Royal Rumble Discussion Thread

[Crimey]

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A place for everybody to vent.

What a disappointment that was. The biggest show of defiance I have ever witnessed from a WWE crowd, this wasn't Raw or a partisan crowd after Wrestlemania or in England or Chicago, this was Royal Rumble the second biggest night in the WWE programming schedule, the main event and it flopped, not just with "smarks" or on the internet, it flopped in the arena with the fans. The Orton-Cena match was just the start.

Batista was supposed to be the huge face returnee, a massively popular guy, winning the Rumble in his first match back and the crowd hated it. Roman Reigns who has only ever been a heel member of a three-man group was getting bigger cheers than Batista got on his return after four years out. WWE have essentially listened to WWE fans and told them they don't care. How can they possibly believe that this was the best way to go? Imagine the vitriol if Orton-Batista is the main event of Wrestlemania, they appear to be begging the WWE fans to riot.

I could accept Daniel Bryan not appearing in the Rumble, I could even accept Batista winning the Royal Rumble, what I can't accept is WWE purposely, not for the first time, attempting to bury Daniel Bryan. If you tried to explain the situation to somebody who wasn't a fan of wrestling, that there was a guy so popular he was being chanted for in random matches, or whenever he was on screen but WWE were trying to hold him back, they would be baffled. If you were watching a film in which the villain was constantly putting down one guy, holding him back and the hero didn't just not get his comeuppance but was dropped 2/3 of the way through the film, you'd be incredibly confused. They allowed him to lose in the opening match and gave no resolution to that, they have allowed Triple H (the legitimate booker of the program), a semi-retired wrestler to put him down repeatedly without any sign of resolution. They have hinted at Daniel Bryan rising up and repeatedly put him down and WWE fans have responded by booing the world title match, booing the Royal Rumble. I feel sorry for the wrestlers towards the end of the Rumble who had their hard work ruined by WWE's stupidity, by WWE's horrendous booking.

There were a few highlights:

Bryan-Wyatt was a fantastic match, and Wyatt winning would have been good had Daniel Bryan at least entered the Rumble, instead it's actually a burial.
Brock destroying Big Show was fantastic. The F5 looked awesome.
Reigns showing in the Rumble as well as The Shield break up.
The crowd dissenting.

The worst parts:

The burial of Daniel Bryan
Batista winning the Royal Rumble
The amount of crap people in the Rumble including Kevin Nash (whose last return also flopped), El Torito, R-Truth, Ryback...I can accept JBL because he's excellent.
The Orton-Cena match apart from the crowd's reaction or non-reaction to it.

This shouldn't be a surprise, it happened in 2011 with Punk and it has happened in 2013/14 with Daniel Bryan. WWE in the modern age is bitter and arrogant and refuses to listen to its fan base or even logic. They pick their guys, they pick their feuds and they stick to it.

I know the justification will be that this is no different from The Rock, that Batista is a movie star and a big name in wrestling who gives legitimacy to the WWE and means the biggest matches can feature. Except this is totally different, The Rock was hugely popular (at least at first), he's one of, if not the biggest action movie star in the world, he's one of the most recognisable faces in world media, movies are sold using his name and he was at the top of WWE in their most successful period getting huge crowd reactions. Batista can barely be classed as a movie star having had small to medium roles in mediocre movies, he's never been used to sell a movie, Guardians of the Galaxy for example is not Batista being a big star he's part of an ensemble cast in which he is one of the least known guys and when Batista was a wrestler he was never as over as WWE wanted him to be.

But WWE never cease to amaze me in their defiance to storyline writing and the fans reaction. Randy Orton has consistently flopped as a main eventer, when he is at the top, people switch off, people don't hate him as a heel, they just don't care about him full stop. X-Pac heat should be renamed Orton heat. I genuinely thought WWE were going to de-push Orton, that he had his last chance at being the top guy and he blew it again. That it would be the last time Orton was pushed to the top. Yet tonight has proved me wrong again, not only has he retained the title, but he looks set to have a world title feud, presumably the main event against Batista who was booed out of the building against a heel who had been in WWE just over a year.

I am likely to watch Raw only in the hope that the WWE fans continue to show their defiance towards WWE and boo Batista and continue to back Daniel Bryan. WWE are hoping that WWE fans will lose hope that Daniel Bryan will ever make it to the top but they have to stay strong and continue to show their support.

I will conclude by saying I am with crippledtart now, WWE never wanted to really push CM Punk in 2011 and they don't really want to push Bryan now.

[Crimey]

I am just totally sick of Orton and have been for at least 3 years but probably longer. I don't enjoy watching him wrestle, I don't enjoy his promos and the storylines he is in very rarely capture my imagination. He is incredibly slow to the extent of tedium. I would definitely pick Cena or even Batista over Orton. I can't express highly enough how overrated I think he is.

[Kay Fabe]

Batista over Orton? More power to you bud but that just sounds like saying something ridiculous to emphasis your point, Batista is absolutely hopeless, watching him trying to hit a spine buster last night was painful, his celebration was the most robotic celebration since Peter Crouch, least Crouch was intentional

[CenaNuff]

Batista's spear on Reigns was pathetic. I actually cringed watching it.

[Dr Gregory House MD]

Now I've had time to assess everything and it isn't 4am, I can probably give a slightly more even handed view of what I watched last night

I missed the beginning of the pre-show match when I was away getting chips (they were out of pizza), but what I saw I thought was enjoyable, Goldust and Cody looked very good and the NAO played there part as well, even though I've never rated them very highly, dissapointed to see them pick up the win, I can understand it but I think the Rhodes have been a real shot in the arm for the tag division, and I think they'd be more worth in their team than in the singles feud, still decent match from what I saw

Bryan vs Wyatt was fantastic, probably the best match I've seen so far this year across any company, it was exciting and dramatic, Bryan really got the best out of Wyatt, who was the most nimble and explosive I've seen him, Wyatt's character work was also exceptional as usual, he really nails all the little details and it makes him fascinating to watch, the sister Abigail into the barrier was awesome, brilliant showing both men.

I had predicted Lesnar vs Show as my dark horse for MOTN, they had great chemistry in 02/03, and with Show being fitter/a better worker in '14, I thought this could be a good showing, god was I wrong, I'm surprised some people on here enjoyed that shambles, deathly dull and I think, if anything, it made Lesnar look weaker than he had going in, fair enough he destroyed the Big Show but he did it in such a cheap heel way that it took any value for me in what he was trying to achieve, 3 weeks of being Show's bitch then he needs to blindside him to get the win, words can't explain who disappointed I was, especially after looking forward to the match, the F-5 was undeniably impressive but to me Lesnar would have looked 10x better if he had scored a competitive but ultimately dominant win over Show, he could even have battered him with the chair afterwards if WWE had wanted to get over his viciousness, these two are much better than this, my low point of the night.

Orton vs Cena, well it wasn't a bad match, hell it was probably even quite a good match, these two often do have a good-great matches, but the match was hijacked by the crowd, I could be critical of them, I probably should be critical of them, but it would be hypocritical as I myself cannot get emotionally invested in a Cena v Orton match, I've had enough of them, I had enough of them in their 10 PPV matches between 07 and 09, including a marathon 5 PPV run, I've seen them in every possible situation I can imagine and I've had my fill, this is of course a purely subjective point of view and has no bearing on whether I thought the match was good (I did) or if I thought the crowd was damaging to the match (I did), but like I said, it's hard to judge people who have paid good money for not engaging with the match, when I myself couldn't be bothered. The Wyatt finish was interesting though, a Cena feud could be the making or breaking of them so it'll be fascinating to see what happens.

Onto the Rumble itself, firstly I was unable to make it two rumble sweepstake wins in a row, as my pick no3 turned out to be sandow , still I thought this was an enjoyable rumble, nothing about it was truly terrible while nothing stood out as particularly classic perhaps bar Reigns performance, I have to say I was disappointed by Punk, perhaps unfairly as he put in a monumental shift but he was meant to be the ironman survivor, and unlike Flair, HBK, Benoit, I don't think he held the thread of the match very well, there was no jeopardy about his situation, he was merely there and if I'm honest I often forgot he was there as he sold in the corner, as El Tirito was such a big talking point I'll briefly mention him, didn't mind it, was quite funny, no harm done unless your name is Fandango, I was of course disappointed by Batista's win, there was a certain air of inevitability about it but I couldn't help getting my hopes up for some night in bearded armour

Which brings me on to the big talking point, Bryan and the crowd, I have to say I was gutted he didn't even enter the rumble, a) because I enjoy seeing him and b) with every passing moment it seems more avenues to a top spot on the mania card, and by virtue proof that WWE has decided to accept him as a main eventer in an elite group only the 3 full timers of Cena, Punk and Orton are allowed into, are closing on him. Unless WWE decide to learn from the crowds reaction last night, which I think was equal parts smark agenda and genuine disappointment, and hotshot Bryan into something more befitting of his popularity (and talent but when has that ever mattered) his route seems to be an upper midcard match against someone like Sheamus at best.

Finally, my two cents on Orton is that he is a genuine talent, who is performing extremely well despite the fact he will never get a chance to properly get over as a heel with the crowd as he continues to play HHH's whiney lapdog, just don't feud him with Cena please, pretty please xx

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

As somewhat of an outsider, having read that BBC article, is if not obvious this Bryan thing is a work?

I mean why else would he tweet what he said, and then have Foley do an interview about it

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

(Feel free to correct me, ain't watched WWE in a year or so, but this looks so much like a work to me)

[Crimey]

Foley is out of contract in a month and isn't really a WWE talent so is free to say what he likes and his reaction was clearly not a work considering it involved swearing and questioning booking decisions. I think Bryan's tweets were carefully worded so as to not appear out of character but also to appease fans.

I think those that think this is a work are giving WWE too much credit, they could not have predicted how the crowd would have turned on the night and there would be some mention of the reaction and of Bryan's lack of involvement from WWE. Works aren't not mentioned.

[Guest]

As somewhat of an outsider, having read that BBC article, is if not obvious this Bryan thing is a work?

I mean why else would he tweet what he said, and then have Foley do an interview about it

of course its a work

I cant believe that people are actually suggesting that wwe are burying Bryan. if they were burying him they would have embarassed him in the rumble

its part of a story and it is leading somewhere. people are just too impatient

[CenaNuff]

As somewhat of an outsider, having read that BBC article, is if not obvious this Bryan thing is a work?

I mean why else would he tweet what he said, and then have Foley do an interview about it

of course its a work

I cant believe that people are actually suggesting that wwe are burying Bryan. if they were burying him they would have embarassed him in the rumble

its part of a story and it is leading somewhere. people are just too impatient

  Yes people are too impatient, I mean they have only been waiting 2 years for Bryan to get the push he deserves. Calm down everyone.

[Guest]

but he is getting a push. hes involved in one of the hottest angles at the minute with the authority. especially judging by how Raw is starting off

people just getting their panties in a bunch because he hasnt got the title round his waist

[Crimey]

Rubbish, WWE aren't that subtle. If he wasn't in the Rumble because in kayfabe he was being held back that would have at least been mentioned or shown on screen. WWE do not want Daniel Bryan as their main star and a bitter that the fans are forcing them to make him that.

You can't really trust Raw as an indication of Rumble plans now (I haven't seen it yet) because plans will have certainly changed after the Rumble.

[Brilliant_yep]

Isn't Foley himself an example of the fans telling WWE exactly who they want as their main eventers?
I can't really remember the details of his push but I know he was hot with the fans and certainly wasn't the look Vince creams over.
So it comes as no surprise that Mick is backing Bryan,and good on him for doing so.

[nasisillmatic]

If I'd have been in that audience on Sunday I'd have rioted at the end. After seeing it last night, I felt like the WWE took the pi$$ out of every fan watching.

[Hero]

So Daniel Bryan tweets about the Machine holding down, it makes global mainstream news and he isn't punished for it but instead he gets to be involved in an angle in which for once Trips is mocked?

And it's not a work?

WWE have you all hook, line and sinker. They've made a Stone Cold for the modern generation, that the fans root for as they empathise and relate to his struggles and they've done it so well that even the smarks have bought it. Everyone's up in arms, 'I'll not buy another PPV, I'm rioting over the burying Trips is doing', yet these same people are then tweeting, watching more passionately and once again for the first time in a long time its reaching a wider audience, its catchment is spreading.
WWE know the moment the button is pressed on Bryan then that uproar, that level of passion, that social media outporing and coverage is gone and they will continue to tease and tempt with a end goal as long as they can to build it further.

The longer the waiting the sweeter the kiss.

[Kay Fabe]

I think those that think this is a work are giving WWE too much credit, they could not have predicted how the crowd would have turned on the night and there would be some mention of the reaction and of Bryan's lack of involvement from WWE. Works aren't not mentioned.

Really? You don't think that guys who live and breath the business and guys who'll have been to more live events in 1 week than most of us will go to in our lifetime will not have a notion of how the crowds would react? I knew any Batista win would go down like lead balloon, factor that win over Punk/Bryan not winning and you have a recipe for disaster (if you genuinely want cheers)...now if I knew that then no-one will convince me guys like HHH wont have knew that, of course they would have.

Who has the title can be irrelevant, for the best part of a decade thr WWE didn't have a main event face fans liked apart from Shawn Michaels who it was well highlighted wouldn't likely be World Champion again, now the WWE have created two guys, two top faces who the crowd have gone absolutely nuts for, people go to cheer for Daniel Bryan and CM Punk, i don't think it's a coincidence this has materialised since HHH took over, I think he has been a breath of fresh air to the company since he fully took up his new role both in front of the camera and behind the scenes.

Bryan like Punk has made it because they have got themselves over because they are both extremely talented however the amount of TV time both get are major factors in that popularity too, the WWE have definitely given them the ball, it might not be the obvious way of doing things that we're programmed to understand and identify with, but at the moment and for the best part of the last 6 months there isn't 2 more over guys in Wresrling than CM Punk and Daniel Bryan.

[hodge]

As more goes by the more I am convinced that Bryan and Punk will be teaming together at WM against The Authority being Triple H and a partner, whether they are Kane, a heel Sheamus aligning with them, a returning HBK or whoever. If Bryan isn't directed towards The Authority at WM then I can't see where else he's going.

[Kay Fabe]

I'll be amazed if they went with a tag match like that at WrestleMania, Kane wont be in a match with either IMO...he's just a story ark in all of this, he's nowhere near being involved in the Mania pay-off, remember when Shawn Michaels had to beat Koslov to get his match at WrestleMania against Undertaker? Koslov became an important ark for a few weeks in that storyline, same here with Kane.

[hodge]

Yeah I'd think Sheamus would be the most likely partner for Triple H as I can see him turning heel. But I can't see Bryan being moved on from The Authority before WM and I can't see 2 singles matches about The Authority.

Bryan and Punk teaming together would also be huge and also allow both of them to get one over on Triple H at the same time.

[Kay Fabe]

Can't fault your logic but I just can't see them wasting the momentum both have got in a tag match lime that.

From a drawing point of view I don't think Punk & Bryan vs HHH and A.N.Other will draw more tha Punk vs HHH or Bryan vs HHH but on the other hand I don't think theres a great emphasis on certain matches drawing at WM now as the event basically sells itself.

[hodge]

Fair point and having them in separate matches provides them with that extra match for the card. It's just finding an opponent for the other one. The only exception I'd guess would be if it was HBK returning as in that situation a reunited DX Vs Punk & Bryan would be worth it being a tag match, but think the chances of that are about 5% at most.

Outside shot would be one of them wins the title at EC.

Daniel Bryan/CM Punk Vs Batista would be interesting, Batista could so easily be turned heel, the way he pointed to a sign on his way down the ramp that said #Boretista.

You could even have Orton chucked in for his rematch. Randy Orton Vs Daniel Bryan/CM Punk Vs Batista, takes away from the rumble winner getting a 1 vs 1 shot but if Batista turned heel he'd probably align with The Authority so could be passed off as 'best for business' that there are Batista and Orton against 1 non Authority aligned personel

[Kay Fabe]

Hey, what do I know, I said Batista wouldn't win the Rumble, its clear whatever their plans are, I have no idea whats gonna happen

[theundisputedY2D2]

Hey, what do I know, I said Batista wouldn't win the Rumble, its clear whatever their plans are, I have no idea whats gonna happen

Vince?

Vince is that you?!

[Kay Fabe]

Hey, what do I know, I said Batista wouldn't win the Rumble, its clear whatever their plans are, I have no idea whats gonna happen

Vince?

Vince is that you?!

Dammit

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