Australia v England: 5th ODI, Adelaide

First topic message reminder :

Australia:
AJ Finch, SE Marsh, SR Watson, MJ Clarke*, GJ Bailey, GJ Maxwell, MS Wade†, JP Faulkner, CJ McKay, NM Coulter-Nile, XJ Doherty

England:
AN Cook*, IR Bell, BA Stokes, JE Root, EJG Morgan, RS Bopara, JC Buttler†, TT Bresnan, SCJ Broad, CJ Jordan, JC Tredwell

Doing their best to throw it away. Bresnan run out now...

Great piece if fielding , yes. But still.

Up to Broad now.

Bresnan run out, responding to Bopara's very risky call.

23 needed off 5 overs. A good thing for England is that Broad and (if required) Jordan can both give it some welly. We'll still get there, I reckon.

Bresnan run-out to bring Australia back into the game. The low-scoring games are 10 times more interesting than the slogfests!.

Have to say the quick single probably isn't Tim Bresnan's strong suit   

Seemed to take a long time to accelerate...bit of a waste.

Nice four from Broad now.  

guildfordbat wrote:Bresnan run out, responding to Bopara's very risky call.

23 needed off 5 overs. A good thing for England is that Broad and (if required) Jordan can both give it some welly. We'll still get there, I reckon.

If we do it will be by the skin of our teeth ! Broad gone and I reckon it is evens...

Crucial boundary from Broad. England need 14 of the last 3. Yet again its their's to lose.......

Both Jordan and Tredwell can bat. But the pressure of the situation is something else.......

Who ever is going to win - hurry up! Mrs Bat wants to watch the tennis!!   

msp83 wrote:Crucial boundary from Broad. England need 14 of the last 3. Yet again its their's to lose.......

Think I'd have traded the boundary for keeping that wicket.

Singles would have done it. Only need a couple of big hits now of course : but only two wickets...

England just a couple of hits away with a couple of overs and a couple of wickets remaining.

Bopara had better win this from here, he has put a lot of pressure on the other batsmen...

Twelve from twelve ... Nine from nine...

And Bopara out to a very unlucky accidental stumping...

Well they really threw it away earlier ; but that was dead unlucky...or lucky , if you are an Aussie fan   

It was lucky alfie but no way should England have been in that position. Bopara has really let the side down here.

Nachos Jones wrote:Bopara had better win this from here, he has put a lot of pressure on the other batsmen...

Not fair to blame Bopara. If a couple of other batsmen had stayed calm they'd have won this easily.

Actually I blame guildford for the repeated jinxes   

I do blame Bopara alfie, as much as I hate to blame but England were cruising until he came in and batted extremely negatively. He put the pressure on the other players to take unnecessary risks and get themselves out.

Well done Australia but England lost this more than they won it.

KP_fan wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:The owners need to sort out the domain renewal - 3rd anniversary today I believe.

Don't see anything other than an England win here. The pitch couldn't be that slow and low scoring, England bowled well and Australia batted poorly.

there is a rule...or call it a theory...that works often...that the pace and momentum of the second inning in an ODI follows the shape of the first inning

I told you..there are some theories that stand  the test of time most times

Did England CHOKE   
AGAIN...in a close game

Thanks Nachos.

and Wawrinka has beaten Nadal to win the Australian Open.

two amazing results considering...

Well well well. England have managed to lose this game.
That Bopara dismissal was one of the most freakish I've seen, but he has played a massive part in dragging England to this utter mess. He shoul have rotated the strike much better, that start, 2 of 20 balls was absolutely unacceptable and horrendous.
Credit to Australia, they just didn't give up at any point.

We'll have to disagree there nachos. Reckon they had it well in hand , only needed one to stay with Bopara , picking up ones and twos and they could have won easily.

And in fact if that ball hadn't bounced off Wade and landed on the stumps they probably still would have.

4-1, at least England got one victory this series

Wawrinka winning is huge, massive congrats to him.

And young James Faulkner with another crucial matchwinning performance. He dragged the Australian score to 217, and then bowled a superb spell in the middle overs that derailed the England innings.

Nachos - as well as me jinxing it (sorry!), I go along with Alfie. Too many other batsmen (Morgan, Root and Buttler) all preceived pressure when they needn't have done and got themselves out taking unnecessary risks. Bopara didn't much help the position at times - he was badly at fault calling the well set Bresnan for an always dicey single - but others need to be questioned as well.

msp83 wrote:Well well well. England have managed to lose this game.
That Bopara dismissal was one of the most freakish I've seen, but he has played a massive part in dragging England to this utter mess. He shoul have rotated the strike much better, that start, 2 of 20 balls was absolutely unacceptable and horrendous.
Credit to Australia, they just didn't give up at any point.

Bopara did start very slowly. But in the end they ran out of wickets , not balls. Bit of lack of experience got a couple of wickets. And some handy bowling and fielding from Australia , it must be said.

alfie wrote:We'll have to disagree there nachos.  Reckon they had it well in hand , only needed one to stay with Bopara , picking up ones and twos and they could have won easily.

And in fact if that ball hadn't bounced off Wade and landed on the stumps they probably still would have.

It was very unlucky but at the end of the day, England were cruising but with Bopara batting so negatively the RRR increased forcing other players to hit out and compensate for his low RR.

Unfair to pin all the blame on Bopara

How about Cook giving his wicket away needlessly again?

How many times?

It's not one person's fault. This teams confidence is shot to pieces, and one win against a 2nd string outfit wasn't going to change that.

Anyway , I never care too much about random ODI results. But this was a disappointing loss after most of the hard work had been done.

Still it wouldn't have been right to beat the Australians on Australia Day   

guildfordbat wrote:Nachos - as well as me jinxing it (sorry!), I go along with Alfie. Too many other batsmen (Morgan, Root and Buttler) all preceived pressure when they needn't have done and got themselves out taking unnecessary risks. Bopara didn't much help the position at times - he was badly at fault calling the well set Bresnan for an always dicey single - but others need to be questioned as well.

Root batted slowly but got the runs on the board, Mogs scored at a run a ball and Buttler tried to keep things moving while Bopara sucked up the strike and allowed the RRR to increase rapidly. A few others may be questioned but I cant accept Bopara's innings here. 2 off 20 at the start of his innings placed too much unnecessary pressure on those around him.

alfie wrote:Anyway , I never care too much about random ODI results.  But this was a disappointing loss after most of the hard work had been done.

Still it wouldn't have been right to beat the Australians on Australia Day   

You know, I have been in Australia on Australia day twice and I still have no idea what the meaning of it is. Is it the day they were founded?

alfie wrote:

msp83 wrote:Well well well. England have managed to lose this game.
That Bopara dismissal was one of the most freakish I've seen, but he has played a massive part in dragging England to this utter mess. He shoul have rotated the strike much better, that start, 2 of 20 balls was absolutely unacceptable and horrendous.
Credit to Australia, they just didn't give up at any point.

Bopara did start very slowly.  But in the end they ran out of wickets , not balls.  Bit of lack of experience got a couple of wickets.  And some handy bowling and fielding from Australia , it must be said.

Both Root and Buttler felt the pressure of runs drying up as Bopara was plodding along for nothing. If you take a single and go to the other end, then if you have to wait for 5 balls to be back on strike only for the process to be repeated would affect the rhythm of the other batsman and the innings as such. Yes, singles would have done it, but a lot of those should have come from Bopara. This was not a track where driving the ball wasn't easy, there was no pace to work with to find innovative boundries either. As such, find gaps and getting 1s and 2s a lot more regulary than Bopara did was absolutely necessary.
And I don't think blaming the lower order for this mess is all that fair either.

alfie wrote:Anyway , I never care too much about random ODI results.   

Random?

there is a pattern...Champions Trophy final, the 3rd ODI where Faulkner pulled food from the mouth of Eng and then today......

England is mentally weak and needs to work on it

I'm with Nachos here I blame this solely at the feet of Bopara.

Placed uncessary pressure on other batsmen, ran out someone, then failed to finish it off himself.

One of the single worst innings in that situation I have seen from a batsman. Awful stuff from him

Sangakkara wrote:

... It's not one person's fault. This teams confidence is shot to pieces, and one win against a 2nd string outfit wasn't going to change that.

Sanga - good points (again).

Worth emphasing the importance of confidence. Watching from the stand in the closing overs Cook looked terrified whilst Lehmann was on the boundary edge full of beaming smiles. That attitude seemed to be shared by Clarke on the field. He may not have believed his team was always going to win but importantly he wasn't scared about them not doing so. That positive approach in turn went to the bowlers and fielders.

Not saying everything rested on that but it probably helped.

I mean random in the sense that individual ODI matches - not World Cup ones - mean little. And I , personally , do not care much who wins them.

I agree England have lost a few close ones recently. But then , so have India...

It is the nature of the game. But don't let me stop you amusing yourself with another cheap sneer.

Though Bopara's batting was horrendous, I won't blame him too much for the Bresnan run-out. It was a risky single, but by no means was an impossible one. Bresnan was too slow to get going with the run. If he had started quickly, he might have made it.

alfie wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Bopara had better win this from here, he has put a lot of pressure on the other batsmen...

Not fair to blame Bopara.  If a couple of other batsmen had stayed calm they'd have won this easily.

Actually I blame guildford for the repeated jinxes   

Did you like my reverse, triple-somersault with half pike Australia Day jinx, alfie?   

Ah well... only a few more meaningless T20s to go now.

alfie wrote:I mean random in the sense that individual ODI matches - not World Cup ones - mean little.  And I , personally , do not care much who wins them.

I agree England have lost a few close ones recently.  But then , so have India...

It is the nature of the game. But don't let me stop you amusing yourself with another cheap sneer.

OK I will let you dilute this into a "cheap sneer" ...instead of seriously looking at the repeat occurrences:

1) CT final
2) 3rd ODI
3) 5th ODI
4) Cook's comments swinging like a pendulum..wants to quit one day and lead anotehr day...shows the fragility of his mind
5) a number of test match sessions lost from remarkably superior positions
6) The temperamental breakdown of Kerrigan and Rankin
7) Trott

The first step towards fixing a problem is acknowledging the problem

Why not finish with a batting collapse.

4-1 does flatter Australia somewhat, couldve very easily been 3-2 the otherway but Australian cricket is on a high right now and England the opposite. Things tend to go your way under those conditions.

Dare say Cooks already packed up and ready to board the plane

Sangakkara has it in one . Confidence has a lot to do with this result. Relaxed play against under pressure stuff. Frankly it didn't surprise me even from 111/3 : a wicket or two was always going to get the nerves going.
Which is another reason I think just blaming Bopara is wrong. Yes he should have got moving earlier...but there was no real time pressure on , so a few quiet overs didn't matter that much. I do not seek to pin the blame on any individual ; as several players made errors of judgement. In the end , no one actually took charge and steered them home. Plus , of course , Australia bowled and fielded well - and had a huge and vital slice of luck at the right time as well.

Anyway from rock bottom there's only one way to go thankfully

KP_fan : for someone who purports to love the game , and occasionally displays some understanding of it , you don't half spout some rubbish.
Even in your third language   

Just enough time to cram in 3 T20s now.

alfie wrote:Sangakkara has it in one .  Confidence has a lot to do with this result.  Relaxed play against under pressure stuff.  Frankly it didn't surprise me even from 111/3 : a wicket or two was always going to get the nerves going.
Which is another reason I think just blaming Bopara is wrong. Yes he should have got moving earlier...but there was no real time pressure on , so a few quiet overs didn't matter that much. I do not seek to pin the blame on any individual ; as several players made errors of judgement.  In the end , no one actually took charge and steered them home.  Plus , of course , Australia bowled and fielded well - and had a huge and vital slice of luck at the right time as well.

You can afford quiet overs for sure, but he played out maidens ffs. He didn't rotate the strike at all, he pretty much by himself got that run rate to a run a ball and placed all the pressure on the others to score runs from the limited balls they got.

That'd have been alright if he'd have seen it through himself. But he didn't.

Hope that was his last innings in an England shirt. Useless

alfie wrote:KP_fan : for someone who purports to love the game , and occasionally displays some understanding of it , you don't half spout some rubbish.
Even in your third language   

OK...if these digressions give you relief.....and takes your mind off the problems...then keep doing more of it.

someone would have to take these problems head-on to pull Enf out of this mental wreck they are in

You were so right about the low score prediction, KP_f. Great call!

For the record, I like Bopara and he has been invaluable on many occasions but in this case, he really blew it. He is a senior and very experienced player but totally mismanaged the situation today. It was his negativity that allowed the Aussies to put some pressure on England. Not rotating the strike and not scoring forced others around him to try and take risks before the situation got out of hand.

I do not like blaming individuals but today Bopara is to blame for the situation England found themselves in.

Bopara invariably conspires to get out after having done the hard work, and sets the tone for failure of those behind him. It happens time and time again. He simply doesn't have the mental fortitude to finish things off. You always know when there's 15 odd runs to win because Bopara is out. You can set your watch by it.

Cook must also go as captain. He's ineffectual and can't make good decisions under pressure. He's too "nice". Lacks the killer instinct of a winner.

England would magnify their problems greatly if they try to dismiss this close loss.... and the one before the ones  that as random freak incidents.

Bopara for example is not the cause but a symptom:

--Match situation....high pressure...tight and close.
--he freezes.....can't play his strokes.....not because he doesn't have the ability...but because temperamentally weak...can't get the strokes under pressure.
--and then his dismissal wasn't freak or unlucky......but a result of pressure.....look at the 10 strokes he played  before that one...all dabs to 3rd man...as was the dismissal ...attempted dab, false stroke......
what happened to using full face of the bat and driving down the V region....or stepping back and hitting over cover....or stepping in and scooping over the fine leg ??
Just froze and lost all strokes and kept dabbing to 3rd man

--remember as he got close....he threw it away tamely in CT final also ?

--and look at Broad's dismissal....pressure of WK up got to him...he was more worried about being stumped and didn't move his feet and was bowled off a length ball...that came in to him that he could have covered the movement for.... had he taken a big stride forward...which he didn't for the fear of being caught out of his crease

--Not being able to perform to potential  naturally under pressure...is a big problem
70% of the sport at that level is bearing and working throuhg these layers of pressure

Now that Alastair Cook has opted out of the West Indies ODIs, Elgnand's top order will see further changes. I hope they won't bring Root up the order. He may have opened in county cricket, but the lad is best placed for a middle order role and he showed it again today. It has to be KP for Cook at the top.

Personally for the West Indies ODI's now Cook is out I'd go with this;

Hales/Luke Wright
Bell
KP
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Bresnan
Broad
Jordan
Tredwell

I'd like to see Hales or Luke Wright given a go (both playing very well in the Big Bash atm, yes I know it's T20 but I think both could do well in ODI's). KP to come in at 3, allowing Stokes to move down to 6 and Root/Morgan staying in the same position.

I'd keep the bowling attack the same, unless injuries dictate