Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/269695.stm

And Hoddle's ex girlfriend was this faith healer's daughter...isn't love sweet?

[mystiroakey]

Why do people think Rooney is going to stay at united but RVP wont?

[Guest]

Moyes    

Top 4 gone & Rooney gone.

2013/14 - Shambolic season & a write-off.

I would be amazed if United trusted Moyes with a shed-load of cash to rebuild the club. He's bought Fellaini & a luxury player that doesn't address the issues that needed addressing. Careless management.

Mysti - RVP has a longer contract, on big money & he's got injury record. Too high risk now.

[mystiroakey]

Rooney and Mata isn't going to work.

Yes you could say in an ideal set up - rotating these two players at the no 10 is ideal..

But the problem is these two players are so good they need to be loved and they need to be the no.1

you need a slightly lesser player to be on the subs and to play slightly less.

The best way to get the best out of mata is to sell rooney. They can recoup the money.

They may only get 28 m for rooney in the summer as he has 1 year left, they could get 20m for RVP as well. they should also try and cut the loses on Fellani- maybe they can get 15 m for him.

They then need a high class out and out Striker and a High class CM.

United also need a defensive general.

Smalling and jones could end up being a terry/rio type deal in the future- but at the moment they need to learn of a better.. They need a slightly younger Vidic in there.

They also need to sort out the wings.

Zaha may come back and come good, Junazi is a brilliant player and the only one shining light for united.. But they need to get rid of youngs and valencia, 

They need another player on the level of ox or someone, maybe another young talent like dyer at swansea, redmond etc.

They also need a younger CM back up. Morrison they had- well he would have been ideal..

Ok that's my two plus 10 cents lol

[Ent]

Mysti really the solution is to sell Rooney and rvp, and get the likes of Redmond and morrison?

What are you on?

[mystiroakey]

no i said get a high class CM, a high class striker and a high class defender for Rooney, RVP and Fellani. and swap out players like Valencia and young for young potential like redmond and morrison..

Wasnt my post clear?

[Mad for Chelsea]

I've seen people on here saying that it's not Moyes's fault, and "not sure what more he could do" against Fulham. I just don't buy that, for me their entire gameplan seemed to be to get the ball to Young, Evra, Mata or Rafael on the flanks, cross the ball and hope someone in a red shirt gets on the end of it. That's a waste of Mata's ability (he's not a particularly good crosser of the ball anyway). In fact, Janujaz made a difference when he came on simply because his delivery was better than the others. United didn't really change the way they were playing at all.

For me, that lies with the manager, if your tactics aren't working (and it must have been a tactic, since they delivered 80-odd crosses, can't just be the players), you have to have the ability to change them.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I find it funny that Mata was wasted by Chelsea but cant work in a system with Rooney. Arguably that means he cant work in a system with Oscar and Hazard.

Mata has an assist in each of his 3 appearances for United doesnt he? In the early days he's fitting in well. Players of that ilk, from Oscar to Hazard, Cazorla to Ramsey (on this years form) know how to play with more than just one man behind a striker or strikeforce.

I'd go with Rooney staying just on reports that seem to suggest its more likely than not currently.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Sad day to see the sale of the Boleyn Ground confirmed. Knew it was coming but still sad to have it confirmed. Love that place. Was the first ground I went to that felt like a football "home" for me, used to love just being around the place as a kid, overwhelmed me.

Ravel looks set to join QPR on loan. Rumours that his behaviour has become "Man United days" bad. The story (true or not) from the club is that he might have a hernia and needs either surgery or to get fit. Could be a short term deal, but I don't hold out great hope of seeing Ravel in a West Ham shirt next year. I hope he one day focuses that talent, fantastic footballer - misguided young man.

[mystiroakey]

Yes Dolph mata has been ok. Well he was first game.. but what is it doing to Rooney?

Unless Rooney plays as a striker then how does it work.. Rooney plays deep 90% of the time.

Ok getting a decent box to box midfielder would make a mata and Rooney partnership much more effective..

But having RVP, Rooney and mata.. Erm not sure

[Ent]

no i said get a high class CM, a high class striker and a high class defender for Rooney, RVP and Fellani. and swap out players like Valencia and young for young potential like redmond and morrison..

Wasnt my post clear?

It's like you are on crack.

Sell Rooney and rvp because mata needs to be number one, then spend all the money on a striker (who presumably will want to be no 1). Then. What use welbeck and Hernandez regularly?

Buy a high class cm, we've been trying for years- they are really going to be queueing up to join if we sell our 2 best players.

Take a 50% loss on fellani, ok.

Buy a top class centre half, again easier said than done- we have 3 decent young centre halfs and poor fullbacks.

This isn't football manager.

[mystiroakey]

Jeas after reading that I need some  crack Ent.

Remember that united is the place everyone wants to play at.

But look let's think about this logically.

If you pushed Everton for Barkley they would snap.

You could swap Rooney to many clubs for a high quality out to out striker.

You could also do that with RVP for a defender.

It's possible.. Very very possible..

[mystiroakey]

Oh yes by the way you are right you also need new wing backs. Why the heck didn't you go for shaw????

[Ent]

It isn't.

If one deal goes sour you are left in a worse situation squad wise than this year.

Barclay plays a very advanced role, we need proper centre midfielders.

Swap deals aren't very common and are top clubs really going to swap us an equivalent top player? Of course they won't, they'll just bid for them if we make it known we are looking to transfer him.

[Ent]

Huge money for a kid.

Plus apparently he supports and wants to join Chelsea.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Redmond isn't ready for a club like Utd. Last thing he needs is to go and sit on the bench for season upon season.

[Hammersmith harrier]

It's complete lunacy to get rid of two of our best players in order to then rebuild, the team has to built around the quality we currently have not swapping it out for lesser players. If we sold Rooney and RVP the replacements would not be anywhere near as good.

Now that we have Mata, getting Barkley in makes no sense, we already have Rooney, Kagawa and Januzaj, we don't need a 5th.

[Ent]

Anyway the preparation for next season should be starting now.

Vidic is leaving and is hardly in the world beating form of previous years. Leave him out.

Play jones and one of Evans/smalling and get your centre back pairing for next season 10 games together. Let them develop and stop all this messing about changing the defense every week and everyone's positions.

[mystiroakey]

Ok so what you are saying is that. Man U should work on the strengths they have and buy around them..

How do you get the best out of this heavily front loaded team?

[mystiroakey]

Barkley is nothing like mata hammersmith. He is a solid cm. Mata is a number ten..

He is exactly the player you need., what do you suggest that mata plays deeper???

No you need a cm. You have a good DM in carrick.. You need a box to box like Barkley

[Hammersmith harrier]

Ok so what you are saying is that. Man U should work on the strengths they have and buy around them..

How do you get the best out of this heavily front loaded team?

That makes perfect sense, you don't revamp the whole team, you look at what needs to better and buy accordingly, we might as well get rid of Carrick, De Gea, Jones and Januzaj while we're at it.

You sure as hell don't get the best out of it by selling the world class part of the team, how does that make any sense to you?

[Ent]

When does Barclay play box to box?

[mystiroakey]

Because Rooney doesn't want to stay... You an d others seem to think that mata is a cm and Rooney is a striker.


It's just not true . They are at there best in the same space. They are no.10 footballers

[mystiroakey]

When does Barclay play box to box?

Every game

[Hammersmith harrier]

Barkley is nothing like mata hammersmith. He is a solid cm. Mata is a number ten..

He is exactly the player you need., what do you suggest that mata plays deeper???

No you need a cm. You have a good DM in carrick.. You need a box to box like Barkley

He's an attacking midfielder occupying the number ten position, he is not a natural central midfielder.

[Guest]

Barkley rarely plays box to box. That job is done by McCarthy with Barry sitting. Barkley is the more expressive offensive option in behind Lukaku when they are fit. Miralles one side, Pienaar the other.

[Ent]

I think you need to watch Everton a bit more mysti.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I refuse to agree with people who think

----------------RVP
Januzaj------Rooney------Mata

doesnt work. Considering all three of those will drift, its beautiful.

Get someone more energetic and mobile next to Carrick who also has class and then you're laughing.

[mystiroakey]

Box to box is a funny definition and it possibly brings up more arguments that its worth.

However lets compare the two players.

Mata and Barkley.

Who plays deeper?

who would have more success moving the ball from defence/Carrick up to the likes of rooney(as a striker) and RVP.

Well the fact is Man U cant do that. v Fulham they smashed 80 crosses from the wings- because they had no middle progression.

There is a massive gap in the united line up.. 

its like a bank of defenders and then a bank of attackers tripping over them selves- with the odd headless chicken winger running into dead channels.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I refuse to agree with people who think

----------------RVP
Januzaj------Rooney------Mata

doesnt work. Considering all three of those will drift, its beautiful.

Get someone more energetic and mobile next to Carrick who also has class and then you're laughing.

The perfect player for Utd would be Vidal. But there's no chance he'd leave Juve.

And I agree there's no reason that front four shouldn't work over time

[Hammersmith harrier]

Neither of them plays deep, if you think Barkley is the answer to our midfield problems then i'll have what you're smoking. We need a player like Kroos who can play deep and dictate the play from the, the perfect foil to Carrick.

[mystiroakey]

Neither of them plays deep, if you think Barkley is the answer to our midfield problems then i'll have what you're smoking. We need a player like Kroos who can play deep and dictate the play from the, the perfect foil to Carrick.

If you  think mata and barkley are similar players then lets swap smoke!

Yours is better

[mystiroakey]

and buy the way.. you have fellani...

If you  trust Moyes- why dont you trust that signing?

[Ent]

We also need the players who are currently there to man up.

Carrick dangled an ankle at a freekick last week and was very weak in a 50/50 yesterday and we conceded 2 goals.

[mystiroakey]

Carrick is isolated though..

he needs someone to help him out..

[Hammersmith harrier]

Neither of them plays deep, if you think Barkley is the answer to our midfield problems then i'll have what you're smoking. We need a player like Kroos who can play deep and dictate the play from the, the perfect foil to Carrick.

If you  think mata and barkley are similar players then lets swap smoke!

Yours is better

They occupy exactly the same space, both play just behind a front man, neither is a central midfielder.

[CFCNick]

They aren't the same type of player but position wise they are. United need a ball winner. Not a ball mover.

[Ent]

and buy the way.. you have fellani...

If you  trust Moyes- why dont you trust that signing?

If that's directed at me I don't trust either and didn't want either. Which I said before both joined.

[mystiroakey]

I know you lot dont like jones in the midfield.

But carrick and jones in midfield with vidic in the centre v Arsernal was the best you have played so far this season

[mystiroakey]

and buy the way.. you have fellani...

If you  trust Moyes- why dont you trust that signing?

If that's directed at me I don't trust either and didn't want either. Which I said before both joined.

No it wasnt directed at you ent... partially Hammersmith- but mainly at the 0.000001% of man U fans that think moyes needs time

[mystiroakey]

They aren't the same type of player but position wise they are. United need a ball winner. Not a ball mover.

i dont know if they do - to me they need a ball mover deeper like scholes etc.

there is a gap in the middle - mata is 100% attacking . Barkley could provide a good link, and unlike Mata does work back

[GSC]

Carrick is pretty average.

Why would Barkley go United anyway. Moyes never played him at Everton

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Indeed it was, but I think it got exposed against Chelsea. Jones is fine, but he gives an indication of what is needed without having the quality. Olly is right, Vidal is so perfect and that has been obvious for longer than his time at Juve.

Must be tempting to add two in the middle, play Mata and Rooney behind a striker so both can drift and have the real width provided by Rafael and a new left back.

The problem with United yesterday wasnt their attack. The problem is their team is so disjointed in the middle and the defence that they can be porous. Fulham shouldnt have scored one, let alone two, and definitely not once it was 2-1 and stoppage time. Professionalism is key, Moyes will have been livid with how naive they were in letting that equaliser in.

[Hammersmith harrier]

The fans who want Moyes sacked are very much in the minority Mysti, we have a different culture to most teams, he will be given time.

[Stella]

Moyes will get time, whether Utd fans like it or not. I'm guessing a couple of years, give or take a few weeks. Utd went long term, so will not, imo, sack him so soon.

[Ent]

They aren't the same type of player but position wise they are. United need a ball winner. Not a ball mover.

It's the whole teams job to win the ball back.

As for carrick, he had fletcher along side him yesterday and no one picked up sidwell or put any pressure on holtby.

And being isolated doesn't make you lose out on 50/50s.

I like carrick, just pointing out most of the squad is underperforming. You could only make an argument for Rooney being better than last season. Welbeck has scored much more but he's played up front more.

Who is to blame for that I don't know, but whilst the squad is inadequate in some areas they are seriously under performing this year. These are good players;

Won the league by 11 points, beat arsenal home and away, Liverpool home and away, city away, Chelsea away. Went toe to toe with mourinhos Madrid and were equal to them (largely).

Something has gone seriously wrong.

[GSC]

Heard we and QPR were interested in Hoolahan so can't hurt if they're signing Morrison. He looked poor against us tbh, plenty of talent but awful work ethic

[mystiroakey]

They aren't the same type of player but position wise they are. United need a ball winner. Not a ball mover.

It's the whole teams job to win the ball back.

As for carrick, he had fletcher along side him yesterday and no one picked up sidwell or put any pressure on holtby.

And being isolated doesn't make you lose out on 50/50s.

I like carrick, just pointing out most of the squad is underperforming. You could only make an argument for Rooney being better than last season. Welbeck has scored much more but he's played up front more.

Who is to blame for that I don't know, but whilst the squad is inadequate in some areas they are seriously under performing this year. These are good players;

Won the league by 11 points, beat arsenal home and away, Liverpool home and away, city away, Chelsea away. Went toe to toe with mourinhos Madrid and were equal to them (largely).

Something has gone seriously wrong.

look I agree- united need to add players and work out where there best places are and we can argue that all day long. But yes the key problem is there is something rotten.

Look at every team in the bottom half. We are fighting for everything almost every game.. I agree - your players are underperforming. and I am never one to blame the players for that- only the manager

[mystiroakey]

The fans who want Moyes sacked are very much in the minority Mysti, we have a different culture to most teams, he will be given time.

Hammersmith - go to the largest Man u forum..

Its a very busy place.

read a few pages.

http://community.manutd.com/forums/

[Ent]

The fans who want Moyes sacked are very much in the minority Mysti, we have a different culture to most teams, he will be given time.

The thing is they aren't hammer smith, I lived in Salford and worked in Manchester last season and when he was appointed and nobody really wanted him.

At the start of the season everyone thought 4th would be the worst we could do and would be a poor season.

Now look at us. Anyone I speak to would quite like moyes to leave- problem is the ship has sailed, nobody decent available.

I said in the summer that this was the biggest window ever and would shape European football for 5 years.

United, bayern, Chelsea, city, Madrid and barca all got new managers. These are probably all the biggest clubs in Europe. A load of big and high profile transfers occurred. We ended up with moyes and fellani, embarassing.

[Ent]

Just read that vidic has signed for inter for £2.9 million a year. That's about 60k a week by my counting.

I presume that is wrong, surely we would have kept him on for his experience and off pitch leadership at that wage?

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