"Floyd Mayweather is at the level now he can come out with his own world championship belt...I'm 45 and 0 throughout my professional career, and like I always said before, and I'ma say it again; you put 'em in front of me, I'll beat 'em...you gotta realize this, everybody kept talking about the title, he's mandatory; he can have the belt. A belt doesn't make me,"

Both Floyd and Manny seemed to duck the fight 3-4 years ago. Manny wants it now because he is coming to the end of his career and wants a big payday. Thats how I see it anyway. I would like to see Pacman in with an actual WW before it happens though, him beating on Rios didnt really tell us anything about how much hes got left in the tank. Maybe rematch with Bradley. He should avoid the new super Marquez, win or lose hes never going to look good against that guy.

Garcia has earned a shot at Mayweather, I could have no complaints about that next. It would be a one sided trashing, but I think any fight at WW would be right now. Bradley has also earned a shot, but hes still at top rank right?

Also, I think the Floyd Manny fight happens in around one year or so. Floyd spanks him, people whinge that it should have happened sooner and he should move up to SMW to take on GGG. Thats what I see in my crystal ball, which is frequently wrong to be fair.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Its not wealth he's chasing Cap - he'd have that in huge amounts facing Pacquiao, I think its a dislike of Arum thats forcing this. He knows it'll cement his legacy, guarantee him a top 10 ATG spot (in my eyes at least) make him a shedload of money and he must know he'll win. I don't think he's scared. I don't think he's looking for more money - its literally a pride thing that he can't swallow Uncle Bobs bullsh!t.

It's wealth balanced with legacy. I.e. he may want $60m to take a high-risk Manny fight, but he could get 3x$20m fighting lower risk opponents - so why bother?

joeyjojo618 wrote:Both Floyd and Manny seemed to duck the fight 3-4 years ago. Manny wants it now because he is coming to the end of his career and wants a big payday. Thats how I see it anyway. I would like to see Pacman in with an actual WW before it happens though, him beating on Rios didnt really tell us anything about how much hes got left in the tank. Maybe rematch with Bradley. He should avoid the new super Marquez, win or lose hes never going to look good against that guy.

Garcia has earned a shot at Mayweather, I could have no complaints about that next. It would be a one sided trashing, but I think any fight at WW would be right now. Bradley has also earned a shot, but hes still at top rank right?

Think Garcia and Bradley have both earned a shot and deserved it ahead of Khan or Manny.

Yep. I think its pretty clear to everyone that when Bob Frak off, and Pacman goes alone, the fight gets made.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Yep. I think its pretty clear to everyone that when Bob Frak off, and Pacman goes alone, the fight gets made.

You mean pretty clear to Floyd nuthuggers that are desperate to absolve their boy of any responsibility??

Yeah hard to justify Khan as up next. Lost to Garcia, not looked great since. Not had much time at WW, and not a huge draw. I could also see it ending early.

Khan needs to build some momentum. At this stage of his career Im not sure who he beats at WW though.

Khan is exciting, could see him as a big draw, but he needs to build up some momentum as you say. Hence why I thought he should've taken the Devon Alexander fight. Big name, winnable, high profile stateside bout.

Unfortunately Porter's got there now and done the job but is probably a higher risk and lower reward opponent for Khan. Holding out for his money payday has hurt him.

I'm not a Floyd nuthugger Toppy, I'll be frank and say it is a clear duck and something he shouldn't be doing but at the same time its not because he's particularly scared, I mean - how can he be? It can't be about money, he has a LOT of that.

I just think theres another factor at play we're not considering.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I'm not a Floyd nuthugger Toppy, I'll be frank and say it is a clear duck and something he shouldn't be doing but at the same time its not because he's particularly scared, I mean - how can he be? It can't be about money, he has a LOT of that.

I just think theres another factor at play we're not considering.

It was less in reference to you Jab. It's the suggestion that Arum is the ONLY thing preventing this fight from happening that I take umbrage with, given the amount of weasely excuses Team Mayweather have come up with over the years.

Funny thing about money is that once you've got it, it's rare you're happy with how much you have.

Even without Arum, I think if you offered Floyd:

Option1 - Bradley+Garcia+Khan=$60m
or
Option2 - Manny=$60m.

I'd back him to go for Option 1.

Silly, as I reckon he'd beat Manny fine and still have Option 1 to follow.....

I think he'd honestly sit back and say "Well Bradley is a risky fight, but I'd beat Garcia and Khan" - given your argument, I agree that in terms of longevity and legacy, option 1 is better and his excuses are pretty shocking. I don't however, think that its much to do with money. He's taken less lucrative fights before - look at the Ortiz fight. Wasn't a big deal financially in comparison to some others he could have taken, same with Guerrero. He's reached that plateau now where money isn't an issue. He's the richest person in sport. I think its a ridiculous sense of hatred that drives this, he doesn't want to line anyone elses pockets with money he feels he deserves more of himself.

Where was the risk in Guerrero or Ortiz though? There wasn't any. Which is why they're great examples of Floyd's fight-picking. It's not simply money, its money/risk/legacy balance.

Mayweathers afraid of losing and so are his fans. They do give me a good laugh though.

I don't think money is a factor. Like Jab says, i don't think he would want to line Arums pockets....especially based on their history. Hatred.

The biggest star in boxing, highest earner in boxing, p4p number 1 who brings the most money to the table....why would you do that against Pacman and give Arum some shares??? I know I wouldn't.

As i said, soon as Manny leaves Arum, this fight gets made guaranteed.

mobilemaster8 wrote:I don't think money is a factor. Like Jab says, i don't think he would want to line Arums pockets....especially based on their history. Hatred.

The biggest star in boxing, highest earner in boxing, p4p number 1 who brings the most money to the table....why would you do that against Pacman and give Arum some shares??? I know I wouldn't.

As i said, soon as Manny leaves Arum, this fight gets made guaranteed.

Rubbish, with absolutely nothing to back it up and conveniently absolves Floyd over any responsibility for the fight not happening.

PBF is one of the most expert oppo-pickers in the game, he knows how to pick and time a fight to perfection to generate the most amount of money but in the knowledge they shouldn't challenge him. Paul Williams never happened, peak Cotto never happened, Manny never happened. Instead he got people to buy into fights like Ortiz and Guerrero or tricked people into believing there was something credible about getting a LW to blow-up to a catchweight which he promptly ignored anyway (sod purse fines, should be a NC, IMO).

If Marquez was unhappy with Mayweather weighing above the 144lb agreement he should then have cancelled the fight.

There was a slight risk with Guerrero, effectively undefeated (avenged his Diaz loss though) for 7 years, 2 weight world champion - had just beaten Berto, personally I thought it was a great matchup with some risk, looking back its always going to look like a poor match because of how much Mayweather outclassed him. Thats the thing, when looking back you can say Ortiz was a bad matchup but at the time he was WBC champion and #2 ranked by the ring so lets face it, it wasn't a straightup "no risk" fight.

THing is, you can technically say ANYONE is a poor match for Mayweather around the LWW and WW area because nobody has looked anywhere close to his ability. Even Pacquiao isn't exactly deserving if you think about it - he's beaten Rios. The last 2 fights he's lost. I agree with you when you say bradley won, but Pacquiao didn't really put it to bed as he should have, showing Bradley to be better than we gave him credit for. He then went and had a war with Providkinov (sp?) so it wasn't as if he didn't have it in him to fight that way.

We can't just say "yeah - Floyd is scared" because honestly, what would he be scared of? You're treading on thin ice when saying "no risk" because lets face it, fighting champions coming off a win is hardly no risk. The definition would be Mayweather now facing someone like Rios' level.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If Marquez was unhappy with Mayweather weighing above the 144lb agreement he should then have cancelled the fight.

And when does that ever happen? 24hrs away from being able to put food on the table to feed your family.

Keep the excuses coming.

Here is 5 good fights for Mayweather: Lara, Golovkin, Martinez, Pacquiao, Bradley. Watch how he fights Khan instead with future opponent Maidana on the undercard.

He hasnt fought one top fighter near their best in ages.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If Marquez was unhappy with Mayweather weighing above the 144lb agreement he should then have cancelled the fight.

Hilarious

You know Golovkin is a middleweight right? Who is being touted as a SMW opponent for the likes of Ward and Froch?

JabMachineMK2 wrote:There was a slight risk with Guerrero, effectively undefeated (avenged his Diaz loss though) for 7 years, 2 weight world champion - had just beaten Berto, personally I thought it was a great matchup with some risk, looking back its always going to look like a poor match because of how much Mayweather outclassed him. Thats the thing, when looking back you can say Ortiz was a bad matchup but at the time he was WBC champion and #2 ranked by the ring so lets face it, it wasn't a straightup "no risk" fight.

Disagree entirely. Where was the risk?? He wasn't bigger or heavier, didn't have a reach advantage, wasn't faster or a big puncher. He was a good LW but the fight wasn't at LW, it was 2 weights above where'd he'd only fought twice - a settling in gimme and a win versus Andre '2012s Jeff Lacy' Berto.

I agree where Mayweather is so good there's always an argument that oppos won't be good enough. But the fact is he picks well to ensure people believe fights are more credible than they really are. Ortiz was only being name-dropped after, apparently, putting his gut-check fail rumours to bed by also beating Andre 'Jeff Lacy' Berto, Floyd convincing everyone to overlook him already losing to Maidana and only drawing with Peterson. Believe it was only his second fight at the weight also (though this isn't as significant as with RG).

Good money low risk fights.

There are even some slight rumblings of him fighting Maidana at some point. That would be a massacre.

I think it's a bit of both. Sure, Floyd picks his opponents in a smart way. But, equally, they always look worse in hindsight because he outclasses them to such a degree. Canelo is a good example of this - he already seems to be getting denied his credit for that win. He's far and away the best between 140-154 - absolutely no doubts about that. It'd just be really nice if he didn't take nothing fights like Khan.

Maidana would be a good example of the kind of fight Floyd would pick. Technically a world champ who just 'solved the problem' so there's plenty to sell and to help Team Mayweather gloss over him being beat by Khan and Alexander and scraping an MD versus old man Morales.

Dont be surprised if he fights Khan and Maidana is on the undercard against someone like Mathysse with the winner of that being Mayweathers next opponent.

Ortiz didnt have a world title below 140. Ortiz is 1-2 at Welterweight, both his losses came within 10 rounds, and he was a legitimate threat? Optical illusion much?
Might as well give Jesus as shot then.

catchweight wrote:Keep the excuses coming.

Here is 5 good fights for Mayweather: Lara, Golovkin, Martinez, Pacquiao, Bradley. Watch how he fights Khan instead with future opponent Maidana on the undercard.

He hasnt fought one top fighter near their best in ages.

Golovkin - MW World Champion. Currently campaigns at 160lbs. Why should Floyd fight him? People have been saying (on this very board) he is a hype job. Why should Floyd have to go up in weight again? Makes ZERO sense. Why doesn't Pacquiao fight him then?? He also won a title at LMW against P4P superstar Antonio Margarito (at 151lbs).

Lara - Again, zero interest in fight promotion. Great technical fight but nothing in it for Floyd.

Martinez - Arguably lost to Murray, was having a tough night with Barker and Maklin. Well past his prime, people would therefore criticise Floyd if he beat him by saying how over the hill he was!

Pacquiao - 2 losses (one via KO to a guy that arguably beat Pacman every other time and also someone who Floyd outclassed winning every round) to JMM and Bradley. Then beats a blown up LW in Rios (picked by his own team - ironic with everyone calling Floyd a cherry picker) and becomes #1?! Fight will happen when Arum does one.

Bradley - This fight will happen. Be a great fight as well.

Yep excuses all the way down until you reach Amir Khan. Then its "exciting", "sells", "speed".

Not really. How are any of the above excuses? Please explain.

You will also see my comments on the Khan thread that i think its a poor fight and that Bradley deserves a shot nobody else at the moment at WW.

So yeh, how are the above comments excuses?

Sorry Mobile you are convincing no one mate, Floyd is just out and out ducking again and he has been doing it for years. Amazingly him and his team have openly admitted they dont want the Manny fight on a few occasions, yet it seems to cut no ice with his fans and their completely flawed defence of him.

They are all excuses for not going after good fights. Heres the reality, hes not even considering any of those fights. He wants Khan. The only thing stopping it is fans dissatisfaction but he has a legion at work making all sorts of excuses for him taking on maybe the tenth toughest fight out there for him.

Its been the same for years and years. He never goes after the toughest fights. He waits for top fighters to get old and then plays lip service through the media for these average TexMex fighters like Guerrero or Ortiz.

You had a strong welterweight division a few years ago with Mosley, Cotto, Margarito, Williams and Pacquiao and Mayweather retired. He came back when they had all beat each other up, beat a couple of them when they were past it, avoided some in favour of easier options. Would rather vacate his title than defend it against Pacquiao even to this day. His fans are kidding themselves about him.

His whole career has made him look better than he is because he doesnt test himself. Its nowhere near certain he would have even been able to beat peak versions of boxers like Cotto, Trinidad, Mosley or de la Hoya judging on how he managed against past it versions of them, nevermind peak fighters like Leonard, Hearns, Hagler and Duran yet hes managed to fool a hell of a lot of people he is greater than all these fighters.

I wanted to see him face Williams, Margarito and Pac. will never see any of those fights

hogey wrote:Sorry Mobile you are convincing no one mate, Floyd is just out and out ducking again and he has been doing it for years. Amazingly him and his team have openly admitted they dont want the Manny fight on a few occasions, yet it seems to cut no ice with his fans and their completely flawed defence of him.

Not defending him at all mate, just expressing my opinion on peoples views that Floyd has always taken easy fights and I think I have rightfully explained the reasoning behind not fighting Martinez, Golovkin etc etc

these threads arent as much fun without Trussy...

butyou have Louis at 6? I'll ignore the wum.

catchweight wrote:They are all excuses for not going after good fights. Heres the reality, hes not even considering any of those fights. He wants Khan. The only thing stopping it is fans dissatisfaction but he has a legion at work making all sorts of excuses for him taking on maybe the tenth toughest fight out there for him.

Its been the same for years and years. He never goes after the toughest fights. He waits for top fighters to get old and then plays lip service through the media for these average TexMex fighters like Guerrero or Ortiz.

You had a strong welterweight division a few years ago with Mosley, Cotto, Margarito, Williams and Pacquiao and Mayweather retired. He came back when they had all beat each other up, beat a couple of them when they were past it, avoided some in favour of easier options. Would rather vacate his title than defend it against Pacquiao even to this day. His fans are kidding themselves about him.

His whole career has made him look better than he is because he doesnt test himself. Its nowhere near certain he would have even been able to beat peak versions of boxers like Cotto, Trinidad, Mosley or de la Hoya judging on how he managed against past it versions of them, nevermind peak fighters like Leonard, Hearns, Hagler and Duran yet hes managed to fool a hell of a lot of people he is greater than all these fighters.

Never goes after tough fights: Mosley P4P number 3 (just crushed Marg)......called Floyd out....Floyd accepted and beat him handily.
Corrales Undefeated
Castillo twice
Saul Canelo Alvarez (his supposed big test, was tipped to lose to the 23 year old)
De La Hoya @ 154lbs
Hernanzdez

To name just a few above mate, you obviously hadn't gone through his fights.

Mayweather retired.........errr.........nothing else to say.

Doesn't test himself...........see above along with record.

Im no Floyd nuthugger but he is the best in the sport out there and has been for absolutely years. Pacquiao is also fantastic, just not on Floyds level.

Doesn't mean I like them less than each other, both to blame in equal measures. Never the less, Floyd would have boxed his ears off anyway IMO.

Why is ODLH still rated highly as a win? the man one only one clear fight (discounting the Strum robbery) in four years.

mobilemaster8 wrote:

catchweight wrote:They are all excuses for not going after good fights. Heres the reality, hes not even considering any of those fights. He wants Khan. The only thing stopping it is fans dissatisfaction but he has a legion at work making all sorts of excuses for him taking on maybe the tenth toughest fight out there for him.

Its been the same for years and years. He never goes after the toughest fights. He waits for top fighters to get old and then plays lip service through the media for these average TexMex fighters like Guerrero or Ortiz.

You had a strong welterweight division a few years ago with Mosley, Cotto, Margarito, Williams and Pacquiao and Mayweather retired. He came back when they had all beat each other up, beat a couple of them when they were past it, avoided some in favour of easier options. Would rather vacate his title than defend it against Pacquiao even to this day. His fans are kidding themselves about him.

His whole career has made him look better than he is because he doesnt test himself. Its nowhere near certain he would have even been able to beat peak versions of boxers like Cotto, Trinidad, Mosley or de la Hoya judging on how he managed against past it versions of them, nevermind peak fighters like Leonard, Hearns, Hagler and Duran yet hes managed to fool a hell of a lot of people he is greater than all these fighters.

Never goes after tough fights: Mosley P4P number 3 (just crushed Marg)......called Floyd out....Floyd accepted and beat him handily.
Corrales Undefeated
Castillo twice
Saul Canelo Alvarez (his supposed big test, was tipped to lose to the 23 year old)
De La Hoya @ 154lbs
Hernanzdez

To name just a few above mate, you obviously hadn't gone through his fights.

Mayweather retired.........errr.........nothing else to say.

Doesn't test himself...........see above along with record.

Im no Floyd nuthugger but he is the best in the sport out there and has been for absolutely years. Pacquiao is also fantastic, just not on Floyds level.

Doesn't mean I like them less than each other, both to blame in equal measures. Never the less, Floyd would have boxed his ears off anyway IMO.

You are the definition of a Floyd nuthugger

MM8, how can you deny Mayweather retired............??!

You should all find something better to do lads, they had the chance to make the biggest fight in history, they couldn’t be bothered and took a dump on the sport and fans that had made them rich instead. They do not deserve your energies.

Once upon a time Mayweather was not "Money" Mayeather. Back in those days he couldnt just pick whoever he wanted to fight and rely on an army of fans, promoters, the media and Ring magazine to hype the arse out of it. He actually had to fight the top guys without prejudice. Hence you got fights against boxers like Corrales and Castillo. The top guys in the division boxing each other. Boxing as it should be.

But those days didnt last and in the last half decade or more Mayweather has been carefully navigating through divisions building a boxing brand that is based on money and therefore power. He just doesnt test himself in the toughest fights anymore. He gets away with it thanks to a new breed of boxing fan. The pseudo-promoter boxing fan. Concerning himself with who is on a pound for pound lists, what his fighter stands to make, who has earned what, what W.B.Couldnt give a crap super belt is involved and all this general BS. Fans who think boxing should be simplified into a boxer becoming champion and then defending against all the best challengers are stuck in the past. The modern boxing fan cares more about what opponent sells, what piece of crap title they hold, where the Ring rates them on the pound for pound list, boxrec, why they shouldnt fight so and so, who is too risky bla bla bla. Kicking all that crap to touch for a minute, its pretty obvious that Mayweather went into hiding when he was faced with a pretty tough welterweight division. Its pretty obvious when he came back he picked off past it fighters like Mosley and Cotto or overhyped average types like Guerrero and Ortiz aided by all the modern BS that fans now love to hear (Ring pound for pound top ten, sells ppv, 3 weight star baloney). Its pretty obvious he wasnt interested in fighting the single biggest threat and potential biggest fight ever and still isnt to this day. It pretty obvious he wants to fight Khan. Making excuses in boxing promoter pseudo speak doesnt change this but it does a good job letting people fool themselves and others.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Not really. How are any of the above excuses? Please explain.

Erm, because they're reasons why Floyd shouldn't take the best/toughest fights out there....??

Why should he go up in weight to fight GGG?? i take it for Garcia to test himself he HAS to take on Saul Alvarez. Simple.

Martinez is a no win situation. If he fights him and wins, everyone will just say he is over the hill or was over the hill! Wont get the recognition.

Bradley i said he should/would fight hopefully. Same weight, Bradley has beaten both Pacman and JMM. Deserves his shot.

Pacquiao, when arum leaves, should get a shot as well providing he comes back and beats a top ten ranked fighter at the weight. No worries. Id love to see the fight as i love both fighters for two very different reasons and styles.

Take off you Mayweather promoter hat for a second. How is Martinez a "no win"? Why are you worried "what people say"?. Its a far better fight than any of the ones Mayweather is considering and better than any fight Mayweather has taken. Its a fight that would give him a legitimate middleweight crown. The fight isnt happening because its a "no win" for Mayweather. Its because its a "might not win" for Mayweather. Im sure once he beats Martinez the precious Ring magazine will recognise him as the worlds best middleweight. But hey, Amir Khan is available again after a year out of the ring flashing his bits over the internet. Far better for us fans.

Exactly. When you say things like 'no win' and 'not enough in it' and 'why should he', it just becomes an excuse fest.

Mayweather is far too small to fight middleweights and to expect him at 37 years old to fight at a weight he's never fought at is ludicrous.

As for Pacquaio, there is no way he would take a mandatory cut. You know this but still deride Mayweather. Same people who gave him all the blame for the fight not happening when it was a big attraction 3/4 years ago without taking Pacquaio's part in it into account.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Why should he go up in weight to fight GGG??

He shouldn't. But, if GGG gets some big wins and can make JMW then it would be a legitimately great challenge for floyd (seeing as though he's the JMW champion). Likewise, Lara is one decent win away from being the nailed on, far and away, no.1 contender at JMW - again a legitimate challenge for floyd in his own division.

I can't understand why a boxing fan would try to discourage what are two potentially great and thoroughly intriguing battles.

Of course, I could see Floyd vacating before fighting either of those guys.

RanjitPatel wrote:Mayweather is far too small to fight middleweights and to expect him at 37 years old to fight at a weight he's never fought at is ludicrous.

No one wants him to fight a MW. They do, however, want him to defend his belt against the top guys at 154. Lara is one of them. GGG could potentially be another.

Well Pacquiao was a champion at LMW as well so lets see if he will fight GGG or Lara........

Martinez is a poor poor win. If it had happened say 3-4 years ago, when he was sparking out Williams etc then yeh. But now after scraping past 3 domestic UK middleweights and a blown up uselss version of Chavez Snr, what sort of recognition would Floyd get?! None.

Boxthis, a few people on this thread have proposed GGG as a Floyd opponent.

RanjitPatel wrote:Mayweather is far too small to fight middleweights and to expect him at 37 years old to fight at a weight he's never fought at is ludicrous.

As for Pacquaio, there is no way he would take a mandatory cut. You know this but still deride Mayweather. Same people who gave him all the blame for the fight not happening when it was a big attraction 3/4 years ago without taking Pacquaio's part in it into account.

Hes on record saying he would rather vacate his title than fight so it blows that theory out of the water. I know it hurts but the truth is he just doesnt like testing himself.

I said Pacquaio wouldn't take a mandatory cut so the theories still intact.