Groves Launches An Appeal

George Groves was out in New Jersey last week, appealing to the IBF to issue a rematch between him and Carl Froch. He says he will find out the decision this week.

Do you think he deserves a rematch? Will Carl fight him or ditch the belts in the search of a bigger money fight possibly in Vegas?

I think Carl will take the fight, albeit begrudgingly! He simply doesn't have any other offers out there. Chavez is unavailable until at least August you'd assume...given he is fighting in March..then recovery time, promotion of fight & training camp looking at 12 week turn around minimum.

Simply isn't the fan interest in a Andre Ward, either side of the pond and he certainly wouldn't be making the type of money he could from a Groves rematch.

Only other alternative I can see is him ditching the belts and moving up to Light-Heavy for a fight with Pascal and then unification with Stevenson later in the year. It would sell and while certain people laughed me off the board the other week for suggesting it I think it becomes more viable by the day.

The kid has won from losing in and out of the ring.........(Sounds good doesn't it!!)

If I was him thinking with my Business head on...........I'd leave Froch alone and go the WBO route................After all consensus is that he was superior and was unlucky to get stopped (I think he was on the verge of being stopped!!) and the consensus is also he's too good for Froch to want to know !!!

So why not take the goodwill and bag a world title.......After all he's gained an army of fans...

He came out the Froch fight smelling of roses.........and part of me thinks he fought the best he could and Froch took him lightly......

But that's my business head......................The Fan side say's let's have a rematch but this complaint crud is just to gain exposure..........After all FROCH is the bigger draw and the complaint will be dismissed.

and rightly so..

You don't want Mayweather to fight Manny , you would ask Groves to go WBO route. Are you related to Frank a Warren ?

Cheers Rodders

I said business head..."If I was him"...Or can't you read.......

Be sensible............

He has no guarantee to pick up another strap , and would be fighting for far less money. It would make no sense for him to fight someone else, when the biggest pay day by a mile is available and won't be for too much longer.

Cheers Rodders

That's better....

Said it on another thread this is the only sensible fight for Froch. All the other potential fights that will net him anywhere near as much are far riskier affairs and at his age if he loses he really has nowhere else left to go. If you can net millions in a winnable fight you are a mug not to take it and it is only stupid pride and ego getting in the way of common sense.

Hearn is not stupid though, he knows all this, his only difficulty is selling it to Froch whilst massaging his ego. Take this fight and if he wins give him the swansong fight against the likes of Ward or GGG, he may lose but will get well paid for the privilege.

If Groves goes the WBO route  with a view to seeking a unification bout, I can see Froch saying he won't fight for a Mickey Mouse belt and use it as an excuse to look elsewhere.
 
However, Groves can't just keep banging on about Froch not being a man of integrity etc etc etc with a view to getting another tilt (which I think he deserves...whether or not he fought out of his skin, no-one's done that to Froch) and needs to get back into the ring. Maybe he will end up having to sit and watch as DeGale gets a fight with Bika and then gets the runaround from Chunky for a while, but like we've said, Froch is still the best option...shame Froch doesn't see it or want it.

Great news for Hearn. If he can have a word with the IBF then he wont even have to convinve Froch to take the rematch (which hes trying to avoid). Hopefully the IBF will order it and put Froch on the spot.

Rowley wrote:Said it on another thread this is the only sensible fight for Froch. All the other potential fights that will net him anywhere near as much are far riskier affairs and at his age if he loses he really has nowhere else left to go. If you can net millions in a winnable fight you are a mug not to take it and it is only stupid pride and ego getting in the way of common sense.

Hearn is not stupid though, he knows all this, his only difficulty is selling it to Froch whilst massaging his ego. Take this fight and if he wins give him the swansong fight against the likes of Ward or GGG, he may lose but will get well paid for the privilege.  

Think it is the only sensible fight..........But I think he's looking for easier prey for the same money...........That 1st round knockdown changed his outlook like Rosario changed Camacho's.......

Let's not forget though Froch was very much in the ascendency at the end despite a huge knockdown..........Shows his legs are still good...

Everyone is thinking superfight 2............But would it have been a humdinger first time without the knockdown that took several rounds to get over ??

Could be Moore-Durelle 2.................

Everyone is thinking superfight 2............But would it have been a humdinger first time without the knockdown that took several rounds to get over ??

Even without the KD, those right hands from Groves had Froch hurt badly and part of me thinks that whilst the KD made the fight more exciting, it also may have harmed Groves as he started wading in and trading rather than continuing to mug Froch with his boxing.

Don't think the KD made Froch angry, just made Groves a tad too over confident.

Don't see Froch being able to cope any better second time round. He'll either go into his shell (thus destroying the Warrior image forever) or try and rush Groves and get caught square on...like he always does, but with Groves being clever enough to pick the shots that get him the stoppage.

I see it differently..............Froch was unsteady on his feet for a couple of rounds and only got going again in the 4th...........Think the knockdown probably made it more competitive than it should have been.............After six rounds I felt Froch was going to win and that Groves would do well to hang on till the end.........Whilst Groves still did some good work I started to feel froch ws getting control of the fight.

Did however have Groves in front more than the judges.........and felt the stoppage was way too early........Though I believe he gets stopped in that round.

But that's my view and I don't have a problem with those who see it differently....

Can't recall the round that Groves dropped his hands, backed to the ropes and let Froch have a couple of free swings but part of me thinks that he wouldn't have done that if he hadn't KD'd Froch...then again, the exuberance of youth makes me thinks Groves wouldn't have fought any other way as he was having waaaaay too much fun out there.

Also wonder if Groves had an inkling that there'd be issues with the cards and opted to stay in range and try rack up the rounds rather than think he was a mile ahead and see out the last few rounds. Sad state of affairs when a fighter thinks despite a KD and winning rounds quite handily, he might still get jobbed by the judges.

Had he got on his bike I think we'd have had another Oscar/Tito fiasco

How did you score it.............I had it I think to Groves by 3........

Certainly not enough ahead to go on his bike...........

Think Oscar should have won that fight.........

Not sure giving Froch a 10-8 9th and the last 3 was a great idea..

Could only give Froch 3 rounds to be fair and one of those was the ninth (had it ended). A couple of the rounds were close but watching it back I still think Groves won them due to cleaner work but I'm sure the judges were looking at Froch wading forward and winging away as opposed to seeing if anything of significance landed. Most of the time when Froch did land, Groves was answering back and having the last word.

I'm sure many will point to my anti-Warrior agenda on the boards and that I showed a complete lack of impartiality where Carl is concerned but I think I've shown that whilst I do believe Froch is a plank of some repute, I've generally given him credit where it's due.

Couldn't argue with anybody who had Froch only winning three..........

Three rounds = 77-74 (1 point for the kD) considering the 9th was a 10-8 had he survived.....in all probability...

85-84............Is one round with three to go.......So bicycle doesn't really apply..

But in fairness some had it wider than you Mate.........

The problem is that people are calling the 9th round a 10-8 to Froch when there was still a minute to go and absolutely no way of knowing which way it would go (I've seen more one-sided rounds given 10-9). Still plenty of time for Groves to pull something out the bag and for those saying it was unlikely, I'll cite the first Ward-Gatti fight (9th round) as an example of someone coming back into a round that looked all but lost

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The kid has won from losing in and out of the ring.........(Sounds good doesn't it!!)

If I was him thinking with my Business head on...........I'd leave Froch alone and go the WBO route................After all consensus is that he was superior and was unlucky to get stopped (I think he was on the verge of being stopped!!) and the consensus is also he's too good for Froch to want to know !!!

So why not take the goodwill and bag a world title.......After all he's gained an army of fans...

He came out the Froch fight smelling of roses.........and part of me thinks he fought the best he could and Froch took him lightly......

But that's my business head......................The Fan side say's let's have a rematch but this complaint crud is just to gain exposure..........After all FROCH is the bigger draw and the complaint will be dismissed.

and rightly so..

I agree with a lot of what you said here. WBO might not be a bad route. Stielglitz is a very weak champ and cannot go on fighting the ghost of Abraham forever. I also think he was about to be stopped by Froch. Given he hit Froch with the kitchen sink and he was still there, he might not be able to beat him in a rematch. It kind of depends on what Groves wants. If he looks at Froch as a fight he can win, and can negotiate a ton of chash, he might not be too worried about the potential loss. I mean, if he makes 1-1.5 from a rematch, then he is secure afterward. A fight v Stieglitz wouldn't garner half the purse or attention. Might be his thinking.

The fact Groves couldn't but Froch away shouldn't be a stick to beat him with...who else has put Froch away?

Groves was faster, sharper, cuter but lacked the ability to stick to a brilliant gameplan. You can say Froch was coming back into the fight but there's a counter that Groves was letting him by trying to draw him into a fight to prove how tough he is. To me there'd have been nothing wrong with Groves running rings around Froch in the 2nd half of the fight as he'd already done enough to show he could hit and hurt him.

DAVE667 wrote:The fact Groves couldn't but Froch away shouldn't be a stick to beat him with...who else has put Froch away?

Groves was faster, sharper, cuter but lacked the ability to stick to a brilliant gameplan. You can say Froch was coming back into the fight but there's a counter that Groves was letting him by trying to draw him into a fight to prove how tough he is. To me there'd have been nothing wrong with Groves running rings around Froch in the 2nd half of the fight as he'd already done enough to show he could hit and hurt him.

 
Not beating him around the head with it, nor do I disagree with the statement that Groves was winning. But Groves was as dominant as anybody has ever been over Froch not named Ward, and still he looked (in my eyes) right on the verge of being stopped in the 9th. What if he doesn't drop Froch in the first next time round? I appreciate people see it different ways, but I really believe Groves would have been stopped in that 9th round, and if he squeaked out of that, the 10th. Groves looked to be tiring after the 7th.
 
Anyway, I want the rematch, and believe Groves could win it early or lose late.

Groves wants a rematch because he is confident he will win. Froch doesnt because he isnt confident he can.

catchweight wrote:Groves wants a rematch because he is confident he will win. Froch doesnt because he isnt confident he can.

Or...

Groves wants a rematch because he didn't win. Froch doesn't because he already won.

Truth in both statements to a certain extent...

Think Groves was surprised himself at how effective he was..........Think also Froch now knows what to expect also..

Seanusarrilius wrote:

catchweight wrote:Groves wants a rematch because he is confident he will win. Froch doesnt because he isnt confident he can.

Or...

Groves wants a rematch because he didn't win. Froch doesn't because he already won.

Froch would jump at a rematch if he was confident. Huge money on offer. It couldnt be more obvious he doesnt fancy it.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Truth in both statements to a certain extent...

Think Groves was surprised himself at how effective he was..........Think also Froch now knows what to expect also..

Big difference between knowing what to expect and being able to withstand/overcome it.

catchweight wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

catchweight wrote:Groves wants a rematch because he is confident he will win. Froch doesnt because he isnt confident he can.

Or...

Groves wants a rematch because he didn't win. Froch doesn't because he already won.

Froch would jump at a rematch if he was confident. Huge money on offer. It couldnt be more obvious he doesnt fancy it.

just playing devil's advocate.

I think Froch would rather take another fight, but the rematch will happen IMO. Too much wonga at stake.

Go the WBO route and then come back to the table for a unification (of sorts) and therefore more money?

With a belt in hand it also gives Froch less excuse to weasel out.

Only problem with going the WBO route is Froch is not going to be around forever, he is already cracking on a bit age wise. He is also not going to sit around waiting for Groves, he is going to take other fights, if he slips up the unification fight goes up in smoke. As far as I am concerned if multi million fights that can fill football stadiums are feasible get them made. Too many fights have been blown by waiting to build anticipation or to make the pot even bigger.

If he doesnt get the rematch next fight I dont think he ever will. Groves might have beaten the "warrior" out of Froch.

Good points Jeff...................But..

1. Does he need to fight Froch ??.........Consensus is Froch is running away....and Groves just keeps emphasising it ...True or not and he wins the PR war..The Froch defeat like Nelson-Sanchez enhances his reputation.........

2. Stieglitz and a defence against Joe bloggs with his new found army of fans = Froch Payday ...and both fights carry less risk with a title chucked in...

I'd love a rematch but the kid has options now..

Froch forever slated Clazaghe for ducking him (whatever) and yet here we have Froch looking to sail off into the sunset by avoiding what is seen by many and a hugely justifiable rematch with Groves.

Never mind the amount of money it's likely to generate, what happened in the ring coupled with the controversy at the end makes this fight viable.

Agree Truss, should not be overlooked though that Groves will now genuinely believe he can beat Froch and thinks based on the performance first time and the less than satisfactory ending to the first he has earned the right to prove it, a view I can’t really argue with.

My only hope is he does not get all Witter about this because whilst I support his right to push for this fight I would not like to see him get obsessed because as you rightly say he has options.

Rowley wrote:Agree Truss, should not be overlooked though that Groves will now genuinely believe he can beat Froch and thinks based on the performance first time and the less than satisfactory ending to the first he has earned the right to prove it, a view I can’t really argue with.

My only hope is he does not get all Witter about this because whilst I support his right to push for this fight I would not like to see him get obsessed because as you rightly say he has options.

The main (and basically ONLY) reason I think Froch should stop bleating about a rematch with Ward being his God given right

How does Froch v Groves II go in your eyes, Dave?

Froch wants to end with a stella win. He knows he has got maybe 2 fights max left in him and he wants to go out in front of his international fan base befitting an international superstar.

Thing is you can forget Froch offering the rematch to Groves because it is the right thing to do, Froch is an A type narcissist with an inflated sense of his place in the universe. Groves is too risky don't expect to see them 2 fight again.

DAVE667 wrote:The fact Groves couldn't but Froch away shouldn't be a stick to beat him with...who else has put Froch away?

Groves was faster, sharper, cuter but lacked the ability to stick to a brilliant gameplan. You can say Froch was coming back into the fight but there's a counter that Groves was letting him by trying to draw him into a fight to prove how tough he is. To me there'd have been nothing wrong with Groves running rings around Froch in the 2nd half of the fight as he'd already done enough to show he could hit and hurt him.

but that's a bit rtarded.

I think its psychologically hard to fight someone you're expected to beat, but who presents a genuine threat... especially a domestic rival. You go from being a 'massive international superstar' to being number 2 in the country. There was a different kind of pressure on froch in the grove's fight than he's used to. I think that might explain some of his behaviour, but regardless i also think the same rules apply, only more so in a rematch. I'd guess the odds would be fairly even in a rematch, but (as he won the first fight, however controversially)  froch would feel he has everything to lose and little to gain, other than a very decent cash injection and the respect of fight fans. Who'd want that eh.

Even if he's confident of victory, I can see why he doesnt want it. I genuinely don't think froch is scared of groves, but he's scared of the consequences of losing to him. I think he wants to fight some big names for his perceived legacy (and good money, obviously). He doesn't have many fights left, and in his mind 'wasting' one of them on groves is a backward step, and should he lose, what does that do to his ego/legacy? Far less risk to either having another crack at ward.

That's how i think he sees it. Personally, if you're true to your 'warrior' persona, you'd want to be doing the right thing, setting the record straight, proving you're the better man etc. Nothing in his behaviour at, or since, the fight suggests that he wants to do that. The fight might happen, if he can't get his first choices, but it clearly will be with some reluctance.

Nobody has given Froch a beating like that. Ward outclassed him, but his punches werent shaking him up, dropping him or putting him on queer street. I dont think Froch wants to go through that again. I think his confidence and spirit has been shaken. Someone like Ward will beat him but he cant actually beat Froch up like Groves did so in many ways Froch could see it as an easier fight.

Unless groves can get Ward - I think he should make every effort to keep himself in the hunt for Froch and only after Froch signs his fight (or promotes his next signed fight with someone else) then should he follow WBO route set out above.

Well I'm surprised that anyone could give Froch three rounds in the fight personally, but (deep intake of breath) I think Jim Watt may have been onto something when he said that Groves' legs had gone.The transmission did not show him from below the waist, frustratingly, but y'know I think perhaps that this is what the ref picked up on too.

The WBO route?Please no.

Watching a programme on Eubank (Sr)and I think it was Hearn (Sr) who credited him with giving more say to the boxer for his fights.I then wondered if it was partly him to blame for constructing a career out of nobodies with the WBO's help, then laughing all the way to the bank with the Sky money.(Yes I'm thinking of Joe Calzaghe).But at least Eubank did rematch Benn, purely for the wonga.Carl "anyone,any time" can't claim to be a warrior.If there is such a thing as "legacy" surely it is more to do with the record but also to do with conduct;in this instance Froch has blotted his copy book big time.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I see it differently..............Froch was unsteady on his feet for a couple of rounds and only got going again in the 4th...........Think the knockdown probably made it more competitive than it should have been.............After six rounds I felt Froch was going to win and that Groves would do well to hang on till the end.........Whilst Groves still did some good work I started to feel froch ws getting control of the fight.

Did however have Groves in front more than the judges.........and felt the stoppage was way too early........Though I believe he gets stopped in that round.

But that's my view and I don't have a problem with those who see it differently....

I agree.

DAVE667 wrote:Froch forever slated Clazaghe for ducking him (whatever) and yet here we have Froch looking to sail off into the sunset by avoiding what is seen by many and a hugely justifiable rematch with Groves.

Never mind the amount of money it's likely to generate, what happened in the ring coupled with the controversy at the end makes this fight viable.

Froch has not ducked Groves, he fought him and beat him.  This is a about a rematch.

tunes666 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Froch forever slated Clazaghe for ducking him (whatever) and yet here we have Froch looking to sail off into the sunset by avoiding what is seen by many and a hugely justifiable rematch with Groves.

Never mind the amount of money it's likely to generate, what happened in the ring coupled with the controversy at the end makes this fight viable.

Froch has not ducked Groves, he fought him and beat him.  This is a about a rematch.

You could argue he's ducking the rematch though Tunes, a rematch that is deserved and gives both of them their highest pay day.

Hes blatantly trying to avoid a rematch. And its not because he "dominated" the first fight or thinks he would win a rematch easily.

Do you think Groves would be bigger financial reward than Ward or Chavez Jnr for Froch at this stage ?

The British fans don't particularly clamour for a Ward rematch and well the Americans don't care who Ward fights he seems simply quite insignificant over in the States , again Chavez would not be received well here and couldn't see that doing serious PPV numbers on SBO. Groves is surely the only match-up for Froch and matchroom.

The only other fight that would be really wet the appetite would be Golovokin for me.

Cheers Rodders

Groves is definitely the biggest fight out there for him. Throw in also that Froch would be getting most of the money against Groves. Its as surefire a rematch as you could ever hope to have.

Ward could sell if was to fight over here Rodders, as opportunities for us Brits to see genuine world class international talents in or around their primes are few and far between and whilst I don’t personally agree home advantage may add a bit of a question mark over the outcome. However have to think Ward would want a shedload of money to come over, he would need the money to buy a passport for starters. Think Eddie would prefer to make Groves, because to pay Froch what he would expect and to pay Ward enough to come over would surely be tough.

Not sure Chavez is really known outside the hardcore fans, and he is not exactly universally loved and respected amongst us such folk is he.

I dont think Ward would come over to the UK at all after seeing the recent officiating. He doesnt travel at the best of times. If a second Froch/Ward fight happens it will be in the States and be totally pointless.

I agree with Trussman - Groves has to move on. His reputation has only been enhanced, and significantly at that, after his match with Froch. If there is a possibility of working towards a world title - the WBO - then that's what he should be aiming for. Groves is young and has many years ahead of him, while Froch is nearing the end of his career. Groves has to focus on himself and his career objectives and move on & quit with the whining.