Danny Garcia - Zero to hero - Nailed on Top 10 for me..

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 24 Jan - 20:53

First topic message reminder :

What a difference a year or so makes.......

"I hate his Dad hope Lucas knocks him out".............."Easy defence for Khan".............."Hope Zab shuts him and Dad's mouth"...........

90% of the posters on here including me picked Matty to beat this guy...............He's been undersold throughout his career........But wow hasn't he done well...........

Khan, Holt, Morales twice, Zab and Lucas especially are all good wins.............Matty was in many top 10s after he destroyed Petersen.....

Love an overachiever.............and let's face it his record is better than Stevo's who is in many lists and was fighter of the year last year for some.....Mustn't forget Dawson was coming off a Tko defeat..

Garcia is an ugly duckling like Tim Bradley and he's done it the hard way...................Fair play to the guy..

On here he has gone from zero to hero......and you have to give him kudos for that !!.......................

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 25 Jan - 9:37

He aimed that particular shot and it landed, how do you explain all the knockouts by guys landing less than 28%, were they luck too?

by All Time Great Sat 25 Jan - 9:46

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He aimed that particular shot and it landed, how do you explain all the knockouts by guys landing less than 28%, were they luck too?

Well, statistically, yes. If you're able to show me a world class fighter who has won fights on a 30% punch landed percentile (against fighters landing 50% of their punches) I will probably back down from this argument...

But at the moment, it sounds like you're just arguing it was "skill" because it was against Khan, a fighter you don't happen to like...

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/view.php?pg=khan-garcia-compubox

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 25 Jan - 9:50

You should probably read through my previous comments before accusing me of not liking him. I'm bloody fed up of everyone being accused of disliking somebody because you're not licking his bumhole.

I suggest you watch the fight instead of basing your opinion on meaningless punch stats, they mean sweet FA after two rounds.

by hogey Sat 25 Jan - 10:16

owen10ozzy wrote:
All Time Great wrote:Totally disagree with this. Khan was totally outclassing him until he was caught.

Complete exaggeration mate.
Khan as he always does started well and had a couple of very good rounds, Garcia started slower, but in the 3rd he was starting to get his timing right and land on Khan and the danger signs were already flashing, he then sparked him in the 4th. You do not totally outclass someone for 2 rounds in a 12 round championship fight, especially if they completely destroy you in the 4th. If they fought again it would be the same result maybe earlier or maybe later but it always ends up with Khan doing his baby giraffe dance. What makes him a better fighter than Khan is more than good power and chin its was his good boxing brain that gave him the ability to have a look at Khan work him out in 6 minutes then flatten him in 10.

by All Time Great Sat 25 Jan - 10:18

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You should probably read through my previous comments before accusing me of not liking him. I'm bloody fed up of everyone being accused of disliking somebody because you're not licking his bumhole.

I suggest you watch the fight instead of basing your opinion on meaningless punch stats, they mean sweet FA after two rounds.

No one is trying to upset you, it's a common theme in your posts that you feel due to Khan's last 2/3 performances you feel he's no longer a legitimate threat to the top LW/WW.s. Agreed?

However, I still maintain, Garcia did get lucky in the fight. The first 2.75 rounds Khan just looked far too fast for him. He was caught with a good shot, but you can't disregard the fact Garcia only had a circa 30% punch landed percentile... That suggests he wasn't (1) pounding Khan at every opportunity (2) If Khan could avoid the Left hook, he'd probably win by a landslide (3) Garcia isn't the second coming. He's not even a top 3 LW/WW for me.

by All Time Great Sat 25 Jan - 10:22

hogey wrote:
owen10ozzy wrote:
All Time Great wrote:Totally disagree with this. Khan was totally outclassing him until he was caught.

Complete exaggeration mate.
Khan as he always does started well and had a couple of very good rounds, Garcia started slower, but in the 3rd he was starting to get his timing right and land on Khan and the danger signs were already flashing, he then sparked him in the 4th. You do not totally outclass someone for 2 rounds in a 12 round championship fight, especially if they completely destroy you in the 4th. If they fought again it would be the same result maybe earlier or maybe later but it always ends up with Khan doing his baby giraffe dance. What makes him a better fighter than Khan is more than good power and chin its was his good boxing brain that gave him the ability to have a look at Khan work him out in 6 minutes then flatten him in 10.

A good boxing brain does not land only 30% of his punches against someone who's landing around 45% to 50% of his punches.

We can't tell what may of happened if he didn't land that shot. But let's get one thing clear, he was NOT sparked! The Ref stopped the fight, potentially too early?

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 25 Jan - 10:26

You do realise that a connect rate of 28% is bloody good don't you?

So me acknowledging that Khan has regressed in his past few fights means I dislike him? I feel the same way of Froch but i'm a big fan of the pair as I am of any english boxer except for Fury.

I don't know why you insist on bracketing the 140lb and 147lb divisions together, they've been seperate for the best part of 80 years now. We may as well ignore every single light welterweight champion in history with the exception of Ross because they weren't the Welterweight champion.

by hogey Sat 25 Jan - 10:32

Its not bad for a fighter to only land 30% (a good success rate at top level by the way) and also very common for Khan to start like a racing snake. It was already clear by the 3rd that Garcia was working Khan out and it doesn't matter if you are only landing 20% if they are effective shots and they take your opponent out. As that fight went on Garcia would have landed more and more frequently, frankly that big hook done Khan a favour and saved him a more prolonged beating. You only need to look at them both since that night to see which is the top level fighter and which is the flashy and fast but ultimately flawed fighter. Khan is a good fighter, Garcia is an elite fighter.
That's why Garcia could get in a ring and fight Mattysee and put it all on the line against someone many thought would beat him, yet on the other hand Khan wont fight anyone at all in case he loses and blows his chance to get an undeserved shot at Floyd.
I hope you never referee if you thought that stoppage was potentially early, Khan was gone and the fight was over.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 25 Jan - 10:36

I've never considered Matthyse to be the second coming but he proved against Garcia what he's all about, a relentless power puncher with a cast iron chin, he's there to be outboxed but you have to be pretty damn good to do it. Three years i'd have backed Khan heavily to win especially after the Maidana and Judah fights but right now he gets taken out within four rounds if the Diaz fight is anything to go by.

by hogey Sat 25 Jan - 10:41

Mattysee would put any version of Khan away inside 4 rounds, Khan has always been easy to hit and if Lucas lands you are in the brown stuff.

by titaniumjaw Sat 25 Jan - 10:41

ATG doesn't matter if Danny threw one punch he cleaned khan out end off story I have alway thought that khan Is the most over rated fighter in boxing today my 9 year kid daughter could get schooled of khan for 3 rounds and she's work him out and make him walk like a baby giraffe if she clocked him

by All Time Great Sat 25 Jan - 10:42

Garcia cannot be considered an elite fighter, I'm sorry that's just going too far. If he beats say Bradley convincingly, then yes he could be.

But getting destroyed by Khan for the best part of 2.75 rounds (he got cut too), and almost losing to Judah does not signify an elite fighter.

He's an above average LW/WW. In my opinion, he'll be beaten, probably in his next couple of fights.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 25 Jan - 10:45

If he was getting destroyed he wouldn't be standing up, what a insanely stupid and ridiculous comment to make. Yes he'll get beaten, 99.999999999% of boxers do but almost losing to Judah isn't as bad as almost getting beaten by a blown up old never was lightweight in Diaz.

by All Time Great Sat 25 Jan - 10:45

titaniumjaw wrote:ATG doesn't matter if Danny threw one punch he cleaned khan out end off story I have alway thought that khan Is the most over rated fighter in boxing today my 9 year kid daughter could get schooled of khan for 3 rounds and she's work him out and make him walk like a baby giraffe if she clocked him

Winning a silver medal at the Olympics when you're 17... Then going on to beat the likes of Maidana, Diaz, Kotelnik, Judah and Paulie M (all of whom have been World Champions), I wouldn't consider Khan overrated, just flawed in his defensive abilities. Otherwise, probably the best offensive boxer in the LW/WW division right now.

by hogey Sat 25 Jan - 10:48

You do realise how ridiculous an argument it is to make about someone not being top level because they got out boxed for the first couple of rounds in a championship fight by a bloke they then destroyed in 4. Good fighter often lose the first round or 2 until they find their range it doesn't mean anything as long as you fight well for the remainder of the bout.

by All Time Great Sat 25 Jan - 10:48

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If he was getting destroyed he wouldn't be standing up, what a insanely stupid and ridiculous comment to make. Yes he'll get beaten, 99.999999999% of boxers do but almost losing to Judah isn't as bad as almost getting beaten by a blown up old never was lightweight in Diaz.

Diaz got a draw against that guy that just beat Alezander didn't he? No ones saying it wasn't a below par performance, but it's obvious from the fight Khan was using new strategies. I wouldn't write him off yet.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 25 Jan - 10:48

Other than Matthyse, Garcia, Thurman, Marquez, Bradley, Pacquiao and most of all Mayweather yes he might be the best offensive boxer around his weight. Since when was beating Diaz seen as an achievement?

by All Time Great Sat 25 Jan - 10:51

hogey wrote:You do realise how ridiculous an argument it is to make about someone not being top level because they got out boxed for the first couple of rounds in a championship fight by a bloke they then destroyed in 4. Good fighter often lose the first round or 2 until they find their range it doesn't mean anything as long as you fight well for the remainder of the bout.

If Garcia didn't land that punch, by the end of round 4 the ref would of probably stopped the fight in favour of Khan. He really was taking a hammering.

Watch the fight back. It was more one sided than the beating that Molina took against Khan.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 25 Jan - 10:53

Is that what the compubox numbers tell you?

by hogey Sat 25 Jan - 10:53

Amir, you can stay here all night you wont convince us Very Happy

by Lumbering_Jack Sat 25 Jan - 12:03

All Time Great wrote:
hogey wrote:You do realise how ridiculous an argument it is to make about someone not being top level because they got out boxed for the first couple of rounds in a championship fight by a bloke they then destroyed in 4. Good fighter often lose the first round or 2 until they find their range it doesn't mean anything as long as you fight well for the remainder of the bout.

If Garcia didn't land that punch, by the end of round 4 the ref would of probably stopped the fight in favour of Khan. He really was taking a hammering.

Watch the fight back. It was more one sided than the beating that Molina took against Khan.

Garcia did land the punch. This is a very important fact.

I thought the tactics of Garcia were obvious. Pity Khan, the supreme boxer he is, couldn't keep out the way of that left hook.

by bellchees Sat 25 Jan - 12:40

All Time Great wrote:
hogey wrote:You do realise how ridiculous an argument it is to make about someone not being top level because they got out boxed for the first couple of rounds in a championship fight by a bloke they then destroyed in 4. Good fighter often lose the first round or 2 until they find their range it doesn't mean anything as long as you fight well for the remainder of the bout.

If Garcia didn't land that punch, by the end of round 4 the ref would of probably stopped the fight in favour of Khan. He really was taking a hammering.

Watch the fight back. It was more one sided than the beating that Molina took against Khan.

That's just absolutely ridiculous.

Garcia started slow then timed Khan perfectly, speed like Khans is hard to adjust to and can take a while for a fighter to settle because of it.

Look at Manny vs Marquez. An absolute master boxer in Marquez took some time to adjust to Manny's speed first time of asking and it nearly resulted in a first round KO, he adjusted and dominated the fight after that. Also the numbers you posted showed Garcia and Khan level on power punches landed after 3 rounds, hardly a hammering for 2.75 rounds that especially when Garcia carries more power and a better chin than Khan, thats excellent numbers for him to have and he wins a rematch 10 times out of 10.

by Diamond in the rough Sat 25 Jan - 21:36

Ridiculous how did he get lucky! Did margs get lucky against cotto in there first fight as cotto landed 47% to margs 27%

by **ShahenshahG** Sat 25 Jan - 22:56

No, he didnt get lucky - he plastered cotto

by Izzi Sat 25 Jan - 23:17

Judah was making Kostya look a bit silly from memory....? For a few seconds? Then was made to do the drunken-15-pints-of-Stella-with-no-food-dance!

Clutching at straws that Khan just got caught. There were like 24 minutes of the fight remaining, or so, and let's just see facts - Khan is not good enough to keep at distance and not get caught. Pure and simple, he easy very easy to punch as he leaves that glass jaw right out there to get nailed.

Garcia beats him every day of the week, each time with his left hook as he doesn't exactly have a blockbuster right. Which says a lot for Khan that he isn't good enough to avoid the main danger punch.

by All Time Great Sat 25 Jan - 23:46

Diamond in the rough wrote:Ridiculous how did he get lucky! Did margs get lucky against cotto in there first fight as cotto landed 47% to margs 27%

Do I even need to respond to this one?

by All Time Great Sat 25 Jan - 23:54

Danny Garcia is not the second coming, he just scraped past Ashley Theopane and Kendall Holt for goodness sake.

Khan was thoroughly outclassing Garcia until he got caught. Not with a KO blow, but with a punch that rendered his senses. If they fought again, Khan wins by stoppage in round 5 or 6 if he doesn't get complacent.

It reminded me of the Lewis Rahman fight.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 25 Jan - 23:59

Garcia stood up to Matthyse's best shots and you think Khan someone not known as a noted puncher stops him in 6. Stop the BS nobody is taking it seriously, in fact it's quite embarrassing to watch.

by Herman Jaeger Sun 26 Jan - 0:00

Garcia getting too much credit for the Matthysse win.

Another corrupt GB referee.

Matthysse wasn't allowed to do any work on the inside where he 's at his most dangerous. Ref jumps in any time they get close.

Hatton-Mayweather all over again , only a bit more subtle.

If there's ever a rematch, Matthysse would have to insist on a different referee.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 26 Jan - 0:02

They are both golden boy fighters Herman, that renders your theory redundant and as is a common them with you cretinous WUMs pathetic.

by Rowley Sun 26 Jan - 0:05

villa would have won the league last year but for all those teams that beat us.

by Herman Jaeger Sun 26 Jan - 0:06

Garcia the money man with the following you complete Joey Deacon.

I haven't mentioned it before because of the reaction you just gave me. But i don't make things up just for the sake of it. Go back and have a look.

by Rowley Sun 26 Jan - 0:07

Can we stop with the insults before they get out of hand. I don't want to spend a weekend cleaning up threads.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 26 Jan - 0:09

Is that why going into that fight Matthyse had earned more facing Peterson than Garcia had facing Khan, there's no benefit for GBP favouring one over the other.

by Herman Jaeger Sun 26 Jan - 0:12

Except Garcia has a big following.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 26 Jan - 0:15

Does he really or are you assuming that because when he fought Judah, it was Zab who drew the crowd in not Garcia, same with his fight against Khan while Matthyse was on the undercard of Mayweather.

by Herman Jaeger Sun 26 Jan - 0:17

Big Puerto Rican following.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 26 Jan - 0:19

Just like Matthyse has a big Argentinian following, doesn't mean a lot if they aren't coughing up the money.

by Herman Jaeger Sun 26 Jan - 0:22

If who aren't coughing up the money?

by hogey Sun 26 Jan - 3:54

Garcia beat Mattysee in every department, no lame excuses will spoil the reality of the fact Garcia out boxed him, out fought him and out thought him. Lucas is one of my favourite fighters but he was beaten comfortably by the better man. Garcia is still young and will continue to improve, whether people give him the credit he deserves or continue to explain him beating top fighters by coming out with ridiculous excuses like we have heard on this thread, Garcia will go from strength to strength.

by Herman Jaeger Sun 26 Jan - 4:27

No ridiculous excuses, The referee was on a mission. Matthysse wasn't allowed to work on the inside.

by Diamond in the rough Sun 26 Jan - 4:39

All Time Great wrote:
Diamond in the rough wrote:Ridiculous how did he get lucky! Did margs get lucky against cotto in there first fight as cotto landed 47% to margs 27%

Do I even need to respond to this one?

Well you did say

an average 48% punches landed percentage vs. 28% (this is with Khan throwing more punches). I don't consider that skill, I consider that getting very lucky.

So I was pointing out how cotto was landing at a far higher rate then marg! Yet he got plastered

by **ShahenshahG** Sun 26 Jan - 6:10

Are you suggesting Garcia used Plaster of Paris to beat Khan(?! - in tribute to Tino)

by Diamond in the rough Sun 26 Jan - 6:49

ShahenshahG wrote:Are you suggesting Garcia used Plaster of Paris to beat Khan(?! - in tribute to Tino)

Maybe it was the wrong fight to pick..

by Herman Jaeger Sun 26 Jan - 6:54

There was an interview with Angie Garcia in the days following his son's victory over Matthysee in which he was asked for his response to those fans who questioned his son's desire to face the Argentine.

He replied something along the lines of that Danny always wanted the fight and that Danny always wants to test himself against the best. He said that Schaefer told him that if he didn't want Matthysse, then he(GB Promotions) could make Matthysse disappear, to which Angie replied no way, we want Matthysse, you've got to make the Matthysse fight happen.

Now besides showing what a tw*t Schaefer really is- not a sportsman at all, what I'd really like to ask is this - what motive would Schaefer have for saying to Garcia Sr that he could make Matthysse 'disappear?'

by hogey Sun 26 Jan - 7:24

Who cares they fought Garcia won by a decent margin, franky he outclassed Lucas who looked slow and clueless at times. Sometimes its better to admit the better man won like Mattysee did himself rather than to worry yourself with silly conspiracy theories that sound a bit pathetic.
Lucas will be back and will still be a force, but he will always struggle to beat fighters who can box well and take his shot because although he is still box office is also a little limited.

by Herman Jaeger Sun 26 Jan - 7:30

Worry myself over a mere boxing match? Not me. Just making an observation.

With a neutral referee, I still make Matthysse the favourite to win any return.

by hogey Sun 26 Jan - 7:38

Fair enough mate, though in all honesty it was so one sided at times i doubt Lucas will want a return, so i think both men will go on to different paths. I would love to see Lucas pick up a belt before his career ends though a fighter who gives his all and is great to watch.

by Herman Jaeger Sun 26 Jan - 7:48

I have said previously Garcia boxed a great fight, but I stand by my accusation aimed at the ref. Maybe I need a shrink, I don't know. This is not something I've just come up with though. I remember thinking it during the fight. I haven't mentioned it before, as I suspected it might cause a violent reaction and that people would accuse me of being(as a Matthysse fan,) a sore loser.

by hogey Sun 26 Jan - 8:08

Dont worry about others reactions mate, its all about opinions and it would be boring of we all thought the same thing.

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