Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

by **Crimey** Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:22 am

First topic message reminder :

Discuss everything Premier League

by Fernando Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:16 pm

You could use some Bebe in your life, Played well vs Braga who are Europa League standard so good practice for next year

by socal1976 Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:18 pm

J.Benson II wrote:Result wasn't really any surprise. I think it was one of the few times in which a match between Chelsea and United was being viewed as such a formality beforehand.
Funnily enough, United actually played alright with the exception of their defence but Chelsea would have always found a way to win. Jose always finds a way.
Rooney was obviously a big loss but United were fortunate last year to get a full season out of RVP. As Arsenal fans will confirm, the Dutchman being out injured was a more common sight for them than seeing his name on the team sheet.

I agree, I was not surprised by this result. Without both Rooney and RVP the rest of the team is very ordinary. Playing on the road to an in form Chelsea and without their two best attackers they were really poor. That being said it shows how much United are overreliant on those two. Plus the defending and closing down in the midfield was really shocking, Rooney and RVP won't help you there. Bit unlucky with the first goal but they got opened up way too easily on the last two.

If United don't want Hernandez they should sell him to Arsenal. The guy gets goals whenever given the opportunity and is so smart with his movement off the ball that he rarely has to do more than put one average touch on the ball to score.

by mystiroakey Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:23 pm

Rvp is world class agreed.

But there is also a factor. The PL teams had a big blip in performance last year.

We all noticed it and the CL showing proved it.
Now teams have moved on . man u has only gone backwards with moyes. Your manager is as if not more important than your best player. Pulis has shown me that!!!

Citeh is in the best shape ever.
Chelsea have morinhio back. Who has the best record v top sides
Liverpool have a world class suraez and also a very good sturridge on fire. They also have youth that is getting better week in week out.
Arsernal for once haven't lost there best players yet gained one in ozil...
Tottenham although lost a valuable asset bought to try and maintain there position. They have slightly moved forward for me but not at the rate the others have.
Evertons loss seems to be there gain. Martinez looks like he has been there all his life and Barkley being promoted with the loss of fellani is the equivalent of signing a new player.

by The Special Juan Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:27 pm

Can someone explain how bad Leverkusen are then?

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:29 pm

socal1976 wrote:
J.Benson II wrote:Result wasn't really any surprise. I think it was one of the few times in which a match between Chelsea and United was being viewed as such a formality beforehand.
Funnily enough, United actually played alright with the exception of their defence but Chelsea would have always found a way to win. Jose always finds a way.
Rooney was obviously a big loss but United were fortunate last year to get a full season out of RVP. As Arsenal fans will confirm, the Dutchman being out injured was a more common sight for them than seeing his name on the team sheet.

I agree, I was not surprised by this result. Without both Rooney and RVP the rest of the team is very ordinary. Playing on the road to an in form Chelsea and without their two best attackers they were really poor. That being said it shows how much United are overreliant on those two. Plus the defending and closing down in the midfield was really shocking, Rooney and RVP won't help you there. Bit unlucky with the first goal but they got opened up way too easily on the last two.

If United don't want Hernandez they should sell him to Arsenal. The guy gets goals whenever given the opportunity and is so smart with his movement off the ball that he rarely has to do more than put one average touch on the ball to score.

Hernandez really wouldn't suit Arsenal, unless they plan to go two up top anytime soon

by mystiroakey Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:29 pm

The bundesliga isnt the PL mate..

Man U are a good side..

Just haven't moved forward, Every other team has been pro active.

I suppose its easy to forget you have to move forward when you are at the top.. Fergie hid problems..

by socal1976 Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:29 pm

Yeah I agree City, Chelsea, Liverpool, and Arsenal are better and due to the injury issues and not bringing in any high quality signings, not only last window but the last couple of years, outside of RVP of course United are weaker. All of the teams you listed are better with the exception of Spurs, I think their last year's side was stronger. They aren't out of the 4th spot race by any means but it will be very difficult for them although they are improving. As for United I just haven't seen them investing the last few years like they used to and it shows in the squad. They are a two man team, without those two they are much closer to Stoke than they are to the Chelsea's of the world.

by socal1976 Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:31 pm

Olly wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
J.Benson II wrote:Result wasn't really any surprise. I think it was one of the few times in which a match between Chelsea and United was being viewed as such a formality beforehand.
Funnily enough, United actually played alright with the exception of their defence but Chelsea would have always found a way to win. Jose always finds a way.
Rooney was obviously a big loss but United were fortunate last year to get a full season out of RVP. As Arsenal fans will confirm, the Dutchman being out injured was a more common sight for them than seeing his name on the team sheet.

I agree, I was not surprised by this result. Without both Rooney and RVP the rest of the team is very ordinary. Playing on the road to an in form Chelsea and without their two best attackers they were really poor. That being said it shows how much United are overreliant on those two. Plus the defending and closing down in the midfield was really shocking, Rooney and RVP won't help you there. Bit unlucky with the first goal but they got opened up way too easily on the last two.

If United don't want Hernandez they should sell him to Arsenal. The guy gets goals whenever given the opportunity and is so smart with his movement off the ball that he rarely has to do more than put one average touch on the ball to score.

Hernandez really wouldn't suit Arsenal, unless they plan to go two up top anytime soon

I think he would, even in a loan striker sets he is a player who takes up smart positions and Arsenal's midfielders could find him, and at times I think he would do well playing off Giroud if we do ever go with two strikers, although frankly we don't really do that much if ever.

by mystiroakey Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:33 pm

Hernadez is a great player-Has scored the most most goals per minute over the last couple of years.

I have no doubt he could benefit Arsernal.

Problem is the PL is so big now.

Teams will only sell abroad and not to rivals.

by GSC Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:43 pm

He's a great predator but he needs to be in a team that's on the front foot and creates a lot of chances because he needs to be carried

by Hammersmith harrier Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:45 pm

Performances like today are the exception rather than the norm with Hernandez, aside from his poaching instincts he doesn't offer anything to a team. The pass to Smalling today is the first time I can remember him making an incisive pass.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:46 pm

GSC wrote:He's a great predator but he needs to be in a team that's on the front foot and creates a lot of chances because he needs to be carried

Yep he can't hold the ball up, and doesn't really make attempts to come short for teammates. Always looking in behind

by The Special Juan Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:47 pm

mystiroakey wrote:The bundesliga isnt the PL mate..

Man U are a good side..

Just haven't moved forward, Every other team has been pro active.

I suppose its easy to forget you have to move forward when you are at the top.. Fergie hid problems..

No but they were being touted as a great team but were found out to be a bunch of mugs. Utd aren't great but they're not "bad" and will probably make the latter stages of the CL.

by The Special Juan Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:50 pm

Sorry, I was distracted during that post and completely forgot the point I was trying to make!!

by mystiroakey Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:50 pm

They still qualifiued out of there group though didnt they?

Doesn't that just prove the point though.

Bayer arnt that bad. Its just the PL has got so much better this year, Man u is a team that has remained stagnant .

by socal1976 Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:11 pm

This year the Bundesliga is one horse race. Dortmund was stronger early in the year but injuries and the lewandowski situation has really impacted them plus they have not recovered from selling Gotze. Still a good side, but Schalke and Leverkusen are a big drop off from Bayern. The Bundesliga is down because Bayern buys the best player off of the next best team each and every year.

by socal1976 Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:38 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Performances like today are the exception rather than the norm with Hernandez, aside from his poaching instincts he doesn't offer anything to a team. The pass to Smalling today is the first time I can remember him making an incisive pass.

I think Arsenal have guys that deliver the killer ball and if he poaches half dozen goals for us in the second half of the season then why not, as long as United wouldn't want an arm and leg. After all he is the 4th striker and would come to Arsenal's second striker. It is not really that ManU and Arsenal are in direct competition. I don't think they think (united) the league title is in the picture and they have to retool their squad for the long run anyway. I'd like him or Michu, Michu has been injured but he started the season really well and would fit our style.

by mystiroakey Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:47 pm

Wilf Bonny is also a player top clubs should look more at me thinks ..

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:10 pm

Hes not made massive shakes down there, but its hard to tell cos Swansea arent anywhere close to their potential due to injuries and that stupid Europa League.

Hernandez would work fine at Arsenal, they create chances all day long. Imagine Cazorla and Ozil looking for the runs Hernandez makes, he'd score bucket loads

by Guest Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:44 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Wilf Bonny is also a player top clubs should look more at me thinks ..

People said the same last season about Michu...how's that working out?

by socal1976 Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:44 am

Michu has been hurt he did great last year and started this year well before the injury he should be fine in the second half of the season. Bony is a good shout as well. I would really prefer if arsenal do buy a striker that it is a player already used to premier league action. If we want to buy in January it means we want immediate help

by nadeem2099 Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:09 pm

would Remy be a good target for Arsenal? I always thought that if he left Marseille it would be to a top 4 club not newcastle.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:23 pm

I think hes top class, did so at the start of the season, one for Tottenham, Arsenal and Everton to keep an eye on for moi. Should Newcastle hold onto him then bravo

by Ent Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:47 pm

Haven't seen the whole game but by many reports it was terrible again from united.

Also a word on moyes, 442 away to Chelsea with no Rooney or rvp- really? Look how mourinho set up his side for the home and away games against us- that is how you do it.

Jones is a terrible cm, doesn't have the basic skills for it- never again. Play him at centre half every game until the end of the season and develop him so by next season he is a top centre half.

Every time you think rafael has nailed down the right back spot he gives a terrible error strewn performance.

by socal1976 Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:52 pm

nadeem2099 wrote:would Remy be a good target for Arsenal? I always thought that if he left Marseille it would be to a top 4 club not newcastle.

I like Remy as well, again the similarity with Michu, Remy, and Hernandez with the premier league is what is key for me. I don't want to get a Soldado who may or may not ever be able to acclimate himself to the English game. Michu is injured so he may not be an immediate help so that throws a wrench in the whole thing unless he will be back in the next few weeks. We need someone who can deliver right now if we do spend some money.

by GSC Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:52 pm

It was at least 4-4-1-1 tbf

Or 4-4-1 given Welbeck was up front

by socal1976 Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:54 pm

Ent wrote:Haven't seen the whole game but by many reports it was terrible again from united.

Also a word on moyes, 442 away to Chelsea with no Rooney or rvp- really? Look how mourinho set up his side for the home and away games against us- that is how you do it.

Jones is a terrible cm, doesn't have the basic skills for it- never again. Play him at centre half every game until the end of the season and develop him so by next season he is a top centre half.

Every time you think rafael has nailed down the right back spot he gives a terrible error strewn performance.

Jones did have a terrible performance in CM, he got abused by Eto for the first goal and Willian and Hazard basically ran right around and by him all day long. If Evans and Jones are the center back pairing of the future what is going to be done with Smalling?

by The Special Juan Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:01 pm

GSC wrote:It was at least 4-4-1-1 tbf

Or 4-4-1 given Welbeck was up front

Danny "8 goals this season in the PL" Welbeck.

by GSC Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:05 pm

I'm more surprised Welbeck has scored 8 goals in his life

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:33 pm

Fuquenelle, Anelka is playing

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:35 pm

I havent seen the whole game but manager got it wrong - not the strongest argument. Jones also won United the game in many ways against Arsenal. From cm.

Not saying I agree with Moyes, but hindsight argument there Ent

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:50 pm

Everton's quality players winning them a dire game so far. Big for the other teams down there, a WBA that dont get the boost from a new manager could really suffer

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:05 pm

Lugano is the slowest player I've ever seen. Makes James Collins look like he's Usain Bolt

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:10 pm

James Collins would be a great act alongside Richard Branson. If Branson was played by Jim Branning

by FootballLight Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:11 pm

It might be tough for Pepe Mel to get his team playing the way he wants. But he is a very balanced character. He shows that not only does he play the attractive football effectively, like at Real Betis, but he also can do the graft and ugly side of the game by defending. Which isn't pleasing on the most part for Baggies fans, although, now Anichebe gives them a different option to Vydra up top. This might just be a 1-1 draw.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:14 pm

Indeed, I like the appointment, but if he struggles at first then momentum and lack of experience in England could be an issue. If they survive this season (and I think they will comfortably) then long term I think he's a steal of an appointment.

by FootballLight Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:16 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Indeed, I like the appointment, but if he struggles at first then momentum and lack of experience in England could be an issue. If they survive this season (and I think they will comfortably) then long term I think he's a steal of an appointment.

Depends on how well he manages his players.

by Ent Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:34 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I havent seen the whole game but manager got it wrong - not the strongest argument. Jones also won United the game in many ways against Arsenal. From cm.

Not saying I agree with Moyes, but hindsight argument there Ent

442 with rvp up top and Rooney dropping back is very different from the weekend.

Jones is alright to stand in from of the defense and make blocks and tackles but not for playing as a genuine midfielder - I've said many times I don't rate him in midfield so nothing hindsight about that.

All discussion and opinions of managers decisions are made in hindsight, not sure what your point is.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:35 pm

Of course, of course.

Clearly the way to get results is for people to moan about certain things. Olly moans about Hughton, they win. Mat sighs at Lugano's involvement, he scores.

Carroll you lanky swine, you'll never score the winner vs Chelsea will you ya big fool!

by socal1976 Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:37 pm

I love it you guys slagging lugano and he pops up to hit in the equalizer. WBA is not that bad, I don't think they have any relegation fears. But United, Spurs, and Liverpool got to love that goal from Lugano.

by socal1976 Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:37 pm

Everton with their backs up against it right now as WBA is playing some nice stuff finally.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:38 pm

Ent wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I havent seen the whole game but manager got it wrong - not the strongest argument. Jones also won United the game in many ways against Arsenal. From cm.

Not saying I agree with Moyes, but hindsight argument there Ent

442 with rvp up top and Rooney dropping back is very different from the weekend.

Jones is alright to stand in from of the defense and make blocks and tackles but not for playing as a genuine midfielder - I've said many times I don't rate him in midfield so nothing hindsight about that.

All discussion and opinions of managers decisions are made in hindsight, not sure what your point is.

One, you didnt see the game so you dont know how well it worked. Two, Moyes doesnt have hindsight he has past performances and training. Three, he's played Januzaj and Welbeck as a rotating solo man really, so its pretty much 4-5-1. Thus, my point is that yours isnt right.

More over, no formation in the world stops the crap way United let in those goals. You could say a better performances stops the pressure, but they did perform well and Chelsea just had the quality to decide the minor details. United couldnt cos their star quality was missing in two forms.

by Ent Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:43 pm

It isn't a good idea to go 442 away from home against a strong Chelsea side, even less with a physically weak 18 year old as the link man. He should have played another centre mid with welbeck on the left and Hernandez up front.

I'm still not sure what point you are making about hindsight, it is the only way we as fans can discuss managers decisions- or should we predict what they are going to do?

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:52 pm

We should realise how easy it is to c*nt people off with that benefit and actually take the mindset of the idea before the game. You're saying with hindsight that Jones isnt good in centre mid, but that wasnt the case against Arsenal.

The best part of you saying its 4-4-2 and me saying its really a 4-5-1 is just how easily it highlights how you cant bracket formations. Hes never once played a 4-4-2 in that game.

You do go on about playing an 18 year old a lot, like its a bad thing. If he's good enough hes old enough. He played Young against Ivanovic as backed up by both commentator and pundit that theres been history of Young terrorising Ivanovic. Welbeck through the middle as hes been scoring and playing well from there. Januzaj centrally as hes currently the best creative link and needs to be on the ball. Plus he drifts between lines fantastically. Valencia on the right is his choice, not one I like, but one most fans of United would have picked Id imagine. Both him and Young get up and down the flank, important against Chelsea.

Jones worked very well in centre mid against another top side performing well. Justifies that.

They matched up to Chelsea by basic tactics/formations.

Most importantly, the better build up and football came from United, the final quality was all Chelsea's. I repeat, the formation doesnt stop the goals.

Youve not answered those points really.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:53 pm

Solid point, but neither will be happy with it.

by socal1976 Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:53 pm

A bit of gap opening up now between the top 3 and the teams fighting for the 4 spot. Really interesting. There are a lot of teams fighting to avoid relegation as the bottom half are all bunched together. There is a second wide open race for the last CL spot with Everton, Liverpool, United, and Spurs in the mix. And then there is a wide open race for the title with City, Arsenal, and Chelsea.

by mystiroakey Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:55 pm

Hehe first winner in a few weeks.

Backed the 1-1

by socal1976 Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:56 pm

United were basically up against it when Rooney and RVP were not fit for the match. Did anyone think they had a hope to beat Chelsea without those two. I mean United are very reliant on those two and without them their team is pretty much midtable. So I don't think I would blame Moyes' tactics. His options were limited. United are a two man team for the most part and those two guys weren't available. If you told me no Rooney, no RVP, and playing Chelsea on the road I would think 3-1 is a pretty unsurprising result.

by mystiroakey Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:57 pm

socal1976 wrote:A bit of gap opening up now between the top 3 and the teams fighting for the 4 spot. Really interesting. There are a lot of teams fighting to avoid relegation as the bottom half are all bunched together. There is a second wide open race for the last CL spot with Everton, Liverpool, United, and Spurs in the mix. And then there is a wide open race for the title with City, Arsenal, and Chelsea.

Yep every team is in one battle or another bar possibly Southampton...

11 teams in the relegation.

3 in the title and 5 for 4th spot

by socal1976 Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:15 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
socal1976 wrote:A bit of gap opening up now between the top 3 and the teams fighting for the 4 spot. Really interesting. There are a lot of teams fighting to avoid relegation as the bottom half are all bunched together. There is a second wide open race for the last CL spot with Everton, Liverpool, United, and Spurs in the mix. And then there is a wide open race for the title with City, Arsenal, and Chelsea.

Yep every team is in one battle or another bar possibly Southampton...

11 teams in the relegation.

3 in the title and 5 for 4th spot

Got to love it as everyone has to keep absolute focus every single week and squeeze out as many points as possible. Nobody is safe in their standings. That is a proper league not a Bundesliga where one team runs away with it by the half way point of the season. Good players and good league but no league right now is as open and as competitive as the EPL.

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