Will Anyone Ever Surpass Louis & Marciano (Or Replicate Fitz)?

Simple questions really:

1. Will any fighter ever surpass Joe Louis's record of 25 championship defences (at any weight)? *We're talking championships here rather than alphabet titles

2. Will a heavyweight ever surpass Marciano's record and retire as unbeaten champion?

3. Will a middleweight champion ever replicate Bob Fitzimmons' feat of winning THE heavyweight championship?

1. Depends If there are a load of Galento types about........

2. Probably..

3. Why are you popping at Jones Jr again ??

4. If they did...You'd still call them s**te...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:1. Depends If there are a load of Galento types about........

2. Probably..

3. Why are you popping at Jones Jr again ??

4. If they did...You'd still call them s**te...

1. There are

2. Thanks

3. WTF?

4. It depends if they were s**t or not.

Being serious though the problem is fighters of today like Ward, Mayweather, rigo, Jones jr, Whittaker, Manny etc are so technically useless compared to the Fullmer, Basilio, Schmelling types of years gone by....That I think the days of a middleweight becoming heavy champion are long since gone....

Maybe If we are lucky we'll see someone with Marciano's elusiveness and Louis chin again in the future....

Until then it's mediocrity all the way..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Being serious though the problem is fighters of today like Ward, Mayweather, rigo, Jones jr, Whittaker, Manny etc are so technically useless compared to the Fullmer, Basilio, Schmelling types of years gone by....That I think the days of a middleweight becoming heavy champion are long since gone....

Maybe If we are lucky we'll see someone with Marciano's elusiveness and Louis chin again in the future....

Until then it's mediocrity all the way..

  

Look Mate I'm away for the weekend...So enjoy yourself and keep pretending you are fair and balanced about modern fighters.....

I'm sure someone will believe you.......

Jones jr was a great fighter by the way and technically excellent.....Show him more respect...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Look Mate I'm away for the weekend...So enjoy yourself and keep pretending you are fair and balanced about modern fighters.....

I'm sure someone will believe you.......

Jones jr was a great fighter by the way and technically excellent.....Show him more respect...

Are you on the wrong thread?

Vitali retired at 41 odd? Wlad is 37 and a quick check shows 15 defenses? HW scene remains crud for another few years?

Where does Wlad sit relative to Louis if he got to 25 haz?

joeyjojo618 wrote:Vitali retired at 41 odd? Wlad is 37 and a quick check shows 15 defenses? HW scene remains crud for another few years?

Where does Wlad sit relative to Louis if he got to 25 haz?

Depends on when you think he became divisional boss. Ring reckon in '09 against Chagaev - so that's eight. Others claim he just became boss against Povetkin.

1. No cant see it happening

2. Yes will probably be broken at some stage.

3. Couldnt say but probably not.

catchweight wrote:1. No cant see it happening

2. Yes will probably be broken at some stage.

3. Couldnt say but probably not.

First is tough. Holmes (2), Jones and Toney (3) came close to the others so you'd have to think they were on for the right type of fighter).

Id naively guess 3) is the most likely to go. For whatever reason boxers can put a lot of good weight on these days, and the HW division looks sparse once Wlad does one.

I think Marcianos is most likely to go. Even someone like Wilder will prob be 40-0 at the end of the year at the rate he fights bums. Its unlikely but not impossible he could wait out Klitschko or beat him in a year or twos time and make a few bum defences and retire. A genuinely great heavyweight would have definitely beaten Marcianos record in this last decade of crap.

Louis looks very secure.

The difficulty for most guys in beating Louis’ 25 defences is that unified champions are rare in extremis. You normally need to have had a few defences of a title, built up a following and become financially viable before you secure a unification fight, so even if this is for all four belts (unlikely) you have probably wasted two years and six fights to get to this point. You are probably looking at ten fights to unify all four belts, if you get your foot down and get a lot of luck. To then expect a guy to rack up another 25 fights is pretty unrealistic, particularly with how infrequently modern guys fight. So would guess Louis’ record is not likely.

Similarly a middle winning the heavyweight championship is a big ask, in Fitz day Jeffries was considered a giant of a man, he was rarely above 220 and not more than 6ft 2, he would be a midget by modern heavyweight standards. Jumping 30Ib is impressive but within the realms of possibility, jumping 60Ib pound and conceding a guy five or six inches in height would seem a bridge too far.

Of the three Marciano’s record seems the most likely to achieve.

There are so many divisions now that I cant see fighters below light heavyweight spending an entire career at one weight to be champion long enough to beat Louis. Its an amazing achievement. Very hard to see it being surpassed.

Day before weigh ins will favour middleweights moving to heavyweight. You could have a huge middleweight that drains himself down and eventually moves to heavyweight. But its still a tough ask. Jones thing is kind of balls because if it wasnt for numerous titles then he wouldnt have done it at all.

Very true Catchweight, apparently King had lined up Holyfield and Tyson for Jones next, if he did not fancy the faded shells of those guys he was never likely to go at it with Lewis in something approaching his prime was he.

No Lewis would have murdered Jones.

For Marciano's record - can the boxer do what Valuev was attempting? Fight bums -> become paper champion -> unify then retire? If that satisfies the conditions then I agree that is the most likely. But it seems a bit of a cop out.

If for 1) and 2) the guy has to remain the man at HW for essentially a decade then 3) is most likely for me. All it requires is a garbage HW division and one great MW. Also MW's do not fight at 160 anymore, they drain themselves to 160.

Being unified champ these days is so rare that these conditions probably make it a bit too tough for the fighters of today. I'd count Wlad Klitschko as undisputed, for example, but strictly speaking either Arreola or Stiverne will hold a portion of that soon. It's so difficult when you have certain bodies actively discouraging belt unification.

The Marciano one is most probable (still unlikely) , I'd say. Unless, of course, the requirement is for them to be undisputed champion for that time. The best you can hope for these days is for a champion to be universally recognised as the man. Less objective than having a clear world champion, but what can you do?

1) Yes if you count all defences of an alphabet title. No if you just count defences as the undisputed champion.

2) The most likely of the three.

3) Yes if you mean a MW can win an alphabet HW title. No if you mean a MW can become the undisputed HW champ.

The Marciano one for me is most likely. Even boiling down to 160, it'll take a hell of a guy to compete with even a fury type heavy. I think the fitz feat has moved from improbable to impossible.

joeyjojo618 wrote:For Marciano's record - can the boxer do what Valuev was attempting? Fight bums -> become paper champion -> unify then retire? If that satisfies the conditions then I agree that is the most likely. But it seems a bit of a cop out.

If for 1) and 2) the guy has to remain the man at HW for essentially a decade then 3) is most likely for me. All it requires is a garbage HW division and one great MW. Also MW's do not fight at 160 anymore, they drain themselves to 160.

Was there EVER a point where Valuev wanted to unify the titles? I always thought there was more chance of Floyd and Manny fighting for free than Valuev being involved in a unification fight.

Still, after he's found out one way or the other if the Yeti exists, I'm sure he'll be back to stake a claim for the HW title

Fury???? Of all the heavyweights you pick him??? Hes probably the type of heavyweight that a top middleweight would have a shot against. A lardass James Toney would have beaten him 5 or 6 years ago.

Fiev or six years ago James Toney was about 60lbs+ north of ever being MW again

He was an ex middleweight champion though. I assume the question isnt would a boxer weighing in at the middleweight limit become heavyweight champion. That obviously wont happen.

Worth noting that any boxer that goes from MW to a solid HW in the modern sport, is gonna need a fair amount of "assistance".
Both Jones and Toney did.

Im confident that if Valuev would have been allowed to carry a baseball bat into the ring with him he would have attempted to unify Dave. Unfortunately we will never know as he failed during the paper champ phase.

Im not sure James Toney really stuck to the subscription as it was envisaged.

1. Extremely unlikely, especially unified.

2. Brian Nielsen equalled Marciano's 49-0 by fighting bums and has-beens. Then fell over against a nobody. So it's easily possible and I expect Wilder to come close, even if we'll never have heard of 90% of his victims, either before or since they fought him.

3. Only if GGG starts training with James Toney & Chris Arreola at Taco Bell.

I'm not convinced these super heavy jugganauts are the optimum no weight limit fighters. My opinion is that if a great 15 stone fighter came along he would wipe the floor with the Klitschko's.

True catch very poorly thought out post by me, Cunningham was a natural lightheavy and had the furious one in all kinds of trouble. I hang my head in shame.

Boxing's come a long way since then so it's doubtful.

The only one worth while replicating is Fitzsimmons, the other two are too dependant on level of opposition and can be manipulated.

Yeah why would any boxer waste their time wanting replicate two of the most famous records in boxing set by Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano?

LOL