France team v England

http://www.espn.co.uk/six-nations-2014/rugby/story/211933.html

23 players picked - only 9 backs, so you can probably work out the backs - Fickou and Doussain on the bench ?

Forwards: Thomas Domingo (Clermont), Yannick Forestier (Castres), Benjamin Kayser (Clermont), Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing-Métro), Nicolas Mas (Montpellier), Rabah Slimani (Stade Français), Alexandre Flanquart (Stade Français), Yoann Maestri (Toulouse), Pascal Papé (Stade Français, captain), Bernard Le Roux (Racing-Métro), Antoine Burban (Stade Français), Yannick Nyanga (Toulouse), Damien Chouly (Clermont), Louis Picamoles (Toulouse).

Backs: Jean-Marc Doussain (Toulouse), Maxime Machenaud (Racing-Métro), Rémi Talès (Castres), Mathieu Bastareaud (Toulon), Gaël Fickou (Toulouse), Wesley Fofana (Clermont), Yoann Huget (Toulouse), Maxime Médard (Toulouse), Brice Dulin (Castres)

Lots of new names in there. Again. Tactic for England to beat this team = knacker Remi tales as early as possible ? Get Big Billy V running over him.

Bit disappointed not to see Michalak play in this years 6 nations. Will miss his comedy value.

To me that team points to what we all know is a very worrying trend for French rugby at the moment and PSA must be doing his nut in.

Toulon - The current HC champions and one of faves to win this year are only providing one player to that side and Racing the other big spenders are only supplying 2.

I have heard Kingsley Jones speak a few times about how PSA is very worried indeed that while what Toulon and Racing are doing maybe good for them, its not good for French rugby.

Bastareaud and Fofana in the middle…..this will be like a re run of Agincourt with a different result and less Kenny Branagh

There's a lot of (to me at least) unknown names in that side which is always a bit worrying but sure all coaches these days do their homework on players.

The French will be saying the same thing about the English backs. This could be a slugfest and will be more even than i had expected. huge experience in the french pack will negate the perceived invincibility of the english.

The only time the opposition will need to worry about Bastareaud is if he gets to the halftime oranges first (admittedly a little unlikely as all those pre-kick off pies will slow him down a tad).

Barney McGrew did it wrote:The only time the opposition will need to worry about Bastareaud is if he gets to the halftime oranges first (admittedly a little unlikely as all those pre-kick off pies will slow him down a tad).

Yeah hes more than likely to beat himself up too...

I wouldn't consider Basteraud a weakness with the Season he's having.

Play like this against an inexperienced second choice England backline could be very influential to the result.

https://youtu.be/5UzbUccYUW4

Put it this way, if Fofana and Bastareud play to their strengths and work well together, then htey win.
England have no answer tot hat center pairing, could be lethal. A strong scrum as well Domingo, Mas and Kayser will give them a platform and surly few penalties
there 9-10 is the only thing that i'm not confident about

There hasn't appeared to be much between Dausitour and Nyanga this season.

Picamoles hasn't been at his very best but has improved a great deal the last month or so.

France could be a good bet for the championship this year. They have tough games at home, against Wales and England.

With lads like Tales, Fofana and Dulin they are a better backline than last year.

No Michelak is a huge improvement.

What's happened to parra? I thought he was one of their best players over the last few seasons but PSA just doesn't seem to rate him or is he injured?

yappysnap wrote:What's happened to parra? I thought he was one of their best players over the last few seasons but PSA just doesn't seem to rate him or is he injured?

He was injured and was supposed to be ruled out of the whole Six Nations but some how he returned in time. For the last round of the Heineken Cup I think.

Ah yea it was against Quins. Really good game from him then, not sure how I forgot it. Guess he's not being rushed back though.

Will Greenwood has selected the team he would field against France in the Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10595437/Six-Nations-2014-Will-Greenwood-selects-his-England-team-to-kick-off-Championships-against-France-in-Paris.html

Tales and Buttin injured so Trinh Duc and Andreu got called in. No clue who will start at 10 as Tales was in the 23 men squad.

I'd have though Doussain would be at 10, he's been playing there for Stade. Good goal kicker as well which could be an.asset given the likely conditions. PSA doesn't seem to favour Trunh Duc. Fickou and Andreu to join him on the bench?

Not sure about Greenwoods selection, Hopper at 13 is insane. The guy is a decent club player and has the odd good game at HC level, but is seriously lacking to become a test level 13.

Sam, I thought that Doussain normally plays at 9 and was switched for 1 game to play 10 and had a blinder?

Is Greenwood on drugs? Walker is not only injured but also nowhere near ready.

I mean the pack is fine, literally the AI pack but his back selections and the stuff he is writing really makes me worry about his sanity...

His love affair with Goode is especially worrying, never seen a player look so lost at Test level (Tomkins aside that is)

I also assume he hasn't watched Youngs play this season. Not in the best of form...

maestegmafia wrote:I wouldn't consider Basteraud a weakness with the Season he's having.

Play like this against an inexperienced second choice England backline could be very influential to the result.

https://youtu.be/5UzbUccYUW4

Thing is maestegmafia that we've heard it about him before. Bastareaud is always hyped up based on his club form, and almost always gets absolutely nowhere against us. He's never had a good game against England, and Tuilagi was on a completely different level to him last year. That could change next week of course, and we will have an inexperienced back line, but the direct match-up between him and our centres will only really last one phase. After that, Wood, Robshaw, Lawes etc will come into play, and they're all perfectly capable of dealing with him.

I want to see Brown coming onto a pop ball in the Fofana - Bastareud channel. Could be hilarious and he's actually been drawing the man-passing and offloading for Quins the past few games

ChequeredJersey wrote:I want to see Brown coming onto a pop ball in the Fofana - Bastareud channel. Could be hilarious and he's actually been drawing the man-passing and offloading for Quins the past few games

Lets be honest - what you'd (we'd) rather see is a rerun of the May try from the other day with the comic effect of someone tracking him and running into Basteraud (and probably bouncing off)

bedfordwelsh wrote:To me that team points to what we all know is a very worrying trend for French rugby at the moment and PSA must be doing his nut in.

Toulon - The current HC champions and one of faves to win this year are only providing one player to that side and Racing the other big spenders are only supplying 2.

I have heard Kingsley Jones speak a few times about how PSA is very worried indeed that while what Toulon and Racing are doing maybe good for them, its not good for French rugby.

Couldn't agree more.  The screw is tightening.  But before we take his argument too far, France still have 14 clubs and that is quite a lot for surfacing talent.  I also agree this will be a bigger and bigger problem and English Rugby need to be vigilant and ensure a positive working partnership between the clubs and England to avoid going down the same rat-hole.  

Looking at this French team, it seems to me the one thing which is missing is the bloodyminded leadership of a guy like Fabien Pelous.  That is the kind of player which lifts teams.  Shame for France is they have yet to replace him.

Those saying Bastareud is in great form and thus will destroy our backline- our Saxons backs were in good form. Tomkins pre-AIs was in good form... Ashton is in good form!

Tuilagi and Barrit are the only so called English backs capable of dealing properly with bastarocket. he doesnt need to be in good form to make yards against RL converts such as Tomkins or that quins no-hopper guy .
the problem with him his that once he makes a break he falls on the ground too quickly / gets isolated / knockon the ball...and always concede a penalty or a scrum.

doctor_grey wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:To me that team points to what we all know is a very worrying trend for French rugby at the moment and PSA must be doing his nut in.

Toulon - The current HC champions and one of faves to win this year are only providing one player to that side and Racing the other big spenders are only supplying 2.

I have heard Kingsley Jones speak a few times about how PSA is very worried indeed that while what Toulon and Racing are doing maybe good for them, its not good for French rugby.

Couldn't agree more.  The screw is tightening.  But before we take his argument too far, France still have 14 clubs and that is quite a lot for surfacing talent.  I also agree this will be a bigger and bigger problem and English Rugby need to be vigilant and ensure a positive working partnership between the clubs and England to avoid going down the same rat-hole.  

Looking at this French team, it seems to me the one thing which is missing is the bloodyminded leadership of a guy like Fabien Pelous.  That is the kind of player which lifts teams.  Shame for France is they have yet to replace him.

In some ways the huge cash boost in France could be beneficial to English players in the Premiership. Certainly the best foreign imports (gap year all black etc) are more likely to be going to France than to England ...so the elite english players shouldnt be frozen out of their match day sides too often. The mediocre players may still miss out to cheaper Tongans or whatever but really that shouldnt matter to the national side, its the best 4 in each position that really matter along with a constant flow of young kids getting gametime.
In England there really isnt a problem with the foreign invasion at this point nor do the signs suggest its likely to develop into one in the near future. In France though it does look like things have gone past a tipping point, especially in positions like Fly Half where even with the new Jiff regulations. Its not purely a numbers issue, theres still a dickload more French pro players than there are welsh ones, but a problem of a number of elite ones sitting on the bench for non qualified players. And as more and more of the biggest names in world rugby Flood over for the easy life that will only get worse.

There is a problem in France that a much larger proportion of fans care about the league than they do tests or the HC than in other nations. Or a t least a problem for those who want to see a strong french national team and dont want to see every good player in the world go there rather than Japan for a pension fund boost.

As for Basteraud the other problem is how he manages in defense..

If, as seems likely, Burrell and Twelvetrees are our centre partnership I won't be worried about the big Bast. Neither are small chaps, and one terrible missed tackle from Twelvetrees aside, are both decent defenders

whocares wrote:Tuilagi and Barrit are the only so called English backs capable of dealing properly with bastarocket.  he doesnt need to be in good form to make yards against RL converts such as Tomkins or that quins no-hopper guy .
the problem with him his that once he makes a break he falls on the ground too quickly / gets isolated / knockon the ball...and always concede a penalty or a scrum.

Lucky that neither of them are even in England's training squad then...

Chequeredjersey our Saxons backs were not in good form. That's part of the problem..... Plus most are overrated.

Would you really say the likes of Sharples,Burns and Simpson were in good form?

I looked at that Saxons backline and was hugely worried - justifiably so.

Ashton is in good form (the best performing winger in England at the moment) yet the calls to drop him are deafening.

You say you don't like Greenwood's backline suggestions - who would you pick instead?

belovedfrosties you do know that Goode is one of the players on the long list for HC player of the season? One of the best performers in the HC with 3rd most metres made and 3rd most amount of defenders beaten.

Greenwood rates Goode because he appreciates a player with a good rugby brain. Goode has not been bad at international level in my opinion. Certainly not as bad as made out.

Brown is the better FB at the moment but Goode has done okay. Would be nice if Goode actually had the opportunity to play with two wingers.

I get sick and tired of the Saracens backs getting repeatedly criticised unjustifiably. They never get praised when England do well. Oh it was the forwards who won the match, etc.

The "exciting" Saxons backs had an opportunity to shine but they failed.

beshocked wrote:Chequeredjersey our Saxons backs were not in good form. That's part of the problem..... Plus most are overrated.

Would you really say the likes of Sharples,Burns and Simpson were in good form?

I looked at that Saxons backline and was hugely worried - justifiably so.

Ashton is in good form (the best performing winger in England at the moment) yet the calls to drop him are deafening.

You say you don't like Greenwood's backline suggestions - who would you pick instead?

belovedfrosties you do know that Goode is one of the players on the long list for HC player of the season? One of the best performers in the HC with 3rd most metres made and 3rd most amount of defenders beaten.

Greenwood rates Goode because he appreciates a player with a good rugby brain. Goode has not been bad at international level in my opinion. Certainly not as bad as made out.

Brown is the better FB at the moment but Goode has done okay. Would be nice if Goode actually had the opportunity to play with two wingers.

I get sick and tired of the Saracens backs getting repeatedly criticised unjustifiably. They never get praised when England do well. Oh it was the forwards who won the match, etc.

The "exciting" Saxons backs had an opportunity to shine but they failed.

Brown
May
Burrell or Barritt
Twelvetrees
Nowell or I suppose Ashton buying a final round at last orders in Last Chance Saloon
Farrell
Anyone but Youngs (obviously Care but he's still out so Wrigglesworth or Dickson would do nicely)


Things I definitely disagree with Greenwood over- Goode may be a good player but England's most talented is a weeeeeeeee bit of hyperbole... Walker certainly should not play wing for England yet. Hopper CERTAINLY shouldn't play centre for England, probably ever. Youngs is in awful form, I mean truly awful, and it's not like Care and Youngs are polar opposite 9s as suggested in the article. Burrell- maybe. Maybe Barritt.

In the Saxons, Watson, Daly, Hopper and Lewis, Slade and Miller on the bench were on form.
Some of them did ok. Some, like Watson, didn't look ready. Some like Hopper might never be, useful as he is for Quins. Simpson and Burns were dire

lostinwales wrote:As for Basteraud the other problem is how he manages in defense..

We'd have to actually launch an attack in the centre channel first though

beshocked wrote:
Greenwood rates Goode because he appreciates a player with a good rugby brain. Goode has not been bad at international level in my opinion. Certainly not as bad as made out.

Brown is the better FB at the moment but Goode has done okay. Would be nice if Goode actually had the opportunity to play with two wingers.

Personally I thought Goode was ineffective from the start at international level, after an over-hyped performance against Fiji. That said, he's been better than ever for Saracens in the last few months, particularly those breaks he made against Connacht leading to a try and assist before Connacht completely stopped trying. If for whatever reason he did end up starting at 15 this year I wouldn't be concerned.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

lostinwales wrote:As for Basteraud the other problem is how he manages in defense..

We'd have to actually launch an attack in the centre channel first though

Try to get one of the Vunipola's running at him from second receiver. We should be able to manage that from phase play or a long lineout.

whocares wrote:Tuilagi and Barrit are the only so called English backs capable of dealing properly with bastarocket.  he doesnt need to be in good form to make yards against RL converts such as Tomkins or that quins no-hopper guy .
the problem with him his that once he makes a break he falls on the ground too quickly / gets isolated / knockon the ball...and always concede a penalty or a scrum.

I'm not sure that's true...

Plus Barritt could well be at 13

My only real problem with Goode is that he doesnt have the physical attributes to make it as an international FB. His brain is right up there and he has a nice kicking game and that seems to be about it. ( oh yeah - there is the 'distribution skills'). He was exceptional on that rainy day vs Ireland - his positioning and kicking was terrific. But he isnt the best tackler, doesnt have real pace (they say he has 'deceptive pace' ...) and isnt hard to defend against.

The alternatives are players like Brown - who also isnt 'proper' quick but is very strong and hard to put down, or guys like Foden, Tait and maybe Watson - all of whom are proper quick and cover a lot of other bases too.

Goode is good, just isnt as good as the alternatives. At int level you would have to say he looks like he would be a better 10 or even 12, but it seems to late for that.

Chequeredjersey Greenwood is a decent pundit. One of the best. I take his opinion far more seriously than Stephen Jones,Guscott,Barnes etc. If he rates Goode then that's good enough for me.

Goode has been performing far better than Watson for example but has been getting less hype.

thomh that's your opinion. Fair enough. I feel that Goode is unfairly criticised. He has his weaknesses sure but I feel that they are heavily focussed upon whereas his strengths are ignored.

I don't feel like he is utilised properly by England - if you pick him then use his strengths - e.g. his brain and playmaking abilities.

Brown fits Lancaster's gameplan more effectively and has done very well.

Goode played particularly well vs Ireland away and was hampered with Brown on the wing (no offence but his defensive positioning was woeful) when he was given the 15 shirt.

I think a back three of Wade,Ashton and Goode would work far better than Brown,Ashton,Goode for example.

I think its irrlevant who gets picked...our tactics are stifling for any decent attacking play.

Shockingly I agree, having a good FB and 2 wingers is better than having a good FB, one winger and one better or at least as good fullback playing out of position on the wing (thus easy to expose in defence) and thus not really having enough pace in the back 3.

I just think that a back 3 of Wade, Yarde and Brown is even better

In regards to neutralising Bastareaud, pick either Barritt or Burrell.

Personally I would be tempted to go for Burrell-Barritt centre partnership. Barritt would tackle Basteraud to a standstill.

Burrell has earnt a start up and frankly when dealing with a Fofana-Bastearaud centre partnership you need your best defender which is Barritt.

I still think 36 is a bit overrated. He is supposedly meant to make England a more attacking side but has not done that.

weather forecast for saturday : 2-8 deg C with rain. sh*te pitch. penalty contest.

Chequeredjersey the thing is that Yarde and Wade are largely unproven at international level. We can speculate how amazing that could be but till they play.....

Perhaps they'll struggle just as much - starved of ball any winger looks ineffective.

Geordiefalcon I agree. It's the tactics but what you would change?

The obvious thing is to tell Farrell to play flatter but what else?

Oh no, how will we execute our attack-based offloading and running game?!

Only two concerns about Burrell as a Saints fan. First, he has been at 12 most of the season and don't think he ever started at 13. He did cover there in the end of a few matches. He is a direct runner which might be better suited for the inside channel. He is not bad moving laterally, but defending the wider space outside might be less of an area of strength. Otherwise, I am happy for him and hope he makes us all proud.

It's weird, but I never really thought of him as playing at International level, then I look more closely and see he is performing just about as well an any Inside Centre I have seen this season. Does his work in a strangely quiet manner. And worked doggedly hard to improve his passing game.

beshocked wrote:Chequeredjersey the thing is that Yarde and Wade are largely unproven at international level. We can speculate how amazing that could be but till they play.....

Perhaps they'll struggle just as much - starved of ball any winger looks ineffective.

Geordiefalcon I agree. It's the tactics but what you would change?

The obvious thing is to tell Farrell to play flatter but what else?

Me personally? Have big runners from the pack running the inside ball for 12 and the blindside winger looking for the occasional inside "Flood" pop. Full back joining the line. But most importantly, RUNNING it from 9. How can the 10 spark an attack when the defence is dead set because there's no need to mark 9 or 10? Inside runners and a threat at 9 immediately takes defensive pressure off the backline

Doctor grey I think Burrell at 12 and Barritt at 13 would be just fine.

Barritt at 13 worked well vs Scotland and Ireland. He did not hamper England's attack vs Scotland and he shackled BOD vs Ireland.

Beshocked...thats the question isnt it.

I do think Lancaster has been a little unlucky with injuries to key players etc...however for me there just seems no plan B if said players are unavailable.

To me its the interaction between the forwards and back, and crucially its almost as though some of the backs are playing different styles to their normal club game.

Some of our forward carrying has been woeful...on Saturday i want to see Billy, Mako, Hartley etc in rampaging form hitting spaces and dragging in defenders to create space for the backs. That in itself would be a start.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

beshocked wrote:Chequeredjersey the thing is that Yarde and Wade are largely unproven at international level. We can speculate how amazing that could be but till they play.....

Perhaps they'll struggle just as much - starved of ball any winger looks ineffective.

Geordiefalcon I agree. It's the tactics but what you would change?

The obvious thing is to tell Farrell to play flatter but what else?

Me personally? Have big runners from the pack running the inside ball for 12 and the blindside winger looking for the occasional inside "Flood" pop. Full back joining the line. But most importantly, RUNNING it from 9. How can the 10 spark an attack when the defence is dead set because there's no need to mark 9 or 10? Inside runners and a threat at 9 immediately takes defensive pressure off the backline

That's a good idea.

Problem with running it from 9 is that Youngs is in woeful form, Care in my opinion has not convinced at international level for some time. Dickson or Wigglesworth are not a running threat.

Also that's not how Lancaster's England play. He likes the Dicksons and Wigglesworth's.

You could argue the backline balance is all wrong. I think there is room for more defensive players but they need to be balanced out with more attacking players.