Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

[Crimey]

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Discuss everything Premier League

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I get what you mean mystir - and your right one or two wins is the difference between staying up and going down. 5 points difference in points at this stage compared to last season is a big difference yet one the whole everyone is in the same boat this year. Very few teams have the same or better points total than they did last Jan because the league has been so inconsistent...when looking at it from that perspective Norwich are no worse off than they were.

Honeymoon periods can occur - ala Pochettino & Pullis...yet they can also fail miserably...Poyet has hardly had one (though they look a little more solid now) and I wouldn't say Fulham look any better to be honest.

1 or two wins will be the difference this year and they are likely going to come against the teams in and around that relegation zone..Norwich have shown they are more capable than most in picking up those said wins and that for me would be enough to stick with him for the time being.

I half agree and half dont. There are valid reasons for twisting and for sticking. Some would say the gamble is worth it either way cos Fulham looked down to me, so having a go at change and going down is better than accepting your fate. Not sure Pochettino can be judged as honeymoon period, whereas I think Pulis' nous has instantly made Palace better.

Poyet will benefit from Paolo's fantastic pre-season planning. It was constantly noted that Swindon seemed fitter than everyone else as the season came to conclusion. Sunderland should get that benefit.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Another key factor is there is no one better out there.

[mystiroakey]

So the only team that truly looks better from the change is Palace?

And to be honest i dont even think its about Pulis. I think its more about losing Holloway.

in regards to your 22 and 25 pts point- 5 points more is huge at this point and would propel Norwich into 9th spot.

sometimes a manager change can get you one or two honeymoon wins.

Then things normally go back to how there were before.

The truth is though. 1 or 2 extra wins is the difference between staying up or going down

I get what you mean mystir - and your right one or two wins is the difference between staying up and going down. 5 points difference in points at this stage compared to last season is a big difference yet on the whole everyone is in the same boat this year. Very few teams have the same or better points total than they did last Jan because the league has been so inconsistent...when looking at it from that perspective Norwich are no worse off than they were.

Honeymoon periods can occur - ala Pochettino & Pullis...yet they can also fail miserably...Poyet has hardly had one (though they look a little more solid now) and I wouldn't say Fulham look any better to be honest.

1 or two wins will be the difference this year and they are likely going to come against the teams in and around that relegation zone..Norwich have shown they are more capable than most in picking up those said wins and that for me would be enough to stick with him for the time being.

You are right . Fulham havent changed.

As flaky as ever. I can only blame both managers for this. They do have real quality.

Sunderland look much better than they did- they truly needed a new manager in exactly the same way palace did. This two teams were not just bad- they would have been bad in the championship before the changes!

west ham and Norwich are the two sides that haven't changed but i think we all have a feeling that a change may not help them. But then if they cant buy better players. Do they roll the dice.

These two teams are not teams that should be facing relegation scares. these are two good teams.. The boards of both clubs are in a horrid place. If they sack the managers and go down they will get the blame. If they dont they will get the blame..

[socal1976]

And on those strikers, I'd take Carroll over every striker in London, but Giroud wouldn't work in a team outside of the top 6, 7 or 8. Giroud is a better player, but I wouldn't want to see him in the trenches with me.

For all sides, currently, I'd have Giroud, Carroll, Soldado, Torres, Eto'o. I just like Soldado's touch and movement, if Tottenham don't work it out with him then he'll score bucketloads when he moves.

If Adebayor could be motivated for a long period of time then I might have him over all of them. But he cant.

Giroud is a great target man like Carroll is a better passer and has a good left foot and decent first touch. The guy is an established french international and plays at a major club for a reason. Soldado is off form and has not shown outside of a couple of seasons of La liga that he is this great striker while Giroud has proven himself in two different leagues. And in relation to being in the trenches that is where Giroud does his best work. Although his passes were a bit off against Villa. I think Arsenal can do better and should try to upgrade the striker position because they have to compete against the Super clubs of Europe and England for honors. But that doesn't change the fact that I think Giroud is a good premier league striker. The one thing I think he needs to improve on is to be a bit more direct and have a go more often from 18-25 yards out. He has a good left foot strike but he rarely lets it go from that range. He scores pretty much every goal inside the box. The difference between him scoring 10-15 goals in the premier league and getting 15-20 could be a better utilization of his left foot. He is very unselfish so in those situations he usually looks for a through ball or lay off to a midfielder sometimes he should just turn and fire.

1. Giroud
2. Adebayor
3. Torres

The rest of them are just pretty awful players.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Our form in the last 18 games is - won 3, scored 14, conceded 37.

In those 18 games we've had plenty of "6 pointers" with teams around us. He doesn't always win the big games. We lost at home to a Fulham side who lost 6-0 to Hull and 4-1 at home to Sunderland.

There has been nothing this season to suggest Hughton can do anything to turn it round. He isn't a motivational manager who can get players fired up, he isn't a tactical genius who can change games. He's nothing.

And it's got vitriolic in the stands. This Saturday against Hull, it's gonna be bad.

He has to go, I'm sorry I've watched my team under him for nearly two years now, and we're going down under him, I've seen relegation too many times and this is what it feels like. I don't care who comes in, because quite simply with the talent we have he can't do any worse than what Hughton is doing. Genuinely can't. Unless of course we appoint Calderwood, at which point I will never go to another Norwich game

[mystiroakey]

In actual fact Socal the striker that has scored the most goals from London who is in the PL now over the last coupl of years in Murray with over 30 goals.

Ok we have to cross him out because he scored them in the Championship. BUt he scored them and hasnt started one game this season.

Walcott is actually the best striker(when he has played in that position) in london that has played in the PL. but as he rarely plays there maybe he should be included.

Giroud is a good player and quite effective.

But if I was a top club I would personally rather have carrol or torres. For potential.

Giroud will never be a Rooney or a RVP or a Suraez or an aguero. The other two have potential to be at the top

[Dolphin Ziggler]

And on those strikers, I'd take Carroll over every striker in London, but Giroud wouldn't work in a team outside of the top 6, 7 or 8. Giroud is a better player, but I wouldn't want to see him in the trenches with me.

For all sides, currently, I'd have Giroud, Carroll, Soldado, Torres, Eto'o. I just like Soldado's touch and movement, if Tottenham don't work it out with him then he'll score bucketloads when he moves.

If Adebayor could be motivated for a long period of time then I might have him over all of them. But he cant.

Giroud is a great target man like Carroll is a better passer and has a good left foot and decent first touch. The guy is an established french international and plays at a major club for a reason. Soldado is off form and has not shown outside of a couple of seasons of La liga that he is this great striker while Giroud has proven himself in two different leagues. And in relation to being in the trenches that is where Giroud does his best work. Although his passes were a bit off against Villa. I think Arsenal can do better and should try to upgrade the striker position because they have to compete against the Super clubs of Europe and England for honors. But that doesn't change the fact that I think Giroud is a good premier league striker. The one thing I think he needs to improve on is to be a bit more direct and have a go more often from 18-25 yards out. He has a good left foot strike but he rarely lets it go from that range. He scores pretty much every goal inside the box. The difference between him scoring 10-15 goals in the premier league and getting 15-20 could be a better utilization of his left foot. He is very unselfish so in those situations he usually looks for a through ball or lay off to a midfielder sometimes he should just turn and fire.

1. Giroud
2. Adebayor
3. Torres

The rest of them are just pretty awful players.

All well and good, but he has a specific style and type of play that wouldnt suit a lower half English side. He isnt fast, doesnt work the channels, isnt really a target man (if you think Giroud compares to Carroll as a target man then I dont know what to say). He is smart, a decent finisher, good passer and suits Arsenal very well, but he wouldnt get in my West Ham team over Carroll.

And the bit in bold is a nonsense.

[mystiroakey]

Our form in the last 18 games is - won 3, scored 14, conceded 37.  

In those 18 games we've had plenty of "6 pointers" with teams around us. He doesn't always win the big games. We lost at home to a Fulham side who lost 6-0 to Hull and 4-1 at home to Sunderland.

There has been nothing this season to suggest Hughton can do anything to turn it round. He isn't a motivational manager who can get players fired up, he isn't a tactical genius who can change games. He's nothing.

And it's got vitriolic in the stands. This Saturday against Hull, it's gonna be bad.

He has to go, I'm sorry I've watched my team under him for nearly two years now, and we're going down under him, I've seen relegation too many times and this is what it feels like. I don't care who comes in, because quite simply with the talent we have he can't do any worse than what Hughton is doing. Genuinely can't. Unless of course we appoint Calderwood, at which point I will never go to another Norwich game

If i was a fan of Norwich I would feel exactly the same way. Because i feel although you may not do that much better in the long run with another manager(a manager you can actually sign off course) you may get that buzz back and actually be a team that could benefit from a honeymoon period.

But the truth is as an outsider I like Houghton. I think he has potential. BUt if he is showing signs of pressure- like Holloway who completely lost it and couldn't see the woods for the trees. Maybe clubs should think about these things differently. Give him a 4 week break. Let the assistant take over , then he may come back fresh.. This is something I have thought about before. I think it could work in certain cases

[Dolphin Ziggler]

In actual fact Socal the striker that has scored the most goals from London who is in the PL now over the last coupl of years in Murray with over 30 goals.

Ok we have to cross him out because he scored them in the Championship. BUt he scored them and hasnt started one game this season.

Walcott is actually the best striker(when he has played in that position) in london that has played in the PL. but as he rarely plays  there maybe he should be included.

Giroud is a good player and quite effective.

But if I was a top club I would personally rather have carrol or torres. For potential.

Giroud will never be a Rooney or a RVP or a Suraez or an aguero. The other two have potential to be at the top

Not for me, Walcott doesnt look right from the middle. All about using the wing to come in, attacking space created by others or pulling defences wide. His close play isn't good enough to lead a line so it would be pace or nothing.

Torres' potential is gone. For potential I'd go Carroll or Walcott (who could yet get it down and be a very good striker).

I would love Ba to leave Chelsea and remind everyone how good he is too. Whereas I don't think Torres or Eto'o can find past glory, Ba has it in him to fire em in very consistently. Chelsea are lucky they didnt offload Ba to Arsenal, because him and Giroud as Arsenal's two options would have been very dangerous.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The best of em all is loaned out to Everton. Oh Romelu.   

[Hammersmith harrier]

It is quite odd that the top eight strikers in the league all play up north; Suarez, Sturridge, Rooney, Van Persie, Aguerro, Negredo, Lukaku and Remy.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Well that's the thing Mysti, he is showing signs of pressure. Becchio hadn't had a look in all season, went to the papers to moan, suddenly next game he plays. Hughton buckled to the pressure.

He also did it with Hoolahan. Fans calling for him to play, couple of stories about discontent in the press, suddenly Hoolahan is playing.

He has about as much potential as my career as a pornstar. He could be a decent director of football or scout I reckon, he seems to be able to scout a player, but as a manager he's not good enough

[owen10ozzy]

I'm not looking at Cup form; it's something you could do without atm anyway and I don't think it impacts clubs such as Norwich that much when it comes to the league. Lets take a look at your results against the bottom half this season:

@Palace 1-1
Fulham 1-2
@Sunderland 1-1
Swansea 1-1
@West Brom 2-0
Palace 1-0
West Ham 3-1
Cardiff 0-0
@Stoke 1-0
Villa 0-1

I count 4 wins there from 10 with 2 defeats...Also regards the amount of goals you have conceded; lest we forget that a vast chunk of those goals game against City 7-0, Arsenal 4-1, Liverpool 5-1 ...all three the highest scoring teams in the league this season. Take those thumpings away and you've conceded 19 goals this season! Which is not a bad record at all!

You've only lost to Fulham & Aston Villa from the bottom half of table!! I wouldn't complain too much about that!

Just my opinion but I honestly think if you sack Hughton you go down...keep him and you'll have discontent but your team will do just about enough to cling on and stay up. Then come the summer the situation can be resolved with someone in line to come in and replace him if that's what the board choose to do. Sack him now you run the risk of bringing someone in for the sake of it...something I think WBA have done with Melo! Mackay isn't available atm...so who else do you bring in?

[mystiroakey]

Well that's the thing Mysti, he is showing signs of pressure. Becchio hadn't had a look in all season, went to the papers to moan, suddenly next game he plays. Hughton buckled to the pressure.

He also did it with Hoolahan. Fans calling for him to play, couple of stories about discontent in the press, suddenly Hoolahan is playing.

He has about as much potential as my career as a pornstar. He could be a decent director of football or scout I reckon, he seems to be able to scout a player, but as a manager he's not good enough

yep that is a classic sign of losing your focus and becoming insecure about doing your job= correctly

Its why you cant fault the top managers like Molurinhio, fergie and Wenger. They stick to there guns allways.

[GSC]

Christ Torres still has potential

[mystiroakey]

Christ Torres still has potential

He does dude. He could get it back. To much quality in there. He just needs a good women to get him focused again. ...

Actually thinking about it- Maybe a good man!

[owen10ozzy]

Christ Torres still has potential

He does dude. He could get it back. To much quality in there. He just needs a good women to get him focused again. ...

Actually thinking about it- Maybe a good man!

What he needs are his legs from back in 08-09; oh and his confidence too! The guy is never getting back to anywhere approaching his best, his confidence is shot to bits and his pace & acceleration are no longer there...since he has no Plan B to his game his chances of recapturing his glory years are gone. It's becoming the most tiresome line 'oh Torres could be finding his form again' every time he gets a goal against Hull or a club alike.

[socal1976]

In actual fact Socal the striker that has scored the most goals from London who is in the PL now over the last coupl of years in Murray with over 30 goals.

Ok we have to cross him out because he scored them in the Championship. BUt he scored them and hasnt started one game this season.

Walcott is actually the best striker(when he has played in that position) in london that has played in the PL. but as he rarely plays  there maybe he should be included.

Giroud is a good player and quite effective.

But if I was a top club I would personally rather have carrol or torres. For potential.

Giroud will never be a Rooney or a RVP or a Suraez or an aguero. The other two have potential to be at the top

I never claimed he is Rooney, RVP, Suarez, or Aguero. These players are world class strikers probably top 10 in the world. Giroud in my mind can develop to be a striker that scores a goal every other game in the premier league. That is pretty elite in itself. I think Theo would be a great striker but as you said he plays as a winger and last year he did manage 21 goals in all comps from that position. Giroud is a very good target man he wins damn near every ball punted down to him and he wins a lot of knockdowns. The problem we have had at Arsenal is that our midfielders and wingers don't react and anticipate a lot of those flicks because frankly that is not a style that they are used to playing. Carroll had a great season before he came to Liverpool, he failed miserably at a big club and Giroud has succeeded for the most part. All these hypotheticals about how good Giroud would be at bottom half team are really silly, it is just speculation, if my auntie had balls she would be my uncle as the saying goes. And frankly I wouldn't wager much on Carrol becoming an RVP or Suarez so the potential argument means really nothing to me. Torres has potential, Torres is older than Giroud and has his best days behind him about 4 or 5 years behind him. Of the three potential players you mentioned I think Giroud can improve the most and has the most potential for future success.

[socal1976]

Christ Torres still has potential

He does dude. He could get it back. To much quality in there. He just needs a good women to get him focused again. ...

Actually thinking about it- Maybe a good man!

What he needs are his legs from back in 08-09; oh and his confidence too! The guy is never getting back to anywhere approaching his best, his confidence is shot to bits and his pace & acceleration are no longer there...since he has no Plan B to his game his chances of recapturing his glory years are gone. It's becoming the most tiresome line 'oh Torres could be finding his form again' every time he gets a goal against Hull or a club alike.

Ditto.

[mystiroakey]

To be fair Torres potential is a bit of a weak argument because he is 29.... I have made that point myself so i am having a pop at you.. But when you get older like me or you you just forget these lads ages sometimes.. It only seemed like yesterday that he was banging in goal after goal for Liverpool!

Carroll worries me, but for me a risk worth taking. You know what you are getting from Giroud. Solid professional. BUt nothing stand out.

I know this is a London only debate.

BUt out of the class 2 strikers who would you take,

wellbeck,
benteke,
sturridge,
giroud,
carrol,

[It Must Be Love]

I know this is technically off topic; but wow Bayern Munich really are parasites when it comes to the transfer market.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I'm not looking at Cup form; it's something you could do without atm anyway and I don't think it impacts clubs such as Norwich that much when it comes to the league.

Sorry Owen but this is absolute rubbish. I saw the effect it had last season, we lost at home to Luton in the cup at the end of January, then we went on a run of only 2 wins in about 15 games. In fact I could go back to the Aston Villa Capital One Cup Quarter Final home tie in Mid December when we lost 4-1 at home, then won only about 4 of the next 23 games iirc. Winning breeds confidence, and a winning culture. Losing doesn't do anything but destroy morale and confidence.

Lets take a look at your results against the bottom half this season:

@Palace 1-1
Fulham 1-2
@Sunderland 1-1
Swansea 1-1
@West Brom 2-0
Palace 1-0
West Ham 3-1
Cardiff 0-0
@Stoke 1-0
Villa 0-1

I count 4 wins there from 10 with 2 defeats...Also regards the amount of goals you have conceded; lest we forget that a vast chunk of those goals game against City 7-0, Arsenal 4-1, Liverpool 5-1 ...all three the highest scoring teams in the league this season. Take those thumpings away and you've conceded 19 goals this season! Which is not a bad record at all!

You can't just take away results, they all count. If we can do that, I'll just take away the WBA win, the wins over West Ham and Palace at home, add in the loss to Hull away and oh look it's not so good now.

I'll add in the Hull away game, a cos that is a results from games against teams around us. So from those 11 games we would have 16 points from 11 games. Not bad, but then if we add in the other 10 games we've played so far this year against the rest of the league, we have 20 points overall. So from those 10 games we have 4 points. 20 pts from 21 games is relegation form.

Just my opinion but I honestly think if you sack Hughton you go down...keep him and you'll have discontent but your team will do just about enough to cling on and stay up. Then come the summer the situation can be resolved with someone in line to come in and replace him if that's what the board choose to do. Sack him now you run the risk of bringing someone in for the sake of it...something I think WBA have done with Melo! Mackay isn't available atm...so who else do you bring in?

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm not saying changing the manager won't mean we will automatically stay up, it's a risk. But for me, and pretty much 90% of Norwich fans it's one worth taking, because I can see we will be going down if we keep Hughton in charge. And I really don't wanna be sitting on this forum come May saying I told you so!!

But our board won't sack him. They're pretty patient, and in the past it's been for worse (I'm looking at the Worthy/Roeder days)

[It Must Be Love]

BUt out of the class 2 strikers who would you take,

wellbeck,
benteke,
sturridge,
giroud,
carrol,

Sturridge and Giroud

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Anyways this tweet from one of the local reporters sums it up for me

Michael Bailey ‏@michaeljbailey
Couple of quick points. First #ncfc appear to have lost all the things they were good at last season - and improved none of their failings.

Michael Bailey ‏@michaeljbailey
Second, it was so obvious when #ncfc signed RVW they'd need to work their attacking philosophy around him... 1/2

Michael Bailey ‏@michaeljbailey
...And currently, City don't have an attacking philosophy at all. #ncfc 2/2

I'll respond to anything in the morning, I'm off to watch the 11/12 season review DVD

[Liam]

I think when other fans look at the Clarke sacking and the majority of Norwich fans wanting Houghten out, we see it as bonkers at face value. They're honest, promising coaches who deep down we and their fans want to succeed.

But Olly is watching Norwich week in week out at Norwich and its not just poor results, its obviously the performances and tactics that are awful as well, and I think when fans start talking about these kinds of things, you know they must talking sense. I've mentioned my mate in Uni who's family and himself are season ticket holders at WBA and I couldn't believe it when they were calling for clarke, even last season to be sacked. He told me what was wrong and I sat and watched a few games with him and he was spot on about Clarke. Think we need to take clubs like Norwich's and WBA's fans opinions seriously as they'll know far more than I, as a Utd fan, will do about Norwich every day of the week.

[socal1976]

To be fair Torres potential is a bit of a weak argument because he is 29.... I have made that point myself so i am having a pop at you.. But when you get older like me or you you just forget these lads ages sometimes.. It only seemed like yesterday that he was banging in goal after goal for Liverpool!

Carroll worries me, but for me a risk worth taking. You know what you are getting from Giroud. Solid professional. BUt nothing stand out.

I know this is a London only debate.

BUt out of the class 2 strikers who would you take,

wellbeck,
benteke,
sturridge,
giroud,
carrol,

Wellbeck and Sturridge would be one and two and Giroud would be #3. Carrol would be dead last. The only reason I give Wellbeck the nod over Giroud is because he is younger. As a complete player right now I actually think Giroud is better than Wellbeck when you factor in his assists. Benteke is having a terrible year but I think with a better midfield he would be very good he is lacking some service. Carrol has had exactly 13 goals in the last 3 seasons combined. Anyone who thinks this guy is a caterpillar soon to flower into a butterfly is a little off their rocker in my mind.

[socal1976]

BUt out of the class 2 strikers who would you take,

wellbeck,
benteke,
sturridge,
giroud,
carrol,

Sturridge and Giroud

I agree but since Wellbeck is young I think in a couple of years he will be better but right now I think Giroud and Sturridge the best of this bunch. And in terms of the original question no doubt Giroud is the best striker in London.

[mystiroakey]

If you are at the bottom you understand more Liam.

When you never have a chance of relegation and your team has amazing players and in most cases your bench would start at every bottom half team it's easy for you to say , what's the point in changing the manager . You don't have the players.

But there are effectively 2 divisions in the pl and the bottom half are actually closer to the top half of the championship than the top half of the PL.

[Liam]

If you are at the bottom you understand more Liam.

When you never have a chance of relegation and your team has amazing players and in most cases your bench would start at every bottom half team it's easy for you to say , what's the point in changing the manager . You don't have the players.

But there are effectively 2 divisions in the pl and the bottom half are actually closer to the top half of the championship than the top half of the PL.

Absolutely and I've learnt that since actually listening to the views of my WBA uni friend. Its quite clear he understands more about hiring and firing managers etc. So i'll never argue against what he says, maybe offer an alternative view but in fairness, I remember watching the Villa and Norwich games and it was plain for me to see what he'd been saying all along.

[socal1976]

I know this is technically off topic; but wow Bayern Munich really are parasites when it comes to the transfer market.

They are ruining the bundesliga and turning it into a farce. A great league but they are really damaged by Munich buying the best players from their nearest competitors every year. Funny thing is that Munich is not a historic club they were in the second division and were in the shadow of Gladbach till the late 60s. Since the late 60s they have won like 30 league titles and everyone else combined has won like 10.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Slight exaggeration, they've won 21 titles which works out to be less than half in since there renaissance in the late 60's. They have never been in the shadow of Gladbach either, was very even between the two after the inception of the Bundesliga in 1963.

[mystiroakey]

Yes. You need at least two big clubs in a top league. Bundesliga was fighting for the top league crown only a year ago. But do we blame Munich or Dortmund !!!

I would love to hear a Dortmund fan reaction tbh.

It's annoying that the internet can get you in touch to the whole English speaking world and in many cases even non English speaking world. But Germans just don't frequent international sites from my experience.

[owen10ozzy]

Olly - Think your misunderstanding me. Of course you can take away the Palace, Wet Brom results etc just like I did with the higher class teams...but what we are discussing is Hughtons ability to keep the team up. To do this the most important thing is to pick up points against those around you....something which his record shows he has done this season. So out of all of your games this season you look at those against teams in the bottom half...which is what I have done. You don't go looking results against City and the likes because they aren't games you are expected to win!! Or at least they shouldn't be ...if you do think so then you have ideas well above your station...

Those are the records for the bottom 6 teams:

Palace 5-1-5
Sunderland 1-4-7
West Ham 3-4-5
Cardiff 3-4-5
Fulham 6-1-5
Norwich 4-4-3

Interestingly enough Palace were 1-0-4 against the lower teams until Pulis took over...since then 4-1-1! Big improvement. Out of those teams you would be most worried for Sunderland at this stage and for me Fulham also...who whilst picking up the most ones are very poor defensively.

It is definitely going to close this season, with maybe 5 points seperating the bottom 8 teams and I wouldn't like to put money on who goes down but looking at results against those around them and defensive stability I would be worried if I was Sunderland or Fulham fan (who could concede 5 at any given time) I also think Villa are going to get sucked into it and will stick to my pre-season prediction that they will get relegated!

[socal1976]

Slight exaggeration, they've won 21 titles which works out to be less than half in since there renaissance in the late 60's. They have never been in the shadow of Gladbach either, was very even between the two after the inception of the Bundesliga in 1963.

Before the late 60s Gladbach and Munich 1860 were the biggest clubs in Bavaria and the south not Bayern.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Not sure we can use pre 1960's history for a country that was as disjointed as Germany.

[Guest]

Mourinho has done brilliantly with Chelsea - I think it is between Man City & Chelsea for the league - I hope Arsenal keep up their challenge for the title - but I think the other two will finish ahead of them.  Of course fixture pressure could be important dependent on how far they all go in the Champions League & FA cup.

So if the top three will be Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal that leaves one of Liverpool, Everton, Tottenham and Man Utd for the final Champions League spot.  If either Liverpool or Man Utd fail to qualify it could prove disastrous for both - Suarez will surely want out if Liverpool don't qualify, while Rooney will probably go if Man Utd don't qualify.

[socal1976]

Not sure we can use pre 1960's history for a country that was as disjointed as Germany.

My point is that they won their first league title in the late 60s and have basically owned the league to such an extent that it is damaging to the league as a whole. In the Universe of Big Super clubs they are a recent addition, that is not a bad thing in itself it is just that there is no serious rival to them that can maintain a challenge. United has dominated the EPL but they have always had one or two serious competitors that could match them. And now in the EPL you have 4 or 5 clubs that can at least challenge for the title. Look at the drop off between Munich to Leverkusen who is I think in second place in the Bundesliga or they were up until a couple of weeks ago. I think Everton or Spurs would beat Leverkusen.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Most of the elite clubs hit it big with the introduction of the European cup, I don't think Bayern are any different in that regard.

[Mat]

I think when other fans look at the Clarke sacking and the majority of Norwich fans wanting Houghten out, we see it as bonkers at face value. They're honest, promising coaches who deep down we and their fans want to succeed.

But Olly is watching Norwich week in week out at Norwich and its not just poor results, its obviously the performances and tactics that are awful as well, and I think when fans start talking about these kinds of things, you know they must talking sense. I've mentioned my mate in Uni who's family and himself are season ticket holders at WBA and I couldn't believe it when they were calling for clarke, even last season to be sacked. He told me what was wrong and I sat and watched a few games with him and he was spot on about Clarke. Think we need to take clubs like Norwich's and WBA's fans opinions seriously as they'll know far more than I, as a Utd fan, will do about Norwich every day of the week.

I think this is the most sensible post I've seen about the sacking of Clarke/potential sacking of Hughton(except for mine and Olly's, obviously!) Not blaming anyone for this but at the end of the day, unless you are a fan of that club, you only ever really notice the good results they have-hence why Nick always talks about how could we sack Clarke when he won at Old Trafford/Drew with Arsenal/Got robbed at Chelsea. Bad results, and moreover bad performances, don't really get noticed that much.

Some would say our sacking of Clarke, and Olly wanting Hughton gone, is knee-jerk but I'd disagree. Clubs at the top end of the table can afford to have a bad season or a bad run of results, they won't go down because of it. Clubs like Albion and Norwich will.

[owen10ozzy]

I think when other fans look at the Clarke sacking and the majority of Norwich fans wanting Houghten out, we see it as bonkers at face value. They're honest, promising coaches who deep down we and their fans want to succeed.

But Olly is watching Norwich week in week out at Norwich and its not just poor results, its obviously the performances and tactics that are awful as well, and I think when fans start talking about these kinds of things, you know they must talking sense. I've mentioned my mate in Uni who's family and himself are season ticket holders at WBA and I couldn't believe it when they were calling for clarke, even last season to be sacked. He told me what was wrong and I sat and watched a few games with him and he was spot on about Clarke. Think we need to take clubs like Norwich's and WBA's fans opinions seriously as they'll know far more than I, as a Utd fan, will do about Norwich every day of the week.

I think this is the most sensible post I've seen about the sacking of Clarke/potential sacking of Hughton(except for mine and Olly's, obviously!) Not blaming anyone for this but at the end of the day, unless you are a fan of that club, you only ever really notice the good results they have-hence why Nick always talks about how could we sack Clarke when he won at Old Trafford/Drew with Arsenal/Got robbed at Chelsea. Bad results, and moreover bad performances, don't really get noticed that much.

Some would say our sacking of Clarke, and Olly wanting Hughton gone, is knee-jerk but I'd disagree. Clubs at the top end of the table can afford to have a bad season or a bad run of results, they won't go down because of it. Clubs like Albion and Norwich will.

Agreed; but can clubs of your stature afford to sack managers mid-season....have the costs of paying them off, replacing them, the backroom staff and ultimately reshuffling the team all over again (especially when sacking comes in January & new manager will bring in 3/4 last minute players, which inevitable always happens) on the basis that he 'might' keep you up? Lets be honest the odds are he as much chance as Hughton does in keeping them up. I could understand the sacking if Norwich had lost 6 on the trot and were being beat by the likes of Cardiff etc...but they aren't! Since the defeat to Villa in Sept they haven't lost to any of the lower half teams!!

Like I said to Olly; I'm not saying he shouldn't be sacked, I have seen them a coupe of times this season and the football has been pretty poor, they don't seem to have improved since last season and Hughton looks a little unsure. However the time to do it, in my opinion, isn't now. There is no one else out there who is going to come in and make a vast difference in my opinion.

Regards Clarke, I think the thing was that the sacking seemed unfair given what he achieved. The basis was that they had performed poor since the turn of January last year....the fact is that for the 6 months previous to that they were batting well above their stations. The likes of WBA, Swansea, Norwich, Fulham etc are always going to have decent seasons and tough seasons in a league such as this. They don't have the financial clout to really consistently push into Top 8 and the league is so close from there downwards that you can find yourself in a relegation fight at any given time. This is a fact that modern day fans have to begin to realise! It happened with Newcastle...it can certainly happen to anyone else. You either accept that fact and the rollercoaster it brings or you begin to get impatient when your not sat 12th...force the club into changes and run the risk of turning out like Southampton, Pompey, Leeds etc who cried havoc as soon as they finished lower than the previous year and ended up getting into financial risk, made to many changes to quickly and ultimately paid the price!

[nasisillmatic]

I think when other fans look at the Clarke sacking and the majority of Norwich fans wanting Houghten out, we see it as bonkers at face value. They're honest, promising coaches who deep down we and their fans want to succeed.

But Olly is watching Norwich week in week out at Norwich and its not just poor results, its obviously the performances and tactics that are awful as well, and I think when fans start talking about these kinds of things, you know they must talking sense. I've mentioned my mate in Uni who's family and himself are season ticket holders at WBA and I couldn't believe it when they were calling for clarke, even last season to be sacked. He told me what was wrong and I sat and watched a few games with him and he was spot on about Clarke. Think we need to take clubs like Norwich's and WBA's fans opinions seriously as they'll know far more than I, as a Utd fan, will do about Norwich every day of the week.

I can agree with this, we had the same thing with Hodgson. Everyone outside of the club thought he was treated harshly.

[hampo17]

Howard Webb has been selected by FIFA again for the World Cup. This could cause Socal to have a meltdown

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

David McNally did an interview on Radio Norfolk this morning, here's some quotes..

"@paddyjdavitt: #ncfc DMcN: 'are we disappointed with results? Yes. are we disappointed to be 15th? Yes.'"

"@paddyjdavitt: #ncfc DMcN: 'results are the only thing that matter & whether Chris or I have a long term future here is dictated by results.'"

"@paddyjdavitt: #ncfc DMcN: 'we accept we are in a bit of a trough. But we are down there with 11 other teams.'"

"@paddyjdavitt: #ncfc DMcN: 'the brief to Chris when we were in the bottom 3 earlier on this season was 2 move us the table. There is no change there.'"

"@paddyjdavitt: #ncfc CH: 'I speak to Chris everyday. I haven't had a meeting with him yet today. He is preparing the team for #hcfc.'"

"@paddyjdavitt: #ncfc DMcN even..'we are looking for 5 wins and 5 draws to get to that 40 point mark.'"

"@paddyjdavitt: #ncfc DMcN: 'I would prefer death than relegation. There is nothing more important than keeping our supporters' club in the PL.'"

"@Cricketer_Dan: McNally avoids saying Hughton has the support of the board."

"@Cricketer_Dan: McNally also avoids saying if Hughton will be sacked if we don't beat Hull."

So pretty much if we lose on Saturday he's gone. Fairly obvious he doesn't want to sack Hughton (after all he appointed him, would be admitting failure and McNally is a very stubborn man), but some of the board obviously do.

He also said were looking to buy a player from the lower leagues, but trouble with wages as they are on more than our highest paid player!! Guess would be Rhodes?? Zigic   

"@danohagan: BBC Radio Norfolk text vote 516-34 in favour of Chris Hughton to go. #ncfc"

And if you go on the EDP website its 85%-15% in favour of him going. If that'd been posed two months ago it'd have been 50/50, he's lost the fans.

Its gonna be toxic if we go one down on Saturday

[GSC]

Classic Bayern. Whenever a challenger emerges, they buy up their best players

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Southampton very interesting at the moment. Sounds like time for someone to bid for their better players whilst the turmoil is in the air

[Guest]

I heard on TalkSport that the Soton chairman may leave and the Manager said if that happens he'll go too. Didn't catch the whole story as I was avoiding running people over at the time.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Yeah if Cortese goes, Pochettino has said he'll go, Schneiderlin has as well and apparently Shaw has a clause in his contract that'd be activated if he leaves.

[Guest]

Haha, embarrassing rumours. Shaw having a release clause if the manager goes or Cortese does. Never. Talk about people just throwing more into the story just to make it more interesting. Olly, where you hear that?

[mystiroakey]

Got to feel for Southampton here.

The good guys can never win..

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Good guys?

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