Toulon vs Blues

First topic message reminder :

Just getting a thread up in advance of this weekends match, latest rumour: Halfpenny to cover flyhalf?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25641131

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2 penalty tries and 2 yellow cards in 5 minutes

Harsh

Well thats the end of that game

urggg

Jesus christ Cardiff....

wales606 wrote:2 penalty tries and 2 yellow cards in 5 minutes

Harsh

At least you did the double over Glasgow with a depleted squad 

Yup - both penalty tries seemed fair enough to me. If you are getting pushed back over your line at a rate of knots and then resort to stopping it illegally then you will always be at risk of a penalty try.

21 points in 10 minutes

Thought Blues might hold on but Toulon are going up through the gears. Must have been reminded at halftime that a home quarter final was needed.

they have to be yellow cards or there is absolutely no downside to trying to illegally stop a certain try.

both absoltely correct, and the more that referees follow this example, the less cynical collapses of mauls and scrums we will see, and more trys.

Cardiff doing well to slow down Toulon now they're s few players down. Too late though unfortunately.

Sheridan still dominating at this level, eating the Blues pack for breakfast.

new scrum rules seem to suit sheridan fine, in spite of his time off with neck injury.

Both penalty tries looked fair, but not the first YC.

Blues have been competitive, but given the calibre of both squads there was only so long they could keep it up. It would be good for them if they were able to salvage something, but I think we may have passed that point.

Well, avoiding a cricket score is all we can hope, the Blues are bringing on 3rd string replacements from their feeder clubs where as Toulon are bringing on seasoned internationals

Yea just keeping the score as it is will be a good result for Blues.

As a neutral I never really enjoy these mismatches that are thrown up by the HC. A team full of internationals and internationals on the bench v a team without.

The Saint wrote:Both penalty tries looked fair, but not the first YC.

Blues have been competitive, but given the calibre of both squads there was only so long they could keep it up. It would be good for them if they were able to salvage something, but I think we may have passed that point.

i agree. the first YC was for ripping the ball after the tackle i think is what the ref said. haven't seen that before. i guess its like not releasing the tackled player, and in such a dangerous position is why he gave the YC...thats my guess anyway.

the match was really over as soon as gethin went off

Toulon don't have the tbp right?

Cuthbert deciding to get involved when the game is over

Also, I have no idea how Toulon did not get a YC then

why do all the blues have stubble on their heads?

good try by hobbs. still had a fair bit to do there.

yappysnap wrote:Toulon don't have the tbp right?

not yet.

quinsforever wrote:why do all the blues have stubble on their heads?

The squad shaved their heads last week to raise money for velindre hospital when club captain Matthew Rees is being treated for testicular cancer.

Theyve raised over £14,000

quinsforever wrote:

The Saint wrote:Both penalty tries looked fair, but not the first YC.

Blues have been competitive, but given the calibre of both squads there was only so long they could keep it up. It would be good for them if they were able to salvage something, but I think we may have passed that point.

i agree. the first YC was for ripping the ball after the tackle i think is what the ref said. haven't seen that before. i guess its like not releasing the tackled player, and in such a dangerous position is why he gave the YC...thats my guess anyway.

the match was really over as soon as gethin went off

I can't remember a situation where I've seen it, but it's probably happened. It certainly wasn't after the tackle though.

Yeah Gethin was pretty much holding the pack together, him and Copeland. I still think the talent in the Toulon squad would have eventually taken it's toll, and it's against a crippled Blues squad too. Hopefully they prevent the fourth try!

quinsforever wrote:why do all the blues have stubble on their heads?

They all shaved their heads to show solidarity with Rees who has cancer IIRC

bad boy copeland. shame after he has been so huge for blues.

There was really no need for that!

Urggg

Good spirit from the Blues, would have been very close if it wasn't for that horrific 21 point 10 minutes.

Talk about bad discipline though - 4 yellow cards and 3 penalty tries. :/

Been watching the game, quite entertaining, but there is something wrong when a team scores three penalty tries.

Not that the referee is wrong in awarding them, it just shouldn't happen.

As an aside this Toulon team could really represent anyone of 6 nations

His starting XV has

1. England
2. South Africa
3. New Zealand
4. South Africa
5. France
6. South Africa
7. South Africa
8. England
9. France
10. England
11. Samoa
12. Australia
13. France
14. New Zealand
15. Australia

Personally I don't see how anyone can e loyal to a team like that.

Biltong wrote:Been watching the game, quite entertaining, but there is something wrong when a team scores three penalty tries.

Not that the referee is wrong in awarding them, it just shouldn't happen.

As an aside this Toulon team could really represent anyone of 6 nations

His starting XV has

1. England
2. South Africa
3. New Zealand
4. South Africa
5. France
6. South Africa
7. South Africa
8. England
9. France
10. England
11. Samoa
12. Australia
13. France
14. New Zealand
15. Australia

Personally I don't see how anyone can e loyal to a team like that.

They're class players and they didn't gel overnight. They won't be around forever though so the honeymoon period won't last. You can't buy what teams like Leinster have; the Irish team has been at the top for years and look like they'll be up there for the foreseeable future.

The Saint wrote:
They're class players and they didn't gel overnight. They won't be around forever though so the honeymoon period won't last. You can't buy what teams like Leinster have; the Irish team has been at the top for years and look like they'll be up there for the foreseeable future.

Scarlets win last night was a good exemple, you can buy as many players as you want, you can't buy a team.

Biltong wrote:Been watching the game, quite entertaining, but there is something wrong when a team scores three penalty tries.

Not that the referee is wrong in awarding them, it just shouldn't happen.

As an aside this Toulon team could really represent anyone of 6 nations

His starting XV has

1. England
2. South Africa
3. New Zealand
4. South Africa
5. France
6. South Africa
7. South Africa
8. England
9. France
10. England
11. Samoa
12. Australia
13. France
14. New Zealand
15. Australia

Personally I don't see how anyone can e loyal to a team like that.

i disagree bilt. i think success and appreciation from fans can build very strong player loyalty. examples:

wilko has put off retirement by yet another year and extended his contract
armitage brothers both extended
sheridan too
giteau
and all of them would have a very realistic shot of further international involvement (ok not wilko but he turned down the lions to play top14 finals last year)

the south of france is rugby mad, and they are very appreciated by their fans. i think that very quickly builds loyalty from players for a club side.

VinceWLB wrote:

The Saint wrote:
They're class players and they didn't gel overnight. They won't be around forever though so the honeymoon period won't last. You can't buy what teams like Leinster have; the Irish team has been at the top for years and look like they'll be up there for the foreseeable future.

Scarlets win last night was a good exemple, you can buy as many players as you want, you can't buy a team.

not a great example. racing have clearly given up on europe this year already.

quinsforever wrote:

Biltong wrote:Been watching the game, quite entertaining, but there is something wrong when a team scores three penalty tries.

Not that the referee is wrong in awarding them, it just shouldn't happen.

As an aside this Toulon team could really represent anyone of 6 nations

His starting XV has

1. England
2. South Africa
3. New Zealand
4. South Africa
5. France
6. South Africa
7. South Africa
8. England
9. France
10. England
11. Samoa
12. Australia
13. France
14. New Zealand
15. Australia

Personally I don't see how anyone can e loyal to a team like that.

i disagree bilt. i think success and appreciation from fans can build very strong player loyalty. examples:

wilko has put off retirement by yet another year and extended his contract
armitage brothers both extended
sheridan too
giteau
and all of them would have a very realistic shot of further international involvement (ok not wilko but he turned down the lions to play top14 finals last year)

the south of france is rugby mad, and they are very appreciated by their fans. i think that very quickly builds loyalty from players for a club side.

sorry mate, but I will never get that.

A French team with three starting players?

Any rugby player would love to play at Toulon with the set-up they currently have. It ain't a bad location either! I just don't see it being sustainable. Players will enjoy themselves for a while, pick up the pay-cheque and leave. There's no future in that.

At one point there was as many french players in the Cardiff's pack than in Toulon's.

Biltong wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Biltong wrote:Been watching the game, quite entertaining, but there is something wrong when a team scores three penalty tries.

Not that the referee is wrong in awarding them, it just shouldn't happen.

As an aside this Toulon team could really represent anyone of 6 nations

His starting XV has

1. England
2. South Africa
3. New Zealand
4. South Africa
5. France
6. South Africa
7. South Africa
8. England
9. France
10. England
11. Samoa
12. Australia
13. France
14. New Zealand
15. Australia

Personally I don't see how anyone can e loyal to a team like that.

i disagree bilt. i think success and appreciation from fans can build very strong player loyalty. examples:

wilko has put off retirement by yet another year and extended his contract
armitage brothers both extended
sheridan too
giteau
and all of them would have a very realistic shot of further international involvement (ok not wilko but he turned down the lions to play top14 finals last year)

the south of france is rugby mad, and they are very appreciated by their fans. i think that very quickly builds loyalty from players for a club side.

sorry mate, but I will never get that.

A French team with three starting players?

it's a french CLUB team. and their fans love them. what's the problem with that?

VinceWLB wrote:At one point there was as many french players in the Cardiff's pack than in Toulon's.

From the start of the match wasn't it?

i love seeing all the greats on the Toulon side. couldnt care less about how many from which country.

quinsforever wrote:

Biltong wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Biltong wrote:Been watching the game, quite entertaining, but there is something wrong when a team scores three penalty tries.

Not that the referee is wrong in awarding them, it just shouldn't happen.

As an aside this Toulon team could really represent anyone of 6 nations

His starting XV has

1. England
2. South Africa
3. New Zealand
4. South Africa
5. France
6. South Africa
7. South Africa
8. England
9. France
10. England
11. Samoa
12. Australia
13. France
14. New Zealand
15. Australia

Personally I don't see how anyone can e loyal to a team like that.

i disagree bilt. i think success and appreciation from fans can build very strong player loyalty. examples:

wilko has put off retirement by yet another year and extended his contract
armitage brothers both extended
sheridan too
giteau
and all of them would have a very realistic shot of further international involvement (ok not wilko but he turned down the lions to play top14 finals last year)

the south of france is rugby mad, and they are very appreciated by their fans. i think that very quickly builds loyalty from players for a club side.

sorry mate, but I will never get that.

A French team with three starting players?

it's a french CLUB team. and their fans love them. what's the problem with that?

I suppose you have different ideas than I have. For me to support a team I must have a vested interest or for want of a better description identify with the culture and history of my team. In this case I struggle to see how that is possible, in my view it is a superficial team brought together to buy trophies.

I am not saying I won't watch them, I do when the opportunty arise (watch HC) but merely to watch a game of rugby, with no interest as to which team wins.

wales606 wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:At one point there was as many french players in the Cardiff's pack than in Toulon's.

From the start of the match wasn't it?

Yep, i only caught the game late in the 1st half and realised Suta was the only French player in Toulon's pack.

quinsforever wrote:i love seeing all the greats on the Toulon side. couldnt care less about how many from which country.

you're missin my point. Watching them play is a window to yesteryear. I watched the game specifically because Juan Smit my biggest Springbok hero was playing.

My question is about how does one SUPPORT a team like that.

Biltong wrote:

quinsforever wrote:i love seeing all the greats on the Toulon side. couldnt care less about how many from which country.

you're missin my point. Watching them play is a window to yesteryear. I watched the game specifically because Juan Smit my biggest Springbok hero was playing.

My question is about how does one SUPPORT a team like that.

The Toulon fans love them and that's what matters. I really like watching the multi-national mix they've got going on there. As long as the players give everything for the club it doesn't matter where they're from.

Who wouldn't want to play rugby down there. Great climate and culture.

I couldn't support a team like that. It makes me proud that when the majority of Ulster players were kids, they grew up watching Ulster from the terraces just like me. If anything, its a damning indictment of their own Academy structures.

The sad thing is Toulon have had good players come through their Academy and have to leave to get game time elsewhere because some big name foreigner is in their position. Gunther who came off the bench today is off for that reason- a local lad who can't break into the local team he's dreamt of representing his whole life because of a Springbok adding to his pension fund!

Notch wrote:I couldn't support a team like that. It makes me proud that when the majority of Ulster players were kids, they grew up watching Ulster from the terraces just like me. If anything, its a damning indictment of their own Academy structures.

The sad thing is Toulon have had good players come through their Academy and have to leave to get game time elsewhere because some big name foreigner is in their position. Gunther who came off the bench today is off for that reason- a local lad who can't break into the local team he's dreamt of representing his whole life because of a Springbok adding to his pension fund!

well put.

In SA domestic sport we have a situation (not sure if it is an agreement or directive) that teams can have one overseas player in their team.

It doesn't happen all the time though. But it is nice to see which overseas players come and spend time here. Michalack had spent a number of seasons at the Sharks. We have had an American at the Lions, a Canadian at the Stormers etc.

Quite a number of West Indian cricketers have come in the past and now there are a few English cricketers here this summer.

Our teams however remain authentic SA teams.

Biltong wrote:

quinsforever wrote:i love seeing all the greats on the Toulon side. couldnt care less about how many from which country.

you're missin my point. Watching them play is a window to yesteryear. I watched the game specifically because Juan Smit my biggest Springbok hero was playing.

My question is about how does one SUPPORT a team like that.

Biltong, you support them because you are from Toulon and the shirt and club culture is what matters not the origin of the players as long as they embrace it. Racing has none of that hence the shambles they are in.
They have a good academy and players like bruni are leaving next season because they are good enough to play the big games elsewhere , Ivaldi left last year, maestri and fickou went to toulouse before etc... One day the locals might get fed up and will demand to have a quota of local players.

I think it's good that players can come into a team and a community and become part of it. Guys like Payne, Muller and Pienaar have massively bought into Ulster Rugby and are part of the family now. But there's a big difference between a few guys and a whole team. A core of local guys is massively important to keep the identity and pride in the jersey from generation to generation.

I agree with Biltong and Notch, and its one of the reasons why I cannot follow Cardiff City FC, or any other team in the Football Premier League. When the majority of teams are not made up of home grown talent and are flown in, the place they represent just becomes a name.

Having said that, football fans are always club over country, so maybe that has something to do with it.

i love that johnny wilkinson can go to Toulon, become the team captain, help create the atmosphere and ethos in the dressing room, and win european player of the year last year, captaining toulon to winning the Heineken Cup.

that is a club, and fans, that love rugby.

i don't support them, but i love watching them.

flankertye wrote:Jesus christ Cardiff....

You rang?