Scrum V Tonight

For those not aware but there is special edition of the programme tonight debating the ongoing row between the WRU and Regions.

Both are to represented in the studio, Roger Lewis is there Gareth Davies is representing the Regions (good choice IMO) don't know how long I can watch without screaming at the tv - not long I doubt.

For what its worth I think both the Union and the Regions are at fault and both have to share the blame and admit things have been done wrong by both sides.

Lets see if it does anything

he is such a slippery fish Roger Lewis. trust him as much as the average politician. just doesn't seem earnest.

Last time we had a special edition Gareth Thomas had a stroke. Hope it's not going to be as heated this time.

lewis said the the 6N are meeting on tuesday and everything is on the table. that sounds positive at least for european competition.

quinsforever wrote:lewis said the the 6N are meeting on tuesday and everything is on the table. that sounds positive at least for european competition.

That does sound promising - good.

Quins, PM for you   

That was a waste of 40 mins. The only new bit of information was the meeting this week. It was amusing when Roger was called for not answering the question and being a politician. And Moffet is always good for a laugh. A proper snake oil salesman. "I have the solution the Wales rugby, subscribe now to be initiated into the 1st circle, only $100k (NZ)"

An interesting debate, but not much new coming out of it. That guy Moffett is hilarious. Exactly the kind of man Wales don't need. Lewis should have just answered the new regions question straight. Other than that he did fairly well in his answers.
The regions need to grow up a bit, and quit with this AW bluff. They know it's not going to happen, and they know that WRU know it's not going to happen, so why bother? Neither is the RCC.
Hopefully Tuesdays meeting brings good news.

Moffet got spoken to rather abruptly which I really enjoyed. Roger is a bit too much like a politician I admit but he got the job done in a way which was to basically tell everyone that the superclubs wont last 2 minutes outside of life with the WRU

Whether of not this would be the case is another thing but given that you had the RFU guy saying an Anglo-Welsh competition would not be sanctioned by the RFU it doesnt look likely they would get far

Personally though id love Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff and Newport to leave Wales and real regions put in to replace them. How the current gruesome 4 that we have got now would fair in England is of no interest to me although it would create less divide in Welsh rugby if they just folded and went away for good

It wont happen though and iv said all along the current 4 superclubs will come out of this smelling of roses unless Roger shows some backbone. Gareth Davies didnt come across very well and if the other mugs at RRW are anything like him they wont go far

Munchkin wrote:An interesting debate, but not much new coming out of it. That guy Moffett is hilarious. Exactly the kind of man Wales don't need. Lewis should have just answered the new regions question straight. Other than that he did fairly well in his answers.
The regions need to grow up a bit, and quit with this AW bluff. They know it's not going to happen, and they know that WRU know it's not going to happen, so why bother? Neither is the RCC.
Hopefully Tuesdays meeting brings good news.

Back on the happy pills?   

I'm still thinking no PRL clubs in Europe and the Regions either dead now or as they are (slowly dying).

Well what a complete waste of time and airspace. Nothing new, pther than meeting announced and nothing to say that an agreement or solution is any closer now than what they have bee.

Early this afternoon a poster on the Os site, who had been at this meeting said that the whole program had lasted 50 minutes, while only 45 minutes were broadcast, when the program was running an OSC Commitee man stated that supplementary questions and responses from the audience were edited out, well done BEEB. They also have on the panel the sacked and disgraced former RFU chairman. I thought it very ironic that not everyone clapped what Paul Rees and Gareth Davies uttered, yet NOT ONE PERSON clapped ANYTHING the Dodger or the former RFU man said. As someone else said Lewis comes across as a Politician, what he said about the Dec 31st deadline, in a way was correct as that date was set at the PA set up, yet he said on a number of occasions in late 2013, that if they did not sign the PA by that date the Regions would cease to exist.
Personally I would quite like Moffet back, this debacle wouldn't have reached this point with him in charge.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Munchkin wrote:An interesting debate, but not much new coming out of it. That guy Moffett is hilarious. Exactly the kind of man Wales don't need. Lewis should have just answered the new regions question straight. Other than that he did fairly well in his answers.
The regions need to grow up a bit, and quit with this AW bluff. They know it's not going to happen, and they know that WRU know it's not going to happen, so why bother? Neither is the RCC.
Hopefully Tuesdays meeting brings good news.

Back on the happy pills?   

I'm still thinking no PRL clubs in Europe and the Regions either dead now or as they are (slowly dying).

Must be the effect of Ulsters win last night   

Haven't a clue what PRL will decide to do, but you may well be right. Having said that, maybe PRL will try and get something out of RFU in exchange for participation?
The Regions are in a bind, and like yourself I don't see much hope for them continuing as they are. Continuing under the control of the WRU maybe. Then again maybe they will recruit Moffett into the ranks once more, and he 'of all knowing' will save them   

Nowt wrong with a bit of optimism Munchkin - quite partial to that myself!

It does make you wander if their will be a Welsh national team come summer time?

No i do not know what the solution is or could be the solution.

I just hope for the sake of NH rugby, the 6ns, the RWC, Wales do find a solution too thier problems. and Fast.

Munchkin, you know I didn't realise you were an Ulsterman until this week. Not really important but I thought you were Leinster or Munster. Congrats on the win. I'd prefer Sarries in the SF but if the English sides get knocked out I'd want Ulster to win.

majesticimperialman wrote:It does make you wander if their will be a Welsh national team come summer time?

No i do not know what the solution is or could be the solution.

I just hope for the sake of NH rugby, the 6ns, the RWC, Wales do find a solution too thier problems. and Fast.

There will be a team of that I have no doubt but what players may fill or at what level those players come from well that is a different matter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25802191

You've probably read it but here's a link to an article about tonight's meeting. As has been pointed out nothing new really.

HammerofThunor wrote:Munchkin, you know I didn't realise you were an Ulsterman until this week. Not really important but I thought you were Leinster or Munster. Congrats on the win. I'd prefer Sarries in the SF but if the English sides get knocked out I'd want Ulster to win.

Thanks, Hammer.

Yep, I'm Ulster through and through. I support the other three provinces until they play us. Then, and only then, do I want to see them take a thrashing.

Really looking forward to Sarries at Ravenhill. We owe them    It will be a tough game no doubt, but one I believe we can win.

Steffan wrote:Moffet got spoken to rather abruptly which I really enjoyed. Roger is a bit too much like a politician I admit but he got the job done in a way which was to basically tell everyone that the superclubs wont last 2 minutes outside of life with the WRU

Whether of not this would be the case is another thing but given that you had the RFU guy saying an Anglo-Welsh competition would not be sanctioned by the RFU it doesnt look likely they would get far

Personally though id love Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff and Newport to leave Wales and real regions put in to replace them. How the current gruesome 4 that we have got now would fair in England is of no interest to me although it would create less divide in Welsh rugby if they just folded and went away for good

It wont happen though and iv said all along the current 4 superclubs will come out of this smelling of roses unless Roger shows some backbone. Gareth Davies didnt come across very well and if the other mugs at RRW are anything like him they wont go far

Real regions like Ponty, sorry Valleys Rugby you mean? Despite all your superclub talk, there is no viable alternative.

majesticimperialman wrote:It does make you wander if their will be a Welsh national team come summer time?

No i do not know what the solution is or could be the solution.

I just hope for the sake of NH rugby, the 6ns, the RWC, Wales do find a solution too thier problems. and Fast.

How can there not be a national team you plum?! Samoa manage it with all of their players abroad. And Argentina with most of theirs away. Ditto Tonga and Fiji.

Why would there be no Welsh international team? Anyone else and I'd think it was a WUM, but in this instance I think you genuinely believe it. Insane!

Griff wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:It does make you wander if their will be a Welsh national team come summer time?

No i do not know what the solution is or could be the solution.

I just hope for the sake of NH rugby, the 6ns, the RWC, Wales do find a solution too thier problems. and Fast.

How can there not be a national team you plum?! Samoa manage it with all of their players abroad. And Argentina with most of theirs away. Ditto Tonga and Fiji.

Why would there be no Welsh international team? Anyone else and I'd think it was a WUM, but in this instance I think you genuinely believe it. Insane!

Griff,

As I said, there will always be a team but if it all goes right up the swanny I can honestly see Lewis and his cronies telling Gatland not to pick any player currently at a Region. I think he is that way inclined and very power crazy to boot.

Risca Rev wrote:Real regions like Ponty, sorry Valleys Rugby you mean? Despite all your superclub talk, there is no viable alternative

I never said I wanted the outcome to be a Ponty region you berk I wanted an East Wales region but then again if it means sharing a region with clowns like you maybe it is not such a good idea. That being said you wouldnt cheer on an East Wales region anyway

Steffan, chill out with the personal stuff- MODS

Bedford and Hammer are right
What was the point in the show, it was all a repeat of what we have heard.
I think Roger Lewis was answering the questions very well until he was very reluctant to answer the new region questions. Don't trust him one bit, and that Mofett saying he can fix it all in 10 days is just laughable.

However it is more clear to me now that before the crisis in welsh rugby can be fixed, the European crisis must be fixed first.
When that will happen who knows and if anyone thinks that all this will be sought out by Tuesday and an agreement will be made then think again.

At this moment in time I just can't  see a solution in all this mess, there are too many things wrong in the  European game to fix everything within one season.

Sorry but did I read above that there was an RFU guy there who said an Anglo welsh league wouldn't be sanctioned by the RFU? That's news if true

The most pertinent point of this evenings program is that the whole crux of this is based on the stalling of decisions on a european competition.

This needs to be settled, everyone needs to know what competitions are available. Glad to see plenty of people are against the McCafferty mockery.

True maes but we all knew that anyway before this pointless programme.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Griff wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:It does make you wander if their will be a Welsh national team come summer time?

No i do not know what the solution is or could be the solution.

I just hope for the sake of NH rugby, the 6ns, the RWC, Wales do find a solution too thier problems. and Fast.

How can there not be a national team you plum?! Samoa manage it with all of their players abroad. And Argentina with most of theirs away. Ditto Tonga and Fiji.

Why would there be no Welsh international team? Anyone else and I'd think it was a WUM, but in this instance I think you genuinely believe it. Insane!

Griff,

As I said, there will always be a team but if it all goes right up the swanny I can honestly see Lewis and his cronies telling Gatland not to pick any player currently at a Region.  I think he is that way inclined and very power crazy to boot.

Lewis has no power to tell anyone who they can or cant pick...

Standulstermen wrote:Sorry but did I read above that there was an RFU guy there who said an Anglo welsh league wouldn't be sanctioned by the RFU? That's news if true

The 'bloke' as you put it was Martyn Thomas the SACKED former head of the RFU, who has an axe to grind, he is nearly as slimy as Lewis.

Ah right. Hadn't a clue who the lineup was.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Griff wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:It does make you wander if their will be a Welsh national team come summer time?

No i do not know what the solution is or could be the solution.

I just hope for the sake of NH rugby, the 6ns, the RWC, Wales do find a solution too thier problems. and Fast.

How can there not be a national team you plum?! Samoa manage it with all of their players abroad. And Argentina with most of theirs away. Ditto Tonga and Fiji.

Why would there be no Welsh international team? Anyone else and I'd think it was a WUM, but in this instance I think you genuinely believe it. Insane!

Griff,

As I said, there will always be a team but if it all goes right up the swanny I can honestly see Lewis and his cronies telling Gatland not to pick any player currently at a Region.  I think he is that way inclined and very power crazy to boot.

Lewis has no power to tell anyone who they can or cant pick...

Does he not Maes, are'nt the WRU Gatlans employers? I admit it would be very unsavoury but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand - after all you did say the PRL didn't have the power to fine Northampton but they did   

Where then would they stand insurance wise, surely the WRU pay the insurance when playing for Wales, would they contunue to do that if the Regions turned their backs on Wales?

There just so many unanswered questions and possible scenarios.

wayne wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Sorry but did I read above that there was an RFU guy there who said an Anglo welsh league wouldn't be sanctioned by the RFU? That's news if true

The 'bloke' as you put it was Martyn Thomas the SACKED former head of the RFU, who has an axe to grind, he is nearly as slimy as Lewis.

The accusations against him were dropped after several people who had put in evidence refused to take part in an inquiry. So the RFU were forced to apologise. But he came across as a bit of knob. He's the one slated by Judge Blackett's report into the RFU and threatened to go to court if it was published.

But yes key is Europe. Once sorted everything can progress with some idea of where people stand.

HammerofThunor wrote:

wayne wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Sorry but did I read above that there was an RFU guy there who said an Anglo welsh league wouldn't be sanctioned by the RFU? That's news if true

The 'bloke' as you put it was Martyn Thomas the SACKED former head of the RFU, who has an axe to grind, he is nearly as slimy as Lewis.

The accusations against him were dropped after several people who had put in evidence refused to take part in an inquiry. So the RFU were forced to apologise. But he came across as a bit of knob. He's the one slated by Judge Blackett's report into the RFU and threatened to go to court if it was published.

But yes key is Europe. Once sorted everything can progress with some idea of where people stand.

Hammer the point I cann't understand is how the Irish and Scots are prepared to get into bed with the French and NOT with the English, when the French and English served notice TOGETHER and now the French stabbed the English in the back in order to get their TV deal, at least the English have been up front all along, not so the French

Thing is the French didn't really stab the English in the back. The RCC was never going to get FFR approval (unless it had everyone's approval). The French were supposed to refuse to play in Europe but it's completely understandable that they bowed to their unions wishes for the extra 2.5M euros each per season. As soon as that became an issue it was obvious what was going to happen.

If the Scots had gone along with the RCC proposal it would be the end of scottish pro rugby and a competitive national side within a few years. The RCC proposal was completely unfair. The french were always more open to negotiation and compromise.

TJ wrote:If the Scots had gone along with the RCC proposal it would be the end of scottish pro rugby and a competitive national side within a few years.  The RCC proposal was completely unfair.  The french were always more open to negotiation and compromise.

Given that they had already agreed to losing the automatic spots and take a smaller share of the money...is Scottish rugby already dead?

The compromise agreed is a significantly better deal than the PRL wanted - and was refused by the PRL. I suspect the PRL will not be offered such a good deal again. It will damage scotttish rugby greatly and could well be fatal if the new european cup is based along these lines however the scots managed to get sufficient protection that it could be manageable.

Wayne - only in PRL propaganda were the french completely aligned with the PRL. I said right from the start is was obvious the french were more amenable to compromise and so it turned out. there was always obvious difference between the french and english clubs

Considering they turned for a bribe of 2.5M euros more TV money each per year and you were saying they just wanted a change in date for the final I think you're over egging your predictive powers (especially since it's not clear that the best LNR teams are unconditionally in yet, I don't read legal French so wouldn't like to say)

If you like Hammer - however it was always clear to me that the french were prepared to compromise and negotiate. They got what they wanted in the negotiations or most of it. A reduction in entrants was their major demand - and that they got.

So you don't think the extra 2.5M was the major reason for the French clubs potentially signing up? Really? A reduction from 24 to 20 teams was all they really wanted?

It was their major demand and the only one that caused issues for the Rabo unions - so yes.
They also wanted a change in dates - easily accomodated and some other minor issues. the PRLs major demand of club control was never a major part of the french wish list. So the french demands could be accommodated. the PRL ones could not. The french wer also no wedded to BT being the sole broadcaster.

It was obvious and predictable that the french would compromse and the rabo unions could live with enough compromise to get the french on side.

Edit: you know what? Forget it. We've done this before and got no-where so...I agree with you. You are right.

Ta for admitting it - I was right on the French stance ;-)