Why does Gatland feel the need to publicise this?

Warren Gatland asks for scrum "clarification"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/2603990

I guess he wants to attempt to apply pressure on referees by leaking this sort of stuff to the media.

But it smacks of i) sour grapes (insofar as trying to create an excuse for mediocre scrummaging), and ii) yet more Gatland media/spin nonsense.

It really gets on my nerves when ANY coaches do this. They should switch to football if thats how they want to conduct their business.

The link does not work.

There were some odd calls for both sides in the Wales v Italy match.

Yeah he should be more like Rowntree right?   

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/26039903

Just usual stuff.  No real issue

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Yeah he should be more like Rowntree right?   

  

I seem to remember Rowntree and England were told to button it and these things should be kept private.

He hasn't done anything wrong, same as Rowntree didn't when he asked for clarification. Be interesting to see if all the Welsh voices that were so quick to have a go at Rowntree will direct their righteous anger towards Gatland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26039903

this one works

munkian wrote:There were some odd calls for both sides in the Wales v Italy match.

i totally agree with that.

but these discussions with referees should be done behind closed doors.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I seem to remember Rowntree and England were told to button it and these things should be kept private.

with which i agree 100%

the worst exemplars of the art are of course Australia, who also like to wheel out Bob Dwyer to make the cheating accusations.

Agree, it's uncouth. This is why I'm not a fan of Gatland. Aussies like to have a tongue in their cheek though to their credit. Still it's annoying.

yes, in Aus the media are complicit. it's all part of the psychological war against the touring side in whatever sport it is.

Yeah, the recent ashes was a classic example of that. Think it was Haden, boy he was like a rabid dog.

I have just read the link, and boy people on here are worst than Alistair Campbell on times with their spin. Gatland has not in anyway influenced what will happen in the scrums on Saturday, all he was asking was for some clarity on the decisions against Paul James in the scrum and the officiating during the line outs, is this just another excuse to YET ANOTHER dig at Warren Gatland, why don't we keep this thread going and talk about how chopsy he is, and what about BOD, also we could talk about Gatland ball, this is getting very tiresome now.

Main difference is, we didn't lose. Plus Gatland has said our scrum wasn't great against Italy.

There plenty of people basically saying Wales beat England due to wrong penalty decisions at scrum time.

I just think he should stick to important things like BOD on the Lions tour or what he has in his lunch box.

quinsforever wrote:

munkian wrote:There were some odd calls for both sides in the Wales v Italy match.

i totally agree with that.

but these discussions with referees should be done behind closed doors.

Why? The referees don't own the game. Neither does Gatland. I pay my money to watch the games, and I want to know what's going on, and why my team is being penalised. Any discussions regarding the laws or their interpretation are public forum if you ask me. Which I'll freely admit you didn't.
You were probably one of the ones jumping up and down when Gatland decided he DIDN'T want to talk to the ref last 6N.

i didnt like it when rowntree said things after the wales game, i dont like it when anyone does.

it's rude to the referees, and one thing that i hope will always differentiate rugby from football is the absolute respect on the pitch for the referee. if coaches start questioning things via the media, rather than simply following the existing procedures, then how long before post-match interviews deteriorate to referee blame games, and all the players start appealing for decisions.

the ireland game was bad enough in that respect. joubert was far too soft on all the chat.

this is how referees should deal with chat...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXoBNFOxlQM

He didn't 'blame' them for anything, he admitted the Welsh pack could've done better, he wanted clarification on a few things which looked dodgy.

did you actually read what i wrote?

Maybe he should talk to Refs before games!   

Ode to the Irish Ref.... a traditional shanty by Warren Gatland.

Just another ham fisted attempt by Gatland to influence the referee in his favour.

He's obviously worried about the Welsh scrum, yet elsewhere he says he's not frightened of any team - the journos must love this hypocrisy.

I remember recently a lot of people on here criticising Gatland for choosing not to meet to talk with the referee prior to the game (Alain Rolland), as is customary. A mini media sh*t storm surrounded that non story which rabid 606v2-ers jumped on and spat their venom all over my screen. Now he's being criticised for choosing to talk to a ref.

I believe it's is part of the service provided by the IRB, i.e. being available to talk with coaches to discuss interpretations. In fact, a number of nations have refs in to training to provide live commentary on their play and how they would interpret various facets of their game. And how do I know this? Because the coaches (e.g. Lancaster) went public about it. No difference.

If anyone can name one half decent Irish ref I'll buy him a bag of Tayto crisps (standard size)

I thought the Irish ref was very decent to the Welsh team, letting them win on the scoreboard.......   

I wonder whether Gatland thought about questioning the Breakdowns where his team got a fair few calls going their way?

Why does Gatland feel the need to publicise this?

Short answer : He is a naughty naughty boy.

He didn't do much complaining when the Welsh front row extracted the urine out of Craig Joubert for 80 minutes when Scotland played Wales last.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote: Why does Gatland feel the need to publicise this?

Short answer : He is a naughty naughty boy.

He didn't do much complaining when the Welsh front row extracted the urine out of Craig Joubert for 80 minutes when Scotland played Wales last.

also    @ swear filter.

If I were Rowntree I would be seeking clarification of why my replacement loose head wasn't penalised more in case I could get away with the same cheating next time too.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote: Why does Gatland feel the need to publicise this?

Short answer : He is a naughty naughty boy.

He didn't do much complaining when the Welsh front row extracted the urine out of Craig Joubert for 80 minutes when Scotland played Wales last.

Yes, the mighty mighty 'Scottish' front row would've cause all sorts of problems otherwise....

Bravely Spoken.

I distinctly remember the Ospreys front row getting mullered by Grant and Lowe when the 2 teams met at Scotstoun, about 3 weeks after this match with nearly identical frontrows, minus Euan Murray for Glasgow and minus Gethin Jenkins for Ospreys. Totally different result when the same players met in the six nations.

Joubert reffed the Scrum in the six nations with about as much effectiveness as Stevie Wonder might have managed.

1st Scrum - Grant penalised for early engage - turnover Wales.
2nd Scrum - Grant penalised for early engage - penalty Wales.
3rd Scrum - Grant penalised for early engage - free kick Wales.

by early engage you must understand that this early engage could be measured in hundreds of seconds. By evidence the scrums engaged at precisely the same time. Before this match the Scotland frontrow had dealt with Ireland's frontrow, mullered Italy's and been competative with Englands. Wales's frontrow isn't that much better mate.

4th Scrum - Grant and the rest of the frontrow so petrified of being penalised again back off and engage much slower only for the scrum to collapse and Scotland to be penalised for "not taking the hit".

If that isn't poor Scrum reffing   munkian please give me a better example. Mr Gatland clearly didn't complain about the reffing this time around..... I wonder why? Best guess is he wasn't coaching Wales at the time? Seems sensible but the point is obvious. The Welsh coaching team only seem to criticize the ref when things don't go their way. All the while they get away with their stretching of the laws they seem to keep quiet.

The Welsh want what's best for them as regards reffing decisions and want to stay quiet about their infringements ?????!!!!!!!!!!!!

God, the cheek of them lads. The downright arrogance of it. You'd never catch other teams trying that on.

Perhaps if the welsh players discipline was better they'd have had their first choice locks available and the scrum would've performed better

SecretFly wrote:The Welsh want what's best for them as regards reffing decisions and want to stay quiet about their infringements ?????!!!!!!!!!!!!

God, the cheek of them lads.  The downright arrogance of it.  You'd never catch other teams trying that on.

noone said other teams don't do it. However most coaches don't do it in public.

To coin a Scottish phrase :

"Dinnae greet Warren."

Urban Dictionary wrote:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=greeting

greeting
common scottish slang for crying
"Aye, you were fair bawling and greeting like a wee bairn"

"Aww, I wiz almost greetin when Lassie died."

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I distinctly remember the Ospreys front row getting mullered by Grant and Lowe when the 2 teams met at Scotstoun, about 3 weeks after this match with nearly identical frontrows, minus Euan Murray for Glasgow and minus Gethin Jenkins for Ospreys. Totally different result when the same players met in the six nations.

I remember that match, Adam Jones was awful, and the pens were against him every time, however when the ref went to the cards it was him and Grant that got 10 mins rest.

SecretFly wrote:The Welsh want what's best for them as regards reffing decisions and want to stay quiet about their infringements ?????!!!!!!!!!!!!

God, the cheek of them lads.  The downright arrogance of it.  You'd never catch other teams trying that on.

This. Theres some people on some seriously high horses on here.

Focussing on the incident in question, rather than dragging up every little slight ever, can people who actually watched the Wales v Italy game actually explain why the scrums were deemed to be penalized ?

They looked weird from my seat, they were commented on by the BBC and several other sports pages.

Scottish moaning. Whatever next?

I would rather lose to Italy than Scotland, they are almost impossible to cheer on as a neutral as their attacking play is so dire.

munkian wrote:can people who actually watched the Wales v Italy game actually explain why the scrums were deemed to be penalized ?

I think the Ref was correct most of the time, Paul James does give away a lot of penalty's.

IMO the Ref should never be questioned, they are always right, end of.   

Griff wrote:Scottish moaning.  Whatever next?

One thing about Gatland, considering how many times his team has been given the doubt about decisions he should just keep his mouth shut.

Phillips try against Ireland with the wrong ball a few seasons ago?

You get the good with the bad. It all evens out eventually. He should just quit greetin' and get on with it. You still won the match.

So Paul James isn't first choice as part of a very strong Bath pack ? You have complete opposite views to most Bath fans I know then.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Griff wrote:Scottish moaning.  Whatever next?

One thing about Gatland, considering how many times his team has been given the doubt about decisions he should just keep his mouth shut.

Phillips try against Ireland with the wrong ball a few seasons ago?

You get the good with the bad. It all evens out eventually. He should just quit greetin' and get on with it. You still won the match.

So was Gatland 'greetin' or answering questions by the Press ? And yes, we won, but rather leave it to chance surely its good to know where we did well and where we did badly and why our player was penalized when Castro pulled down the scrum ?

He is a very good prop but he does give penalty's away.

Radge, EVERY coach meets with the refs to discuss interpretations. They do it away from the game and in the refs office before the game. Your precious Scottish coaches do it too. The only difference here is that it's gone public, and that's only because Gatland has been interviewed and asked the question. He didn't start a press conference to announce this. He was asked a question. You don't hear the Scottish coaches saying this in public as no f*cker wants to interview them.

Scrumpy wrote:He is a very good prop but he does give penalty's away.

So, surely if hes a very good prop the coaches need to know why he is being penalized when it looks to them (and plenty of others) that his opposite player is in the wrong ?

Priceless:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/scottish/9408228.stm

They keep coming:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/rugby/six-nations-scotland-coach-andy-1115898

munkian wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Griff wrote:Scottish moaning.  Whatever next?

One thing about Gatland, considering how many times his team has been given the doubt about decisions he should just keep his mouth shut.

Phillips try against Ireland with the wrong ball a few seasons ago?

You get the good with the bad. It all evens out eventually. He should just quit greetin' and get on with it. You still won the match.

So was Gatland 'greetin' or answering questions by the Press ? And yes, we won, but rather leave it to chance surely its good to know where we did well and where we did badly and why our player was penalized when Castro pulled down the scrum ?

absolutely agree.

But that sort of thing can be clarified with the Ref in private and that sort of question should be evaded as a courtesy for the Ref IMO. Some decisions went against Wales, some Decisions went against Italy, when not neccesarily both or either parties were to blame. That's the nature of scrummaging. Gatland has a responsibility to get answers to this sort of thing in a correct and professional way.

Whinging at a press conference doesn't quallify.

Unless you are Nigel Owens pretty much all Ref's are prone to mistakes. I think it's good to set a marker and coaches shouldn't publically criticise refs. Just my opinion though.