Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

[Crimey]

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Discuss everything Premier League

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Tweeter John lolz

But if the manager goes if cortese leaves, I wouldn't be surprised to see some players wanna go. Osvaldo surely would?

[mystiroakey]

Good guys?

Yeah Southampton develop local talent like no other team in the UK. Now they will lose them all

[owen10ozzy]

Seem's like a volcano waiting to erupt over at Southampton. It was apparently Cortese who pushed for the replacement of Adkins in the first place, a move which the owners by all account's weren't too sure on.

Given the recent slump in form for Southampton, 2 wins in last ten league games, it's little wonder that those at the top may now begin to question the appointment...and given that Cortese was instrumental in bringing Pochettino in it's little wonder who will come in for criticism now.

Their are deep divisions at the club between the Liebherr family and Cortese over how it is being run which is why the Italian banker has offered his resignation.

I would be concerned if I was a Saints fan, they have seen where bad ownership can take you in the past and you'd have to say that Cortese is the man who has been hugely responsible for getting the club back into the Premiership. Worrying times once again for those associated with the club...

For league rivals it's great news as it leaves the likes of Shaw, Lallana, Rodriguez, Ward-Prowse ripe for the pickings!

[CFCNick]

Yes. You need at least two big clubs in a top league. Bundesliga was fighting for the top league crown only a year ago. But do we blame Munich or Dortmund !!!

I would love to hear a Dortmund fan reaction tbh.

It's annoying that the internet can get you in touch to the whole English speaking world and in many cases even non English speaking world. But Germans just don't frequent international sites from my experience.

How about the first home game after the Gotze deal was agreed they held up a banner saying "the pursuit of money is stronger than the heart. F*** off Gotze!"

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Good guys?

Yeah Southampton develop local talent like no other team in the UK. Now they will lose them all

Give it a few years, the well will dry up a bit and they've shown lots of willingness to throw money at names from abroad and be used as a stepping stone club

[J.Benson II]

But if I was a top club I would personally rather have carrol or torres. For potential.
Giroud will never be a Rooney or a RVP or a Suraez or an aguero. The other two have potential to be at the top

Are serious Mysti?
Torres is shot. He has potential to play well once every seven games but thats about it. Chelsea will ditch him this Summer.
Carrol has the potential to improve perhaps, but he will never in a million years reach the heights of Rooney, RVP, Suarez or Aguero. Just no way near talented enough.

BUt out of the class 2 strikers who would you take,

wellbeck,
benteke,
sturridge,
giroud,
carrol,

Sturridge and Benteke. The former is an obvious choice while Benteke, although off-form, has the potential to the best out of the others.

[mystiroakey]

Benteke is a good player. I stated at the start of this season that he was good and among the likes of welbeck and Sturridge.

I was laughed at.

But for the wrong reasons. People said he was much better.he isn't. has the potential to be good as the other two. But if was a betting man. Which I am. I would back the other two to reach bigger heights.

Welbeck is very professional and very versatile. Sturridge has just matured and the sky is the limit for him. Benteke showed that last season but is down in the dumps at the moment. Let's see if he fixes his head. In a Way going through that down spell Sturridge did perhaps.

Carrol is quality. Offers something different. Fingers crossed for him. For me some one that truly has potential. But I am only 30% certain he will reach it. If he had a top class manager and coaching team around him that worked on him he may get there. Otherwise he has to sort his issues out himself.. Not sure he can.

Torres is probably to old to reach his heights again.

But on the other side. Imagine he went to a club where he was the star name . That may give him the confidence to be the big man..

Some players need that tag. And he was up there with the very best. Time is running out though.

[Liam]

Thing is with Carroll you have to fit the whole game plan around him to get the best out of him. The best players can adapt their game and for me, Carroll hasn't got the capabilities to do such a thing. He'll always be a guy who is good in the air and can nod balls down for others. For me, that's all he brings. There are plenty of other big guys out there who are technically better than him and have more to their game. If he wasn't English I doubt there would be so much hype around him.

[GSC]

Thing is with Carroll you have to fit the whole game plan around him to get the best out of him. The best players can adapt their game and for me, Carroll hasn't got the capabilities to do such a thing. He'll always be a guy who is good in the air and can nod balls down for others. For me, that's all he brings. There are plenty of other big guys out there who are technically better than him and have more to their game. If he wasn't English I doubt there would be so much hype around him.

Exactly. Hes a good target man but thats it. Hasn't got the turn of pace or technical ability to be anything more.

And he struggles to stay fit to boot. Hes just not that good

[GSC]

Tbh I also doubt Welbeck will amount to that much. Decent player, but I'm not really sure theres enough to his game for the top level.

[Guest]

Caroll and Wellbeck - both massively over-rated

[mystiroakey]

Welbeck is a very good player,. I remember the last England game he played. Many were slagging him off. but what he did down the left was invaluable.- in a way a very similar player to giroud in the way he is seen. Not outstanding. But top pro and puts a shift in every game..

[mystiroakey]

Thing is with Carroll you have to fit the whole game plan around him to get the best out of him. The best players can adapt their game and for me, Carroll hasn't got the capabilities to do such a thing. He'll always be a guy who is good in the air and can nod balls down for others. For me, that's all he brings. There are plenty of other big guys out there who are technically better than him and have more to their game. If he wasn't English I doubt there would be so much hype around him.

nWell yes he did well playing that role for west ham at the end of last season. BUt if we go back to Newcastle- he did score some great goals as well. Good powerful accurate finisher. Problem is that was yonks ago.

And i wouldnt neccesarily say its becioause he is english there is hype around him.

We hype over players just because they have an exotic name these days. PL players are hyped when they have one good part season or season.This goes for Benteke and carrol

That is why welbeck is underrated- he hasn't ever shone out- But then he has allways been very solid wherever he plays

[Liam]

I don't think Welbeck is overrated. Put's in very good shift when having to play down the left and is technically very good, very skillful also. He's shown when he get's a chance down the middle he knows where the goal is and is also very good at holding the ball up and bringing others into play. He's so much better than Carroll imo but won't become a top player unless Utd really put faith in him to lead the line next season. If RVP is there he will always play second fiddle.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Andy Carroll - You've got to watch him to know how good he is. He's big so his technical ability gets so ignored.

[Liam]

I just don't rate him that highly tbh. He wouldn't get into any of the top 5/6 teams imo, he's a solid mid table club striker, who may get 10/12 goals a season. That's about it.

[compelling and rich]

I just don't rate him that highly tbh. He wouldn't get into any of the top 5/6 teams imo, he's a solid mid table club striker, who may get 10/12 goals a season. That's about it.

if hes stays fit, and thats a big if at the moment.

if he's not playing week in week out he doesnt stay fit, when he's not fit he's awful

[nasisillmatic]

Andy Carroll - You've got to watch him to know how good he is. He's big so his technical ability gets so ignored.

He's a great player on his day, and his attitude and hunger on the pitch is second to none. It's a shame he can't stay fit for a good few months.

[GSC]

Andy Carroll, secretly the next Pele when our backs are turned

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I got belittled for my support of Andy before. Similarly got laughed at for rating Lukaku over Benteke too. Don't see anything thats changed my mind yet

[owen10ozzy]

Lukaku is for me the one who has all the potential to be the next best/biggest striker in the Premiership. He has all of the physical attributes...pace, power etc mixed with a work ethic and great technical ability! I don't buy into this 'oh but can he do it at a big club argument either' because he will only thrive with service from the likes of Ozil, Toure, Nasri, Hazard etc etc.

[nasisillmatic]

Out of interest, how does Lukaku do when he plays for Belgium?

I still can't believe Chelsea let him go on loan.

[J.Benson II]

Benteke is a good player. I stated at the start of this season that he was good and among the likes of welbeck and Sturridge.

I was laughed at.

But for the wrong reasons. People said he was much better.he isn't. has the potential to be good as the other two. But if was a betting man. Which I am. I would back the other two to reach bigger heights.

Welbeck is very professional and very versatile. Sturridge has just matured and the sky is the limit for him. Benteke showed that last season but is down in the dumps at the moment. Let's see if he fixes his head. In a Way going through that down spell Sturridge did perhaps.

Carrol is quality. Offers something different. Fingers crossed for him. For me some one that truly has potential. But I am only 30% certain he will reach it. If he had a top class manager and coaching team around him that worked on him he may get there. Otherwise he has to sort his issues out himself.. Not sure he can.

Torres is probably to old to reach his heights again.

But on the other side. Imagine he went to a club where he was the star name . That may give him the confidence to be the big man..

Some players need that tag. And he was up there with the very best. Time is running out though.

Funnily enough, I also felt Benteke was getting a bit over-rated too, especially when he was being valued at £30m and some people were placing him alongside the likes of Aguero and Suarez.  

However, I still think he is difficult player to defend against and has a strong presence. I would rate him below Sturridge but above Welbeck.

[compelling and rich]

dolph- dont remember many laughing at a lukaku over benetke, all opinions ive seen is many rate lukaku. wasnt much between them last season and lukaku is younger

will admit that i am one to scoff at the carrol praise, and you wont see much of carrol to change your mind because he never plays   

[Dolphin Ziggler]

We better bloody hope he does, Carlton might be the worlds most loveable striker but his knees arent up to much either!

[owen10ozzy]

Out of interest, how does Lukaku do when he plays for Belgium?

I still can't believe Chelsea let him go on loan.

He has 5 in 24 which is by no means prolific, though I do think that both him and Benteke have suffered a little from the repeated rotation of the pair. For some reason the manager doesn't seem keen on starting them together too often....mind you given he has a midfield of Miralles, De Bruyne, Fellaini, Dembele, Hazard, Defour to find room for it is understandable!

[mystiroakey]

I had to back track on your comment Owen.

Fellani.. 

[owen10ozzy]

 I'm confused Mystiroakey?

Are you talking about my comment regards leaving one of Benteke/Lukaku out to accommodate him?

If so you clearly haven't watched much of Belgium national team. Granted Fellaini hasn't been much kop this season but the previous 18 months he was fantastic for Everton and his national side!

[mystiroakey]

I just didn't like him in there with them decent players .

I don't slate many players.the player has to be seriously overrated for that. Fellani is one of them.

[mystiroakey]

But you are right. When you have hazard up there no need for 2 strikers.

By the way has Fellani been playing more forward for Belgium?

Because obviously they do have the one of the best dm's in kompany.

[J.Benson II]

Fellaini isnt a bad player. I think due to the inflated price United payed for him as well as United's struggles this season has made him look worse then he really is.
May still prove to be a useful player for them if given a run of games and finds his confidence.
He had some pretty dominant performances last season for Everton. At least in the air.

[compelling and rich]

Out of interest, how does Lukaku do when he plays for Belgium?

I still can't believe Chelsea let him go on loan.

He has 5 in 24 which is by no means prolific, though I do think that both him and Benteke have suffered a little from the repeated rotation of the pair. For some reason the manager doesn't seem keen on starting them together too often....mind you given he has a midfield of Miralles, De Bruyne, Fellaini, Dembele, Hazard, Defour to find room for it is understandable!

dont forget witsel

[Mad for Chelsea]

It's an odd one Lukaku, every time he's turned out for Chelsea (admittedly not all that often but still...) he's been pretty gash. Hence why we loaned him out. I re-iterate my point that Chelsea's gameplan doesn't really revolve around their strikers scoring, what they do off the ball to create the space for Hazard, Oscar, and Willian is just as important.

For me, Torres is having a very good season, but I suspect you have to watch the Chelsea games throughout (rather than just the MOTD highlights) to appreciate it. This is in no way having a pop at those criticising him BTW, but it's in a sense comparable to what was being discussed earlier with the WBA and NCFC managers situation: only the fans who watch their team week-in, week-out have the full picture of exactly what's going on.

[mystiroakey]

If Fellani and moyes didn't move. Barkley wouldn't have propelled Everton into the team they are. Fellani is part of a golden generation of belgiums . Some of which are quality(kompany and hazard especially) . The rest of them get overrated by default..

[owen10ozzy]

It's an odd one Lukaku, every time he's turned out for Chelsea (admittedly not all that often but still...) he's been pretty gash. Hence why we loaned him out. I re-iterate my point that Chelsea's gameplan doesn't really revolve around their strikers scoring, what they do off the ball to create the space for Hazard, Oscar, and Willian is just as important.

For me, Torres is having a very good season, but I suspect you have to watch the Chelsea games throughout (rather than just the MOTD highlights) to appreciate it. This is in no way having a pop at those criticising him BTW, but it's in a sense comparable to what was being discussed earlier with the WBA and NCFC managers situation: only the fans who watch their team week-in, week-out have the full picture of exactly what's going on.

He was blistering in pre-season Mad for Chelsea; clearly an altogether different prospect than doing it week in week out in the Premiership. I think its massively unfair to say he has been 'gash' for Chelsea given he has only ever had 15 competitive games for them and never really with 'a strong' team around him..often playing in games where the best players are rested/2nd string team has been put out.

If your looking for someone to create space and hold up the ball to allow players to make runs etc...then surely he is the perfect fit? You watch him for Everton & West Brom last year his ball control & hold up play provided those around him with plenty of opportunities to shine.. West Brom's midfield has struggled all season and this year at Everton the wide players and Barkley especially are thriving having Lukaku up front.

I have seen Chelsea plenty of times this season and whilst he certainly isn't completely guff I definitely dont think he is having a 'very good season'. I'm growing tiresome of this 'oh but he works hard for the team' line....if that's all your going to judge him on they why pay £50 million...can get plenty of players who will do the same but for a lot less...Crouch springs to mind! He has had a few decent games here and there but they are sporadic at best and on many occasions he is just so wasteful...not to mention not even in the right places to get on the end of things.

[mystiroakey]

I think Torres has deffo had his best calender year for Chelsea

[J.Benson II]

It's an odd one Lukaku, every time he's turned out for Chelsea (admittedly not all that often but still...) he's been pretty gash. Hence why we loaned him out. I re-iterate my point that Chelsea's gameplan doesn't really revolve around their strikers scoring, what they do off the ball to create the space for Hazard, Oscar, and Willian is just as important.

For me, Torres is having a very good season, but I suspect you have to watch the Chelsea games throughout (rather than just the MOTD highlights) to appreciate it. This is in no way having a pop at those criticising him BTW, but it's in a sense comparable to what was being discussed earlier with the WBA and NCFC managers situation: only the fans who watch their team week-in, week-out have the full picture of exactly what's going on.

I've seen all Chelsea's games that were televised on BT Sport including their last two games against Derby and Hull. Even though he scored in both, I wasnt really impressed with his performance in either. He didnt do anything that any other decent PL foward could have done and just looks a shadow of the player he once was. As Ozzy said, you can't say he's having a "very good season" just because he does things plenty of the cheaper and more basic players can do. He is a better option than Eto and Ba but thats hardly much praise.

If Fellani and moyes didn't move. Barkley wouldn't have propelled Everton into the team they are. Fellani is part of a golden generation of belgiums . Some of which are quality(kompany and hazard especially) . The rest of them get overrated by default..

The thing is, Fellani wasnt just rated highly because he was from Belguim, he was rated highly because he did have a strong season with Everton last year. Barkley, who I actually really like, is probably the one being over-rated now.

[mystiroakey]

Not sure- everton look a much better team without fellani and with barkley


its really that simple

[NickisBHAFC]

United never ever should of brought Fellani. 100% not good enough.

[Hammersmith harrier]

A few of the Belgians are grossly over rated aside from Hazard and Kompany wouldn't say they are anything special.

[socal1976]

Howard Webb has been selected by FIFA again for the World Cup. This could cause Socal to have a meltdown

Howard webb is a genius like Isaac Newton compared to Mike Dean.

[socal1976]

A few of the Belgians are grossly over rated aside from Hazard and Kompany wouldn't say they are anything special.

I disagree Lukaku and Miralles are very good and I also rate Mignolet in the net as well. Do I think they will win the cup, absolutely not but I think they will be in the knock out phases and maybe win a round there as well. Best belgium team I ever recall.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Thing is Socal I made a very clear distinction, being very good doesn't make you a special player, Suarez, Ronaldo, Messi, Van Persie and Ribery are special players. Mirallas and Lukaku don't belong in the top tier talents of which in an attacking sense only Hazard of the Belgians does.

[socal1976]

I am left scratching my head, Giroud scores 17 goals last year and has buttload of assists Carroll scores 13 goals in the LAST THREE YEARS COMBINED and some are saying that they would rather have Carroll? The guy is English that is why some rate him because really there is no logical basis to put Carroll in Giroud's league.

[mystiroakey]

lukuka isnt even on par with many english strikers(and we do not have a depth of talent there)

Just a good player- 10 to a penny .Potential yes. Good yeah, better than what the opposition has- No

[socal1976]

Thing is Socal I made a very clear distinction, being very good doesn't make you a special player, Suarez, Ronaldo, Messi, Van Persie and Ribery are special players. Mirallas and Lukaku don't belong in the top tier talents of which in an attacking sense only Hazard of the Belgians does.

Can agree with that they certainly aren't in that class. And I also don't think Belgium is going to win the thing or get to the final but don't you think they are probably going to make it out of their group?

[socal1976]

lukuka isnt even on par with many english strikers(and we do not have a depth of talent there)

Just a good player- 10 to a penny .Potential yes. Good yeah, better than what the opposition has- No

Lukaku is better than Welbeck.

[Hammersmith harrier]

To be honest I can't remember who's in there group, I don't look at the Belgian squad and feel envious aside from Hazard and Kompany they aren't much if any better than the english players.

[mystiroakey]

lukuka isnt even on par with many english strikers(and we do not have a depth of talent there)

Just a good player- 10 to a penny .Potential yes. Good yeah, better than what the opposition has- No

Lukaku is better than Welbeck.

on what basis?

you just stated that others are crazy for saying carrol is better than giroud..

I can use your argument against that back at you in this case.

Lukaka is ok. Insane to say he is special. You are very guilty of overrating him. Probably because he isnt English
!

[Hammersmith harrier]

Welbeck and Lukaku are too different to compare, they offer completely different things to their teams, goal scoring wise very little between them but think Welbeck is the technically better player.

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