France v England - Paris - 01/02/2014

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French XXIII

1. T Domingo 2. B Kayser 3. N Mas
4. A Flanquart 5. P Pape
6. Y Nyanga 7. B Le Roux 8. L Picamoles
9. J-M Doussin 10. J Plisson
12. W Fofana 13. M Basteraud
11. M Medard 15. B Dulin 14. Y Huget

16. D Sarzewski 17. Y Forestier 18. R Slimani 19. Y Maestri 20. A Burban 21. D Chouly 22. M Machenaud 23. G Fickou

England XXIII

1. J Marler
2. D Hartley
3. D Cole
4. J Launchbury
5. C Lawes
6. T Wood
7. C Robshaw
8. B Vunipola
9. D Care
10. O Farrell
11. J May
12. B Twelvetrees
13. L Burrell
14. J Nowell
15. M Brown

16. T Youngs 17. M Vunipola 18. H Thomas 19. D Attwood 20. B Morgan 21. L Dickson 22. B Barritt 23. A Goode

We all know this but when you look at the NH sides there are some serious top notch backrowers out there across all 6 sides in the 6 nations.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I fail to see the hype around Steffon tbh

i think he is immense. wouldnt surprise me if he wins european player of the year this year. just like wilko did last year!

he's 5 ft tall and 6 ft wide and dances like Astaire. alright, maybe thats an exaggeration. but he is a perfect ball-stealing, gainline-wrecking build.

bet we would have won if youngs had played on the wing. i like the way you think! then we could have kept brown at FB, and importantly, Goode OFF THE FIELD

Duty281 wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:For me that's the most worrying aspect. 19 games or so out from the World Cup, and how many players that are 90% sure to be starting the first game of the World Cup do England have? I would say Hartley, Launchbury, Robshaw, Brown.

Four. Out of fifteen. Maybe, if you're generous, you could extend it to Cole, Farrell and Tuilagi as well, but they do all have question marks over them.

He has more names inked in than that.

Cole, Hartley, Corbs, Launchbury, Lawes, Wood, Robshaw, look bolted on when fit. Add Vunipola or Morgan and that's probably how Lancaster sees his pack. If anyone else plays to challenge these players then it's a bonus.

In the backs, Tuilagi, Farrell and Brown look like first XV choices. That makes ten or eleven players who are 90% certain to start the World Cup. You can debate whether these are the right choices, but there seems little doubt Lancaster has these players pegged.

Cole is struggling with form at present, exemplified by his poor show on Saturday.
Corbisiero is struggling with injury, and has competition from Marler and Vunipola.
Is it Lawes or Parling next to Launchbury?
Wood wasn't too good on Saturday - still time for Croft to take that place.
Vunipola or Morgan is still the question for no.8.
Tuilagi has encountered criticism recently. Ditto Farrell.

None of those players are more than 90% sure to start.

Not sure how you can say Wood was not too good the other day.  Nor that Vunipola/Morgan is much of a question mark.  Vunipola appears to be the real deal at 8 and, to me at least, looks as close to being set in that position.  
I thought Wood was fine and did a lot of the dirty work.  He had 12 carries and 11 tackles.  Not bad.  BUt it is not just me:

The Telegraph wrote:Tom Wood: A battling performance by the Northampton flanker and his physicality was key in planting seeds of doubt in the French forwards. 7/10
Billy Vunipola: Was England's most destructive forward and potent attacker, carrying superbly and was a rock under the restarts. 8/10  

The Guardian wrote: 6  Tom Wood 6/10 He worked his socks off in the back row. Wood was a key man in nullifying the threat of the much vaunted French back row.
8  Billy Vunipola 8/10 Crunching tackle on Yannick Nyanga and was England's most effective ball-carrier when he was on the pitch. A great Six Nations debut.

They both seemed pretty nailed on to me.

I agree Cole seems tired and should have a real break from Rugby to regain form and strength.  Corbs cannot be considered until he proved he is truly healthy.  And for that he might need the rest of the season off.

Corbs will never play for a prolonged period, he's completely shot.

Croft is an odd one. In a certain gameplan he's superb, but the way England play works better with two more physical warrior-types like Wood and Robshaw. We don't tend to spread the ball wide enough to make use of a flanker with his pace.

I like Croft and I think all teams need a pacy ball carrier with good hands. Too often the likes of Vunipola get isolated wich is a bit of a shame. He could be the missing link between the forwards and backs as well. Reminds me of Bonnaire in a way. That said balance in tge backrow is something not easy to achieve.

whocares wrote:I like Croft and I think all teams need a pacy ball carrier with good hands. Too often the likes of Vunipola get isolated wich is a bit of a shame. He could be the missing link between the forwards and backs as well. Reminds me of Bonnaire in a way. That said balance in tge backrow is something not easy to achieve.

He doesn't do the work Woods does, although he does more than he is given credit for. Robshaw is the link man, often standing in the 10 stop and drawing the defenders before passing sometimes better than most 10s.

If we had a SA type backrow, you can afford the luxury of Croft with his pace and ability to catch up with the backs before showing them what real pace is.

Talking about real pace, has anybody got any news about Tom May?

I assume you mean Johnny not Tom?

He's been cleared to play

Good news on May.

If you want a link man, Robshaw is very capable in that role. In the AP final 2 years ago he essentally played the whole game at first receiver to buy Evans time to outwit the Tigers' defence. It worked. If there's a deficit in link play today - and I am not sure there is - it's down to tactics and not personnel.

Croft is a great option if the rest of the pack is sufficiently in control of the breakdown that he can afford to hang wider out, but at international level that doesn't happen often. I actually think Croft is a great option for the Lions because the rest of the pack will all be a notch higher, but that we don't have an English pack that gives us that option against the best teams.

The big benefit of Wood/Robshaw/Vunipola as a combination is that at least two of them can do any given skill to a high enough level that England are rarely caught out of position. If they have a flaw, it's reliance on Vunipola to make yards - but the other two tend to focus on turning slow ball into quicker ball by drawing defenders and making the ball available quickly.

Guys, this one is overflowing - link to Calcutta Cup (part 1) thread here:

https://www.606v2.com/t51548-scotland-v-england-murrayfield-sat-8th-feb-1700

or this one to discuss England team selections:

https://www.606v2.com/t51562-england-selection-policy