Gatland Era

After seeing some bickering about selections on the Wales squad thread, I feel compelled to remind people of how lucky we should consider ourselves. Not lucky in the sense of luck itself as hard work and professionalism has brought rewards for Wales, lucky that as supporters we are experiencing a golden era in Welsh rugby.

After 25 years of suffering, we saw the first glimpse of the future during a nothing to lose RWC pool match against New Zealand in 2003. Since then it has been a stuttering jittery road to recovery culminating in what we now know as the 'Gatland Era'.

Yes regional rugby is in a mess, but it has helped carve a superb national team and under 20's setup. I'd happily not see a Welsh team win the Heineken Cup providing the national side continues to go from strength to strength. Sometimes we can't have it both ways. I'm just glad we have at least the national side doing well. 10 years ago we had a poor national side and a poor club setup. At least one of them has improved.

There are only 2 reasons why the regional setup is failing. It's not failing in producing top Welsh players and a top youth setup, it's failing in its bid to create a region that will perform in Europe and also attract big crowds.

First reason. The regions shouldn't have been setup as independent businesses / entities, but at the time that suited the WRU. The WRU was on a restructuring road to recovery and the national side was on the up, but the WRU didn't have the money or resources to fully finance 4 or 5 regional rugby franchises. The WRU focused on fixing itself and making itself profitable and the regions we left to produce the talent. Obviously there was WRU funding for the regions (some more than others), but the regions were still independent.

Now the WRU is becoming cash rich and wants the control the regions. Some would say the WRU wants to have its cake and eat it and they want control of the regions now that it suits them, but at the end of the day the WRU has Welsh rugby at its heart and wants all areas to be successful.

They have seen regions pump ridiculous money into acquiring the best players, but still no success at European level. Now some of these financial backers have pulled out or are not investing in buying players like they used to.

I believe there are MASSIVE benefits to the national side having so many star players playing abroad. We have nearly a full Welsh international XV playing quality rugby for quality French and English clubs and at a very high standard. George North has gone up another level again since joining Northampton. We then have our best under 20's and 2nd choice players getting week in week out regional exposure. Our depth in the national side have never known such levels. We are also blocking potential English and French talent. Recent Welsh success had a lot to do with having familiarity. We have had the same core players for about 5 years with odd changes due to form or injury. England and France have too many players to choose from and little familiarity. They never know their best XV. This explains why France can reach a world cup final yet get the wooden spoon 18 months later or why England can destroy the All Blacks but concede 30 points to Wales.

Despite these positives, we do need to keep a core group of star players in Wales to keep interest in the regional game and prevent attendances from getting even worse. It is inevitable that the WRU will and must run the regions and centrally contract certain players.

The 2nd main obstacle for regional rugby is logistical. It is absolute madness that we are trying to operate 4 major rugby franchises along ONE 50 mile stretch of M4 motorway and ALL in South Wales. We simply don't have the catchment to support this. Leinster has 2 million Dubliners in its area and the rest of Ireland is split equally. Ireland isn't much bigger than Wales in Population terms, but they have an almost perfect 4 quarter divide geographically. Obviously the majority live in or around the Leinster catchment, but they've done it as best they can.

if the WRU are ever to take full control then a major restructure would be seriously welcome. My ideal regional setup to maximise crowds, interest, money and the ability for new fans to attend matches would be:

South West (matches shared between Llanelli and Swansea)

South East (matches shared between Cardiff and Newport)

Central (a region to support Brecon, Merthyr and the Valleys)

North (matches alternated between Colwyn Bay and Wrexham)

If this was to happen you'd have a massive new fanbase from the valleys and north Wales. Yes you'd have some stubborn fans bickering from Llanelli and Swansea etc who'd refuse to support the new regions, but eventually it would bed in far better than the current regional setup has.

My last point is just to reiterate how successful Wales have been in the Six Nations since Gatland took over. There has actually only been ONE year where Wales couldn't have won the six nations on the final day. Quite a remarkable achievement really.

2008: Slam
2009: Opportunity to retain title by beating Ireland by an achievable margin.
2010: Gatland's blip year
2011: Needed to beat France by 27 to win title. Very unrealistic but possible.
2012: Slam
2013: Championship

I think 2010 was an interesting one. Wales weren't mentally tough and started very poorly against England and France and came back too late. We were totally blown away in Dublin.

Now Wales have a team of leaders and superstars. There are no primadonna idiots, no Andy Powell's or Gavin Henson's. We have some very level headed youngsters. The Lions success will be a massive advantage to the Welsh. It will be a benefit and not a hindrance. OK it wasn't Wales who beat Australia, but some players will feel a monkey has been lifted off their back.

I cannot see Wales losing their title. Ireland in Dublin is the only game I think we could lose. Looking at our squad we have an excellent chance.

LEADERS:

Warburton
AWJ
Lydiate
Phillips
Roberts

GAME CHANGERS

Halfpenny
North (in the form of his life)
Hibbard
Tipuric
Faletau

For me, Dan Biggar is a no brainer. He could have lost his confidence after the chargedown vs Ireland but he went from strength to strength. Wise beyond his years and should have had so many more caps and six nations starts by now. When Priestland bottles it he bottles it big time. Hook is not as good a fly half as Biggar and is hot and cold. That's why he had to leave the Ospreys.

Wales have nothing to fear. Defence is superb and the brutality of the South Africa match was just what we needed in the autumn.

Wales have won the last 3 vs England
England haven't scored a single try in the last 3 games vs Wales.
Wales have won 3 of the last 4 vs Ireland and 2 out of the last 3 in Dublin.
Wales have won the last 2 vs France and France didn't score a try in either of those matches

I also think psychologically Wales have a huge advantage from the first day. Italy at home is arguably the most winnable game and Wales have an opportunity to goto Dublin off the back of a large victory. Points difference is so important these days. England know this only too well after taking Italy lightly last year with one eye on the Wales game.

Out of interest where would the Central Region play?

Merthyr and Pontypridd.

Whilst I know its not all about one particular area but how would that help people in the Gwent valleys?

As it when home I can get from Ebbw to Newport to watch Dragons relativley easy on public transport, train or bus and whilst it would be quicker to drive to Merthyr trains would take me anywhere in excess of 1hr 45mins.

gatlandgun wrote:Merthyr and Pontypridd.

Penydarren Park?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penydarren_Park

The point I'm making is we have have all 4 regions all on along the coast of South Wales. All crammed into one tiny part of the country.

I know that South Wales is where the majority of the population lies but it's way too saturated.

All very nice Gatlandgun but you fail to even address that the world does not stop in Rome...there is another hemisphere and we have failed to kick on from the ackNowledged successes we have achieved to even beat the weakest SH side once. Last time was Aus in 08 and i don't count Argentina.

This illustrates our complete lack of consistency and lack of flexibility with a gameplan that is transparent.

I accept we are in a golden era but there is a massive elephant in the room who blows farts at us every time we win the 6 Nations to remind us that on the world stage, RWC 2011 or not, we are very very average.

I wouldn't say we're very average at all. Australia and South Africa played very tough matches to get their wins. The game is still so much more advanced in the SH and their regional setup is perfect and the players don't play a ridiculous amount of gamed per season like we do in the NH. Central contracting will help reduce injury and keep players fresh, with priority going to the WRU and Wales matches like they are considering doing with Warburton.

Anyway, at this time of year the SH means diddily squat. When it's the Euro football tournament, do you think English and German fans are bickering about Argentina / Brazil or focusing at the job in hand?

Gatland has done a fantastic job up to now. Do you think he's the man to get you to the next level? A little too forward dominated at the moment with the selection of backs you have.

My view - Gantlandball is good enough to win consistently against NH sides but too conservative to beat the SH sides. Its a consistent gameplan and makes Wales hard to beat but to get to the top of the tree you need that bit more. You need speed in attacka nd the licence to couterattack. a bit of me dies everytime I see 1/2p hoof away good counter-attacking ball or Phillips make a slow run and get buried. At the very top level you need real speed between the ears and to be willing to take risks.

Wales could be challenging for the very top with the right gameplan and selections. Its a bit like england of a few years ago.

If Gatland looked at his situation in 2008 when he joined and said in 6 seasons I would have 3 6N titles, 2 GS, 1 RWC SF and having the largest contingent on the 09 and 13 Lions tour I would say thats about as close to max as possible.

However, at the very top he looks a bit found out.... that its his methodology rather than talent which has brought Wales the above glories. If so talent would have brought home some big scalps.

Its a good base to work on though, what most teams would give for that level of preparation etc. What is lacking is not skills but they're too easily read by teams like SA, they need options beyond what has been drilled into them.. they're like new privates in the army, brainwashed to be drones.

AUS were very reluctant to hire McKenzie as coach because of the same issue. Front rowers won't read the game a centre might... their experience has been as a front rower, forwards coach etc. The difference is he has put a lot of faith in his players and playmakers.

At the highest level teams are going to be skilled in technical reading of the game. They should be able to spot offensive moves a mile off if they are structured... and with Wales, they always are. Its why his methodology comes undone. Defences will soak it up.

I can't see him reaching the next level i.e. getting a seat at the kings table (SA & NZ) without a radical upheavel of his coaching staff and ideas. But that would go against his position itself so for that I doubt it will happen.

I have been trying to stay off this site until the mess that is Welsh and indeed European rugby is sorted out, but I have come on here and read this article and I feel compelled to point out a few things, for me attendances are a misguided figure, the thing is there is far too much rugby in South Wales to go around for the amount of people living here. The big cities need to have a team, because that is where the big businesses and corporate hotels and the what not are, but when you factor a valleys region, I know for a fact in Merthyr were there is a population of 55,000 people there are at least half a dozen clubs, we have Cefn Coed, Dowlais, Troedyrhiw, Nelson, Bedlinog, Derri, Merthyr, Treharris, Aberfan, and a couple more I might have forgotten, then in Aberdare the next valley over with a smaller population than Merthyr, you have Abercynon, Cwmmaman, Mountain Ash, Aberdare, Abercwmboi, and a few more I might have forgotten, then there even more around Pontypridd, are we seeing the picture ? How can a region cope against so many other clubs who have got people playing for them, and all their families going to watch them, and then all the people who help out with the food in the clubhouse after ect. This is where all our fans are going, when they have finished with their local side they will sit in the clubhouse or home and watch their regions on tele. Now, some people might say, lets not put so much rugby on tele, but that is a stupid idea, facts are, the regions get the equivalent of 10,000 people through the gates from tele money for each game, because the interest is there, so the facts are, RUGBY is still massively supported in Wales, just because the regions do not get the support through the turnstiles it does not mean that rugby is dying here.

Which brings me to my second point, the reason why you always see the MS packed out on international day and Cardiff bulging at the seams, this is because all other rugby is usually off, so all the fans from the village and town sides descend on the capital or the nearest town centre for a day of lash and international rugby, it does not mean they are fair weather fans, it is because they support rugby elsewhere.

Now lastly, sorry for banging on, the reason for me, why the regions are not working, it is because there are too may ego's controlling Welsh rugby, lets not forget the owners of our regions did not get all their riches by giving into people and letting others have their own way, no, it is quite the opposite, there was a time in Wales when if you were well off and had more money than sense and you needed to massage your ego, you would purchase a rugby club and have all your hangers on around you on match day and look like the godfather, the only things that have changed now are some of these people are running our regions now, and with the ego's at the WRU there was always going to be a car crash, for me, if we want successful regions we need to get rid of the ego's, from both sides, only then will we see things improve, for both the regions and Gatlands era with Wales.

P.S Sorry for the long reply.

LD - it does seem from an outsiders point of view (well mine only!) that the MS is often filled with a significant number of stag do/hen do members who look more interested in the party then the rugby... but that could be because the cameras look out for general idiots/hot women (the camera man will need an eagle eye thats for sure ). No doubt some of those fancy dressed daffodils will be serious rugby fans though.

Its the problem with playing club rugby though... when you play, you miss the big matches, opportunity to go test matches etc.

fa0019 wrote:LD - it does seem from an outsiders point of view (well mine only!) that the MS is often filled with a significant number of stag do/hen do members who look more interested in the party then the rugby... but that could be because the cameras look out for general idiots/hot women (the camera man will need an eagle eye thats for sure ). No doubt some of those fancy dressed daffodils will be serious rugby fans though.

Its the problem with playing club rugby though... when you play, you miss the big matches, opportunity to go test matches etc.

Trust me fa, most of those women will either be partners of boys playing rugby for the local sides who do not get a "day out" that often or women who are affilaited to the local sides now and then or even the daughters of some of the men involved, they all "support" rugby they just see international day as a DAY OUT and go out with the primary focus on enjying themselves, have you been to Wales on international day ? Trust me it is carnival atmosphere everywhere. All this is because all other rugby is not played on international day in Wales, with the odd exception.

Aren't a lot of Pro12 games played on Friday/Saturday evenings rather than the traditional Saturday afternoon kick-offs (when lower/local league games usually happen)?

I could be wrong here.

So why can't Gatland beat SH teams with Wales?

Scrumpy wrote:So why can't Gatland beat SH teams with Wales?

Slow ball from Philips, lack of unpredictability, unwillingness to take risks. FFS let 1/2p counter-attack. He is a better player probably than Mike Brown or Hogg but doesn't risk the counter attack in the same way.

Cyril wrote:Aren't a lot of Pro12 games played on Friday/Saturday evenings rather than the traditional Saturday afternoon kick-offs (when lower/local league games usually happen)?

I could be wrong here.

Friday night, you have a point with, even though it is hard for some people to get there from work, but on a Saturday after playing a game then going back to the clubhouse afterwards with the other team and their supporters, it's either easier to just stay there and watch the regions in the bar or just go home and settle down with a can or glass of wine and watch the game.

I agree LD... if you play on Saturday whether it be early or late you at best get to see the match on TV somewhere where you are playing... if not you simply miss the whole thing... and no where with enough time to get to a stadium.

Unless these club matches started at 9am.

Yes it's about time the pro 12 played games at 1/2/3pm on a Saturday!

Wales need a great halfback pairing and Lock pairing.

The lads we have are good but look at the top teams SA, Australia and ofcourse NZ and their locks and half backs are not just great but outstanding. They dominate everyone but each other. We haven't been on a par with them in those positions especially lock, for twenty five years.

We may well have some of the best players in Europe, but there are a good number of positions where our combinations are not as great as our buddies from the south.

Lock and halfback need addressing.

Hey roge....