Why did Gatland choose Priestland?

It may have something to do with Priestland being better suited to help Wales beat Ireland. Ireland will by far be Wales' toughest opposition and last year Biggar had a bit of a disastrous 40 mins.

Priestland was exceptional and instrumental in Wales' wins over Ireland in 2011 RWC and 2012. Hook was 10 when Wales won in the 2011 6N.

Flat passing and bringing out the best in Roberts is also a big factor. That along with Priestland's familiarity and experience with JD2, Scott Williams and Roberts.

Excellent choice IMO and the Italy game is the perfect opportunity to build his confidence prior to Dublin.

There wasn't much between Biggar and Priestland.

Dan has been the better 10 on the Rabbo level, and both have played reasonable in the HC in generally poor teams.

I believe the only absolutely dire decision is not putting Biggar on the bench in case Priestland has an off game or gets injured

plus he's the one being mentioned for central contracting so it would be really wierd if Bigger was preferred to start.

it's one of the problems with central contracting only a few players. doesnt allow you to make adjustments for form or you get massively slated.

Has Biggar actually ever delivered for Wales?

I cannae remember Biggar having a MOTM for Wales but conversely he has never had a really poor game, Priestland/Hook have had both. Biggar was deffo one of the best performing Welsh players during the 2013 6Ns in my mind outperformed the chosen Lions 10s Sexton and Farrell during the series.

gatlandgun wrote:
Excellent choice IMO and the Italy game is the perfect opportunity to build his confidence prior to Dublin.

Gatlandgun are you gatlandsmum? It's not an excellent choice. It's a bizarre one. Biggar has done everything that could have been asked of him, with aplomb. His high-risk chip to North was the breakthrough in a very tight match in Paris and put us on the way to the 6N. In the AI Priestland was guilty of horrendous misjudgement which led directly to a soft South Africa try. Yet it's Biggar that was left out of the Lions and the trip to Oz the year before. What's up with that?

I'd have thought Italy was a good chance to give someone else a go at 9 as well. Mike can still do some good things individually, but his slowness of delivery and dire box-kicking neutralize a lot of our back-line threat.

flyhalffactory wrote:There wasn't much between Biggar and Priestland.

Dan has been the better 10 on the Rabbo level, and both have played reasonable in the HC in generally poor teams.

I believe the only absolutely dire decision is not putting Biggar on the bench in case Priestland has an off game or gets injured

Agree with this really. Priestland is more creative but Bigger is more stable. Bigger can probably feel a bit hard done by as he had a good 6ns. I'm thinking Gatland is a bit unsure who to play as flyhalf so is giving Priestland a chance against Italy to prove his worth. If it goes well he'll be picked for the rest of the competition if not Bigger will play against Ireland.

A mixture of Catholic guilt and obstinacy. Due to his Lions 'commitments', Gatland realised he had very little to do with Wales' 6N success last year. Biggar was a Howley project player and Priestland is Gatland's. Biggar is not even on the bench. Coincidence? Spectacles, testicles, wallet and watch and hope to die, I think not...

gatland is determined to be proved right about rp. even at the cost of losing games as he has previously done. yes biggar had a bad start last yr ,but it was his first 6ns start. and what a great turn around from him .that kick ahead in the French game, total control and demolition of England.
the guy is what wales need at the moment. tight control and playing in the right areas.
building a lead and then stepping up the tempo.
we came out firing yes, but did we pump it up? no. you have to have better tactics and more gears, didn't happen.

gavstar wrote:gatland is determined to be proved right about rp. even at the cost of losing games as he has previously done.  yes biggar had a bad start last yr ,but it was his first 6ns start. and what a great turn around from him .that kick ahead in the French game, total control and demolition of England.
the guy is what wales need at the moment. tight control and playing in the right areas.
building a lead and then stepping up the tempo.
we came out firing yes, but did we pump it up? no.  you have to have better tactics and more gears, didn't happen.

Totally agree, Preistland has been rubbish for Wales since the RWC even then he was iffy.

Why did Gatland choose Priestland?

Why not? Would you not choose your love child over some one else?

To be honest i have all ways thought that Biggar was a better player than Priestland so i myself cannot understand why Gatland still pick Priestland instead of Biggar.

totally agree ,biggar is much better. barry john in the press said it was rp's best game . that says it all !!
even rp's fans will tell you his kicking is a weakness. he has to do better WITH the ball, but I think he is going to be a target in future games. you don't rip the ball or flatten biggar the way you can with rp.

soon as what little structure we had fell away, mainly because of hot potato ball from rp, the whole team were left wanting. had to smile at alfie on scrum 5 " hooky is great, he takes the structure out of the game " yes alfie, that's why he's not the chosen 10, and cant hang on to the 10 shirt anywhere.

this team plays by numbers, like it or not, that is the way they are coached to play. as shanklin said on scrum 5 last year when he was asked about lack of creativity, he said we don't need creativity if everyone does their job, play to the plan. I was surprised nothing was made of the comments in the media. but probably ignored so the press could chuck in hooks name into the mix to sell papers . there you go.

buy a scrum cap rp, you'll need it for the next games !!!!!!!!!!!

majesticimperialman wrote:Why did Gatland choose Priestland?

Why not? Would you not choose your love child over some one else?

To be honest i have all ways thought that Biggar was a better player than Priestland so i myself cannot understand why Gatland still pick Priestland instead of Biggar.

Same reason he picked Davies over BOD? He won against Italy didn't he? His player choices validated. Move on, folks - nothing to see here. Gats is right.

I dont think it really matters who he selects v Ireland. Both will do a good job.

One word I certainly wouldn't use to describe the collective or individual performances for the Italy game is 'exceptional', nevermind Priestland's alone.

He didn't make any glaring errors (that I noticed) which is a start given his reputation of going to pieces. Some of his territorial kicking was okay, nothing to shout about. As per, he really did nothing to show that he can hold onto the 10 berth indefinitely. I think his grubber set up the first try but really I put that down more to the bounce of the ball than anything else.

we were lucky to win,secret, and priestland let the already loose hold he had on the structure slip away.

Knowsit17 wrote:One word I certainly wouldn't use to describe the collective or individual performances for the Italy game is 'exceptional', nevermind Priestland's alone.

He didn't make any glaring errors (that I noticed) which is a start given his reputation of going to pieces. Some of his territorial kicking was okay, nothing to shout about. As per, he really did nothing to show that he can hold onto the 10 berth indefinitely. I think his grubber set up the first try but really I put that down more to the bounce of the ball than anything else.

He made the first try. you can class it as a speculative kick or you can class it as been aware enough to target an inexperienced winger against what is regarded as a very good finisher in Cuthbert and put in a lovely weighted grubber. The second try come out of slow distribution by Phillips which was immediately quickened up by Priestland, this time a lovely weighted pass to Williams to create the midfield hole. His stats for the day was way above any Welsh player, 16 kicks, 29 passes, 8 runs, 44 metres made, 4 defenders clean beaten (twice as much as anyone else in the Welsh team), made twice as many offloads as the nearest welsh player, he made 4 clean tackles and didn't miss any..... only Roberts as a backs player came anywhere near him in statistical performance.

He also made a couple of breaks, of which one was a superb show and run, then a ridiculous dummy, shimmy and he almost scored a marvellous individual try to cap off a bloody good performance.

Compare that to Tipuric who didn't win a ball at the breakdown, or Halfpenny who was stung for pace and positional play for the first try and  and a heads down pass to give away the second......, or Jones who got mugged yet again in the scrum.

Nothing wrong with Biggar he has had a fantastic season in a really average Os side, and I would have picked him to start last Saturday, but its crazy to suggest RP had a poor game.

It was a lucky bounce. RP made too many errors, errors your No.10s are not expected to make. He's in the most important position on the pitch and was never the form choice going into this tournament. He needs to seriously up his game, and stop with the silly kicks all the time (not the first occassion where has he kicked the ball away when the clock is on red).

With ROG gone the game needed someone with a red face and Priestland has a redder head than Biggar (although its a close call).

ME-109 wrote:With ROG gone the game needed someone with a red face and Priestland has a redder head than Biggar (although its a close call).

That's what you're here for ME - technical detail.

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:With ROG gone the game needed someone with a red face and Priestland has a redder head than Biggar (although its a close call).

That's what you're here for ME - technical detail.  

I'm surprised he didnt recall Duncan Jones...with A Jones, Hibbard and D Jones the hair alone would probably be an advantage.

ME-109 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:With ROG gone the game needed someone with a red face and Priestland has a redder head than Biggar (although its a close call).

That's what you're here for ME - technical detail.  

I'm surprised he didnt recall Duncan Jones...with A Jones, Hibbard and D Jones the hair alone would probably be an advantage.

                   i would love to see Jones and Hibbard have hair cuts . make a lot of money for charity

The Saint wrote:It was a lucky bounce. RP made too many errors, errors your No.10s are not expected to make. He's in the most important position on the pitch and was never the form choice going into this tournament. He needs to seriously up his game, and stop with the silly kicks all the time (not the first occassion where has he kicked the ball away when the clock is on red).

The grubber is used for just for that reason! i.e. to speculatively punt a low trajectory putting pressure on the defender to pick it up before the attacker gets to him, and RP had the wherewithal to realise that the Italian winger was cold and Cuthbert is just the predatory animal to take advantage, the weight and pace of the kick was perfect to achieve the result. That's perfect awareness of the potential attacking opportunity, but you blindly see it just as a lucky bounce.

Give me examples of his errors!

I looked at the match in total yesterday and I cannae see where you get this tosh from Saint, at the most I can see one error.

His performance was well balanced 16 kicks, 29 passes 8 runs, he beat defenders on 4 occasions that twice as much as any other welsh player, his weakness (defence) was missing having made 4 tackles and missing none, that's better than any other back apart from Roberts, he made two clean breaks one which almost resulted in a try. He was key and the pivotal player in both tries, speeding up the Phillips laboured pass to create the midfield hole for Williams to create the roundhouse pass.

And you bang on about errors strewth..... where are they?

hope gats continued support for rp pays off. I can see structure going again, when the irish pressurise him, worse than that, hook comes on and it all goes t##s up.

biggar has proved he has a stronger game and a much stronger mentality............didn't fold after that first 40 last season. we need a tight ship. as another poster said we need dan paint by numbers, not rp paintball.

well covered analysis by fhf of rp, 16 kicks and 29 passes, average for a ten, that is not special for the position, only 8 runs !!!!!! thought he was there for his running, heads up rugby. the shimmy and missed try were showboating a la hook when he should have passed. the negatives were more influential than the positives in boosting the Italians, kept them in the game...........turned over, gave away try, gifted possession to Italy with awful decision making and poorly executed kicks

.did not control anything in the second half whatsoever. dire when we needed a 10 to pull it all back together. we won......any of the other 6ns would have trampled us in the 2nd half.

hope i'm wrong, I want a welsh win, but I can see him being targeted.

The Saint wrote:It was a lucky bounce. RP made too many errors, errors your No.10s are not expected to make. He's in the most important position on the pitch and was never the form choice going into this tournament. He needs to seriously up his game, and stop with the silly kicks all the time (not the first occassion where has he kicked the ball away when the clock is on red).

Same could be said for George North's try off Biggar's little grubber for the 5m line against France last year.

FHF - Rhys did make a few mistakes. He lost the ball on the ground that lead to the first Italian try for example. However I think that these mistakes have been picked up because people were looking for him to make mistakes, the same as I always pay extra attention when Cuthbert slips off a tackle, or fails to attempt it, than I would if say George, Roberts, or Scott did.

gavstar wrote:hope gats continued support for rp pays off. I can see structure going again, when the irish pressurise him, worse than that, hook  comes on and it all goes t##s up.

biggar has proved he has a stronger game and a much stronger mentality............didn't fold after that first 40 last season. we need a tight ship. as another poster said we need dan paint by numbers, not rp paintball.

well covered analysis by fhf of rp, 16 kicks and 29 passes, average for a ten, that is not special for the position, only 8 runs !!!!!! thought he was there for his running, heads up rugby. the shimmy and missed try were showboating a la hook when he should have passed. the negatives were more influential than the positives in boosting the Italians,  kept them in the game...........turned over, gave away try, gifted possession to Italy with awful decision making and poorly executed kicks

.did not control anything in the second half whatsoever. dire when we needed a 10 to pull it all back together. we won......any of the other 6ns would have trampled us in the 2nd half.

hope i'm wrong, I want a welsh win, but I can see him being targeted.  

I agree with you gavstar on the welsh flyhalf role normally but lets not kid ourselves RP is not a Hook, that run he made was clearly not an headless chicken routine and would have resulted in a try more often than not, I believe he would have passed if any other welsh player got near him. He creates constructive offensive movement and opportunities not risk taking runs.

By the way the stats are good for a NH ten and only Farrell came close to him last weekend.

As for the two tries well both can be laid at the lap of Halfpenny not RP, but he was instrumental in the two Welsh tries.

I watched the match last night but for the life of me I cannae see more errors than pivotal key moments in the match.

If it was me I would play Biggar to start against England and bench Priestland but Gatland will not he will stubbornly stick to last weeks half back pairing and bench which means Hook on the bench when DB or RP should be there.

One thing you will need is a specialist lock and Gatland will be mad if Jake Ball is not selected on the bench

FHF, good news Jake is one the bench, but only because Charteris is out injured and Coombs is starting. Although, I think if Jake makes an impact off the bench you could see him start the following game.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:FHF - Rhys did make a few mistakes.  He lost the ball on the ground that lead to the first Italian try for example.  However I think that these mistakes have been picked up because people were looking for him to make mistakes, the same as I always pay extra attention when Cuthbert slips off a tackle, or fails to attempt it, than I would if say George, Roberts, or Scott did.

I agree he made a few mistakes but rerun that stage of play a few seconds before and you will see RP sweeping the pass out to Williams who had men outside him but instead run back into the breakdown area, thus closing the gap and leaving RP with no option but to run at the centre and flanker.... yes it was mistake that the ball popped out but to say that was the catalyst for the Italian try is ludicrous, there was so many welsh players out of position and Halfpenny was so far up the field he couldn't even make it back to the defensive line and it was left to Faletau to chase the centre  

gavstar wrote:
well covered analysis by fhf of rp, 16 kicks and 29 passes, average for a ten, that is not special for the position, only 8 runs !!!!!! 

Only Farrell ran more than him (9) this weekend. ..from one more possession. You can say he kicked a fair bit but other teams had scrum halves kicking a lot, Phillips only recently learnt where his boot was during his medical studies.
Preistlands running appears to have been pretty effective in terms of metres gained, defenders beaten etc. You certainly cant slate it in this match anyway.
If there was a lack on running it was from the 3/4 who Roberts aside didnt do much, and his was largely directly into the nearest brick wall.

"Phillips only recently learnt where his boot was during his medical studies."

Dr Roberts surely?

Phillips was studying how to brew home-made beer. He's already a PHD in how to drink the commercial variety.

I have it on bad authority that he's a trained proctologist.

as I have said my choice would have been biggar, but I hope as the chosen one rp is not so poor that hook comes on. building to the world cup it should be rp and biggar on the bench or other way round.

as for the rp stats, well the performance of the team and how close Italy came to winning shows that the execution, quality on a number of passes, kicks,runs etc was not good enough.

farell obviously did better with similar stats.

Italy really didnt come that close to winning...

munkian wrote:Italy really didnt come that close to winning...

Looked close to me, you could hear the rumblings in the crowd.  

Over the sound of your own 'excitement' ? Blimey

gavstar wrote:as I have said my choice would have been biggar, but I hope as the chosen one rp is not so poor that hook comes on.  building to the world cup it should be rp and biggar on the bench or other way round.

as for the rp stats, well the performance of the team and how close Italy came to winning shows that the execution, quality on a  number of passes, kicks,runs etc was not good enough.  

farell obviously did better with similar stats.

Gav

In what way?

a) Whilst Priestlands stats show a good game, many of his team mates stats revealed they were still on "Lions duty" and "not at the races". Now I do believe that although you would like to blame that on the incumbent flyhalf  its very much not his fault, Tipuric, Lydiate both looked sluggish, Adam Jones was again poor in the set piece, Mike Phillips did little to speed up what was already poor ball coming from the rucks, mauls and  set-piece

b)
Priestland had one direct assist, and one indirect Farrell didn't
Priestland made 4 tackles and missed 0. Farrell made 4 and missed 1
Priestland cleanly beat defenders on 4 occasions Farrell did that on 2 occasions
Priestland ran 8 times and made 43 metres compared to Farrells 9 runs making 47 metres

Priestland conceded a turnover to start the process of the Ireland try, Farrell made a terrible pass that started the final French try..... both couldn't be blamed for the terrible defence of their respective team mates after their errors though.

Priestland and Wales won, Farrell and England lost

Now we can further clarify the England and Wales performance as a whole by comparing key players stats from both Wales/England

FB
Brown 1 try, 9 runs, 66 metres made
Halfpenny 0 Try, 6 runs, 33 metres made

Openside Flanker
Robshaw 13 runs, 33 metres made
Tipuric 5 runs, 15 metres made

8
Vunipola 17 runs, 68 metres made
Faletau 9 runs, 8 metres made

Then its becomes more apparent where the weak link in team performance was, both 10 having similar stats and both had good performances, but other key areas vastly different.

I think Gav you need to really watch the match and not go into it with a preconceived mindset, because you are seeing things which just aren't happening

Fly:

The stats tell me the French defence was poor and the Italian defence was good or England attack is better than Wales attack, stats can be meaningless.

glamorganalun wrote:Fly:

The stats tell me the French defence was poor and the Italian defence was good or England attack is better than Wales attack, stats can be meaningless.

if you are attempting to suggest that Priestland had a poor game then Alun if I am honest by your previous comments on him I am not surprised.

I certainly agree stats can be meaningless, one of the things in my career is data info, but I am quite happy to look at the weather conditions, the opponents style etc or we can just watch the games again and again. You or I will come to the same conclusive evidence and the stats generally support the general performance of the two teams.

If we look at England and Wales opponents then you would realise that Italy had a raft of first caps and very inexperienced players, whilst France coming of the back of a twelve match dire performance with some very good and on-form players.

That Welsh performance throughout the spine was generally poor, apart from his kicking 1/2p was average at best, the back row was imbalanced and ineffective, the front row apart from Hibbard was poor, James getting pinged constantly and Jones under the new laws been constantly found out, North made 4 tackles but missed 3..... lets not talk about Phillips.

But of course the only player that "should be dropped" is one of your most effective last weekend.

However that was my look on the game, if you feel different then of course feel free Alun

Priestland hasn't the consistency of Biggar or the talent of Hook. He is that rare breed of player that manages to be the worst of both worlds.

God only knows why Gatland keeps picking him.

Probably something to do with spread betting.

Casartelli wrote:Priestland hasn't the consistency of Biggar or the talent of Hook.  He is that rare breed of player that manages to be the worst of both worlds.

God only knows why Gatland keeps picking him.

Probably something to do with spread betting.

Of course that's why Hook is the expensive self publicised first choice 10 with his new employer...... Oh no that not quite right, is it?, he is yet again 3rd and soon to be 4th choice at Perpignan, must be the most expensive mistake the French club has made since a certain All Black also had an holiday there.

The only player whose naturally innate talent is for playing himself out of a position that every coach has given him and protected him from such inconsistency (Perpignan, Wales, The Lions, The Baas Baas and The Ospreys), and who they had to bring in a youngster to get them out of a hole, first Biggar for The Os and now Tommy Allan for Perpignan.

I agree he hasn't got the talent of Hook

Rog had an interesting piece of analysis on Priestland's game regarding his kicks being blocked down. He reckoned Rhys was being instructed to keep the ball in play and go for distance resulting in a lower trajectory and the ball remaining within block-down height for longer.

Can anyone shed some light on these tactics? I understand the advantage of keeping the ball in play if you can kill it in the corner and force the back three to play it with little angle to work with. But surely Biggar would be the better choice for this type of kicking game? Priestland sent quite a few kicks down Italian throats..

As I keep saying Hook has had over 70 chances to try and establish himself as the next great No10 some think he is and he hasn't managed to and before you all jump on his bandwagon its not just Gatland that thinks this.

As fly has pointed out he's not even 1st choice for Perpignan, I admit he has value to the squad in a jack of all master of none way which is why he's on the bench ahead of Biggar.

Priestlands kicking is the poorest part of his game but not the only part of his game, we are all entitled to our opinions and I thought he had a good game last week apart form his kicking and there in lies the result maybe, because most only had an ok game.

I assume Biggar just isn't on Gatland's favouritism radar, for whatever reason he isn't on it - which I'm sure is between Gatland, his theories on the game and Biggar's inability to fit in with those theories, for whatever reason.

Priestland suits Gatlands plans better in that he plays the game flatter and allows Roberts to hit the gainline at pace.

Every coach of every generation every team etc will always have their faves for want of better word and us fans will always agree/disagree with those faves but Biggar is in the squad so and if need be will be used its just he's not considered 1st choice by Gatland. Same can be said for James, Owens, Tipuric etc etc

I wonder if he would have picked Bigger if we had had France up first?

Hook is just a waste of bench space.

slartibartfast wrote:
I wonder if he would have picked Bigger if we had had France up first?

Hook is just a waste of bench space.

With Hook in the squad I don't think we will see Biggar and Priestland in the same 23, which ever starts then he will use Hook on the bench as mr utility.

Getting your scapegoats ready for slaughter boys???



Most of you have not seen a single club game Hook has played in the last two years, and you right him off.

Priestland has played some great rugby, last week and at the Scarlets this year. He creates far more from the gain line than Biggar, he is braver than Biggar, he reads the game better. He made two great tries last week.

He brought Roberts into the game he pressured opposition back three with our big wings attacking them.

We won...!

Biggar hasn't been I great form this last few months. Ospreys backline look out of ideas and it's not all due to who is or isn't available.

I don't think there is much difference made by either player being selected, for me Priestland edges it.

What annoys me is lambasting players for very little reason.

I do think Biggars style would have suited this game better especially given the forecast but Gats thinks Priestland offers more and its his decision.

As for Hook I have made my feelings on him clear over past few years and despite what form he is or isn't showing at Perp he's still not their 1st choice no10.