Mountains of world rugby

Metaphors for difficult tasks are often constructed around the ascent of a mountain.
 
"Scotland have a huge mountain to climb here" for example.
 
On world rugby terms, the rugby World Cup might be likened to Everest. The highest peak in the world (popularly) and most obvious choice. (And notably first scaled by a kiwi, captain David Kirk or Edmund Hillary - take your pick). Some might even suggest the odd team who have reached the summit may have had a certain degree of assistance from the odd Sherpa or two.
 
Likewise, the Southern Hemisphere's Rugby Championship might be equated to K2. Not as popular a conquest, only open to the worlds elite mountaineers. Technically not as altitudinous at its peak, although a more difficult ascent than Everest.
 
The World Cup might also be equated with Everest in that whilst the highest peak, a large portion of the mountains height is beneath water and hence nobody actually scales its full height - an analogy for the pool stages - most summit contenders bypass the pool without any thought or much effort expended.
 
So, in mountain metaphor terms, which peak might the six nations equate to?

This is the kind of creative writing I enjoy.  A bit of powerful imagery combined with a historical nod.  As I reread your post I can even see the twinkle in your eye (since you have been accused by others of being one-eyed, I decided to use the singular tense, no offence intended).    

To arms:  
It is hard to associate the Six Nations, the grandest of sporting tournaments, with any singular mountain or range.  So much of this wonderful competition actually consists of both Peaks and Valleys.  It is transcendent.  It is not just another Rugby tournament.

If to be symbolised by a mountain, the only point I should make is it would be a mountain which can be climbed individually, without requiring the knowledge, skill, and raw physical aid of other peoples, be they from Nepal.........or the Pacific Islands, just for instance..............

Just sayin'

doctor_grey wrote:This is the kind of creative writing I enjoy.  A bit of powerful imagery combined with a historical nod.  As I reread your post I can even see the twinkle in your eye (since you have been accused by others of being one-eyed, I decided to use the singular tense, no offence intended).    

To arms:  
It is hard to associate the Six Nations, the grandest of sporting tournaments, with any singular mountain or range.  So much of this wonderful competition actually consists of both Peaks and Valleys.  It is transcendent.  It is not just another Rugby tournament.

If to be symbolised by a mountain, the only point I should make is it would be a mountain which can not be climbed individually, but requires the knowledge, skill, and raw physical aid of other peoples, be they from Nepal.........or the Pacific Islands, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia or Argentina, just for instance..............

Just sayin'

Fixed that for you, twinkle, twinkle....

Well written GE, and well thought out.   

Ellis Park is like Everest, Capetown is like base camp.

doctor_grey wrote:This is the kind of creative writing I enjoy.  A bit of powerful imagery combined with a historical nod.  As I reread your post I can even see the twinkle in your eye (since you have been accused by others of being one-eyed, I decided to use the singular tense, no offence intended).    

To arms:  
It is hard to associate the Six Nations, the grandest of sporting tournaments, with any singular mountain or range.  So much of this wonderful competition actually consists of both Peaks and Valleys.  It is transcendent.  It is not just another Rugby tournament.

If to be symbolised by a mountain, the only point I should make is it would be a mountain which can be climbed individually, without requiring the knowledge, skill, and raw physical aid of other peoples, be they from Nepal.........or the Pacific Islands, just for instance..............

Just sayin'

  Excellent write up on THE grandest of all tournaments beyond a doubt. THE rugby tournament.

A puzzling mountain that baffles anyone outside the NH, one which allows the ignorant to plummet to the ground. A mountain to be avoided by the ignorant.

The heights of greatness are often baffling to mere mortals.
Descended from the very heights of Olympus, it is, as I wrote, transcendent. If you come and make an offering, we might accept you into the fold. Especially if you bring us your women.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:This is the kind of creative writing I enjoy.  A bit of powerful imagery combined with a historical nod.  As I reread your post I can even see the twinkle in your eye (since you have been accused by others of being one-eyed, I decided to use the singular tense, no offence intended).    

To arms:  
It is hard to associate the Six Nations, the grandest of sporting tournaments, with any singular mountain or range.  So much of this wonderful competition actually consists of both Peaks and Valleys.  It is transcendent.  It is not just another Rugby tournament.

If to be symbolised by a mountain, the only point I should make is it would be a mountain which can be climbed individually, without requiring the knowledge, skill, and raw physical aid of other peoples, be they from Nepal.........or the Pacific Islands, just for instance..............

Just sayin'

  Excellent write up on THE grandest of all tournaments beyond a doubt.  THE rugby tournament.

A puzzling mountain that baffles anyone outside the NH, one which allows the ignorant to plummet to the ground. A mountain to be avoided by the ignorant.

Snowden then.

The inmates have finally been released for the circus, I see Welcome all ye - please sit in the cages provided - gruel (with or without floating Frank Warren) will be served once a week.

Erebor, its been held by a Dragon for far too long.

I think reaching the summit of Everest is only a real achievement if you've had to travel to get there. If you started from basecamp (with all its inherent advantages) then you can't shout too much about it. Even if you've done it twice.

I'd say the 6N is a bit like Mount Snowdon - It's a big thing in Wales, a bit too much hassle for the Scots and Irish to do regularly and there's always load of English fatties blocking the way to the top.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Erebor, its been held by a Dragon for far too long.

That merciless dragon that hates dwarves?????????????? "I am going to eat you, and chew you, and crunch your bones, and lick my lips and................ eh up! - no I ain't, now that I have yiz all boxed into a corner I think I'll go off and kill some lake people instead - nicer crunch "

Anyway its good for you lot to laugh now but wait till your team gets stuck halfway up a mountain with the Argentinian team ...

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Anyway its good for you lot to laugh now but wait till your team gets stuck halfway up a mountain with the Argentinian team ...

.........and a nice chianti........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVlkZVAw8Gc

rodders wrote:I'd say the 6N is a bit like Mount Snowdon - It's a big thing in Wales But not actually that big for a mountain, a bit too much hassle for the Scots and Irish to do regularly and there's always load of English fatties blocking the way to the top.

Small tweak there..

lostinwales wrote:

rodders wrote:I'd say the 6N is a bit like Mount Snowdon - It's a big thing in Wales But not actually that big for a mountain, a bit too much hassle for the Scots and Irish to do regularly and there's always load of English fatties blocking the way to the top.

Small tweak there..

Yeah true, so it should be easy for the French but they don't often turn up.

If the RWC is Everest is that because it's been famously climbed by a New Zealander but only with the help of more skilled foreigners on the team?

The 6N is like the Matterhorn......  rising - to a point... but no further.

I would say the RC is not K2 given its uniformly acknowledge to be more difficult to conquer then Everest.

KO rugby is always always tougher then league system rugby. It builds a now or never mindset with no ability to correct yourself the week after. You can't rely on others slipping up... you must win every game, defeat every challenge.

In 2004. SA won only 2 out of 4 matches in the 3N but still managed to take the title due to bonus points. Every team (AUS, NZ and SA) won both their home games but no one took an away scalp.

Its why SR, the Currie Cup, the AP, Top14, Rabo etc all have playoffs/KO stages at the end and why the best teams don't necessarily come 1st in the ladder.

I would say the RC is the same as a 6N myself a few notches down from the himalayas. Matches are at a higher level then the 6N but the 6N is more difficult due to the fixtures.
In the RC you get both home and away shots at each team... to win a 6N title you may have your 2 crunch games away from home (i.e. Wales is away to Ireland and England this year)... its much more difficult to win they say if they had 4 games vs. the above, 2 bankers at home and 2 tricky away fixtures.

The six nations is like the north face of the Eiger and climbing it in winter a bit like a grand slam. Until recent times very few men had scaled it. Yet as European mountains go I dont think any other mountain climb has captivated the publics attention or attracted as much attention in the press and in terms of documentaries and movies. Just like the six nations it really has the ability to draw people in and excite year in and year out even if the mountain itself isnt particularly high in world terms.

No other mountain climb in europe has the same mystique, tradition and trepidation for its climbers than Norwand and by that token therefore, it is the closest thing in European mountaineering to the 6N.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eiger

The RWC doesn't have the favour of home advantage for most of the teams teams participating.

In 91, 99, 03, & 07 the winning teams have won against the odds... in 91 and 03 furthermore with the disadvantage of playing the final in the oppositions backyard.

6N is not to be sniffed at.

The RC winners by year would look a lot different if you cut the fixtures by half and you only had 1 match vs. a specific team per year.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Metaphors for difficult tasks are often constructed around the ascent of a mountain.
 
"Scotland have a huge mountain to climb here" for example.
 
On world rugby terms, the rugby World Cup might be likened to Everest. The highest peak in the world (popularly) and most obvious choice. (And notably first scaled by a kiwi, captain David Kirk or Edmund Hillary - take your pick).

sorry that one thing bugs, Hillary wasn't the first to scale Everest, I mean ok officially he is, but the facts point towards George Lee Mallory and Andrew Irvine (possibly, we don't know his fate) were the first to scale Everest.

Last years 6 nations was like Garth Hill.
The English to turned it into a mountain and give a happy ending to the Welsh.

welshy824 (new) wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Metaphors for difficult tasks are often constructed around the ascent of a mountain.
 
"Scotland have a huge mountain to climb here" for example.
 
On world rugby terms, the rugby World Cup might be likened to Everest. The highest peak in the world (popularly) and most obvious choice. (And notably first scaled by a kiwi, captain David Kirk or Edmund Hillary - take your pick).

sorry that one thing bugs, Hillary wasn't the first to scale Everest, I mean ok officially he is, but the facts point towards George Lee Mallory and Andrew Irvine (possibly, we don't know his fate) were the first to scale Everest.

 
There were many previous attempts Welshy, but until actual evidence proves otherwise, Hillary is the man. It's not "facts that point towards" a prior ascent, but some localised collective longing for a revisionist history. As the Dalai Lama said to me once "Ascending the mountain is only part of the task."

welshy824 (new) wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Metaphors for difficult tasks are often constructed around the ascent of a mountain.
 
"Scotland have a huge mountain to climb here" for example.
 
On world rugby terms, the rugby World Cup might be likened to Everest. The highest peak in the world (popularly) and most obvious choice. (And notably first scaled by a kiwi, captain David Kirk or Edmund Hillary - take your pick).

sorry that one thing bugs, Hillary wasn't the first to scale Everest, I mean ok officially he is, but the facts point towards George Lee Mallory and Andrew Irvine (possibly, we don't know his fate) were the first to scale Everest.

And presumably numerous Nepalese people

welshy824 (new) wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Metaphors for difficult tasks are often constructed around the ascent of a mountain.
 
"Scotland have a huge mountain to climb here" for example.
 
On world rugby terms, the rugby World Cup might be likened to Everest. The highest peak in the world (popularly) and most obvious choice. (And notably first scaled by a kiwi, captain David Kirk or Edmund Hillary - take your pick).

sorry that one thing bugs, Hillary wasn't the first to scale Everest, I mean ok officially he is, but the facts point towards George Lee Mallory and Andrew Irvine (possibly, we don't know his fate) were the first to scale Everest.

It depends really. Edmund Hillary was part of the British Expedition party and wrote he thought of himself as a brit at the time. Kiwi yes but what flag did he raise at the top?

Its like asking who discovered America in the 1492.. the Spanish or the Italians? Spanish vovage led by an Italian.

Yep, Hillary always considered himself first and foremost British (just like GE does).

Whether someone not born in Britain is British or not rests solely on whether they are sucessful or not. Hillary reached the top therefore sorry Kiwis he is British.

fa0019 wrote:

It depends really. Edmund Hillary was part of the British Expedition party and wrote he thought of himself as a brit at the time. Kiwi yes but what flag did he raise at the top?

Its like asking who discovered America in the 1492.. the Spanish or the Italians? Spanish vovage led by an Italian.

Bloody poachers!

GunsGerms wrote:Whether someone not born in Britain is British or not rests solely on whether they are sucessful or not. Hillary reached the top therefore sorry Kiwis he is British.

You guys are worse than the Aussies with Phar Lapp and Crowded House! Get your own famous people! Next you'll be telling me Ernest Rutherford was British.

6N is like Coopers Hill, Steeped in tradition. It is traditionally by and for the locals, but now people from all over the world take part More down than up, more enthusiasm than finesse. The locals think it's fabulous, outsiders think it's good to watch, a bit of a laugh.
Hard to predict a winner.

I love it, can't wait for saturday.

I'll say Kilimanjaro.

Its one of the seven summits and so is one to cross off for all budding mountaineers.

However in reality it is a step down from Everest and K2 in terms of difficulty and the level of skill and preparation needed to get to the top. Many people who conquer Kili with ease really struggle to step up to the next level.

That's not to say its easy though, not everyone who begins will scale it will be able to do so, maybe blaming not enough training time as a team or injury/ (altitude) sickness. Despite at times being a bit of a monotonous trudge, the view from the top is quite something and knowing you are on top of an entire continent is pretty special.

It is also geologically older than the relatively young Himalayas and as such holds a special place in the hearts of many.

For those aspiring buddhists amongst us, there is a parable which says:

Before a person studies Zen, mountains are mountains, whilst following the path to the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains.

I suspect this too may be metaphorical for a rugby competition.

GunsGerms wrote:Whether someone not born in Britain is British or not rests solely on whether they are sucessful or not. Hillary reached the top therefore sorry Kiwis he is British.

He was born in Britain but he considered himself British. I guess somebody should have told him that wasn't allowed.

In terms of dragging up vague ancestry to claim someone for their own, well I think the Irish win on that one

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Whether someone not born in Britain is British or not rests solely on whether they are sucessful or not. Hillary reached the top therefore sorry Kiwis he is British.

He was born in Britain but he considered himself British. I guess somebody should have told him that wasn't allowed.

In terms of dragging up vague ancestry to claim someone for their own, well I think the Irish win on that one

???

goneagain wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Whether someone not born in Britain is British or not rests solely on whether they are sucessful or not. Hillary reached the top therefore sorry Kiwis he is British.

He was born in Britain but he considered himself British. I guess somebody should have told him that wasn't allowed.

In terms of dragging up vague ancestry to claim someone for their own, well I think the Irish win on that one

???

When I wrote 'was' I meant 'wasn't'. Obviously

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Whether someone not born in Britain is British or not rests solely on whether they are sucessful or not. Hillary reached the top therefore sorry Kiwis he is British.

He was born in Britain but he considered himself British. I guess somebody should have told him that wasn't allowed.

In terms of dragging up vague ancestry to claim someone for their own, well I think the Irish win on that one

 
Hillary was born in NZ, educated in NZ, learned his mountaineering in NZ, lived in NZ until two years prior to the first ascent of Everest, return to NZ afterwards, married a Kiwi, became the leader of the NZ antartic mission, founded Scott base for NZ, became NZ's ambassador to Nepal. The successful ascent nationality is marked as British/NZ/Nepal.  He couldn't be more Kiwi if he was made of fencing wire and gumboots.
 
In terms of ancestory, Hillary's grandmother was Irish, so perhaps the Irish can claim him too?

He was a British subject though surely?

Well that's ok then. It's no real suprise he thought of him self as British (well of the British Empire) It wasn't until the late '47 that NZ
adopted the Statute of Westminster Adoption Act.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Whether someone not born in Britain is British or not rests solely on whether they are sucessful or not. Hillary reached the top therefore sorry Kiwis he is British.

You guys are worse than the Aussies with Phar Lapp and Crowded House! Get your own famous people! Next you'll be telling me Ernest Rutherford was British.

Well the man himself says he thought of himself as British... and in those days most kiwis of British heritage also did, its not my opinion its Hillary's himself (was given his autobiography years back).

Crikey in 50 years time you guys will be telling us Richie McCaw was British!

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Whether someone not born in Britain is British or not rests solely on whether they are sucessful or not. Hillary reached the top therefore sorry Kiwis he is British.

He was born in Britain but he considered himself British. I guess somebody should have told him that wasn't allowed.

In terms of dragging up vague ancestry to claim someone for their own, well I think the Irish win on that one

Hillary was born in NZ, educated in NZ, learned his mountaineering in NZ, lived in NZ until two years prior to the first ascent of Everest, return to NZ afterwards, married a Kiwi, became NZ's ambassador to Nepal. The successful ascent nationality is marked as British/NZ/Nepal.  

In terms of ancestory, Hillary's grandmother was Irish, so perhaps the Irish can claim him too?

That's all very well. He still considered himself British first and NZ second.

Yes, maybe the Irish could.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Whether someone not born in Britain is British or not rests solely on whether they are sucessful or not. Hillary reached the top therefore sorry Kiwis he is British.

You guys are worse than the Aussies with Phar Lapp and Crowded House! Get your own famous people! Next you'll be telling me Ernest Rutherford was British.

Who are you calling you guys?

Anyway guys, this is supposed to be the zen reflecting pool of threads, an oasis of calm tranquility and general rugby brotherhood during the arduous and nationally divisive time of the six nations! let's not get off on the wrong foot with a bellyache about Britain claiming Edmund Hillary. NZ hold the Hillary shield at the moment, so let's let that be decided on the field of play in June.
 
It's nothing but a compliment that the British are so enamoured with Hillary's effort that they want to claim him as their own. I'm sure the man himself would've shrugged the whole thing off, having the natural good self effacing mannerism of any world beating Kiwi (I'm sure he didn't perform a swan dive at the summit, for instance). Reminds me of McCaw in that way.

Nobody is trying to claim Hillary. He claimed he was British himself

GunsGerms wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Whether someone not born in Britain is British or not rests solely on whether they are sucessful or not. Hillary reached the top therefore sorry Kiwis he is British.

You guys are worse than the Aussies with Phar Lapp and Crowded House! Get your own famous people! Next you'll be telling me Ernest Rutherford was British.

Who are you calling you guys?

I imagine the Irish are quite well versed in these debates anyhow... I imagine few Irishmen would claim the Duke of Wellington to be Irish for instance. Lots of famous anglo-irish people in history.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Whether someone not born in Britain is British or not rests solely on whether they are sucessful or not. Hillary reached the top therefore sorry Kiwis he is British.

He was born in Britain but he considered himself British. I guess somebody should have told him that wasn't allowed.

In terms of dragging up vague ancestry to claim someone for their own, well I think the Irish win on that one

 
Hillary was born in NZ, educated in NZ, learned his mountaineering in NZ, lived in NZ until two years prior to the first ascent of Everest, return to NZ afterwards, married a Kiwi, became the leader of the NZ antartic mission, founded Scott base for NZ, became NZ's ambassador to Nepal. The successful ascent nationality is marked as British/NZ/Nepal.  He couldn't be more Kiwi if he was made of fencing wire and gumboots.
 
In terms of ancestory, Hillary's grandmother was Irish, so perhaps the Irish can claim him too?

Thats all very well but he made it to the top of everest so he was British. If he failed yes he would have been a Kiwi.

Cyril wrote:Nobody is trying to claim Hillary. He claimed he was British himself

As I too claim publically I am British Cyril (travel and tax reasons). Although by this time next year, I shall be a Swiss person residing in America. You can still claim me as your own though.

fa0019 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Whether someone not born in Britain is British or not rests solely on whether they are sucessful or not. Hillary reached the top therefore sorry Kiwis he is British.

You guys are worse than the Aussies with Phar Lapp and Crowded House! Get your own famous people! Next you'll be telling me Ernest Rutherford was British.

Who are you calling you guys?

I imagine the Irish are quite well versed in these debates anyhow... I imagine few Irishmen would claim the Duke of Wellington to be Irish for instance. Lots of famous anglo-irish people in history.

We don't claim him to be - but we do delight in reminding his ghost that he was so - despite his best efforts to pretend it never happened. Oh yes, m'Lord, you was born in a stable.