Sean O'Brien - the best no.7 in the world?

by PredictorofTeams Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

Serious question, SOB has been in incredible form recently and seems unstoppable!
His ball carrying is without doubt better than any other back rower in the world.
He has diversified his game now and is able to read attacking and defensive situations better.
His work at the breakdown is now a big part of his game.If you think this is still a weakness you haven't watched him this season!
So I pose the question to you, is he the complete out and out best no.7 or even back rower in the world?
If not, who is better?
May I remind you he played McCaw off the park in the Aviva!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZtgohRij5k
A 5 tribute of him, from just 1 game!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDTmdDhGO50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN75j0BiIX0
Hand off!

by ChequeredJersey Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:47 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:That's because he is a great club player. And as slow a glacier....

But with the hands and support instincts of a rugby league back Wink

by BamBam Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:48 pm

Yep, Lobbe definitely there too

by Jenifer McLadyboy Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:50 pm

BamBam wrote:Read, Vermeulen, Parisse, Picamoles, Faletau - all over Heaslip for me. Then there's guys like Morgan, Vunipola who I think will show they are outstanding in the next year or so, but as yet haven't done so consistently so for now I would have to put them behind Heaslip

Read is obviously current number 1 (Even though Jamie had him in his pocket in Nov) Well it's only our opinions but Picamoles is the only other one of those who comes close. Vermeulen maybe.

by reallybored Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:53 pm

O'Brien is class, comfortably the best open-side in the Northern Hemisphere currently.

When fit, imo, Rennie is head and shoulders above any NH open-side.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:53 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:That's because he is a great club player. And as slow a glacier....

But with the hands and support instincts of a rugby league back

You say that like it's a good thing! Smile

by Jenifer McLadyboy Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:58 pm

BamBam wrote:Yep, Lobbe definitely there too

Plays across the back row though? Not always an 8. But yeah. Great player.

by ChequeredJersey Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:07 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
BamBam wrote:Yep, Lobbe definitely there too
Plays across the back row though? Not always an 8. But yeah. Great player.

Better 8 than 6 for me. So hard to separate out backrows. Some players that some fans will claim are the best in the world, others will claim are way below the rest, it's because the job of a backrow (and it is a composite thing) is so flexible, in many ways the way you use yours is a big part of your team's character and gameplay and with so much variation in what you can be looking for, there will always be arguments

by Geordie Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:08 pm

reallybored wrote:O'Brien is class, comfortably the best open-side in the Northern Hemisphere currently.

When fit, imo, Rennie is head and shoulders above any NH open-side.

Comfortably? I disagree with that...theres a few who would be there...purely for the 7 spot id rather have Robshaw, Warburton, Tipuric, even Barclay was outstanding for the Scarlets on the weekend.

But then i dont think O'Brien is a 7...hes one of the other 2...a 6 or 8. And he is a class act.

by **rodders** Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:12 pm

Robshaw is better at serving cappuccinos, O'Brien is better at milking cows.

by ChequeredJersey Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:19 pm

rodders wrote:Robshaw is better at serving cappuccinos, O'Brien is better at milking cows.

They should work together, make the perfect organic latte

by Geordie Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:26 pm

Ok perfect...

6 O'brien
7 Robshaw

Good balance.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:28 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
reallybored wrote:O'Brien is class, comfortably the best open-side in the Northern Hemisphere currently.

When fit, imo, Rennie is head and shoulders above any NH open-side.

Comfortably? I disagree with that...theres a few who would be there...purely for the 7 spot id rather have Robshaw, Warburton, Tipuric, even Barclay was outstanding for the Scarlets on the weekend.

But then i dont think O'Brien is a 7...hes one of the other 2...a 6 or 8. And he is a class act.

He's just so good that he can play anywhere across the back row. 8 is his worst and least favourite position though. He is a little short to play 6 for a whole game (much less a whole season)

This is why Leinster and Ireland have evolved a game that suits him at 7. Normally your 6 or 8 would be a bigger carrier. But carrying is something he excels at. Hence people wanting him at 6.

We now have a way of playing that lets him carry more while others take up the slack elsewhere.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:30 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ok perfect...

6 O'brien
7 Robshaw

Good balance.

That's good. Compensate for someone who is not a natural 7 by not having a natural 6 either.... Could work. They could play left and right at scrumtime and develop French accents. Smile

by ChequeredJersey Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:30 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
reallybored wrote:O'Brien is class, comfortably the best open-side in the Northern Hemisphere currently.

When fit, imo, Rennie is head and shoulders above any NH open-side.

Comfortably? I disagree with that...theres a few who would be there...purely for the 7 spot id rather have Robshaw, Warburton, Tipuric, even Barclay was outstanding for the Scarlets on the weekend.

But then i dont think O'Brien is a 7...hes one of the other 2...a 6 or 8. And he is a class act.
He's just so good that he can play anywhere across the back row. 8 is his worst and least favourite position though. He is a little short to play 6 for a whole game (much less a whole season)

This is why Leinster and Ireland have evolved a game that suits him at 7. Normally your 6 or 8 would be a bigger carrier. But carrying is something he excels at. Hence people wanting him at 6.

We now have a way of playing that lets him carry more while others take up the slack elsewhere.

ChequeredJersey wrote: So hard to separate out backrows. Some players that some fans will claim are the best in the world, others will claim are way below the rest, it's because the job of a backrow (and it is a composite thing) is so flexible, in many ways the way you use yours is a big part of your team's character and gameplay and with so much variation in what you can be looking for, there will always be arguments

by ChequeredJersey Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:31 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Ok perfect...

6 O'brien
7 Robshaw

Good balance.
That's good. Compensate for someone who is not a natural 7 by not having a natural 6 either.... Could work. They could play left and right at scrumtime and develop French accents.

Fine, swap them around if you like!

by BamBam Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:33 pm

Its great when we all agree Hug

by Jenifer McLadyboy Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:33 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Ok perfect...

6 O'brien
7 Robshaw

Good balance.
That's good. Compensate for someone who is not a natural 7 by not having a natural 6 either.... Could work. They could play left and right at scrumtime and develop French accents.

Fine, swap them around if you like!

Note. I didn't say which one was the 6 and which one the 7...... Because both are neither in the traditional sense.

by Geordie Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:40 pm

Robshaws a far more natural 7 than O'Brien though. He's played there for years...

O'briens skills set far more suit 6 or 8...accepting of his height.

by BamBam Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:42 pm

That's why this hypothetical combination would be so well balanced .. Robshaw is decent in the lineout so he can overcome SOB's vertical issues there, and SOB can scare the life out of the opposing fly half when Robshaw is jumping

by BamBam Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:43 pm

When's the next Lions tour again Whistle

by Jenifer McLadyboy Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:51 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Robshaws a far more natural 7 than O'Brien though. He's played there for years...

O'briens skills set far more suit 6 or 8...accepting of his height.

O'Brien has been playing 7 for 5 years now..... He's 26

by Comfort Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:03 pm

6. Robshaw
7. Tipuric
8. SOB

by Geordie Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:03 pm

i thought he'd been getting shifted all over the back row...as suited his teams?

by Jenifer McLadyboy Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:27 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:i thought he'd been getting shifted all over the back row...as suited his teams?

Fairly consistently at 7 for the last 5 years. He used to shift across to 6 late in games sometimes when Jennings came on. He had a few games at 8 about 3 years ago when (The normally unbreakable) Mr Heaslip had his one and only injury (so far) and he broke into the Ireland team as a bench option as he could cover all 3 positions.

But as I said he has been at 7 for the VAST majority of the last 5 years.

by majesticimperialman Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:27 pm

I think Steffan Armatage is a far better 7 personaly.

by PredictorofTeams Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:31 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:I think Steffan Armatage is a far better 7 personaly.

You're an idiot.

by GloriousEmpire Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:34 pm

He's a decent 7, but in the second half at the aviva, the All Blacks out played their opposite numbers man for man, kept the team scoreless and turned over a record points margin to win. McCaw included and particularly.

I think his claim to be the best is still unsubstantiated.

by quinsforever Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:38 pm

clivemcl wrote:
PredictorofTeams wrote:
quinsforever wrote:His ball carrying is without doubt better than any other back rower in the world.

- plenty of doubt there

He has diversified his game now and is able to read attacking and defensive situations better.

- hardly a ringing endorsement, more a recognition of past weakness

May I remind you he played McCaw off the park in the Aviva!

- any given day. and mccaw is getting on a bit.
steffon armitage. every day.

Please suggest a better 7 , I dare you!

He dared you. You can't back down from that or you will be a chicken.

steffan armitage. every day.

by SecretFly Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:40 pm

He's more than 'decent' when playing out of his skin. And McCaw's reputation is safe.... longer in the tooth though so he has a head start in the race anyway.

by Jhamer25 Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:48 pm

If the thread read the best NO.6 in the world then it would have been a descent debate. I don't see him as a 7 to be honest, no when you compare him to the liked of Pocock, Louw, Dusatior, Mccaw or Tipuric.
He is an awesome player and defo up there as one of the best flankers of the modern era, but i would have:
6. Sean O'Brien
7.Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip
Now that back row COULD potentially be lethal. If Heaslip is on form

by PredictorofTeams Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:51 pm

quinsforever wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
PredictorofTeams wrote:
quinsforever wrote:His ball carrying is without doubt better than any other back rower in the world.

- plenty of doubt there

He has diversified his game now and is able to read attacking and defensive situations better.

- hardly a ringing endorsement, more a recognition of past weakness

May I remind you he played McCaw off the park in the Aviva!

- any given day. and mccaw is getting on a bit.
steffon armitage. every day.

Please suggest a better 7 , I dare you!

He dared you. You can't back down from that or you will be a chicken.
steffan armitage. every day.

You're an idiot, I have no time time for this petty Tom foolery!

by quinsforever Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:55 pm

if you watched anything more than your precious national team and provinces, maybe SH club rugby too, your ignorance might not be quite so evident.

and word to the wise, you're not on a youtube comments section, so calling people an idiot on this forum is likely to get you yellow-carded.

by SecretFly Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:58 pm

You are an 'idiot' and a Tom Fooler, quins. Live with it... Wink

The Tom Fooler, I must admit shocked me more than the 'idiot'. Never had you down for a Tom Fooler, that disgusts me.

by Jhamer25 Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:59 pm

Oh I forgot Armitage and hooper as well

by quinsforever Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:07 pm

well the armitage v o'brien one can be nicely settled in the HC qf. having watched half of toulons matches this season i know who my money is on for the match, and also sob vs armitage. even though armitage is holding the 8 position at the moment.

by PredictorofTeams Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:10 pm

quinsforever wrote:if you watched anything more than your precious national team and provinces, maybe SH club rugby too, your ignorance might not be quite so evident.

and word to the wise, you're not on a youtube comments section, so calling people an idiot on this forum is likely to get you yellow-carded.

Armitage has a worse work rate, is weaker, slower, worse ball carrier, worse defender and worse over the ball. Oh yea, did I mention he's a fat unfit lump who thinks he's a back.

by gatlandgun Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:12 pm

Tipuric is the best 7, the 3rd best fly half and 5th best wing.

by SecretFly Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:14 pm

gatlandgun wrote:Tipuric is the best 7, the 3rd best fly half and 5th best wing.

That'll Learn 'em!!!

by slane Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:22 pm

Are people here seriously trying to say they would rather have Robshaw or Warburton over SOB!

SOB has the workrate of two sometimes three players, put it like this would Warburton or Robshaw get into a NZ 15? Nope, would SOB? Yep

In terms of best 7 in the world I would say he's in the top 3, however it is very subjective

by Jhamer25 Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:49 pm

slane wrote:Are people here seriously trying to say they would rather have Robshaw or Warburton over SOB!

SOB has the workrate of two sometimes three players, put it like this would Warburton or Robshaw get into a NZ 15? Nope, would SOB? Yep

In terms of best 7 in the world I would say he's in the top 3, however it is very subjective

Agree he is better than than both Sam (to hot and cold) and Robshaw who is more of a 6 as well (but still the best 7 England have to offer).
But i wouldn't say he is anywhere near the top 3 of number 7's in the world. It's weird because I wouldn't have him in my top 3 of the europe
Tipuric, Armitage, Dusatoir
Then there are players like Chris Henry, Louw, John Barclay (on form), Ross Rennie (when playing), Julian Salvi (when not conceding XYZ penalties)

But overall he is a much much better RUGBY player than all the names above. It's quite a complicated topic to express really

by quinsforever Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:50 pm

PredictorofTeams wrote:
quinsforever wrote:if you watched anything more than your precious national team and provinces, maybe SH club rugby too, your ignorance might not be quite so evident.

and word to the wise, you're not on a youtube comments section, so calling people an idiot on this forum is likely to get you yellow-carded.

Armitage has a worse work rate, is weaker, slower, worse ball carrier, worse defender and worse over the ball. Oh yea, did I mention he's a fat unfit lump who thinks he's a back.

haha. is SOB another of your "mates" like Madigan? is that why you are so one-eyed?

bring on the HC qf

by Golden Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:01 pm

SOB is a 7 who can play 6.

Having said that 6. O'Brien 7. O'Brien 8. O'Brien would be one hell of a back row.

by king_carlos Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:10 pm

Might annoy people for me to say it but I still think of O'Brien as a blindside, and a bloody good one at that!

These threads are always near impossible to reach a conclusion from as people want different things from certain positions. Personally I like a 7 who offers himself as a real link man in attack such as Hooper and Tipuric (not many of them around really) hence why I rate both those players higher than the likes of Pocock or Warburton. That said McCaw and Louw are probably best around at the moment and don't really fit that mould...

6.Lobbe, Alberts, O'Brien - Gorgodze is also a behemoth
7.McCaw, Louw, Hooper - Robshaw just missing out there
8.Read, Vermuelen, Parisse - Will be very interested to see if Picamoles can get back to his best in the 6N

If I was naming the best three players in each back row spot as I see it that would probably be the outcome at present.

by PredictorofTeams Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:23 pm

quinsforever wrote:
PredictorofTeams wrote:
quinsforever wrote:if you watched anything more than your precious national team and provinces, maybe SH club rugby too, your ignorance might not be quite so evident.

and word to the wise, you're not on a youtube comments section, so calling people an idiot on this forum is likely to get you yellow-carded.

Armitage has a worse work rate, is weaker, slower, worse ball carrier, worse defender and worse over the ball. Oh yea, did I mention he's a fat unfit lump who thinks he's a back.
haha. is SOB another of your "mates" like Madigan? is that why you are so one-eyed?

bring on the HC qf

Sob is injured for the HC qf, you clearly don't watch him play and have a far inferior mind than me so sorry if I'm getting annoyed, but I guess I just have to accept your "opinion" is from you, and no one else, which makes me feel better!Please point out something I said about Armitage that you don't agree with.

by quinsforever Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:11 pm

with your superior mind i am sure you will have no problem reading this article. not a bad accolade, best foreign player in the top14.

http://www.laprovence.com/actu/region-en-direct/2064129/rugby-rct-steffon-armitage-designe-meilleur-joueur-etranger-pour-2011-2012.html

and steffon armitage is stronger, faster and a better gain-line ball carrier than SOB. you're welcome.

by quinsforever Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:16 pm

one more thing. SOB's injury profile suggests either weak body or weak mind. neither bolster the "best 7 in the world" claim.

by quinsforever Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:21 pm

another thing. toulon obviously don't rate SOB as highly as you do if they weren't willing to pay up for him. armitage is on north of EUR400k net (the club pays his tax, so that's the equivalent of EUR700k gross).

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:24 pm

quinsforever wrote:one more thing. SOB's injury profile suggests either weak body or weak mind. neither bolster the "best 7 in the world" claim.

I think this comment suggests a weak mind more than anything..

by Golden Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:43 pm

And SOB was supposedly offered 500+ after tax.

by PredictorofTeams Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:48 pm

quinsforever wrote:another thing. toulon obviously don't rate SOB as highly as you do if they weren't willing to pay up for him. armitage is on north of EUR400k net (the club pays his tax, so that's the equivalent of EUR700k gross).

O'Brien chose to stay at Leinster because they are a much better club, it wasn't anything to do with the money or else he would have left leinster for sure as they couldn't come close to Toulon's offer. Your points are ilinformed and invalid. I'm struggling to see why I'm debating with you however I feel it is my duty to set the delusional on the right path, but now I see you are too stubborn and set on your false ways to see the truth, how unfortunate....

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