France v England - Paris - 01/02/2014

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French XXIII

1. T Domingo 2. B Kayser 3. N Mas
4. A Flanquart 5. P Pape
6. Y Nyanga 7. B Le Roux 8. L Picamoles
9. J-M Doussin 10. J Plisson
12. W Fofana 13. M Basteraud
11. M Medard 15. B Dulin 14. Y Huget

16. D Sarzewski 17. Y Forestier 18. R Slimani 19. Y Maestri 20. A Burban 21. D Chouly 22. M Machenaud 23. G Fickou

England XXIII

1. J Marler
2. D Hartley
3. D Cole
4. J Launchbury
5. C Lawes
6. T Wood
7. C Robshaw
8. B Vunipola
9. D Care
10. O Farrell
11. J May
12. B Twelvetrees
13. L Burrell
14. J Nowell
15. M Brown

16. T Youngs 17. M Vunipola 18. H Thomas 19. D Attwood 20. B Morgan 21. L Dickson 22. B Barritt 23. A Goode

He's back, he played against us

Rain plays into England's hands IMO - not that it means I want to see rain if we're giving a couple of May, Watson and Nowell a go on the wings, last thing we need is a game they can't involve themselves in. It's a huge problem with English sport in general that we are extremely quick to dump a new talent after a poor performance or two at the start of their career but ridiculously reluctant to drop a more senior player even if they under perform for over a year.

If we do get rain it will be a huge game for those picked at half back for both sides. Whilst you would expect Domingo and Mas to give France an edge in the scrum, without Parra in the France squad you'd expect Farrell to control a game better than the other half backs in each side I'd wager. It wouldn't give a nice spectacle but would be a big chance for those picked at 9 and 10 in both side to put down a marker.

1.Marler - Marginally ahead of Mako at present.
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Lawes
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Vunipola

9.Care
10.Farrell

11.May
12.Twelvetrees
13.Burrell - Allow them to interchange on defence and attack as needed
14.Watson or Nowell - Would happily have either
15.Brown

16.Youngs
17.Mako
18.Thomas - Would prefer Brookes
19.Attwood
20.Morgan
21.Dickson - Big fan of Youngs but he's woefully out of form, not that Dickson been much more consistent though...
22.Ford
23.Eastmond

The above is my personal take on the selection options and who I'd pick rather than what I reckon Bomber will go for. All in all I think it could be a cracker of a game if the weather holds out!

All 3 are fullbacks, probably a reason why they are all being picked

ChequeredJersey wrote:All 3 are fullbacks, probably a reason why they are all being picked

Nowell, Watson and May are you referring to CJ?

If so I'd say May is more of winger than a full back now and rightly so as I think he's better suited there.

Nowell is an interesting one as a lot of his age group rugby was at FB but his time at Exeter has mainly been on the wing. Personally I'd say he is still finding his position but at the moment he's better on the wing as he can utilise his strength in contact more - a Chiefs fan could give a far better summary than I can though I'm sure!

Watson I'd still back to end up a wing but he has the tools to play both given his pace, footwork and how good his basic skills are.

There are a lot of players around who can play wing as well as full back extremely well - Folau, Jane, Piutau, JOC, etc. Problem is that when England have tried to interchange the positions since Lewsey and Robinson retired it has tended to be with players who either didn't have the pace to move to wing, such as Brown, or didn't have the required basic skills under high ball etc to move to FB, i.e. Monye.

Yeah in my head players are wingers- Ashton, Monye, Benjamin, Habana, Cuthbert etc
Fullbacks- Brown, Goode (though he comes under utility a bit too), Kearney, Dagg
Back 3 players- Watson, Nowell, Jane, Folau, Le Roux, Halfpenny
True utility backs- May, B Smith


Though that still over-categorises, as obviously some players can play 15 and 13 or 15 and 10 and 12 or wing and 13!

king_carlos wrote:Rain plays into England's hands IMO - not that it means I want to see rain if we're giving a couple of May, Watson and Nowell a go on the wings, last thing we need is a game they can't involve themselves in. It's a huge problem with English sport in general that we are extremely quick to dump a new talent after a poor performance or two at the start of their career but ridiculously reluctant to drop a more senior player even if they under perform for over a year.

If we do get rain it will be a huge game for those picked at half back for both sides. Whilst you would expect Domingo and Mas to give France an edge in the scrum, without Parra in the France squad you'd expect Farrell to control a game better than the other half backs in each side I'd wager. It wouldn't give a nice spectacle but would be a big chance for those picked at 9 and 10 in both side to put down a marker.

1.Marler - Marginally ahead of Mako at present.
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Lawes
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Vunipola

9.Care
10.Farrell

11.May
12.Twelvetrees
13.Burrell - Allow them to interchange on defence and attack as needed
14.Watson or Nowell - Would happily have either
15.Brown

16.Youngs
17.Mako
18.Thomas - Would prefer Brookes
19.Attwood
20.Morgan
21.Dickson - Big fan of Youngs but he's woefully out of form, not that Dickson been much more consistent though...
22.Ford
23.Eastmond

The above is my personal take on the selection options and who I'd pick rather than what I reckon Bomber will go for. All in all I think it could be a cracker of a game if the weather holds out!

I think if England play that team they'll lose.

beshocked wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Rain plays into England's hands IMO - not that it means I want to see rain if we're giving a couple of May, Watson and Nowell a go on the wings, last thing we need is a game they can't involve themselves in. It's a huge problem with English sport in general that we are extremely quick to dump a new talent after a poor performance or two at the start of their career but ridiculously reluctant to drop a more senior player even if they under perform for over a year.

If we do get rain it will be a huge game for those picked at half back for both sides. Whilst you would expect Domingo and Mas to give France an edge in the scrum, without Parra in the France squad you'd expect Farrell to control a game better than the other half backs in each side I'd wager. It wouldn't give a nice spectacle but would be a big chance for those picked at 9 and 10 in both side to put down a marker.

1.Marler - Marginally ahead of Mako at present.
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Lawes
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Vunipola

9.Care
10.Farrell

11.May
12.Twelvetrees
13.Burrell - Allow them to interchange on defence and attack as needed
14.Watson or Nowell - Would happily have either
15.Brown

16.Youngs
17.Mako
18.Thomas - Would prefer Brookes
19.Attwood
20.Morgan
21.Dickson - Big fan of Youngs but he's woefully out of form, not that Dickson been much more consistent though...
22.Ford
23.Eastmond

The above is my personal take on the selection options and who I'd pick rather than what I reckon Bomber will go for. All in all I think it could be a cracker of a game if the weather holds out!

I think if England play that team they'll lose.

What team do you think would win and why?

Actually this match is one where it would be nice for wingers to have FB experience. Whether that counteracts Brown's positioning on the wing in defence is another matter though.

Beshocked why would that team lose?

ChequeredJersey wrote:

beshocked wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Rain plays into England's hands IMO - not that it means I want to see rain if we're giving a couple of May, Watson and Nowell a go on the wings, last thing we need is a game they can't involve themselves in. It's a huge problem with English sport in general that we are extremely quick to dump a new talent after a poor performance or two at the start of their career but ridiculously reluctant to drop a more senior player even if they under perform for over a year.

If we do get rain it will be a huge game for those picked at half back for both sides. Whilst you would expect Domingo and Mas to give France an edge in the scrum, without Parra in the France squad you'd expect Farrell to control a game better than the other half backs in each side I'd wager. It wouldn't give a nice spectacle but would be a big chance for those picked at 9 and 10 in both side to put down a marker.

1.Marler - Marginally ahead of Mako at present.
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Lawes
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Vunipola

9.Care
10.Farrell

11.May
12.Twelvetrees
13.Burrell - Allow them to interchange on defence and attack as needed
14.Watson or Nowell - Would happily have either
15.Brown

16.Youngs
17.Mako
18.Thomas - Would prefer Brookes
19.Attwood
20.Morgan
21.Dickson - Big fan of Youngs but he's woefully out of form, not that Dickson been much more consistent though...
22.Ford
23.Eastmond

The above is my personal take on the selection options and who I'd pick rather than what I reckon Bomber will go for. All in all I think it could be a cracker of a game if the weather holds out!

I think if England play that team they'll lose.

What team do you think would win and why?

Actually this match is one where it would be nice for wingers to have FB experience. Whether that counteracts Brown's positioning on the wing in defence is another matter though.

The problem I have with king carlos side is mostly the backline selections on the first team and bench.

I think his selections are far too inexperienced, when you are not used to playing together it makes it easier for sides to exploit defensive lapses.

When you put three new players into a new backline - it can cause all sorts of problems like not communicating properly and leading to a breakdown - defensively and offensively.

Also Farrell is not used to playing with Care.

Plus his selection of both Ford and Eastmond. Ford is fine but Eastmond? No. That's 5 new backs in total in his 23 (I count May as new despite him having one cap off the bench).

I think adding more experience in the backline would win the match.

When is the team announced?

Well it looks like the following to start (torygraph)

The big lads (we all know these)

SH (injury vs form vs gameplan – so anyone of 4)
Farrell
12T & Burrell
May
Nowell
Brown

Stewie has thrown a bit of a curve ball:
Is it an MJesque sudden loss of confidence in previous selection;
Or development for 2015/19;
Or the injury replacements are injured so what the hell;
Or the inexorable shift of the clue-less from the sublime to the ridiculous and back again?

I’m not sure whether to be impressed or petrified.

Better just hope the French kick plenty of ball to the 3/4 in broken play.

I assume team is named on Thursday, 2 days until we are all put out of our misery.

Currently in the process of clearing my diary for Thursday so I can have a good old moan

I just think many of the experienced regulars aren't performing so he's trying something new..plus injuries.

Big problem though is that he needs to recognize the tactics are a problem...and make the changes to those accordingly.

France have called up Trinh-Duc at 10 due to injury

GeordieFalcon wrote:I just think many of the experienced regulars aren't performing so he's trying something new..plus injuries.

Big problem though is that he needs to recognize the tactics are a problem...and make the changes to those accordingly.

Which of the experienced regulars are not performing?

Barney Mcgrew did it personally I am petrified by that backline.

Most of.the backs and whilst I've defended your sarries Players that does include Farrell and Ashton.

We have to try something different

However As I've clearly said though...it's the tactics that's the pproblems.

To some extent tactics are driven by available players. What does make the team interesting, (for at least 10 minutes of the first game) is that we dont know what the tactics are going to be. France wont know either

beshocked wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I just think many of the experienced regulars aren't performing so he's trying something new..plus injuries.

Big problem though is that he needs to recognize the tactics are a problem...and make the changes to those accordingly.

Which of the experienced regulars are not performing?

Barney Mcgrew did it personally I am petrified by that backline.

The ones from Saracens apparently.


Look this is exactly the kind of selection process the internet has been clamouring for for years. Watch the previous weeks ITV highlights package and select the youngest players to have appeared on it.

The surprise here is that instead of turning to the 10 cap cavalry to cover an injury crisis Lancaster has looked to guys who are in barely starting to prove they are genuinely good club players and at the same time ditching the most experienced 3/4 player england have.
The non inclusion of Goode cant be seen as that controversial, especially as it would mean moving Brown back to a position hes not best suited to. The choice of outside center is governed by a lack of options at 13 and the first choices being injured then other failed....or using former favourite Barrit out of position (surely he will be on the bench?). Where would the experience come from ...recall Tindall~?
Same goes for the wings...I can accept the Goode non selection as above. With Foden out, Armitage foriegn, Cueto a distant memory , Banahan just being sh1te where is the experience coming from ...Strettle? Tried and failed.
This is radical and brave. Rather than turning to players he has looked at and found wanting Lancaster is turning to a bunch of enthusiastic unproven puppies. Ultimately this is what he was employed to do, his basic manifesto was "I will do the opposite of Martin Johnson" and rather than turning back to his old guard everytime theres an injury hes shooting for the moon.

THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED

So now we have a fullback who has scored 2 premiership tries starting the 6 nations at wing, a journeyman whos late to the party and has a whopping 15 tries to his name at center, and a converted center from oen of the worst performing clubs in the premiership at wing.

All this to solve Englands 3/4 try scoring problem. Meanwhile these will be served by the half backs who have largely been rumoured as responsible for the lack of tries from the 3/4 line.

Hmmm.

lostinwales wrote:To some extent tactics are driven by available players. What does make the team interesting, (for at least 10 minutes of the first game) is that we dont know what the tactics are going to be. France wont know either

The problem is will England?

beshocked wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

beshocked wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Rain plays into England's hands IMO - not that it means I want to see rain if we're giving a couple of May, Watson and Nowell a go on the wings, last thing we need is a game they can't involve themselves in. It's a huge problem with English sport in general that we are extremely quick to dump a new talent after a poor performance or two at the start of their career but ridiculously reluctant to drop a more senior player even if they under perform for over a year.

If we do get rain it will be a huge game for those picked at half back for both sides. Whilst you would expect Domingo and Mas to give France an edge in the scrum, without Parra in the France squad you'd expect Farrell to control a game better than the other half backs in each side I'd wager. It wouldn't give a nice spectacle but would be a big chance for those picked at 9 and 10 in both side to put down a marker.

1.Marler - Marginally ahead of Mako at present.
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Lawes
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Vunipola

9.Care
10.Farrell

11.May
12.Twelvetrees
13.Burrell - Allow them to interchange on defence and attack as needed
14.Watson or Nowell - Would happily have either
15.Brown

16.Youngs
17.Mako
18.Thomas - Would prefer Brookes
19.Attwood
20.Morgan
21.Dickson - Big fan of Youngs but he's woefully out of form, not that Dickson been much more consistent though...
22.Ford
23.Eastmond

The above is my personal take on the selection options and who I'd pick rather than what I reckon Bomber will go for. All in all I think it could be a cracker of a game if the weather holds out!

I think if England play that team they'll lose.

What team do you think would win and why?

Actually this match is one where it would be nice for wingers to have FB experience. Whether that counteracts Brown's positioning on the wing in defence is another matter though.

The problem I have with king carlos side is mostly the backline selections on the first team and bench.

I think his selections are far too inexperienced, when you are not used to playing together it makes it easier for sides to exploit defensive lapses.

When you put three new players into a new backline - it can cause all sorts of problems like not communicating properly and leading to a breakdown - defensively and offensively.

Also Farrell is not used to playing with Care.

Plus his selection of both Ford and Eastmond. Ford is fine but Eastmond? No. That's 5 new backs in total in his 23 (I count May as new despite him having one cap off the bench).

I think adding more experience in the backline would win the match.

What team do you think is best suited to winning this match?

ChequeredJersey wrote:

beshocked wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

beshocked wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Rain plays into England's hands IMO - not that it means I want to see rain if we're giving a couple of May, Watson and Nowell a go on the wings, last thing we need is a game they can't involve themselves in. It's a huge problem with English sport in general that we are extremely quick to dump a new talent after a poor performance or two at the start of their career but ridiculously reluctant to drop a more senior player even if they under perform for over a year.

If we do get rain it will be a huge game for those picked at half back for both sides. Whilst you would expect Domingo and Mas to give France an edge in the scrum, without Parra in the France squad you'd expect Farrell to control a game better than the other half backs in each side I'd wager. It wouldn't give a nice spectacle but would be a big chance for those picked at 9 and 10 in both side to put down a marker.

1.Marler - Marginally ahead of Mako at present.
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Lawes
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Vunipola

9.Care
10.Farrell

11.May
12.Twelvetrees
13.Burrell - Allow them to interchange on defence and attack as needed
14.Watson or Nowell - Would happily have either
15.Brown

16.Youngs
17.Mako
18.Thomas - Would prefer Brookes
19.Attwood
20.Morgan
21.Dickson - Big fan of Youngs but he's woefully out of form, not that Dickson been much more consistent though...
22.Ford
23.Eastmond

The above is my personal take on the selection options and who I'd pick rather than what I reckon Bomber will go for. All in all I think it could be a cracker of a game if the weather holds out!

I think if England play that team they'll lose.

What team do you think would win and why?

Actually this match is one where it would be nice for wingers to have FB experience. Whether that counteracts Brown's positioning on the wing in defence is another matter though.

The problem I have with king carlos side is mostly the backline selections on the first team and bench.

I think his selections are far too inexperienced, when you are not used to playing together it makes it easier for sides to exploit defensive lapses.

When you put three new players into a new backline - it can cause all sorts of problems like not communicating properly and leading to a breakdown - defensively and offensively.

Also Farrell is not used to playing with Care.

Plus his selection of both Ford and Eastmond. Ford is fine but Eastmond? No. That's 5 new backs in total in his 23 (I count May as new despite him having one cap off the bench).

I think adding more experience in the backline would win the match.

What team do you think is best suited to winning this match?

France

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

beshocked wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

beshocked wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Rain plays into England's hands IMO - not that it means I want to see rain if we're giving a couple of May, Watson and Nowell a go on the wings, last thing we need is a game they can't involve themselves in. It's a huge problem with English sport in general that we are extremely quick to dump a new talent after a poor performance or two at the start of their career but ridiculously reluctant to drop a more senior player even if they under perform for over a year.

If we do get rain it will be a huge game for those picked at half back for both sides. Whilst you would expect Domingo and Mas to give France an edge in the scrum, without Parra in the France squad you'd expect Farrell to control a game better than the other half backs in each side I'd wager. It wouldn't give a nice spectacle but would be a big chance for those picked at 9 and 10 in both side to put down a marker.

1.Marler - Marginally ahead of Mako at present.
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Lawes
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Vunipola

9.Care
10.Farrell

11.May
12.Twelvetrees
13.Burrell - Allow them to interchange on defence and attack as needed
14.Watson or Nowell - Would happily have either
15.Brown

16.Youngs
17.Mako
18.Thomas - Would prefer Brookes
19.Attwood
20.Morgan
21.Dickson - Big fan of Youngs but he's woefully out of form, not that Dickson been much more consistent though...
22.Ford
23.Eastmond

The above is my personal take on the selection options and who I'd pick rather than what I reckon Bomber will go for. All in all I think it could be a cracker of a game if the weather holds out!

I think if England play that team they'll lose.

What team do you think would win and why?

Actually this match is one where it would be nice for wingers to have FB experience. Whether that counteracts Brown's positioning on the wing in defence is another matter though.

The problem I have with king carlos side is mostly the backline selections on the first team and bench.

I think his selections are far too inexperienced, when you are not used to playing together it makes it easier for sides to exploit defensive lapses.

When you put three new players into a new backline - it can cause all sorts of problems like not communicating properly and leading to a breakdown - defensively and offensively.

Also Farrell is not used to playing with Care.

Plus his selection of both Ford and Eastmond. Ford is fine but Eastmond? No. That's 5 new backs in total in his 23 (I count May as new despite him having one cap off the bench).

I think adding more experience in the backline would win the match.

What team do you think is best suited to winning this match?

France

Funny, yet based on the team they seem to be selecting, I think unfounded

And if we take that attitude it looks like we could well lose either way - so why not give it a lash?

Good idea, some players play better drunk. Not Danny though

It'll be fine, England will play with speed and run the big French forwards into the ground. There will be good passing on the gain line, excellent support play and ferocious defense.

Oh right geordiefalcon so you mean the players winning the most matches and scoring the most tries.

Actually PSW I want to see some sort of balance.

Nothing wrong with picking Burrell but pick him at 12 - his actual position.

Don't pick him out of position for his first cap.

Lancaster's plan is also to pick Burrell in the centres with Twelvetrees who is not known for his reliability up against the much more experienced Fofana and Bastearaud.

Ashton should get one more go as a last chance saloon - you might say - why? He's been given plenty of opportunities - it's because he's by far the most experienced winger in the squad - he's got 11 tries this season and is top try scorer in the HC.

One new winger - fine but two? Come on.....

It's the context - it's France away - first match of the 6 nations, lose this and we kiss the grandslam goodbye from the start.

At home to a side like Italy/Scotland it's a different situation entirely - the risk makes more sense.

Brown should stay ahead of Goode - can't complain about that.

Also if Lancaster's gamble fails he will cripple the confidence of the likes of Nowell,Burrell and May.

Chequeredjersey players with experience like Ashton and Barritt should be starting in my opinion.

Not.for England they're not!

Barritt is short of game time - maybe he is not up to full fitness/ best form? Would playing him be more of a risk given the circumstances?

Actually that's where you are wrong Geordie! Both Ashton and Farrell scored tries in the AIs - of course people forget that.

lostinwales suppose it depends how many games you believe he needs.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Good idea, some players play better drunk. Not Danny though

I dunno surely he'd urine all over them?

beshocked wrote: Also if Lancaster's gamble fails he will cripple the confidence of the likes of Nowell,Burrell and May.

I think you're doing the players a disservice here. They are professional athletes and will have experienced set-backs before if it comes to that.

AI Tries - Farrell's was well taken, Ashton's was a walk in where he may not even have grounded the ball. Farrell deserves his spot, in my opinion Ashton doesn't.

 Fully backing my second team against France. Are the teams due to be announced today? Or Thursday?

little_badger wrote:

beshocked wrote: Also if Lancaster's gamble fails he will cripple the confidence of the likes of Nowell,Burrell and May.

I think you're doing the players a disservice here. They are professional athletes and will have experienced set-backs before if it comes to that.

AI Tries - Farrell's was well taken, Ashton's was a walk in where he may not even have grounded the ball. Farrell deserves his spot, in my opinion Ashton doesn't.

Well you could argue that Sharples has not recovered. Others like Allen and Cipriani have been shaken by being thrown in at an early age.

Nowell is a youngster. Only 20. He let the occasion of playing at Twickenham get to him when playing Quins - got himself sin binned. Still very inexperienced.

Doesn't matter how you score, as long as it goes down as a try.

beshocked wrote:Actually that's where you are wrong Geordie! Both Ashton and Farrell scored tries in the AIs - of course people forget that.

lostinwales suppose it depends how many games you believe he needs.

How many senior games has Nowell played at all? Barrits probably closing in on as many minutes on the pitch after his return from injury as the kids had in his entire career!

beshocked wrote:Oh right geordiefalcon so you mean the players winning the most matches and scoring the most tries.

Actually PSW I want to see some sort of balance.

Nothing wrong with picking Burrell but pick him at 12 - his actual position.

Don't pick him out of position for his first cap.

Lancaster's plan is also to pick Burrell in the centres with Twelvetrees who is not known for his reliability up against the much more experienced Fofana and Bastearaud.

Ashton should get one more go as a last chance saloon - you might say - why? He's been given plenty of opportunities - it's because he's by far the most experienced winger in the squad - he's got 11 tries this season and is top try scorer in the HC.

One new winger - fine but two? Come on.....

It's the context - it's France away - first match of the 6 nations, lose this and we kiss the grandslam goodbye from the start.

At home to a side like Italy/Scotland it's a different situation entirely - the risk makes more sense.

Brown should stay ahead of Goode - can't complain about that.

Also if Lancaster's gamble fails he will cripple the confidence of the likes of Nowell,Burrell and May.

Chequeredjersey players with experience like Ashton and Barritt should be starting in my opinion.

I can see a strong case for starting Barritt, in these conditions vs these players, knowing that our first choice 13 is injured. 36 and Barritt works fine for me. Burrell and Barritt is not ideal but I'd take it.

I don't think, especially as he's not been defending very well at any level, this is the sort of game that Ashton even on form would be a huge asset in. He doesn't have the kicking and kick defence game of a FB, and that is frankly going to be the largest part of the game in these conditions. Ashton, experienced or not, is just as likely to have his already damaged confidence plummet further by playing poorly in a game that won't play to his strengths

lostinwales wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Good idea, some players play better drunk. Not Danny though

I dunno surely he'd urine all over them?

According to wikipedia Nowell does a lot worse when hes had a few, although I suspect there may have been some editing from his chums wanting a laugh

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Good idea, some players play better drunk. Not Danny though

I dunno surely he'd urine all over them?

According to wikipedia Nowell does a lot worse when hes had a few, although I suspect there may have been some editing from his chums wanting a laugh

Given his haircut, I assume he only drinks moonshine so he's probably having more than Danny anyway

So it's looking like May, Nowell and Burrell will all start, if the press are to be believed.

There is no in-between with Lancaster.

Thing is if we want to develop our team to the full potential more attacking backs have to be blooded. The one question I have is dropping Ashton as I think with a new midfield we may have seen him blossom again. There are strong reasons to be positive here even if france do beat us. These players need to be given a chance as previous ones have, not just a one off game and dropped if they don't play brilliantly.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Thing is if we want to develop our team to the full potential more attacking backs have to be blooded. The one question I have is dropping Ashton as I think with a new midfield we may have seen him blossom again. There are strong reasons to be positive here even if france do beat us. These players need to be given a chance as previous ones have, not just a one off game and dropped if they don't play brilliantly.

I couldn't agree more. It's just a shame Wade and Yarde are both injured.

[/quote] Nowell is a youngster. Only 20. He let the occasion of playing at Twickenham get to him when playing Quins - got himself sin binned. Still very inexperienced.[/quote]

Or in arguably the biggest game of his career the U20 world cup final where he played well and scored a try? He's young and relatively inexperienced, but so was George North, so was Mako and so was Billy V. We might unearth a gem and for me that's worth the risk.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

beshocked wrote:Actually that's where you are wrong Geordie! Both Ashton and Farrell scored tries in the AIs - of course people forget that.

lostinwales suppose it depends how many games you believe he needs.

How many senior games has Nowell played at all? Barrits probably closing in on as many minutes on the pitch after his return from injury as the kids had in his entire career!

16 premiership matches and I dunno maybe another half dozen in the Heineken Cup/ LV Cup etc.

It's worked before though, I've seen Allen and Tait quoted as bad examples of what can go wrong. But what about Joe Launchbury, Joe Marler, Mako Vunipola, Billy Vunipola and Marland Yarde? They were all pretty green when they got their first caps for England.

When I look at it I think are we going to lose the game because Nowell comes into the team ahead of Ashton? Especially given that Ashton’s international tries have largely dried up and his defending has been awful?

I think there are bigger fish to fry in the backline personally.

little_badger wrote:

Nowell is a youngster. Only 20. He let the occasion of playing at Twickenham get to him when playing Quins - got himself sin binned. Still very inexperienced.[/quote]

Or in arguably the biggest game of his career the U20 world cup final where he played well and scored a try? He's young and relatively inexperienced, but so was George North, so was Mako and so was Billy V. We might unearth a gem and for me that's worth the risk. [/quote]

He coped pretty well against Toulon in France too.

None of Halfpenny, Cuthbert or North had played a full season of top-flight rugby when they won their first caps, I don't think. Not much more anyway. 2 debutants and May may seem slightly excessive, but they've all played in big games before and risen to it. Burrell has been to the Aviva and beaten Leinster. That's not far off what he's being asked to do on Saturday.

There's only one reason that Jack Nowell will start ahead of Ashton and that's because he's considered a better defender. Whether that be in training or through the games he's played for Exeter where he's been consistently high quality, his defence has been very solid. He's far more physical as a winger than Ashton.

If we look at it this way, Nowell is the only controversial selection. May was bound to start on the left wing once both Yarde and Wade were ruled out. He's been in pretty good form and covers 13 to a good standard.

Burrell was always going to get a shot having proved his good form for a long run of games. Other than Banahan there's not another gain-line option at centre and the coaching staff seem to feel this is what's missing.

Nowell for Ashton some would say is a risk away in Paris. It certainly is but Ashton, whilst still scoring for Sarries has had some poor defensive showings recently and that will go against you as far as Gen. Farrell is concerned.

We know the pack, I think it's actually the most physical forward pack and bench we've ever seen from Lancaster.

The backs, considering the weather conditions and likely state of the pitch i'd have to go:

9. R Wigglesworth - best box kicker in the league and good form with Farrell.
10. O Farrell
11. J May - good skills and few other options.
12. L Burrell - i'd rather see him start in his club shirt even if him and 36 do switch
13. B Twelvetrees
14. J Nowell - more physical than Ashton and breaks tackles, good kicking game.
15. M Brown

21. D Care 22. G Ford 23. K Eastmond (covers almost the whole backline and his defence is perfectly good)

Some very good arguments there guys...

thomh wrote:None of Halfpenny, Cuthbert or North had played a full season of top-flight rugby when they won their first caps, I don't think. Not much more anyway. 2 debutants and May may seem slightly excessive, but they've all played in big games before and risen to it. Burrell has been to the Aviva and beaten Leinster. That's not far off what he's being asked to do on Saturday.

Both Cuthbert and North had scored as many tries in a game for their clubs as Nowell has in his career for his.


What I see is a serious lack of leadership in the backs. Its not even like Brown is some massively established test player.
If the bench consists of the likes of Eastmond and Ford that wont exactly inspire additional confidence.

And Flood has gone. He was a bit of a general

Who is going to tell Robshaw what to do when they get a penalty with a minute to go